I hate you all [major spoilers]

[Megaost]

I agree it's possible that it was an effect of the monoliths, although nothing suggests that the non-psi HE staff that interacted with and harvested the pillars developed any kind of psi abilities, with the exception of Wasi Abdul, maybe.
Also remember that Biocorp had no knowledge of the monoliths/pillars, and even Hollow Earth existed for many years before they discovered them. For example psimorphs were created before the discovery, but using shards on them later had many beneficial effects on their development.
It would probably help if we knew whether the monoliths are exclusive to the south, or present in all Underrail.

I seem to recall that there was something about them in Caerus, but I might be entirely mistaken. In any case, thanks for all the lore, I greatly appreciate it! I'm fascinated by it, but I can't remember all of the details yet.

Even more unrelated, but if anyone knows what the abbreviations SAI, SC, and NRS stand for in the game, I would really appreciate the information.

Where do they show up? I swear at least NRS sounds like something I knew what stood for, but like the rest of this, I can't remember the context.

[reinhark]

From Oculus you learn that Anton Matveev was an apex, infamous for unconsented human experiments (Depot A), hideous self-experimentation (mechanical eye, signs of previously undergoing mutation - the pupil of his real eye being dilated, a trademark mutie/mutant trait), worked on Phenotype Dynamics (mutagen research) and also on psimorphs, and of course was a thought controller.
And you also learn that there was this other guy, Kirill Gavrilyuk, who was also an apex, and probably a metathermics user (burnt face), but no mention of a direct link to Anton aside from some joint projects.

Wait, burnt face?

There is only one more immortal, ex-biocorp scientist with burn scar on his face.
Think of junkyard... Come to think of it, this could be considered as a "joint project"

Hmm... I wonder, is Archibald Knight also one of the old biocorp-era weirdos?

He says he used to work for Biocorp Armed Forces. BCAF should have ceased to exist following the Hollow Earth incident almost 200 years ago, right? And everything else seems to point to Praetorian Security being formed from Biocorp Security (reformed Biocorp-era security forces, separate entity from BCAF) after Core City riots just 15 years ago.

Wasn't Archbald Knight chief of security in the core city when Biocorp controlled them? I think I read it upon the history of core city...
If my memory serves me right, he lead the revolt against Biocorp back in the day, just as protectorate made their move on the north.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

If you talk to Abram with the Doctor feat and have talked to the man in Depot A, you can tell Abram about him, and he's floored. I presumed he had an imperfect reaction to whatever diesel Depot A.

[reinhark]

Who? Abram? I don't believe so. At the first glance Wyatt's description on one of two the strange men seems to match Abram (skinny, probably burnt face) but how could Abram be Kirill? He's not even a psionic.

Also, is there any evidence suggesting he's older than average human or directly involved with any of the Biocorps? I always assumed he came into contact with old and diluted form of the Depot A mutagen recently (which could explain why he wasn't completely mutated) when working on his assignment to free Maura.

Certain named psionics do not feature psi bars - such as Six and Dude.
It should also be noted that possible side effect of mutation could involve loss of psi ability... since there are no mutant/mutie psionics.(which I always found strange)

There is no evidence between age of mutagen and intact mind after mutation. It is more likely that mutation effects everyone differently, as Depot still has full fledged mutants even after hundreds of years.... as well as Wyatt.

As he is member of Oculus he is very informed, therefore diverging information he could ONLY know is... impossible, after checking all possible dialogues.(like we did with psimorph)
Except this one line.

Biocorp... ::wheeze:: happened to me. ::He coughs.:: Surely you've seen this before.

[Megaost]

Certain named psionics do not feature psi bars - such as Six and Dude.
It should also be noted that possible side effect of mutation could involve loss of psi ability... since there are no mutant/mutie psionics.(which I always found strange)

For what it's worth: If you turn into a mutant during "Gas the drones" you lose your psi bar.

[abscisin]

In any case, thanks for all the lore, I greatly appreciate it! I'm fascinated by it, but I can't remember all of the details yet.

Keep notes. Lots of notes. History, politics, people, doesn't matter, jot it down. Even if you end up with a list of assistants, assistants of assistants, and all their extended families, at least you won't end up in a situation where you are not sure whether someone was mentioned in a specific source or not that often. I can never remember anything either, but at least this helps me find information faster. And it's a good way to pass time while you backtrack. At least I prefer it over speedhack.

Where do they show up?

Right, I completely forgot about mentioning the context. My bad. Actually they all came from Vasilica's and Dyson's mails.

"You think SAI reports to anyone anymore?"
"Imagine the SAI guys spying on our chat take it a bit too seriously and think you really want to kick my ass. Soon, an armed AF squad might come busting through your door. What do you think of that?"
"If you feel the need to file a complaint against my excruciatingly annoying behavior to SC, NRS or even BCHC"

It's easy to work out from context what these are, just not what they stand for exactly. Like SAI is probably something like security, surveillance, security assessment, information, intelligence, etc. But then again it might also be something completely different.

This is getting a bit meta, but that possibility is actually taken into account.

Aw yiss. I already know that the Faceless won't give you the medallion a second time if you already have it, but since I've already seen the Cube in the Research Lab, I was not sure if this was going to get resolved or I'm in for a glitch fest. So is one of them just going to go poof once Tchort is dead? Merge in the inventory? Turn into mushroom brew?

Either way, I just enjoy my pointless childish rebellion against Six. He had it coming. How can he say with a straight face that there is no way out of DC besides killing Tchort when there are not one, not two, but four tunnelers lying around, one right there behind the gate he is pointing at, is just simply beyond me. And then he gets to act all "I told you" because you can't interact with any of them.

I always assumed he came into contact with old and diluted form of the Depot A mutagen recently (which could explain why he wasn't completely mutated) when working on his assignment to free Maura.

I don't think so.
"Biocorp... ::wheeze:: happened to me. ::He coughs.:: Surely you've seen this before. Probably shot... ::wheeze:: a couple of other poor bastards... ::wheeze:: during your little excursion into Old... ::He coughs.:: ...Old Junkyard. Do no fret. ::He wheezes.:: They were no friends of mine... ::wheeze:: not since they were no longer... ::wheeze:: themselves."
If he knew those people then it can't have happened recently. He was probably just a poor sod living in Depot A at the time, completely unrelated to Biocorp or Oculus.

It's not like he is the only one who managed to more or less retain his sanity. Juke, Doubletap, Twitch (the other Twitch), and their unnamed mutie friends were all from the Depot A stock before they packed up and moved to the Core City Sewers. And they seemed pretty sane as far as muties go.

On the rest I agree with reinhark. Again the only maybe exception I can think of is Wasi, as he mentioned some accident that happened to him at the Mutagen Tanks before his doppleganger problems started.

Yes, he was. According to his own words he was  *BCAF* chief of security. That's the military of the *original* Biocorp that ceased to exist almost 200 years ago! It would make sense if he was talking about Biocorp Security Forces, which were established along with *reformed* Biocorp some 50-100 years ago and remained in place until the Protectorate's Dis takeover and the Core City riots.

And according to Oculus he was second-in-command in the Core City Security Forces. Maybe it's just a mistake. In the dialogue where he mentions BCAF he also says the player character seems too young to remember Biocorp. And although one could write a book about the many ways of life extension in the Underrail universe, I do not think he was talking about Old Biocorp here.

Anyway, there are other chronological problems, pardon, "timelapse vertigoes" in relation with BCAF.

In the Original Report Eidein writes that he was selected by apex technocrats "many years after" Hollow Earth because "Biocorp desired this expedition in hopes of at least slowing down its decline which started years ago and wasn't about to stop". He spent around three weeks down there, after which he took over the University and founded the Institute. So this happened exactly 100 years ago, which makes no sense for either Old or New Biocorp.

But the timeline also says that in year 5 BCAF was renamed to Preservation. So yeah. Something here does not add up.

[reinhark]

"Biocorp... ::wheeze:: happened to me. ::He coughs.:: Surely you've seen this before. Probably shot... ::wheeze:: a couple of other poor bastards... ::wheeze:: during your little excursion into Old... ::He coughs.:: ...Old Junkyard. Do no fret. ::He wheezes.:: They were no friends of mine... ::wheeze:: not since they were no longer... ::wheeze:: themselves."
If he knew those people then it can't have happened recently. He was probably just a poor sod living in Depot A at the time, completely unrelated to Biocorp or Oculus.

Interesting. I stand corrected.

Then let me expand suspects little further...

[Hal900x]

Glad I provoked such an interesting discussion. I appreciate all of the insights. Personally, I think a lot of the storyline is a case of what I like to call the "Lost" syndrome. I never saw it myself, but I was a huge fan of many series written in the same way. That being, the writers didn't actually know themselves what was going on. They wrote it as they went, and left the viewers to come up with all the interesting connections, theories and so forth.

[TΛPETRVE]

Well, that is the Dark Souls method for you . The massive cliffhanger is very irksome, but I'd say the primary conclusion for the game was always the finding that the entire Underrail system is really just a big fucking ant farm. Kinda like the world in Harlan Ellison's I have no Mouth and I must scream, only with the remnants of a power-mad corporation instead of a nigh-omnipotent, envious Machine God fiddling with your every step. Styg always said the game would focus on the different factions of Underrail and their political machinations, and that's exactly what it ultimately does. With that out of the way, the story can now move on to the bigger picture.

[abscisin]

but I expect tchortist documents to be artistic works of fiction and falsehood.

In this case what the Original Report said has some support, though. Since we established Abram already lived at the time of the Depot A incident, he should know whether there was or wasn't a Biocorp 100 years ago. And he confirms a few bits: that Eidein was a Biocorp scientist, that he created the Institute exactly 100 years ago, and that he did so by taking over the still functioning Biocorp University. This much should be true, as Abram doesn't like to mix up facts with speculation.

And if this is true, I don't see why the part about the technocrats and BCAF would be a lie. But yeah, if BCAF and BSF are interchangeable, that explains it somewhat, especially since New Biocorp kept the technocrat title too. But mainly because of the time of Depot A and the talk about wanting to slow the decline of Biocorp I'm not really convinced.

Although you are right, "Civil wars erupted all over Underrail and Biocorp dissolved into many small factions. Many technocrats, and scientists and engineers died in the following years. Biocorp was no more." and "Biocorp had only begun to recuperate from the damage it suffered during the split when technocrats called me into their office." does seem to imply that parts of Biocorp might have survived the "death", even keeping their name and rank.

Yes, I think I was wrong. Maybe there is no contradiction after all.

Hmm, all this made me ponder the history of SGS.
IRIS mentions the three elevators lead to Biocorp University (Institute of Tchort), Lower Underrail (Hanging Rat) and BCAF installation S-8 (near SGS). So SGS used to be a Biocorp military installation... well, no big surprise there.

SGS being a BCAF station is a known fact, Harold tells you as much in the battery quest when he explains that the station refuses to work with anything but optoelectric nuclear batteries. Although I suspect S-8 actually included both the Alpha and Omega stations, not just the former.
In which case it used to be ridiculously huge.

Interesting, though, isn't it? They had three elevators leading to Hollow Earth. One in their primary research and education center, one in the largest military base of the south... and one in the middle of bumfuck nowhere. Unless they knew about Oculus.

...hey, maybe SAI was Oculus. Vasilica did imply that even before Hollow Earth SAI was already in the process of going rogue ("You think SAI reports to anyone anymore?"). And it would explain why Dude knows about the "all-seeing eye". Or maybe I'm just reaching.

I wish SGS library had some consoles where you could learn a bit about the station's (recent) history...

Yeah, about that...


Never going to happen. And once again Biocorp is to blame.

[reinhark]

Interesting, though, isn't it? They had three elevators leading to Hollow Earth. One in their primary research and education center, one in the largest military base of the south... and one in the middle of bumfuck nowhere. Unless they knew about Oculus.

...hey, maybe SAI was Oculus. Vasilica did imply that even before Hollow Earth SAI was already in the process of going rogue ("You think SAI reports to anyone anymore?"). And it would explain why Dude knows about the "all-seeing eye". Or maybe I'm just reaching.

It's a possibility. But it could also be nothing more than an access point for the lower metro network. The south elevator is also few steps away from the station proper. Whatever the case, Oculus wasn't *built* by Biocorp, since the psionic monoliths are not their doing and its physical structure is decidedly alien compared to all known Biocorp facilities.

Still, you must have reason suspect that *something* is strange about oculus itself.(I mean the structure)
First, why isn't it under the possession of the Godman in the first place?
They probably wouldn't want their technology to fall to the wrong hands.

Second, The elevator.
Location of the elevator, to be exact. Supply line? Maybe. Except there is shorter supply line route directly in the university, near the core city - which was suppose to be center of the biocorp.
It is as if Oculus was suppose to be only accessible from Hollowed Earth...

Lastly, I did talk about Biocorp finding alien relics and possibly alien corpse - which was probably product of crash or progression of ongoing of supposed *disease*. It is more likely that Biocorp have stumbled into Oculus down while they were searching for the alien artifacts, rather than random scavengers found it.

Which brings up the Azif's origin... Biocorp is most likely. It also explains why he wants that project result from Wit Nosek.

Edit: It should also be noted that oculus is the only elevator spot where obvious Biocorp structure isn't nearby.

[Megaost]

I don't agree that Azif's motivation for finding Wit Nosek points towards him being biocorp. There is way too many reasons for a man working at an intelligence gathering organization, in the current climate, assisting Six, to want information about biocorp projects.

For all we know it could be Six's idea, to learn more about what process was used to create Tchort.

[reinhark]

I don't agree that Azif's motivation for finding Wit Nosek points towards him being biocorp. There is way too many reasons for a man working at an intelligence gathering organization, in the current climate, assisting Six, to want information about biocorp projects.

For all we know it could be Six's idea, to learn more about what process was used to create Tchort.

Six should already know, or Six should already know who to ask: Faceless. Afterall, he even told us for being an ally.
Furthermore Six wouldn't even know how Wit Nosek and Tchort are related. If Six would've contacted Faceless (which should've been a first people to ask, if you ask me) it becomes obvious that Tchort is product of "Project Dynamics" - AKA mutagen research.

Wit Nosek's research only involved "Project Ark"  - immortality research. Something Six definitely already have and don't need another one for.

[Megaost]

I don't agree that Azif's motivation for finding Wit Nosek points towards him being biocorp. There is way too many reasons for a man working at an intelligence gathering organization, in the current climate, assisting Six, to want information about biocorp projects.

For all we know it could be Six's idea, to learn more about what process was used to create Tchort.

Six should already know, or Six should already know who to ask: Faceless. Afterall, he even told us for being an ally.
Furthermore Six wouldn't even know how Wit Nosek and Tchort are related. If Six would've contacted Faceless (which should've been a first people to ask, if you ask me) it becomes obvious that Tchort is product of "Project Dynamics" - AKA mutagen research.

Wit Nosek's research only involved "Project Ark"  - immortality research. Something Six definitely already have and don't need another one for.

Alright, so we scrap the Six part. I still don't see how this points towards Azif being biocorp.

[reinhark]

I don't agree that Azif's motivation for finding Wit Nosek points towards him being biocorp. There is way too many reasons for a man working at an intelligence gathering organization, in the current climate, assisting Six, to want information about biocorp projects.

For all we know it could be Six's idea, to learn more about what process was used to create Tchort.

Six should already know, or Six should already know who to ask: Faceless. Afterall, he even told us for being an ally.
Furthermore Six wouldn't even know how Wit Nosek and Tchort are related. If Six would've contacted Faceless (which should've been a first people to ask, if you ask me) it becomes obvious that Tchort is product of "Project Dynamics" - AKA mutagen research.

Wit Nosek's research only involved "Project Ark"  - immortality research. Something Six definitely already have and don't need another one for.

Alright, so we scrap the Six part. I still don't see how this points towards Azif being biocorp.

I am only talking about Azif's origins. Biocorp has fallen and it is possible that Azif have betrayed Biocorp during the whole hollowed earth incident.
I am implying that Azif may be ex-apex technocrat and immortal based on:
1. Somehow owning Oculus, assuming that Biocorp found it first.
2. Strange interest towards Biocorp projects, as indicated from the Database collection of Oculus.