Underrail Forum
Underrail => General => Topic started by: destroyor on November 25, 2017, 11:25:21 pm
-
I thought we can have a little fun by talking about your personal opinion on the current ranking of all classes as of version 1.0.2.4. For my own ranking, details on specific build can be found at http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=843557165 , character build section. I'm going to list my personal ranking for all classes in order - so yes, I do consider DEX based psi monk > pure psi (tranquility).
Top Tier
- Pure Psi - Stealth psychosis psi, receive 89% less damage from all sources for three turns if you take Stoicism + Morphine Shot + Aegis, combine this with Survival Instinct and you get an unstoppable critical psi killing machine. I truly believe this build is the NUMBER ONE build in Underrail right now.
- DEX based leather combat gloves psi monk - unlike a traditional psi monk, this build skip Locus of Control + force emission, WIL set at 3, invest just enough skill points to get electrokinetic imprint and cryostasis. Pneumatic strike is a must. Insane damage output + high number of attacks + premeditation CC psi skills = #2 build on my list.
- Pure Psi - stealth tranquility build
- DEX based leather combat gloves brawler - same as the psi monk above, minus the CC.
- Psi (Metathermics) Sniper - premeditation Thermodynamic Destabilization turns a single target into a bomb with true AOE. Fights are usually over in one turn.
- Max DEX pure SMG - a boring but effective killing machine, burst at point blank range, hit and run to the next target, rinse and repeat ad nauseam.
Good Tier
- SMG/Sniper hybrid - it's actually very easy to fit a SMG burst within 20AP (adrenaline shot) so combine with commando you can easily get 2 sniper shot + 2 SMG burst per turn.
- Mobile Assault/Sniper hybrid (high AGI, low CON)
- Pure Sniper - rare to see, I guess you will be using your adrenaline shot for grenade/medicine/taser?
- Sniper/pistol hybrid - never played one, I would guess pistol is a poor fit due to the need to pump DEX. On the other hand this is still a sniper build so it shouldn't suck.
- Pure Crossbow - unlike sniper xbower is very starve for skill points and feats so Psi (Metathermics) xbower is actually weaker than pure xbow. You have traps, tons of option in the form of special bolts but Snipers are still stronger due to W2C ammo.
- Heavy armored Assault/Sniper hybrid (high CON, low AGI)
- STR+CON based Sledgehammer - don't know why but I always get a kick when I chase down an enemy and just sledge them into the ground in one hit. Good night!
- Pure Assault - sort of rare to see as Aimed shot is available at level 1 and Assault users usually have a natural ability (STR) to use a sniper rifle.
Average Tier
- STR based metal combat gloves psi monk - very similar to DEX based leather glove psi monk but STR based.
- Traditional Psi monk (STR+WIL based, get locus of control, focus on force emission and telekinetic proxy) - great damage on paper, quickly run out of psi points in actual battle. Damage are seriously undermined by enemies' mechanical resist/threshold.
- STR based metal combat gloves brawler
- Assassin (DEX knifer)
Poor Tier
- Firearm based pistol - I think a comment is warranted on the .44 Hammerer pistol. The spread of this weapon is VERY large; it has a very low minimal damage and a decent max damage. If you are unlucky and rolled min damage on your special attacks (execute/kneecap shot/aimed shot) the damage would be very disappointing. I know people in the forum like to calculate average damage of a weapon but in practice the effect of a low minimal damage is very real and painful.
- Energy based pistol - I just couldn't get this to work as there's just not enough ability points to make this good.
- Throwing (explosive+traps hybrid) - Damage output is actually not that bad if you focus on critical grenade. Problem here is 1) hard to start 2) tedious (hunt for super steel plates, (god damn!) Hexogen(!) and Napalm C(!)) and costly to setup gear and craft enough (MK V) explosives. 3) Throwing knives are useless against inorganic targets w/ high mech resist. Quick tinkering is a must.
- Chem pistol - right now this is a very fancy way to suck. You have acid, ice and fire and the best of them, fire, is decent but a lot of enemies are immune to burning.
-
First time i finished UR i used a combination of 3 bottommost options. Hard in the beginning, somewhat easy near the end. Normal difficulty. And it got nerfed :(
My second playthrough was with topmost option from your list. It's interesting that a build with Psychosis, a feat that takes more than it gives, made it to the very top.
-
For overall offense effectiveness, your ranking seems reasonable. At this point I have a bag of tricks that make most chars fairly easy, so fine distinctions are difficult for me. (That said, I'm waiting for the upcoming buffs to do a chem and/or energy pistols character.)
If you're going for a no-reloads/minimal-reloads playthrough, that might be a different ranking. I've played iron man a few times now (never gotten close to winning) and some priorities change.
Another sorting might be on what builds were the most fun to play. I agree that crossbows are not the strongest, but damn they're fun. Another notably fun build was my low-CON knife assassin with Ripper and Recklessness.
-
I actually made a tank pure psi build using the same feats and play style, and it's been really devastating so far. Telekinetic punch, with force user and proxy hits upwards to 800 damage right now when it crits. What's your stat distribution for the metathermics sniper though?
-
Nice list, but anything will work if you reload from time to time.
Personally I am trying to finish Underrail with a hardcore approach:
I die, I start over. So far I have made it to core city and that is it.
So, a list of no-reload Ironman builds (probably a short list) would be useful.
-
Sniper/pistol hybrid - never played one, I would guess pistol is a poor fit due to the need to pump DEX. On the other hand this is still a sniper build so it shouldn't suck.
Better than you might think.
You only need 7 DEX for Gunslinger, that's completly enough. 4 attribute points sounds like a pretty big investment, but it's not like you don't get other benefits out of it- 4 bonus initiative and bonus skill points if you decide to invest in lockpicking/pickpocketing/throwing/traps. I usually take lockpicking, throwing and traps so it saves me a ton of skill points, especially considering those skills are of "needs to be high enough" kind rather than "needs to be maxed every level".
Speaking of initiative, that's the biggest selling point for me. Having really high initiative in addition to stealth is just great. That +7 bonus from Gunslinger is something that can't be replaced. I tend to go 6 AGI and 7 DEX, with Paranoia I end up with 30 initiative. I genuinely can't go back to SMGs or ARs for that reason- they do deal more damage, but I don't feel like I need it considering how much damage sniper rifles deal in the first place. I'd rather improve my odds of starting the fight on my own terms regardless of the situation. Keep in mind this is coming from someone who never savescums and tries to keep the death count as low as possible, I guess it's not going to nearly as useful if you do savescum.
Another thing to consider is that Sharpshooter bonus critical damage applies to pistols. All proper sniper builds will have Sharpshooter and Critical Power, so pistols will effectively have 75% more critical damage than SMGs and ARs (only 60% if using Neo-Luger). This becomes even more meaningful considering sniper rifles get a huge benefit out of stacking critical chance (critical damage still being a priority). Smart module and A-A scope give enough damage as is so imo seeker goggles are a much better choice than smart goggles, add Recklessness and Focus Stim, you should end up with around 47% critical chance with the sniper rifle and 44% with the pistol. Or up to 100% in certain situations with Ambush.
-
First time i finished UR i used a combination of 3 bottommost options. Hard in the beginning, somewhat easy near the end. Normal difficulty. And it got nerfed :(
My second playthrough was with topmost option from your list. It's interesting that a build with Psychosis, a feat that takes more than it gives, made it to the very top.
Yeah I feel you, can't wait for the promised pistol buff. Psychosis does have a huge drawback (higher psi cost for everything), but it's vital to build up critical chance so almost all your attacks are crits. A critical Cryokinetic Orb is just devastating.
*snip*
If you're going for a no-reloads/minimal-reloads playthrough, that might be a different ranking. I've played iron man a few times now (never gotten close to winning) and some priorities change.
Another sorting might be on what builds were the most fun to play. I agree that crossbows are not the strongest, but damn they're fun. Another notably fun build was my low-CON knife assassin with Ripper and Recklessness.
Yeah I guess I do have "the most powerful build" in mind when I made up the list. I agree the ranking will be vastly different if it's gear toward Ironman play, also agree a powerful build might not be that fun (i.e.: max DEX pure SMG) to play.
*snip* What's your stat distribution for the metathermics sniper though?
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?AwGloJgVhGDYQHYQGYQEYFoelMXhhHoRq4yGECcAHBuqInTVRsBEQCwzlGHogODQR2iosdTh05ooAqLPhpEyqEA
*snip* So, a list of no-reload Ironman builds (probably a short list) would be useful.
I'm out of my element on this one as I like to poke and prod a game and try to get the most out of the game mechanics. I'm a min-maxer and I don't mind a few reloads here and there. Perhaps you guys who like Ironman play could come up with your own list?
*snip*
You only need 7 DEX for Gunslinger, that's completly enough. 4 attribute points sounds like a pretty big investment, but it's not like you don't get other benefits out of it- 4 bonus initiative and bonus skill points if you decide to invest in lockpicking/pickpocketing/throwing/traps. I usually take lockpicking, throwing and traps so it saves me a ton of skill points, especially considering those skills are of "needs to be high enough" kind rather than "needs to be maxed every level".
Speaking of initiative, that's the biggest selling point for me. Having really high initiative in addition to stealth is just great. That +7 bonus from Gunslinger is something that can't be replaced. I tend to go 6 AGI and 7 DEX, with Paranoia I end up with 30 initiative. I genuinely can't go back to SMGs or ARs for that reason- they do deal more damage, but I don't feel like I need it considering how much damage sniper rifles deal in the first place. I'd rather improve my odds of starting the fight on my own terms regardless of the situation. Keep in mind this is coming from someone who never savescums and tries to keep the death count as low as possible, I guess it's not going to nearly as useful if you do savescum.
Another thing to consider is that Sharpshooter bonus critical damage applies to pistols. All proper sniper builds will have Sharpshooter and Critical Power, so pistols will effectively have 75% more critical damage than SMGs and ARs (only 60% if using Neo-Luger). This becomes even more meaningful considering sniper rifles get a huge benefit out of stacking critical chance (critical damage still being a priority). Smart module and A-A scope give enough damage as is so imo seeker goggles are a much better choice than smart goggles, add Recklessness and Focus Stim, you should end up with around 47% critical chance with the sniper rifle and 44% with the pistol. Or up to 100% in certain situations with Ambush.
Your initiative argument does have merit; I guess kind of ignored this aspect because I'm so familiar with the game I just alpha strike everything out of stealth + avoid all traps/ambushes. In my plays I just brute force everything w/ SMG or AR because the damage is almost always enough for one burst one kill w/ smart goggles + smart lenses + focus stim.
-
The most successful iron man run I did was a stealth SMG with Quick Tinkering, Sure Step, and Pack Rathound to carry a ton of traps and caltrops. Eventually I got Thick Skull at level 12. I eventually died in the Balor zone which was a tragic but totally preventable death--I got spotted because I got careless, but even after I got spotted, I could probably have survived if I hadn't panicked and done several stupid things in a row.
I pay a lot more attention to defense when playing iron man. Less minimaxing and more points to CON. I will say playing super cautiously gets tedious after a while. This probably contributed to my carelessness above. Underrail is a long game.
I think SMG + Quick Tinkering is a good iron man build. Quick Tinkering is one of the most powerful feats in the game. I also like Thick Skull once you start facing things that stun (not many of these until you're through depot A).
My son has gotten to Core City in iron man mode playing a heavy armor assault rifle character, that seems to work pretty well too.
-
As I suspected, SMG is indeed the best "Melee" weapon in the game.
-
The most successful iron man run I did was a stealth SMG with Quick Tinkering, Sure Step, and Pack Rathound to carry a ton of traps and caltrops. Eventually I got Thick Skull at level 12. I eventually died in the Balor zone which was a tragic but totally preventable death--I got spotted because I got careless, but even after I got spotted, I could probably have survived if I hadn't panicked and done several stupid things in a row.
I pay a lot more attention to defense when playing iron man. Less minimaxing and more points to CON. I will say playing super cautiously gets tedious after a while. This probably contributed to my carelessness above. Underrail is a long game.
I think SMG + Quick Tinkering is a good iron man build. Quick Tinkering is one of the most powerful feats in the game. I also like Thick Skull once you start facing things that stun (not many of these until you're through depot A).
My son has gotten to Core City in iron man mode playing a heavy armor assault rifle character, that seems to work pretty well too.
Funny that you should mention this, because these are the exact two builds I have in mind.
SMG-Quick Tinkering:
SMG, Grenades/Throwing, Traps, Stealth and high Con. Super initiative (also Gunslinger for this alone), tons of explosive options, good HP pool, decent evasion, weak armor, mediocre damage drom SMG. Got to lvl 10 just now, but foolishly died to stealthed Lurkers. Trying to dodge an assault rifle burst point blank was not a smart idea, should have used a grenade.
Assault Rifle-Heavy:
*If* I can be bothered to start again before the expansion I will use this. 10 Con, Assault rifle, Juggernaut, maybe stealth also, maybe not. Lack of mobility is major pain, getting hit first in all fights is horrifying, so I am not sure if Ironman is possible.
(Burst-firing weapons are probably OP. Should nerf maybe the Smart-ness of the attack, perhaps.)
-
You forgot hammer-stealth with 3 Con. Fun.
-
So, a list of no-reload Ironman builds (probably a short list) would be useful.
I got to Deep Caverns on Hard without dying on a no-stealth, 3/8/3/3/3/16/10 psi character (skipping the Gauntlet because screw that place) thanks to Paranoia + Gunslinger. Took Pack Rathound for QoL but you could do without it in favor of Quick Tinkering, which I did not take and missed sorely. Recommend aluminized cloth tac vests and generous use of dropping incendiaries at your own feet to scare away melee types in early to mid game.