Underrail > Suggestions

Some quest clarity suggestions

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Vrab:

--- Quote from: Tygrende on July 14, 2017, 02:12:30 pm ---As for removing the organic material on the gate, as you said yourself, Six explicitly mentions that tchortlings wouldn't pursue him into the Mushroom Forest and that may contain something that might help you get rid of it. It's kind of a major area too so it's only natural you should visit it if all else fails.
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This is more or less how it worked for me, but when I first visited it I didn't manage to find a way forward but just kept running in circles among ever respawning mobs with dwindling ammo and hypos. So in that regard it's possible it's more about the way progressing through the forest works than knowing the solution is there. Once I knew for certain that's where I needed to go to find whatever I was looking for I simply kept running in circles until I accidentally stacked up the debuff. So it could be that just changing the way that works, for example by making it clear that Leo's story is in fact not a joke, would be enough.

The problem with Six is that his dialogue is rather long and happens before I had any idea of what to expect. So as I got overwhelmed by learning the layout of the region and figuring how the Eye of Tchort works and all the rest of the trouble one typically encounters when first entering a large new area of the game I kinda forgot much of what he said, at least the tone of it as in if it's actually an instruction or just some background lore.

Still now that I think of it, it was more about how to progress inside the forest than knowing I had to go there. It's in any case obvious I'll eventually have to go there since as you said it is, well, there. So it must serve some purpose. That's pretty much how I went through the labyrinth. But stacking up on a debuff on purpose was just not something I ever counted on.

Darthgrey:
Heh, I had the same problems during my walkthrough and all the same problems in Deep caverns. I accidentaly got high on spore infection, accidentaly powered up Hollow Earth and I missed pulsing root during looting( Thank God we have google, but even with google I did not solved mutagen puzzle... Also due to game bug I did not had chat with Six, so I had to google many things, but even with that chat quest with cleaning gate from organics is not obvious.

Vrab:

--- Quote from: epeli on July 15, 2017, 11:28:08 am ---But other than that, I don't think the devs intend to change Deep Caverns much. It really tests the player's reasoning to figure things out without explicit guidance, but Six explains your main objectives which leads you to more detailed hints (Leo, the gate mechanism, etc) as you explore.
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Well that is the point of contention here then, because I felt like my reasoning wasn't so much tested as my self discipline and resolve not to just run to google. I'm just playing for a second time and now that I actually know what is what I can follow Six's dialogue and understand what is he saying much better. But when the player is first thrust into the new environment (which is that one time when things like this matter) having 1 npc tell you important details in the form of hints before you even know what is going on and who after that leaves permanently is in my opinion stretching things bit too much. I'm certainly not suggesting things get changed much, I think that a simple clue thrown in at one or two places would go a long way to totally eliminating any confusion and allow the player to actually engage the challenges instead of aimlessly trying to do the right thing by accident. A log entry at one of the computer consoles for example or a note somewhere would likely be all it takes.

In any case, I get I sound like wanting nerfs to the content and I don't doubt you had your fair share of that so far. However my gripe here isn't with difficulty as it is with clarity of purpose. I'm ok having to think my way through a problem and spend a lot of time doing it, I'd just like to know what I'm doing it for. Except for a few instances that I named, game did this very well. The SGS murder investigation quest was for example very enjoyable in this regard. Or opening the GMS building when I had no sneak skill, was too weak to confront the robots and haven't figured the ventilation shafts yet so I spent a while figuring their patrol routes and camera mechanics. As long as the goal is clear everything else is fair game. But I didn't have that same feel in the case of organic removal.

Vrab:

--- Quote from: epeli on July 16, 2017, 06:09:32 am ---Styg can be pretty stubborn and stays true to his vision even if it isn't received as expected. But if it's any consolation, there won't be more areas like DC as many players just didn't like it.

Also, I understand this isn't about difficulty or content nerfs. I'm not trying to blindly go against that or anything along those lines, I'm just trying to give realistic expectations of what changes might happen. There's probably going to be a period of tweaking & improving old content once the expansion is released, although most of that will probably be towards the new expansion content. But there are overarching changes coming to the entire base game as well, so it's not like the base game is done and forgotten. We'll see.
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I get it, that's fine. With what people often ask and expect from games it's really better to have a stubborn dev than one that "listens to the community" and everything else that euphemism implies.

Vrab:

--- Quote from: epeli on July 17, 2017, 03:04:16 pm ---They do listen, they just don't follow through that "always implement everything the community wants" part of it.

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Oh don't think I was being negative. I've witnessed a few games go down the hill because devs caved in to complaints that tend to not be legitimate for the most part and have it all called "listening to the community", I kinda developed an allergic reaction to the phrase lol.

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