Underrail Forum
Underrail => Builds => Topic started by: hilf on February 03, 2016, 08:17:33 pm
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Build updated for Expedition. Hard difficulty. I'll try to keep Expedition spoilers low.
I removed original build since it was way outdated and could lead to confusion.
Synergistic Glass Cannon of All Trades v 1.1 - Expedition
This build is able to do quite a lot of things. Primary thing it can not do is getting various lore bits that require high WIL.
With Expedition i've decided to add PSI to my repertoire in a form of Temporal Manipulation. We won't be raising it from lvl 1 though, i'll explain later.
Since it's a glass cannon it's not a good build for players who want to minimize number of reloads.
It's not a build for beginners as it lacks defense. Well, passive defense, at least. I've played this build on both XP modes and it's doing fine except some early game pain. Zero passive defense can make us die really fast but our active defense can carry us.
Weapon type that fits best into this build is pistols, specifically energy and chemical.
This has good secret detection, good traps detection, excellent fishing, good active defense, can open any door, hack any terminal and pickpocket many pockets. It's a good build for exploring the game. One inconvenience is that a few secrets need more than 10 PER so it needs extra PER from goggles/consumables to spot them.
ATTRIBUTES
STR 3
DEX 10 (+6)
AGI 3
CON 3
PER 10
WIL 3
INT 8
We're starved for ability scores, hence no Steadfast Aim for us. But it's not too important for this build. We'll manage.
We only need 7 INT for crafting but i've added one more point here since it gives us the most - lots of skill points and extra damage from energy pistols. +1 CON is bad on a build without dodge/evasion. +1 STR is +10 carry which is QoL.
16 DEX is an important threshold for chemical guns' AP cost. It also makes electro gun shoot for 20 AP - mixes well with laser's 10.
130 carry capacity is bad for a trap user but on Hard difficulty i'd rather not pick convenience feats like Pack Rathound especially since we are feat starved due to using both energy and chemical guns. Infused pig boots with +30 capacity will help.
And we're feat starved even with 3 extra from expansion because there are some nice new feats to take.
SKILLS
Guns 160
Throwing 50
Dodge 30 (or 0)
Stealth 160
Hacking 72
Lockpicking 45
Pickpocket 50
Traps 45
Mechanics 50
Electronics 100
Chemistry 71
Biology 80
Tailoring 87
Temporal Manipulation 70
Persuasion 49**
Mercantile 70
99 unspent points. This is a lot but that will be at endgame. At early levels skill points are actually in short supply with that many skills. I put some points into Mercantile and Persuasion at the beginning to save cash. No Temporal at the start because it'd make us too squishy, we don't skill points for that (yet) and because first Temporal ability isn't good for this build. I took a psi pill when i could put at least 35 points into Temporal.
Dodge should only be leveled when/if taking Escape Artist.
Enough crafting for best components found before Deep Caverns.
We harvest some real benefits from our godly DEX: throwing, traps, lockpicking and pickpocketing can be half skills and still effective late game. We get some benefits from synergies as well. We also gain significant combat benefits. Marvelous.
But our INT is just as good as we develop all 7 INT related skills. Enough mechanics to craf adv. repair kits, breaking things apart and using metal plates for traps. Mechanics level, with all boosts, is enough to craft midgame Tactical Vest/Riot Gear and best Seeker Goggles.
Early game we can craft 35 AP sniper rifle, quaff adrenaline shot to have just enough STR and shoot twice per turn. I haven't try this but it's and option to consider.
Enough Hacking and Lockpicking for endgame checks with the best tool. You'll need food for hardest locks.
Bio/Chem get sweet synergy bonus. We'll be able to craft the best stuff. Fishing for components is easy with our DEX (and x5 speedhack). We'll also benefit from crafting chemical pistols. Synergies of this build just don't stop to amuse me.
Pickpocketing to steal some keys, meds and tons of bullets. Bullets sell well at general stores (Foundry, Core City). Expedition has at least one pickpocketing check with interesting consequences.
Traps hints: You need 80 Traps to recover most mines in Depot A. You need 90 Traps to recover Spoiler King's traps. Jackknife and Trapper's Belt can help.
60 in Persuasion is enough to pass many checks in this game. There's one 110 check in DC but it only allows to skip a fight that is easy for this build anyway.
Mercantile synergises nicely with Persuasion and fits name of this build very well. With Under-Pie it's enough to unlock best mercantile only equipment.
Unspent points can go into other psi schools for extra options, e.g. 45 Psychokinesis for Force Field and Imprint or 35 Metathermics for Cryostasis. Note that Cryostasis can't be learned in Deep caverns since there's no Mentor for it.
FEATS
Core:
Aimed Shot - Our bread and butter ability. Useful for energy guns and nerfed pyro pistol if you want to get decent damage per turn with it.
Opportunist - There will be many opportunities to use it coming from traps, taser, cryogun/acidgun/shockgun, crawler poison, net and Temporal Dilation.
Nimble - Good for our sneak and movement points.
Quick Tinkering - Great active defense, will save our butt many times. Limited Temporal Increment wil help with its cooldown.
Ambush - Crucial feat for our primary tactics.
Mad Chemist - Mandatory for cryogun as 2 turns of iceblock are MUCH better than 1. For pyro it increases duration which isn't very good but at least we'll be able to Ambush returning enemies.
Cooked Shot - AoE and short cooldown. Great for hitting hard to hit enemies.
Power Management - Makes reloading energy pistols more managable and also gives us better energy shields.
High-Technicalities - Let's make use of our high INT.
Critical Power - An obvious choice for energy pistols.
Practical Physicist - An obvious choice for energy pistols.
Psycho-Temporal Acceleration - big boost for our 'Haste' and 'Slow'.
Escape Artist - It's mandatory for using a unique chemical pistol. If you don't want to use it you may skip it together with 30 Dodge but it's a good defensive feat.
Other considered feats:
Sharpshooter - Take it if you find your pistols' crit damage still lacking. The only way to increase chemical pistols' crit damage bonus.
Grenadier - We can make good use of this one. Works good with Quick Pockets and Three Pointer but it's also good on its own.
Skinner - To craft some badass leather armours. Skip if you prefer regen tac vests but leather armours is what i recommend. Expedition has new leather armours to craft which adds value to this feat.
Quick Pockets - We can certainly make use of extra utility slot and reduced cost of switching weapons. Handy, but second tier.
Blindsiding
Paranoia
Three Pointer - Works with incendiary nades too but it's mostly for 1HKO from frag/HE.
Pack Rathound - Useful for someone with 3 STR and traps in his backpack. But with speedhack i've managed without it. Once i got Infused Pig Boots i was doing just fine.
Increased Dexterity - Together with +1 DEX from food it allows us to fire our pistols even faster!
Increased Perception - Or go with higher damage and chance to hit.
Scrutinous - Nice bonus but requires taking Increased Perception.
SPECIALIZATIONS:
Cooked Shot 4/5 (or 5/5 if you find yourself lacking that 1 AP)
Critical Power 5/10 (or more if you don't have any better idea)
Quick Tinkering 2/2
Escape Artist 3/3 is pretty good if you want to use unique chemical pistol often
Build example in epeli's tool:
https://underrail.info/build/?HgMQAwMKAwjCoDIAAB4AwqBILTItMmRHUFcAAABGMQBGJCYBMALCkVYWS8KaTlopXSvCh8K1wq3CncKF4qOwAuKnvgXiqJwD4rK7Bd-_
ITEMS
Weapons:
Our weapon of choice is Amplified Laser Pistol, either Efficient or with new module from Expedition. Others will be Smart Amplified Electroshock, three chemicals and perhaps Smart Plasma. Of course we will be using SMGs early game because they just roflstomp pistols that much. We'll be using chem pistols once we'll craft them at Junkyard. We'll keep using SMGs for some time due to fast attacks, burst and plentiful ammo.
Armours:
Our target armour is Padded (high density) Infused Pig Leather Overcoat + Infused Pig Tabi Boots. That's a lot of extra health and good mechanical resistance. It's sick for glass cannon luke us. You can also use normal Infused Pig Boots for better mech resist or ninja tabis for more stealth.
For sneaking we'll have Padded (soft) Siphoner Overcoat. Light, good for sneaking around, for Ambush and protect us from acid puddles and burning ground we create. What a package. Complement it with ninja tabi.
Another notable armour is Regenerative Psionic Overcoat. 20% armour penalty with Nimble - for defensive capabilities it provides it's not much. Regeneration is BIG on Hard+. It can be crafted early into the game, i got my first regen vest by infiltrating Junkyard embassy. Good vs bullets but also vs Crawlers if used with low frequency shield emitter. And with high quality components even vs Death Stalkers.
There's an awesome leather armour to craft in Expedition. It's bad for our primary strategy but it's got other qualities.
For jet ski combat we'll have Antithermic Laminated Tactical Vest with a new component in shield slot.
Other:
For exploration and placing traps we'll use Trapper's Belt. For combat - Doctor's Pouch or Advanced Catalyzing Belt when using chemical pistol. Sadly the latter doesn't add utility slot.
Cloaking Device for extra stealth.
Seeker Goggles by default. Smart Goggles for alpha strikes with electroshock pistol.
Faction Shops:
We'll join Religuous Scientists, they have some of the best shop electronic and chemical shops. Their armoury can roll very high quality chemical collectors but it's rare.
Anarchists' shop offers high quality black cloth regularly so it's a fine choice. If you choose the other faction then keep visiting Lucas and Derica - they have a small chance of rolling q140+ black cloth.
How to play:
Use your stealth to start combat on your own terms, use bear traps to disable melee and hide behind a corner to avoid getting attacked.
More on that later. With Quick Tinkering you can place mines right under enemy noses. You can also throw various things at your enemies, nets can be really helpful. Eat eel sandwiches if they grant you extra attacks. You can use gas grenades to lure human opponents and kill them without starting combat with others.
Initiative of this build isn't good but it grows as we level up and there's Root Soda for those situations where you need to win initiative roll.
Strategy 1: Ambush!
Stay in shadow and Ambush! enemies who are 'enlightened'. If they are not then throw a molotov and make them! I can't stress enough how much i love this feature of molotovs. Underrail rocks for allowing creative gameplay like this. Here's why laser rules: your range allows you to ambush enemies at the other side of fire zone, you also don't need to move much and will get Sharpshooter bonus more often.
Ambush is rather tricky. Sometimes it wont work where you think it should. Sometimes it's the opposite. But incendiary nades were pretty consistent at enabling it. Pyro pistol and flares may enable it as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hEIzls7qPc
Stealth threshold for Ambush feat:
- 150: +65% crit chance; with good Seekers and Focus Stim we will cap crit chance
- 200: +80% crit chance; we will cap with either Stim or Seekers, this is our target value
- 250: +95% crit chance; possible with stealth gear and top combat gear with cloaking device
Strategy 2: Chemical pistols
Use chemical pistols and catalyzing belts. Acid + fire is a good combo. Melee gets owned by acid entanglement, shield emitters are mostly bypassed and Opportunist is easily enabled. Entangled enemies can be treated with pyrogun - if they catch fire they won't run away, will probably die from DOTs and maybe even enable ambush for you :D Fun!
Acid + cryo isn't bad either, many human enemies are immune to burning. Remember that pyro and cryo pistols cancel each other's effects (except belt debuffs).
For jet ski battles best pistols are cryo followed by pyro. For sea creatures use cryo/energy.
When fighting robots equip acid and some energy gun.
When fighting Goliathi equip zapgun and pyrogun. Start combat with zapgun Aimed Shot to kill at least one. Cooked Shot bypasses 'Mirror Image' and burning makes them run away. Use also caltrops since beetles are slow.
SPOILER SECTION
**55 Persuasion is enough to save Buzzer. You might need to deal with Faceless group near Foundry first tho.
This build can pass Persuasion checks higher than 60 but it needs something from Expedition.
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This is probably a stupid question - because I have not touched guns in Underrail - but if you rely on sci-fi pistols (plasma, electroshock and acid), do you need 16 dexterity? Wouldn't 14 (plus one from food) be enough? Because with the short range of those pistols, I'd rather have 6 agility for sprint.
And I am not sure about 3 constitution, light armor and no dodge and evasion. Grenades and sci-fi guns make a lot of noise, which means once you attack, everything is going to zoom on your position. How would fight the tchortists, for example? There are very few vents at the university and some of the rooms you enter have heavy melee stationed at the door, and mages with snipers further behind.
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14+1 DEX could work - with adrenaline it would allow for molotov + 5 * laser. But having 16 DEX is really good because:
laser costs 10 AP = 5 attacks,
chemguns cost 12 AP = 4 attacks,
unique acid gun costs 6 AP = 8 attacks,
plasma costs 20 AP = 3 attacks with Point Shot; it's also nice number to mix with laser shots,
At endgame you can craft a drug that gives you + 2 DEX and thus: laser for 8 AP, chemguns for 10 AP, unique acid gun for 5 AP = still 8 attacks + 10 AP (crappy ammo cap and costly reload :/), shockgun for 12 AP.
If you also eat eel sandwich you will have plasma for 15 AP, chemguns for 8, laser for 7. Pretty apex.
You don't fight Tchortists. They have best electronics and chemical shops in the game and they also give you great acid gun in one of their quests.
But since i was curious how do they fight i went to elevator area and started a fight. I was not prepared, didn't have my best armor, i intended to die and, see how many i can kill and load the game. And i killed everyone but one of them. With some preparations (placing mines under their noses) it would be doable. But battle by the fountain could be hard indeed.
Placing mines is not the fastest/most entertaining activity but can win you pretty much every encounter.
You shouldn't need sprint, with tabi you'll have about 70 MP. You can get extra +10 from Jumping Bean and their components are very abundant.
sci-fi guns make a lot of noise, which means once you attack, everything is going to zoom on your position
Wrong, watch my bonus video.
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Well, my character fought the tchortist for roleplaying reasons (and that probably won't change, I like the little guys in the basement too much), hence the question. ;)
I play on hard, however.
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This is pretty cool. 16+2+1 Dex seems waaay overkill, but overkill is fun.
I just finished a playthrough with a non-crafter pistoleer and really wanted to use chemical pistols somehow. Found none but acid blob though (assuming the others are obtainable only by crafting), and none of those were much of a match for my laser pistol. Tempted to try a scientist dabbler or something. Is Mad Chemist essential for producing worthwhile chemical pistols? Any point in using them without it? Well, obviously XAL doesn't benefit from it and you make that sound pretty good.
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Couple of things i forgot to mention:
1. Early game craft sturdy black overcoat laminated tac vest with burrower plates. With Nimble its armor penalty will be just 30%, it won't jeopardize our sneaking and allow for some not bad bonus from Ambush. I still recommend having 'sneaky' armor for exploration. My tact vest had 16 mechanical DT and made me immune to turrets, sentry bots and many early game gun users.
2. Stealth threshold for Ambush feat:
- 150: +65% crit chance, with good Seekers and Focus Stim we will cap,
- 200: +80% crit chance, we will cap with either Stim or Seekers, this is our target value,
- 250: +95% crit chance, possible with stealth gear and probably with very best combat gear crafted with DC components.
Recklessness is worth about 23 stealth. With this feat we will cap crit chance with best pre-DC combat gear.
3. You don't need complete darkness to make Ambush work. I could, for example utilize it in central part of Military Organization base. Too bad game does not tell you where can you ambush (Styg, you promised!) and some trial & error will be neccessary.
4. I've cleared Military Organization base. I didn't use ambush there because i abused zone transition like everyone else. What's important here is that being such a glass canon does not prevent you from doing this. On hard difficulty it shouldn't be much different thanks to very good crafted shield.
5. You can use Morphine+Aegis to get 65% damage reduction for 2 turns. I didn't have to use Aegis on normal difficulty. Farming borers is easy because bladelings die easily to acid/laser.
This is pretty cool. 16+2+1 Dex seems waaay overkill, but overkill is fun.
I just finished a playthrough with a non-crafter pistoleer and really wanted to use chemical pistols somehow. Found none but acid blob though (assuming the others are obtainable only by crafting), and none of those were much of a match for my laser pistol. Tempted to try a scientist dabbler or something. Is Mad Chemist essential for producing worthwhile chemical pistols? Any point in using them without it? Well, obviously XAL doesn't benefit from it and you make that sound pretty good.
19 DEX is an overkill but you won't have that +2 bonus very often. I actually finished the game on lvl 22 with 15 DEX and eating sandwich for harder battles.
Chem guns generally start weak but their power grows fast with quality. That's because their damage grows, their DOT % grows and chance for DOT grows as well.
Cryo without Mad Chemist is good vs melee as chilling always lands and duration is long enough. It also enables small Opportunist bonus with every hit. 1 turn duration of freeze is rather mediocre. If you freeze with your last hit you won't benefit from big Opportunist bonus and you won't be able to Execute should you pick that feat. Sure, it's still 1 turn of CC but unlike psionics it's chance based. 2 turns from Mad Chemist are MUCH better.
Acid guns does not benefit much from Mad Chemist. First reason: unique acid pistol is the best acid pistol. Second reason: chance and DOT damage is not too large (compared to Pyro). Your chance to entagle is not affected by Chemist. There's a reason to still have normal acid gun in DC, actually two: special DC acid is BAD to use with XAL; normal acid is almost nonexistant in DC (bring a lot of acid with you).
Pyro gun is interesting because it benefits a lot from Chemist while being good without it. Chance to fear your enemy and fear durations are not affected by Chemist. But your enemy is likely to survive and use health hypo. Because DOT chance and damage are high pyro will benefit a lot from Mad Chemist. Your enemies will more often die from DOT allowing you to just fire (no pun intended) and forget about them. With Execute critical this baby can deal 2500 (total) damage. Pretty apex.
If you want to use acid gun only, skip Mad Chemist. Otherwise take it. And yes pyro and cryo guns are crafting only.
If you trust Nerd Commando you can watch his scientist video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcvvYIQFBzE&list=PL4UqltmSKaEeXDKyLU1VduPd9beRw47AD&index=29), he talks about both high DEX and Mad Chemist. He's also making a glass cannon, even without traps and all his builds are hard difficulty viable.
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Here's a video featuring XAL and energy pistols in a boss fight at Arke Power Station (so spoilers, obviously):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFkX6XspMKE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFkX6XspMKE)
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Here's a video featuring XAL and energy pistols in a boss fight at Arke Power Station (so spoilers, obviously):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFkX6XspMKE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFkX6XspMKE)
Was hoping for a video of it in action thank you!
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Mega spoiler: final boss battle (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI0FEzlHofQ).
Recorded at version 1.0.1.4.
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This build is for Experimental Branch with Version 1.0.3.13, Hard difficulty.
Synergistic Glass Cannon of All Trades v 1.0.3
The goal was to make a build that can do everything but i abandoned PSI due to low WIL and max HP hit.
PSI is mostly just a weapon and we're going to use other combat tools. Many of them.
It's not a build for beginners as it lacks defense. Well, passive defense, at least.
I'm playing on Hard + Classic exp, so far it's doing fine except some early game pain. Zero passive defense can make you die incredibly fast, but our active defense can carry us.
Weapon type that fits best into this build is pistols, specifically energy and chemical.
This build has good initiative, good secret detection, good traps detection, excellent fishing, good active defense, can open any doors and pickpocket many pockets. It's great for exploring the game but you need some experience with combat or you'll die.
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQMQAwMKAwjChzcAAAAAwodaMCMyK2RYWFQAAAA_ADwBJiQwAlbCkSlLWsKaXTMW
Ability scores:
STR 3
DEX 10 (+6)
AGI 3
CON 3
PER 10
WIL 3
INT 8
We're starved for ability scores, hence no Steadfast Aim for us. But it's not very important for this build. We'll manage.
Enough PER for Sharpshooter, max DEX for attack speed and skills. 3 AGI on a stealthy character pains me but one extra point of INT is necessary since food can no longer give INT.
130 carry capacity is bad for a trap user but on Hard difficulty i'd rather not pick convenience feats like Pack Rathound especially since we are feat starved due to using both energy and chemical guns. Infused pig boots with +30 capacity will help.
16 DEX is important for all our guns. Even for laser because with +1 from food we will have some AP to spend on meds or we'll be shooting plasma pistol twice per turn!
Skills:
Guns 135
Throwing 55*
Stealth 135
Hacking 90
Lockpicking 48
Pickpocket 35
Traps 50*
Mechanics 43*
Electronics 100
Chemistry 88*
Biology 88
Tailoring 84
Persuasion 52 63**
Mercantile 72 60
*6 unspent skill points left. They will go either into Mechanics for better Seekers, Chemistry for uber chemguns in DC or Throwing/Traps.
My goal is crafting using best pre-DC components but there's enough electronics to craft energy pistols from best components game has to offer.
We harvest some real benefits from our godly DEX: throwing, traps, lockpicking and pickpocketing can be half skills and still effective late game. We get some benefits from synergies as well. We also gain significant combat benefits. Marvelous.
But our INT is just as good as we develop all 7 INT related skills. Enough mechanics to craf adv. repair kits, breaking things apart and using metal plates for traps. Mechanics level is enough to craft midgame Regenerative Tac Vest with black overcoat which is especially valuable on Hard due to healing consumables penalty.
Early game we can craft 35 AP sniper rifle, quaff adrenaline shot to have just enough STR and shoot twice per turn. I haven't try this but it's and option to consider.
Enough Hacking and Lockpicking for endgame checks with the best tool. You'll need food for hardest locks.
Bio/Chem get sweet synergy bonus. We'll be able to craft the best stuff. Fishing for components is very easy with our DEX (and x5 speedhack). We'll also benefit from crafting chemical pistols. Synergies of this build just don't stop to amuse me.
There's no need for more Tailoring after infused leather quality nerf.
Pickpocketing to steal some keys, meds and tons of bullets. Bullets sell well at general stores.
Hint: You need 90 traps to recover Spoiler King's traps. Jackknife and Trapper's Belt can help.
60 in Persuasion is enough to pass many checks in this game and all checks i wanted to pass. There's one 110 check in DC but it only allows to skip a fight that is easy for this build anyway.
Mercantile synergises nicely with Persuasion and fits name of this build very well. With skill level of 106 Religious Faction's shop starts to sell great chemical pistol parts or not really, it looks like i was mistaken for some reason. I raised Persuasion and lowered Mercantile.
**With certain +1 WIL robe we can pass 75 Persuasion checks. One is in the Institute and one in Ninja HQ.
Feats:
Aimed Shot - Our bread and butter ability. Needed for Sharpshooter.
Opportunist - There will be many... opportunities to use it coming from traps, taser, cryogun/acidgun/shockgun, crawler poison, net.
Nimble - Good for our sneak and movement points. We can even get some extra dodge/evasion from tabi boots.
Quick Tinkering - Good active defense, great vs melee. Helps enabling Opportunist.
Ambush! - Crucial feat for our primary tactics.
Mad Chemist - Mandatory for cryogun - 2 turns of iceblock are MUCH better than 1. Increases DOT damage for 2 other guns which is nice for acid and very good for pyro.
Cooked Shot - AoE and reasonable cooldown, good stuff. Great for hitting hard to hit enemies, especially those new beetles.
Power Management - Crucial feat for our defense as it buffs energy shields. We need defense badly. Will also make reloading your EW more managable.
Critical Power - Crucial feat for our primary tactics.
Practical Physicist - Useful for all energy guns that we are going to use.
High-Technicalities - Let's make use of our high INT.
Sharpshooter - Same as Practical Physicist but includes all chemguns as well.
Other considered feats:
Skinner - To craft some badass leather armors. Skip if you prefer regen tac vests but leather armors is what i recommend.
Grenadier - We can make good use of this one. Works good with Quick Pockets and Three Pointer but we're starved for feats. It's still good on its own, probably my pick.
Quick Pockets - We can certainly make use of extra utility slot and reduced cost of switching weapons. Handy, but second tier.
Three Pointer - Works with incendiary nades too but it's mostly for 1HKO from frag/HE.
Point Shot - Smart plasma pistol's best friend but this build is more about default attacks with laser and accuracy drop with range is not good for us making this feat a second tier.
Execute - Good feat and we have options to make it work but short range is bad for this build. Second tier.
Kneecap Shot - Bleed from energy/chem guns is immersion breaking. Also i'd take Point Shot and Execute before this one.
Steadfast Aim - It's now bad for laser and we have no spare points for STR.
Recklessness - Good for energy pistols if our primary tactics does not work (rarely happens) but in those cases we'll use chemguns and Aimed Shot from energy pistols.
Pack Rathound - Useful for someone with 3 STR and traps in his backpack. But with speedhack i've managed without it. Once i got infused pig boots i was doing just fine.
This build is feat starved due to using both energy and chemical pistols.
Items:
Our weapon of choice is Amplified Laser Pistol, others will be Amplified Electroshock, three chemicals and perhaps Smart Plasma. Of course we will be using SMGs early game because they just roflstomp pistols that much. We'll be using chem pistols once we'll craft them at Junkyard. SMGs will still be used due to fast attacks, burst and plentiful ammo. Laser's range is good for getting benefit of Sharpshooter and precision bonus is unique among many weapon types. It's not always the best choice tho, shockgun will be better vs clustered groups or energy resistant enemies like Spoilerless or metal armor dudes.
Our default armor is Infused Pig Leather Armor (high density padding) + Boots. On lvl 20 it adds about 170 HP ... to our 230. It's like jumping from CON 3 to CON 8. It's sick for a glass canon like us. +30 carry helps a lot. Before that it will be steathy regen tact vest and ninja tabi.
Other suit of armor is infused siphoner torso+tabi for fire and acid resist and dodge/evasion. We didin't raise dodge nor evasion but this bonus seems to be doing something.
For exploration we'll use trapper's belt. It's also good for placing traps. For combat it's gonna be either groin guard or doctor's pouch for tougher encounter. Once i crafted my pig armor i discarded groin guard. When using chemical pistols you really want those new belts, at least advanced one. Sadly they don't add utility slots.
Seeker Goggles by default. Smart Goggles recently lost some of its value, but you can keep a pair for brutal Aimed Shot alpha strikes. Smart will be used for SMG burst untils you stop using them.
How to play:
Use your stealth to start combat on your own terms, use bear traps to disable melee and hide behind a corner to avoid getting attacked.
Use out of combat gas granades for encounters you can't win otherwise. More on that later. With Quick Tinkering you can place mines right under enemy noses. You can also throw various things at your enemies, nets can be really helpful. Eat eel sandwiches if they grant you extra attacks.
Strategy 1: Ambuscade! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hEIzls7qPc)
Stay in shadow and Ambush! enemies who are 'enlightened'. If they are not then throw a molotov and make them! I can't stress enough how much i love this feature of molotovs. Underrail rocks for allowing creative gameplay like this. This is why laser rules: your range allows you to ambush enemies at the other side of fire zone, you also don't need to move much and will get Sharpshooter bonus more often.
Ambush is rather tricky. Sometimes it wont work where you think it should. Sometimes it's the opposite. But incendiary nades were pretty consistent at enabling it, contrary to flares and pyrogun. Eat hopper steaks unless you're eating eel sandwiches for attack speed.
Stealth threshold for Ambush feat:
- 150: +65% crit chance, with good Seekers and Focus Stim we will cap,
- 200: +80% crit chance, we will cap with either Stim or Seekers, this is our target value,
- 250: +95% crit chance, possible with stealth gear and probably with very best combat gear crafted with DC components.
Recklessness is worth about 23 stealth. If we decide to take this feat we'll cap crit chance with best pre-DC combat gear.
Strategy 2: Chemical pistols
Use chemical pistols and catalyzing belts. Acid + fire is a good combo. Melee gets raped by acid entaglement, shield emitters are mostly bypassed and Opportunist is easily enabled. Entagled enemies can be treated with pyrogun - if they catch fire they won't run away, will probably die from DOTs and maybe even enable ambush for you :D Fun!
Acid + cryo isn't bad either, many human enemies are immune to burning. Remember that pyro and cryo pistols cancel each other's effects (except belt debuffs).
When fighting robots equip acid and some energy gun.
When fighting Goliathi equip zapgun and pyrogun. Start combat with zapgun Aimed Shot to kill at least one. Cooked Shot bypasses Mirror Image and burning makes them run away.
Strategy 3: Gas cheese
Place yourself out of enemy vision range, enter stealth, enter combat aim your gas nade at closest enemy (or a tile not further than closest enemy), step back, end combat.
If it does not work choose a tile closer to you.
Use cont. granades if you don't care about looting health hypo (and you shouldn't since you can craft them) or ice granade if you do (in that case you need to make killing yourself but Hypotermia and iceblock make it much easier).
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2. Stealth threshold for Ambush feat:
- 150: +65% crit chance, with good Seekers and Focus Stim we will cap,
- 200: +80% crit chance, we will cap with either Stim or Seekers, this is our target value,
- 250: +95% crit chance, possible with stealth gear and probably with very best combat gear crafted with DC components.
Recklessness is worth about 23 stealth. With this feat we will cap crit chance with best pre-DC combat gear.
Is ambush scaling with effective stealth or with "stealth skill points" like the description suggest ?
I thought it was the latest.
EDIT : After some testing it seems to take into account the effective skill as you said.
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My
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQUPAwMKAwfChwAAAAAAwodVMgAAc3NzX3MAAAB4AAAoASY6WikzEUsxVsKRXQ
The last feat you can chose, because I can't :D that's a feat fever! We demand expansion and 30 levels!
PS Hm... hilf your build is actually better. If you really can more or less reliable proc Ambush and get rid from Steadfast Aim - 5 Str is still too high cost - then it's better!
I will play your buld, but on Dominating. )))))))))))))))))))))))))
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@hilf - solid build but I would make the following changes:
1. skip skinner - with the recent nerf to top end infused leather skinner is not worth it. Some numbers using Q166 (you won't be able to get quality this high on ver 1.0.3) infused pig leather:
Armor + tabi w/ skinner:
Mech: 49%/13
Health increase by 124
MP +44
M speed +36%
dodge+evasion +64
Fortitude +39
Armor + tabi w/o skinner:
Mech: 44%/11
Health increase by 108
MP +38
M speed +31%
dodge+evasion +54
Fortitude +36
As you can see, Mech 5%/2, heath +16, MP +6, M speed +5%, dodge+evasion +10 and Fortitude +3 doesn't justify getting skinner. I would get Three-pointer instead.
2. Get grenadier much earlier, possibly at level 12 swapping places w/ power management. Combine w/ three-pointer and high level grenades you get battlefield control (fire) or very good damage (frag/HE) every two turns.
Edited: Gas cheese no longer works on ver 1.0.3, at least on dominating difficulty. I remember trying to gas that brown guy at Core City dock that always get in my way but npc will all turn hostile if damage by toxic/cryo gas.
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I will play your buld, but on Dominating. )))))))))))))))))))))))))
You must be crazy... crazy good i mean! Thank you and good luck, i'm really interested in your progress.
Hopefully you'll have pyro pistol before engaging Goliathi.
I imagine Greater Coil Spider being major pain in the ass. Pyro is great vs them as well.
@destroyer
You might be right about Three-pointer and Grenadier. If i were as brave as Fenix and playing on DOMINATING i'd certainly take them and relatively early.
Pushing PM to higher level might work. I wanted it earlier for reloading my Smart Amplified guns. And while shockgun needs to have those mods laser may work with Efficient Amplified - most of its attacks will not be special or none at all since Aimed Shot is better done with electro pistol. Sure sometimes i use Aimed Shot with Laser but with so many attacks Smart Module will give relatively little. We can still craft Smart Amplified lasers once we get PM.
With high quality for infused leather being much harder to get Skinner is theoretically more valuable than before. I'd gladly accept any extra movement points because my AGI sucks. Stacking mechanical resist has increasing gains and it's possible to get to 55% mech resist with pig armor (solidly padded) and standard boots. This value gets serious vs xbows and melee.
Not to say there are no better/equally good perks to take.
I must say i didn't properly evaluated Skinner's value for new version. On my previous build i was using XAL-001 so Skinner was essential. Now, when XAL is no longer an option Skinner is certainly less valuable. Since it is not an essential feat it could indeed be replaced with something else.
Gas cheese does not work in controlled zones.
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PM?
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PM?
Power Management.
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What do you think of going with 8 perception instead and maxing out intelligence over dex to abuse the bonus damage from high point technicalities? With 8 int you get a total of 24% bonus damage from energy pistols, but with 16 you end up getting a total of 88% bonus damage from them. I think with this you can end up getting more damage out of electroshock and laser pistols. but you'd only be able to use your plasma pistol once per turn.
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What do you think of going with 8 perception instead and maxing out intelligence over dex to abuse the bonus damage from high point technicalities? With 8 int you get a total of 24% bonus damage from energy pistols, but with 16 you end up getting a total of 88% bonus damage from them. I think with this you can end up getting more damage out of electroshock and laser pistols. but you'd only be able to use your plasma pistol once per turn.
It could work.
With INT so high you would save a lot of skill points on INT related skills. Those point would go to DEX skills and there would be some left.
You can go with 10 DEX. With +1 from food and adv. catalyzing belt chem pistols will cost 16 AP.
Another option is to drop chemical pistols since they don't benefit from High Technicalities and are really good with max DEX. This also means 2 feats are freed.
Remember there are crit immune enemies (also on critical path) - chem pistols work better against them than energo.
Surprisingly, damage difference between PER and INT is not that big. Nerd Commando did comparison on RPG Codex:
The math is simple - 10-16 is 242.1% of base damage X 1.88 technicalities modifier =455.14 in total. 13-13 is 266.6 base damage x 1.64 technicalities = 437.224. That's 4% difference. As long as there's, like, 4% accuracy difference between these two setups, perception is in the win.
Surprisingly, THC from PER is not too big either. I did some tests:
6 perception, 125(146) guns = 78% chance to hit
11 perception, 125(199) guns = 79% chance to hit
My target was Plasma Sentry. I did another test, same setup but with flare and result was again 1% point.
I'd rather keep 10 PER and Sharpshooter. On Hard difficulty i do not complain about damage from my laser/electro. Crit damage, because it's what matters for those pistols. New plasma might be able to kill with non-critical special attacks, but i didn't test it.
Shooting plasma twice isn't too important for my build, it's just a bonus you get for maxing DEX.
Nerd Commando should know more about high INT/PER build, he even made a video, i linked it here:
http://underrail.com/forums/index.php?topic=1490.msg17986#msg17986
Sadly this video does not show true power of his build because it lacks a number of things, fo example energy emitter and night vision googles.
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I see high technicalities more as a way to somewhat compensate me for investing 7 points in Int for those crafting feats, not as something i would create a build around. And as that, it's a pretty decent feat.
Maybe when specializations will be introduced and there will be one for increasing damage further, it would be somewhat worthwhile.
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I see high technicalities more as a way to somewhat compensate me for investing 7 points in Int for those crafting feats, not as something i would create a build around. And as that, it's a pretty decent feat.
Maybe when specializations will be introduced and there will be one for increasing damage further, it would be somewhat worthwhile.
Completely agree.
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Surprisingly, damage difference between PER and INT is not that big. Nerd Commando did comparison on RPG Codex:
The math is simple - 10-16 is 242.1% of base damage X 1.88 technicalities modifier =455.14 in total. 13-13 is 266.6 base damage x 1.64 technicalities = 437.224. That's 4% difference. As long as there's, like, 4% accuracy difference between these two setups, perception is in the win.
Surprisingly, THC from PER is not too big either. I did some tests:
6 perception, 125(146) guns = 78% chance to hit
11 perception, 125(199) guns = 79% chance to hit
My target was Plasma Sentry. I did another test, same setup but with flare and result was again 1% point.
I'd rather keep 10 PER and Sharpshooter. On Hard difficulty i do not complain about damage from my laser/electro. Crit damage, because it's what matters for those pistols. New plasma might be able to kill with non-critical special attacks, but i didn't test it.
Been meaning to ask you about the PER accuracy test - what weapon did you use and at what range? The reason I ask is because I always thought PER greatly increase your accuracy when not at your weapons' optimal range.
I also like to note a non-crit plasma shot is nothing special; it certainly won't help you against crit immune enemies.
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I'd like to know that as well, since a 53-point difference in effective skill level should be pretty significant.
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I don't remember but most likely it was a chemical pistols fired from outside of its optimal range.
Same difference when range is optimal.
With laser it's still 1% point difference, regardless of range.
BTW i changed values of Persuasion and Mercantile in my build. Getting 106 Merc to unlock extra items in Hanna's shop wasn't really worth it.
There are great quality collectors in Fort Apology's shop and you don't even need Mercantile to buy them.
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Btw, you have better chance-to-hit when you are in stealth and target doesn't ee you right?
Or it is something I imagined?
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Btw, you have better chance-to-hit when you are in stealth and target doesn't ee you right?
Or it is something I imagined?
Stealthed melee ignore target's dodge.
I did some tests with Electroshock pistol. In this scenario:
Y__E_E_E
(Y - You, E - enemy)
You can safely shoot first enemy. Projectile will jump to either 2nd or 3rd enemy.
Looks like projectile will not jump back if there are 2 tiles between targets. It can however jump forward at this distance.
It seems that projectile prefers to jump forward rather than backward.
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im using this for the most versatility. allows just about every perk that worth taking. maximum benefit to base vrs skills. no stealth, no dodge, or evasion(although might try later on another run). add 1 per 5 dex later. currently i start combat with a molotov/net the burner. then aimed smart electroshock. wearing bladed boots, taking kneecap, vile weaponry, dirty kick, 3 pointer, grenadier. aimed shot, critical power ofc. with this base can do about anything.
early i use smart crafted electroshock and a 9mm neo luger or 9mm hammerer (xm ls)
with nets, taser, kneecap, electroshock, crit grenades/smart energy/electroshock pistol. opportunist becomes ridiculous.
seeing smart electroshock bounce--while they are burning, bleeding, and infected is truly satisfying ^^
steadfast aim is a must for high ap pistols otherwise u will be left wanting.
5 str
8 dex
7 agi
3 con
7 per
3 will
7 int
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Sorry for the necro but wanted to say I just cleared a DOMINATING run with energy/chem pistols and because I've never used energy pistols before I looked at your build heavily for inspiration, so thank you for this thread.
This was my final build: http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQMQAwMKAwjChx4AAADCh8KHWgAANzJlXFhaAAAAAABPGmwxJAEwJhZWwpECM0tawppZ
It starts off very reliant on chem pistol and their sweet, sweet CC options but once your crafting skills are decent and the crit feats are in place (as well as having access to all tiers of Coretech's amazing electronic shop) energy pistols become an absolute monster, two shotting boss characters even with their bloated health pool.
With the feats revealed on the build creator yesterday I can only fantasize about how insane an Expedition energy pistol character would be with Increased Perception + Scrutinous + specialization points for further crit damage bonus.
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You're welcome !melf.
I've updated this build for Expedition. I kept expansion spoilers low.
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First thanks for the build. From all i seen this one looks the most fun for first run on hard.
I was just curious if it's possible to throw +3 STR for better armor usage and some extra carry weight removing 2 points from PER maybe and that one (semi useless?) from INT.
I hate carry weight limitations in games and i don't like to be to limited in armor usages. So would this work? Is there a special perk or reason for 10 PER beside more precision with pistol?
Also no Gunslinger with pistol build?
STR 6
DEX 10 (+6)
AGI 3
CON 3
PER 8
WIL 3
INT 7
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Gunslinger is for firearms only (not chemical/energy).
6 strength seems overkill, 5 strength will allow for steadfast aim feat and riot shield if you want, so it's not a complete waste.
Or just pick the pack rathound feat (+50 carry capacity), which is very nice for this build.
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Yeah, for carrying loot Pack Rathound is better than 2-3 points of strength.
10 PER is for Sharpshooter, detecting more secrets without any boosts and since it's a primary combat stat i wanted it to be at decent value.
The only armour STR unlocks is riot gear with shield (metal is out of the question). It's not too good of an armour at the moment, at least not for this build. As Ploluap 5 STR is enough for riot gear + shield but 4 is enough if you make the shield from psi beetle carapace which is the lightest version possible and also helps with psi cost.
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Hi-I see 2 builds listed one has a 2016 date but says updated for Expedition and another from December 2017-which one are you using? Did you adjust from Destroyers comment and in your "a few things I forgot to mention " post that build is that pertaining to I'm trying to go through the thread and got confused as to what comment was for which build listing. Thanks-3 pages of thread I got thoroughly confused sorry
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I'm sorry it confused you. Updated build is in the first post. I put the game version in my builds, the up to date one has version 1.1. I've added an information it is for Expedition.
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Was playing a variation of this build up until level 10 (on hard difficulty) and got kinda fed up with it.
Start:
Str: 3
Dex: 10 (+2)
Agi: 6
Con: 3
Per: 8
Will: 3
Int: 7
After discussing the build options with a few others - I decided I liked the idea of more mobility and having the sprint feat, so I pulled from PER/INT. I also put a few points in Evasion.
I'm regularly getting my ass kicked and I think a lot of that is due to poor feat selection.
1. Aimed Shot
1. Sprint
2. Nimble
4. Grenadier
6. Paranoia
8. Ambush
10. Pack Rathound
I think removing one of Sprint/Nimble, Paranoia, and Pack Rathound for feats like Cooked Shot, Mad Chemist, and Opportunist would have served me better.
I also think maybe I should invest more in Traps, but Quick Tinkering has been nerfed and I'm not sure I want to invest in Psi. I'm also finding this build to have no real room for extra feats.
I'm about to re-roll a new character with some slight changes and I'm still torn on the AGI vs PER/INT debacle. Do you have any thoughts on my stat distribution? I'm concerned about a lack of early game mobility and an overall low initiative score with such low AGI. Although with how feat starved I am maybe foregoing Sprint is the right call. I'm also concerned about having absolutely no Dodge or Evasion.
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I'm also considering more of !melf's approach - which relies less on ambush and more on raw crit chance - but again, finding room for feats like Recklessness is hard work. I played around with ambush a little bit in this current playthrough and it wasn't always the easiest to set up.
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Agi is not so useful - you will have many moving points with good tabi boots anyway. You should start combat out of enemies field of view and out of stealth to still have moving points. I played this build with 3 agi and its perfectly fine. In places where you can't trigger ambush try to use acid and ice pistol combo for a crowd control. Also keep in mind that heavy dex investment will shine in lategame only. QT is still useful out of combat - you can set up minefields right under enemies noses. Using Incendiary pistol and laser pistol for criticals is op, you can deal up to 990% of base damage, one shotting nearly anyone. If you drop tailoring and do a bit min-maxing you will be able to max out evasion and nearly max out dodge if you want. The only real downside for me is the range of pistol, after crossbow build it kinda sucks
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Agi is not so useful - you will have many moving points with good tabi boots anyway. You should start combat out of enemies field of view and out of stealth to still have moving points. I played this build with 3 agi and its perfectly fine. In places where you can't trigger ambush try to use acid and ice pistol combo for a crowd control. Also keep in mind that heavy dex investment will shine in lategame only. QT is still useful out of combat - you can set up minefields right under enemies noses.
Well said.
Sprint in the long run (no pun intended) will be of very little use due to more sources of MPs: Temporal Contraction and Jumping Bean.
QT and traps are important part of this build's survival, especially early game.
It's worth having proper armour for the job. Laminated Riot Gear vs melee, Laminated Tac Vest vs bullets, mutant dog (or siphoner) leather vs mutant dogs and big mutants and there's also an energy shield to craft.
Cooked Shot and Mad Chemist are good, so is pyro pistol. Vs big mutants cryo pistol might be better since they are immune to fear. They still take burn damage tho.
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I have been having a MUCH better time now - largely sticking to your actual build.
You were right about agility. I don't miss sprint - or the extra MP - nearly as much as I thought I would.
Cooked shot is also ridiculously good and makes the chemical pistols infinitely more fun to use.
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I am at another crossroads - however - with regards to evasion. It seems like a worthwhile skill and the tabi/siphoner overcoat I have both add percentages to your dodge/evasion score - this bonus is currently wasted.
It looks like I could get a respectable evasion skill if I forego pickpocket (which I haven't missed - I can craft so many hypos and adrenaline shots as it is) and mercantile.
Mercantile is the big question. I hear mercantile allows you to get better crafting ingredients later on down the line. As far as the basic benefit of mercantile - better prices - it doesn't really matter. I'm swimming in stygian coins. I have 13 points in mercantile now and I'm contemplating leaving it there - marking those as a waste - and pushing towards evasion.
Any thoughts?
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You should have enought points to max evasion and get 105 mercantile with bonuses. Mercantile will help you to get better parts for crafting - it will be faster, because of special offers. At the same time, mercantile can be dropped - you still will be able to get quality parts, but it will take longer.