Author Topic: Thoughts on Melee  (Read 2812 times)

SagaDC

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Thoughts on Melee
« on: September 27, 2013, 09:34:35 am »
Just bought the game last week, and (apparently) I've already logged over forty hours into it. I must say, it's been a pleasantly addictive experience, and I look forward to eventually getting my hands on the final product.

That said, I figured I'd join in on the Suggestion bandwagon. I've played five different character types, and that's given me a few thoughts on things. That said, I'll start with melee (and knives in particular).

I've had a lot of fun messing around with melee, and its interesting to see the 'categories' of melee weaponry. Knives are the quick-attacking low-damage option, and sledgehammers are the slow heavy hitters. Unarmed kind of straddles the line between the two, given the option of leather or metal gloves.

From a character-building standpoint, there are a number of Feats that apply to melee-users that can influence their growth:

Hammers: Bone Breaker, Cheap Shots, Pummel
Knives: Cheap Shots, Crippling Strike, Cut-Throat
Unarmed: Bone Breaker, Cheap Shots, Deflection, Dirty Kick (kind of), Heavy Punch, Lightning Punches

There's some synergy with other Feats, too, like 'Opportunist' (especially in relation to Cheap Shots) and 'Recklessness'. Cut-Throat is incredibly powerful, of course, but it requires an exceptionally high Stealth skill (and appropriate equipment). All told, the current feats for melee weapons are more or less balanced - although Unarmed does get a bit of extra love, not that I'm complaining.

From an equipment standpoint, though, it falls apart a little. Hammers and Unarmed are more exceptional here, especially when custom-building equipment, due to the potential for special attachments. Shock and Piston attachments can significantly increase damage output, at the cost of energy/recharge upkeep, and blades add a nice (but relatively inconsequential) bleeding damage debuff.

Knives don't really match that, though. At the moment, there are three types of knives that come in two different materials - with no options for attachments. Ignoring weapon quality, the average Tungsten Dagger/Knife with about 7-12 damage with an AP cost of 12. That allows for four attacks per round, with an average of 10 damage per hit (discounting crits). At the moment, I believe the best knife is a quest reward, and it comes with a small bonus to defense.

With that in mind, it might be nice to see a few knife mods enter the scene. Maybe some kind of molecular sharpening mod (bonus damage/crit at the cost of durability?), or a custom/weighted grip (bonus to accuracy?). The shock mod for Unarmed/Hammers might be a good fit as well, and some kind of poison or venom mod might also be appropriate (either a low but persistent 'poison' damage modifier, or something that requires periodic reloading).

More Feats are always fun too, of course - although I realize that there are already more on the way. A few potentials spring to mind:

Aim for the Gap / Penetrating Strike: Triggered knife (and possibly unarmed) attack that partially mitigates armor. Provides some extra damage potential against heavily armored targets.

Batter Up / Swing for the Fences: Triggered ability granting bonus damage with a Sledgehammer, at the expense of a boosted AP cost (effectively making it a single attack for the round, given the 25AP attack cost on most hammers). Equivalent to the 'Heavy Punch' Feat for Unarmed. Possibly with a knock-back, knockdown, or stun type effect? Not sure if knock-back or knockdown is something that can be coded in the current engine. Seems redundant to suggest incapacitate or stun, given that those effects are already possible with the Cheap Shots Feat.

Follow Through: Passive ability, granting a small number of bonus Movement Points after a successful melee attack? Allows for maneuvering between strikes, or for a hasty retreat after several successful hits. Synergizes well with Hit and Run.

Go for the Eyes / Eye Gouge: Triggered unarmed attack that does minor (or no) damage, but reduces a living target's combat stats for several turns. Effectively a single-target version of the 'Yell' Feat, but with a focus on Melee instead of Intimidate. Might also apply to knives (although stabbing someone in the eye with a knife would probably do more damage :P).

Hamstring: Triggered knife attack that slows a target (possibly with bleeding damage?). Effectively a 'knife' version of the Kneecap Feat. Provides a potential route of retreat for injured melee-fighters, and works well with 'Opportunist'.

Razor's Edge: Passive ability, granting a small bonus to critically hit with knives - or maybe a percentage chance to cause bleeding damage (maybe on a crit?). Grants a persistent buff to knife-type weapons, matching the persistent buffs offered to Hammers and Unarmed (Bone Breaker, Deflection, Lightning Punches).

Styg

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Re: Thoughts on Melee
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2013, 01:46:57 pm »
Heya,

Thanks for the well thought out post. :)

I'm aware that knives are the only melee weapons without module slot, and I'm planning to add some in the next update. Also, I'm probably going to add some stuff that synergizes well with bleeding attacks (either though feats or poisons or some such) to make those more appealing (outside Cut Throat which, as you said, is powerful as it is).

I like your feat suggestions, so I might use some of those or parts of them. Except for the "Batter Up" feat - I really don't think sledgehammers need a nuke attack since they already deal loads of upfront damage and can bypass mechanical thresholds.

SagaDC

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Re: Thoughts on Melee
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2013, 03:07:45 pm »
Nice. Always good to hear that you're one step ahead of the players, when it comes to content design. Not surprising, though, since you've already built a pretty solid game. :)

I also wanted to suggest some kind of 'powered' version of the knife, like a vibro-knife or ripper blade (depending on what Sci-Fi property you look at). Not sure how well that would fit the setting, though, since the highest-tech items portrayed thus far are energy pistols and sentry-bots.

Amidst those feat suggestions, I really wanted to work one in with a 'Knight' theme. The recent introduction of Riot Armor with Shields really seemed to lend itself in that direction, especially given that the armor set only really meshes with pistol and/or knife use (and maybe unarmed? Haven't tried that combo yet). Not sure what it would do, though. Maybe something along the lines of...

Knight Terror / Silent Knight: Passive Feat that grants an additional minor Encumbrance reduction (stacking with Nimble), to still make the Riot Armor w/ Shield viable in terms of movement and stealth (since 50+ encumbrance can be pretty crippling in that regard). Maybe an additional percentage chance for the 'Block' effect of the Shield to trigger in melee combat. Possibly restricted by weapon choice (although honestly there are only three weapons that someone in that armor set can use anyway).

Or maybe...

Blockade / The Wall: Passive Feat that grants an additional chance to trigger the 'Block' effect of a Shield against mechanical ranged attacks. Or possibly a passive or triggered ability that grants resistance/threshold to non-mechanical ranged attacks such as Acid, Cold, Heat, or (maybe) Electricity. Maybe a passive ability that reduces or eliminates the encumbrance penalty, but only in regards to Dodge and/or Evasion?

Regardless, I look forward to seeing what you come up with. Especially if any of my suggestions were solid enough to influence some small part of the game design. :P

Apologies on the post lengths. I tend to get a little carried away when I start thinking on things like game design. But that's usually just because I really, really enjoy the game in question.

EDIT - Playing through the Junkyard area again at the moment (with my sniper/trapper build) and I just remembered that there's a 'Tackle' effect that dogs can inflict. Since it's already coded, it might be ideal for use in an Unarmed Feat. Maybe a triggered ability that causes unarmed damage and imposes the Tackle effect on the target, or maybe a passive ability that automatically causes the Tackle effect (percentage chance or on-crit?).
« Last Edit: September 27, 2013, 04:56:02 pm by SagaDC »