Cloaking Device affected by armor penalty?

[Shredded Cheddar]

Hey guys, so the other day I was playing with a certain smg build which utilizes full auto, juggernaut, nimble and a plated black clothed tactical vest. Anyway, I crafted a decent quality cloaking device intending to use it to supplement my limited stealth, however when checking the character sheet and combat stats tabs it seems that the cloaking device bonus to stealth and evasion are affected by armor penalty. I don't really understand why this would be and it seems pretty counter intuitive.

I think that at least the stealth bonus should be unaffected by armor penalty since this is a cloaking device which bends and distorts light. Also, just gameplay-wise building a cloaking device for a character with medium to high armor penalty seems completely worthless, and light armored builds don't usually need the cloaking device in the first place.

[TheAverageGortsby]

Seems reasonable to me.  If your armor makes you clumsy and loud, then you're still clumsy and loud even if you're blurry.

Besides, the real benefit to Cloaking Device is that it lets someone with no investment in stealth get above the instant detection thresholds.  You carry around a stealth set, because it's light, and switch into it for when you need to be all sneeki breeki.  You can get at least 130-140 points of stealth from tabis, armor, and a cloaking device.  If you want to be sneaky, carry six pounds of stealth gear.  Rathound Regalia, early on; infused cave hopper leather later.  It won't break your back, especially if it's your 7STR character.

[Shredded Cheddar]

Thanks for the response, but I need to respectfully disagree with you. For what a cloaking device requires, it simply doesn't do enough. It takes high electronics skill and components, sucks energy quite quickly, and (IMO) most importantly takes up a whole combat utility slot. Anyone with light stealthy armor and ~30 points in stealth has no need for it. It's not like the suggested change would break the game, since characters with high armor penalty wearing armor without black cloth would only get around 50-60 bonus stealth with high quality components. Even if they improved stealth every level it still wouldnt allow them to pass instant detection checks in higher level areas. This change would only really be useful for characters with mid level armor penalty (around 50%) who use black cloth and also have significant points invested into stealth. It would allow those types of characters to be able to pass instant detection checks without having to swap out their armor all the time, but they would by no means be good at stealth.

For example, this character has 6 AGI, ~60 points invested into stealth, black cloth tabi with ~+30 stealth, and a black cloth tac vest with ~+30 stealth and %60 armor penalty. I craft a cloaking device with +42 stealth, and when I activate it I jump from 58 to low 70s (sorry this is all from memory). Would jumping from 58 to 100 be game breaking after investing 100 points in electronics, parts, a high quality energy core, batteries, risk of more EMP damage, and -1 combat utility slot? I don't think so.

Besides, I don't think that the only intention for a cloaking device is to allow people with no stealth investment to reach instant detection thresholds, why wouldn't it be used by those with a moderate armor penalty for the same purpose?

Besides, as it is right now I just don't think the cloaking device is very useful. I think I may have seen it mentioned on forums maybe once.

[TheAverageGortsby]

Thanks for the response, but I need to respectfully disagree with you.
Besides, I don't think that the only intention for a cloaking device is to allow people with no stealth investment to reach instant detection thresholds, why wouldn't it be used by those with a moderate armor penalty for the same purpose?

That, as they say, is what makes horse races   You make some good points.  And I didn't mean to say that the only purpose of it was to clear thresholds, I just meant that was probably the best benefit of its several benefits.

There's a balancing concern, of course.  Already, crafting is so intensely and overwhelmingly powerful that you basically can't justify not using it, from a powergaming perspective.  Letting Cloaking Device bypass the penalties of heavy armor in effect means you can craft away the drawback that comes with using that good armor.  So I suppose a valid question is, do you think that the inconvenience of carrying a stealth set is so great that there should be a bypass available for no opportunity cost (since you invested into Electronics to make yourself a shield, obviously because holy crap are crafted shields amazing)?  I think that swapping items in and out of your quickslots is part of optimizing the game.  And, to be fair, if that 60% armor penalty is bothering you, don't wear a vest with ceramic plates   Seriously.  If you have crafting, use nanocomposite, or burrower shell.  You'll be glad you experimented.

Anyway, you make reasonable points, I guess my primary disagreement is that I think C.D. is more powerful than you think it is.  Nothing saying I'm right ^_^

[Shredded Cheddar]

You make good points as well. Yes, it is true that crafting is very powerful, but only certain aspects of crafting are powerful. For example unless riot gear gets changed somehow it will always be shit compared to a different type of armor with similar quality components. Does anyone use riot gear
I hate having cool things in the game go to waste. In my opinion the cloaking device is one of those things. It is similar to how certain ~optimized~ builds are significantly weaker than others right now. For example, Pistols (all types) and knives both seem very weak right now. I make a pistol crit fisher build, I eat rathound bbq and equip shitty marauder rifle, wow this character is strong now. Or, why would I invest all these stat points to make a cool energy weapons build when you can use half the stat points to make a much deadlier build?

I think that my suggested change would make the cloaking device an actual useful item that people may incorporate into their build plan, but as it is I don't think anyone does.