Optimizing a pure sniper build

[Ravager]

I'm playing a pure sniper build based on an ancient template (NerdCommando) on Hard mode. (Started before the expansion came out).

I kind of just went with the flow, and have made suboptimal decisions lately because I wasn't paying attention to nerfs. (Just finished an SMG character).

For example, my sniper took Gun Nut at level 4, and I just took Blitz at level 10.

Now, the smart thing to do would have been to take Sharpshooter at this level, or maybe 12, and then take a secondary weapon perk at 10, such as an SMG-centric one.

But I am tired of SMG anyway. I am already using traps as a secondary weapon, and would rather use a pistol as a backup than an SMG. For variety.

So, how can I optimize a sniper for non-SMG but yes to traps/pistols (especially traps)? My big problem right now is crowd-control, so I'm going to have to craft a rapid 7.62 rifle ASAP. (I'm tired of both SMG and grenades. They work, but I just went through Expedition with them on another character.)

Here are the character's stats so far (Level 10):

Str: 5
Dex: 3
Agi: 10
Con: 3
Per: 11
Wil: 3
Int: 7

Aimed Shot / Gun Nut / Interloper / Sprint / Snipe / Ambush / Blitz


The current plan for perks is:

Sharpshooter (12) / Critical Power (14) / Paranoia (16) / Skinner (18) / Nimble (20) / Pack Rathound (22)

And I wouldn't mind fitting clothier in there, as well.

One thing that's different from previous builds, for me, is that I would like to concentrate also on Merchant. I'll need good merchant to build good rifles. I already have 20 at Level 10.

It was fun fighting the Rathound King, which I just did. Laid a typical minefield, which took care of most of the rats (there are extra on Hard, it seems), and got into a sniper duel with the King. [If I had taken Sharpshooter at 10, I would have got him in one shot. Always trust your instinct on these things.]


Right now, she has access to an 8.6mm Harbinger (max 84 damage), a Smart LS .44 Hammerer (max 72 damage), a 12.7mm Corsair bipod (max 143 damage), and a 12.7mm Harbinger Commando (max 105 damage). And +6% critical chance goggles.

[TheAverageGortsby]

I wouldn't worry about Clothier.  The benefit you get from it is really tiny.  You'd be better off with Power Management - because as you'll see, bullet pistols are really not very good at all, and a crafted plasma pistol will significantly outperform a crafted .44 Hammerer.  All Clothier will get you is a tiny bit more stealth but with 10 Agi, you're going to be so sneaky nothing but robots and Death Stalkers will ever see you anyway unless you want them to.  Gun Nut will still give you its benefit on your sniper rifle.

Pick up a little chemistry along with your mechanics and start making grenades.  Flashbangs and incendiaries will do marvellous things for your ability to manage crowds.  And maybe consider - since you've got 5 Str already - freeing up one more points for it and rolling with an AR as your backup weapon, if you want to stick with bullets.

[Riggs]

bullet pistols are really not very good at all

Oh how I wish this wasn't true. 

[chimaera]

I am by no means a firearms expert, but I have to admit that I actually liked pistols the most (and rifles the least) precisely because they aren't as op as the other guns. Pistols work quite well with ambush and since they don't suffer from move & shoot penalty, you can play peek-a-boo around corners.

You have 5 strenght, so you could pick steadfast aim and then try to get the critical chance up to 100% with the help of items items; try the .44 hammerer with LS and experiment with various bullets for that (e.g. explosive if you can find the blueprint). When I played around with a gunslinger, the advantage for me was that it had far better precision than plasma, meaning my character could set up ambush halfway across the screen if needed (using molotovs as a light source). Another alternative would be a falchion with LS, since it has a higher critical chance & you can shoot twice (or thrice with adrenaline), with microshrapnel bullets.

And you can still use a plasma pistol as another back up weapon with steadfast aim, so it's really a small investment.

edit: I should add a disclaimer that my choices are often not optimal and based on roleplaying. 

[Ravager]

Thanks for these suggestions. I got distracted by the Underrail 2 suggestions thread, but I've been mulling this over in my head.

I like the plasma pistol idea - conveniently, my character just fished one out of the water. I think that's a sign.

But Steadfast Aim is also in line with what I am doing. It's becoming more and more of a critical-oriented build.

Hard to choose. I can see either Power Management, or Steadfast Aim. It could go either way.

The assault rifle backup idea is nice, although it's close to the SMG concept. And I wonder if the Assault Rifle would really give me a boost on the jetski. Can you use them one-handed? Pistols might work better for me there.

[chimaera]

Well, there are also shotguns for close range combat. With 5 strength you can only use the non-burst ones, I think, so it should be a different playstyle from assault rifles and smgs. Not sure how good a shotgun without leading shot is, however, since I only tested it with this feat. On the upside, tungsten shells daze &stun (so it's a bit of cc as well) and are easy to craft.

[Eximus]

I've played a few sniper builds on dominating, pure sniper is definitely manageable on hard.

As far as CC is concerned, if you aren't relying on grenades or commando bursting, and don't want to drop traps every fight you'll have a hard time without psi.

Chemical pistols have decent CC. Cryo can freeze for 1 turn, Acid can entangle for 2 turns and Incendiary ablazes/fears for 2 turns, only problem is you can't buy ammo until late midgame, and they'll cost 25 AP to fire with your 3 dex. So you'll need to use rr-spearhead or svd.

Regular pistols really only offer the ability to shoot close and after moving with no penalty, but you'll spend the entire turn killing a single enemy, since you'll always switch to sniper when aimedshot is up.

Energy pistols also suffer from the relatively high AP cost and although work better as a sidearm they pale in comparison to gun rushed AR.

Shotguns are without a doubt the best backup and easily deal with spawn/damaged enemies/grouped enemies. Craft a tactical short vindicator (higher max/wider cone) or vagabond (higher min) for the 20 AP cost higher damage and wider spread (can fire rr-reaper + forward grip shotgun same turn) Exclusively use hoppershot it takes almost everything out at point blank, without leading shot tungsten is not reliable.

Feat wise you absolutely want to get shooting spree and uncanny dodge. Shooting spree is tremendously powerful. Uncanny dodge lets you sprint/position with much more freedom and is easily the best feat for a low con build in the game. Dont drop any more into dodge than 40, you'll get 4 stacks which is more than enough for most melee enemies that can 1 shot 3 con.

Throwing nets are fairly reliable close range with minimal throwing, flash bangs are pretty much required, and taser is also very reliable. Flares of course for ambush.

Overall the sniper really shines with cryostasis + cryogenic induction and electrokinetic imprint, and that build doesn't require more than 3 will or any points into psi above 45 kinetics and 50 metathermics (for destabilization) and ideally 55 temporal for contraction. So if you decide to reroll definitely give that build a try.


Also jetski combat is fine with the sniper as long as you have flashbangs to give yourself enough time to land hits. You can use any weapon on one. Shotgun is particularly effective against the numerous type of enemy you'll encounter on the sea.

[Ravager]

Yes, although my sniper is based on the older game, the expansion offers possibilities. Since there are shotguns lying around (shouldn't have sold the ones I found), I could try seeing how that goes as a backup.

It's also a crafting build, so it should be possible to craft a tactical short vindicator.

[Ravager]

Okay, I think I am going to go with Shotgun.

I am at Level 16, and instead of choosing Paranoia (which is in the template Sniper build), I think will go with a Shotgun feat.

I could take Leading Shot and then craft a tactical short vindicator.

Then, I would have a weapon for close-in, and possibly multiple enemies.

It's either that, or go with Power Management and craft a Plasma Pistol. Then, take Steadfast Aim at L 20 or 24.


Overall, I need a backup weapon for my Sniper rifle. I have 5 STR, and a Sniper build.

Basically, I can take 1 feat right now, for the backup weapon. And maybe 1 around Level 20.

So I can go Shotgun (Leading Shot?), Energy Pistols (Power Management?), or Pistols (Steadfast Aim / Opportunist?)

[SMGs are possible too, but I want to avoid that].

Or I can take 1 Strength, and get Assault Rifles + automatic shotguns. But I'd rather put it in PER.

So what's the best strategy for Shotgun or Energy Pistol as a backup weapon?

[chimaera]

For shotguns I'd say sixth shell & leading shot. Sixth shell with hoppershot is very nice, and plenty of enemies in the expedition have low armor. But you will get more feat synergy on pistols.

[Ravager]

I haven't ruled out pistols. I'm already using one as a backup, but it usually takes an entire turn to deal with a single enemy.

I like that the Neo Luger doesn't require much AP, so I use it when I'm cornered and running, or in other situations where I've already done something. It can still fire using Blitz after I can no longer fire sniper rifles.

So it has a definite place.

But what feat would I take at Level 16? Steadfast Aim? Or Opportunist, with the hope of getting Execute later? Or maybe Gunslinger?

[chimaera]

With classic firearms, my pistoleer was relying mostly on ambush, using either a rapid falchion (for the higher critical chance) or the .44 hammerer. Neoluger could be useful for silent kills I guess (if you use a silencer), but I've never bothered. But I think in terms of feats, you could actually work with what you already have, if you only want pistols as a back up weapon. So you could pick the feats for energy weapons instead and use whatever pistol (falchion, hammerer, electroshock, laser) would be most suitable for the situation.

That said, shotguns are more powerful and easy to use. The devs have no love for the 'wild west' gunslinger, it seems.