Author Topic: Protectorate vs Free Drones from RP perspective? (Spoilers)  (Read 15000 times)

Kartik100

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Protectorate vs Free Drones from RP perspective? (Spoilers)
« on: December 28, 2019, 02:47:39 pm »
Hey guys, I'm new here. This is basically my first topic, so sorry if it's in the wrong board. Couldn't figure out whether this fits in General or Discussions. I'll delete it and repost on the right one if this isn't the place.

So anyway, I really, really love this game. I'm completely hooked onto the world, setting, factions etc. I'm also heavily into RP which is one of the main reasons I play CRPGs like Underrail. This time I'm playing as a down-to-earth psion who values a safe place to call home above all, and generally tries to avoid bloodshed even when it is disadvantageous to her (e.g. Paying the guy's debt in Junkyard out of her own pockets just to avoid having to kill him or that other slum girl).

It's been a fun ride so far but then I went to Rail Crossing and discovered the Train Heist quest, and as I was lost on what to do I ended up looking it up on the wiki which led me down to a rabbit hole reading up on the merits and demerits of the Protectorate and the Free Drones. So from what I understand - it's a twist where the FD seem like psychotic terrorists at first, stealing the supplies of Rail Crossing just to prevent a Protectorate foothold from forming there, but in the end the Protectorate turn out to be the true evil by performing vicious experiments on the FD and turning them into mutants.

This sort of leaves me into a dilemma as a player - I know my character wouldn't just run into the train robbers and go "I didn't see anything", and I also know my character who values security and stability would be drawn to support the Protectorate in the matter. But because of this meta knowledge that I now have, I also know my character would never go through with the final objective of the Protectorate questline. Is it not possible to do the Protectorate quests up to that point and then just go "fuck you, I resign"? Or even a way to join the FD (if they're really better than what you see in the Train Heist quest) without turning a blind eye to the robbery?

I guess what I'm asking in simple terms is - What would a Lawful Good character be doing here - stuck between these two factions that are apparently Chaotic Good (although in character I wouldn't know here that the FD is Good) and Lawful Evil (again, in character I wouldn't know that the Protectorate is Evil).

harperfan7

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Re: Protectorate vs Free Drones from RP perspective? (Spoilers)
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2019, 02:53:10 pm »
You can't join one and then switch. 

A lawful good character likely wouldn't join either of them.  Protectorate is LN at best, free drones are NG at the most.  There are plenty of hints before joining either that the protectorate isn't "good" (in the D&D sense).  There's enough exp in the game several times over to hit max level without either questline.   
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MirddinEmris

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Re: Protectorate vs Free Drones from RP perspective? (Spoilers)
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2019, 02:57:26 pm »
I think the best choice RP wise in this case is to retrieve train without violnce if possible (persuade option) and then not to be involved in this questline any further. It's basically terrorists vs opressive government, neither side would be appeling much to a such character, since both would require you to get your hands pretty deep in blood.

Kartik100

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Re: Protectorate vs Free Drones from RP perspective? (Spoilers)
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2019, 11:34:08 am »
Yeah, I guess I'll just be ignoring this questline. I hope they add options for betraying/leaving factions in Underrail 2. Tyranny had this feature and it was great.

destroyor

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Re: Protectorate vs Free Drones from RP perspective? (Spoilers)
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2019, 08:48:12 pm »
My personal take on this is you need to pick the lesser of two evils.

I don't see how you can consider Free Drones to be "good" as they do not care for the people. As seen in the train heist quest all Free Drones care about is to overthrown the Protectorate, collateral Damage be damn (Rail Crossing desperately needs help but fuck them right?). They attacked and maimed unarmed civilian like Anastasia just because they are "Protectorate". If you join FD you can talk to Darling and see that Protectorate is an oppressive regime - if you are view as against the Protectorate they'll make you disappear, by any means necessary. The ironic fact is that FD employ a similar view and method of operation too. If you ask people about Free Drone in the game they'll tell you FD is also "if you are not with us you are against us" and fuck you up when given the chance.

Of course Protectorate is no angel, but at least the ground troops take care of the people. They provided food for the poor in Junkyard. They at least provide a measure of security against external threat such as Lurker, bandits, etc for their population (prime example - Rail Crossing ending slide). If you join Protectorate you can talk to Holloway and tell he (and soldiers under him) actually care and wanted to protect the people. However it should be noted soldiers like Holloway are not in charge and does not reflect the view of the higher up. Holloway was forced to turn rogue because the higher up view people of South Underrail as second class citizen at best and dogs at worst. All General Melek seems to care about is hold on to power and condone evil method employed by the Chemical Assault Unit. Lower ranks and ground troops - LG, higher ups - LE.

If your character truly care and want to help the general population of South Underrail I think the most RP fitting role would be joining Protectorate, listen to Holloway's story, persuade Colonel Cathcart to investigate Holloway's claims. Don't do the quest for Chemical Assault Unit. Head-cannon try to rise in rank and affect changes from within Protectorate and maybe try to aim for a certain degree of autonomy for South Underrail force from North Underrail, focusing your effort more on helping people (aids to poor + killing lurkers, bandits, etc) and less about helping the North expanding and holding onto power.

Of course if you think your char should just not get involved at all that's another option too.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 09:21:53 pm by destroyor »

Kartik100

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Re: Protectorate vs Free Drones from RP perspective? (Spoilers)
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2019, 09:24:38 am »
My personal take on this is you need to pick the lesser of two evils.

I don't see how you can consider Free Drones to be "good" as they do not care for the people. As seen in the train heist quest all Free Drones care about is to overthrown the Protectorate, collateral Damage be damn (Rail Crossing desperately needs help but fuck them right?). They attacked and maimed unarmed civilian like Anastasia just because they are "Protectorate". If you join FD you can talk to Darling and see that Protectorate is an oppressive regime - if you are view as against the Protectorate they'll make you disappear, by any means necessary. The ironic fact is that FD employ a similar view and method of operation too. If you ask people about Free Drone in the game they'll tell you FD is also "if you are not with us you are against us" and fuck you up when given the chance.

Of course Protectorate is no angel, but at least the ground troops take care of the people. They provided food for the poor in Junkyard. They at least provide a measure of security against external threat such as Lurker, bandits, etc for their population (prime example - Rail Crossing ending slide). If you join Protectorate you can talk to Holloway and tell he (and soldiers under him) actually care and wanted to protect the people. However it should be noted soldiers like Holloway are not in charge and does not reflect the view of the higher up. Holloway was forced to turn rogue because the higher up view people of South Underrail as second class citizen at best and dogs at worst. All General Melek seems to care about is hold on to power and condone evil method employed by the Chemical Assault Unit. Lower ranks and ground troops - LG, higher ups - LE.

If your character truly care and want to help the general population of South Underrail I think the most RP fitting role would be joining Protectorate, listen to Holloway's story, persuade Colonel Cathcart to investigate Holloway's claims. Don't do the quest for Chemical Assault Unit. Head-cannon try to rise in rank and affect changes from within Protectorate and maybe try to aim for a certain degree of autonomy for South Underrail force from North Underrail, focusing your effort more on helping people (aids to poor + killing lurkers, bandits, etc) and less about helping the North expanding and holding onto power.

Of course if you think your char should just not get involved at all that's another option too.

I do like the "change the system from within" approach. That's what I did on my Tyranny Disfavored playthrough. And yeah, I'm not at all impressed by the Free Drones - it's yet another video game anarchist group that's all "down with the authority" and is totally sure that they wouldn't be making compromises or making tough decisions if they were in charge. Ultimately I do think the region needs one strong governing body for lasting stability. "Allied" independent stations can easily turn on each unpredictably - look at Omega.

So basically the Protectorate does make sense to me, it's just that whole chemical warfare bit that makes me squeamish.You said "don't do the quest for the Chemical Assault Unit". Is it possible to turn it down? I was under the impression that you're railroaded into following orders from the moment you join. Or do you mean accept the quest but just ignore it? Do the ending slides account for that?

Vokial

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Re: Protectorate vs Free Drones from RP perspective? (Spoilers)
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2019, 11:01:51 am »
Doesn't matter if you quit at the chemical assault-part, just because one person abandons them, that probalby would not stop their plan in the long run. You won't prevent anything, just delay it at best. They will thank you for your cooperation and your work. You were useful.
The way you can aim to actually stop them, is by joining FD. That way you're not just looking the other way when they mutanize the public, but can fight against the idea with all your might. And that would probably better for your conciousness.

Oppressive government is bad and once it stabilized, it's very hard to overthrow it. If robbing the train prevents this or at least slows the process, it's something seemingly evil acted upon basically innocent passangers - in order to avoid an even greater catastrophy that could potentially ruin a lot more lives.
With that said, groups like the FD draws in a lot of anarchistic characters that see this as an oppurtunity to freely act violent and be supported in it. Folks that are only in it to raise hell and would do it in a civilized culture as well. At least here, their energy is channeled towards an even greater enemy of society that is an organized, well oiled, methodic and works very much counciously on the erradication of humanity.
FD higher-ups should be aware that their group is nowhere near as the rebels in Star Wars for example, but more like rejects of society and criminal scum that would never fit into the future what the Protectorate plans for the world (wheter the world likes it or not) and now have refuge and supplies among the FD and a place they feel like they belong. As long as they're happy that is as it would be foolish to completely rely or trust these bunch. Or expect any loyalty from most of them when the tides are turning.

I never met FD yet as I'm still at an early part of the game, but the way I see it, reading these posts, FD is made up of Neutral Evil and Chaotic Neutral characters as their footsoldiers. Chaotic Goods would gladly take justice in their hands and show voilence against evil, but would probalby not be okay with methods that involve harming innocents. While their leaders are probalby True Neutrals that value their independency more than anything and would rather die and sacrifice others then fall under the rule of an oppressing government.

As for the Protectorate, they are Lawful Evils. Would happily turn people into mutants if that leads them to more power and as long as they can do it while crafting laws to support them, especially being portrayed as the protectors of civilisation, they won't have any second thought. They see FD as a bunch of criminals that worth more as mutants than the human garbage they are and are perfectly consistent about generally thinking that some people just doesn't worth the air they breathe and they're doing just work by eliminating them. Making the world a better, safer, cleaner place. And might as well take their land to further their own prosperity.

So based on this thread so far, I'm going to side with the FD. I have a feeling that I might meet more a$$h*les within the Protectorate and I sure as hell don't want to work under them. Should I meet some decent bloke among the Protectorate, that might probably be a naive fool that did not open his/her eyes yet and probably just being used by them the way they would exploit my character too should I join their side. While I really look forward to see a likeable fellow over at FD.
Some might have valid reasons to fight against the Protectorate (possibly past tragedies causd by them), while I can't imagine that the expansion and mutanization of the Protectorate can be justified. Also, approaching this conflict from FD's side seems more interesting.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2019, 11:24:08 am by Vokial »

Kartik100

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Re: Protectorate vs Free Drones from RP perspective? (Spoilers)
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2019, 05:59:17 pm »
Actually now that I've played further and gotten a better understanding of the lore - the Protectorate is just the military branch of the United Stations, isn't it?

Abrams describes the FD's ultimate goal as "creating a community of of stations peacefully trading with each other". That sounds pretty close to what the United Stations are to me.

The problem is that the United Stations' council has a special spot for the Protectorate High Commander, and no decisions can be taken without the High Commander's approval, big or small. That is the main issue here - their military wing has too much unchecked power. So I'd say I support the idea of a Protectorate-like organization (law enforcement is pretty much a requirement for any civilization to stand the test of time) but not without heavy reforms to the current system. Which is of course not possible in-game, so supporting the Protectorate is indeed risky for Underrail. But then again, I don't think the zealous FD are the saviours we need in this situation either. I guess I'll be staying out of this conflict after all. I've already angered the FD anyway, by persuading their train robbers to let Rail Crossing have their supplies.

Still I think the distinction between the United Stations and the Protectorate is important, and I'd love to see this conflict expanded upon in future content. A more fleshed out main story about the Protectorate's internal conflicts could be an interesting concept to explore in Underrail 2.

Azura_04

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Re: Protectorate vs Free Drones from RP perspective? (Spoilers)
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2019, 10:34:59 am »
The US is a diplomatic branch of the Protectorate.

Basically a puppet of the Prot. to get Stations etc. into their sphere of influence without wasting ressources for a war. Or just not to spill innocent blood.

While I don't know if they made it to save ressources instead of wasting them in war or not to spill any blood.

The ressource option would show us that the Prot. doesn't really care abput the people but about effiency. If it's because of the blood one, then they care about the people.

Overall the US functions as a propaganda tool, to make it look like that it's great under Prot. overlordship.

But in the end as a station leader, you only have 2 choices...political integration into the United Stations of Underrail (USU) or war, you'll most likely loose it, and maybe your population will suffer a worse faith than the poles under Nazi occupation.

If you choose the integration into the USU, it's good for their propaganda, your people spread it, how it gave it a stable trade network, protection and universal currency to your people. Making it more attractive for other stations to join.

If you choose war, it's also good for their propaganda, they show their millitary might, frightening other stations and their leaders and people, and the faith of your people then would have fueled that fear, because other people don't want the same fate like you and your people suffered. So they are more likely to choose the integration aswell.

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Exterminator

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Re: Protectorate vs Free Drones from RP perspective? (Spoilers)
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2019, 11:02:48 am »
The conflict between Free Drones and Protectorate is a civil war, so there is no rights and wrongs.
That said, I liked Free Drones better than Protectorate.
The F.D. people we meet are not afraid to show their personality, while many of the P. people look stiff and are accustomed to hide their human side because they live under a rather oppressive regime :-X.
Many Northerners are chauvinistic towards people of the South ("ratters").
P. elite uses very questionable methods to deal with its opposition: gassing people with airborne mutagens, interrogation with the use of liquid acid, usage of propaganda to pit factions against one another (did you people notice how many P. propaganda listings are there in Omega station?).

P.S. I'm not a native language speaker, so I'd be grateful if someone would correct my grammar mistakes.

Kartik100

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Re: Protectorate vs Free Drones from RP perspective? (Spoilers)
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2019, 12:52:28 pm »
The US is a diplomatic branch of the Protectorate.

Basically a puppet of the Prot. to get Stations etc. into their sphere of influence without wasting ressources for a war. Or just not to spill innocent blood.

While I don't know if they made it to save ressources instead of wasting them in war or not to spill any blood.

The ressource option would show us that the Prot. doesn't really care abput the people but about effiency. If it's because of the blood one, then they care about the people.

Overall the US functions as a propaganda tool, to make it look like that it's great under Prot. overlordship.

But in the end as a station leader, you only have 2 choices...political integration into the United Stations of Underrail (USU) or war, you'll most likely loose it, and maybe your population will suffer a worse faith than the poles under Nazi occupation.

If you choose the integration into the USU, it's good for their propaganda, your people spread it, how it gave it a stable trade network, protection and universal currency to your people. Making it more attractive for other stations to join.

If you choose war, it's also good for their propaganda, they show their millitary might, frightening other stations and their leaders and people, and the faith of your people then would have fueled that fear, because other people don't want the same fate like you and your people suffered. So they are more likely to choose the integration aswell.

Vera Hale from SGS was previously a diplomat in the United Stations iirc, and she said she doesn't like the Protectorate but she does think integration into the United Stations is best for a station. Now we could argue that she's some Protectorate pawn sent to SGS to manipulate the station by feeding them Protectorate propaganda but personally I think Tanner, Gorsky, and Ezra are smarter than that. They wouldn't let someone like that get such an influential position in SGS.

So I don't think the United Stations being a good thing is mere propaganda. It probably does benefit stations, especially those in remote locations with lack of proper supplies. I do, however, agree that it is a "deal with the devil" situation. For some stations catching the attention of the Protectorate could be the last hope for survival, and for some it could be a brutal take-over and a harsh change in lifestyle. For stations like Foundry they're better off alone - they have strong defenses and the Foundry guard can keep the Ironheads at bay. But for stations like Rail Crossing who are unable to manage by their own, integration is the only way of survival.

Tamior

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Re: Protectorate vs Free Drones from RP perspective? (Spoilers)
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2020, 12:48:24 am »
 Protectorate is just a government. As any government, they have both authoritarian and more democratic tendencies. However, what you really need to understand here, is that the *really bad* tendencies in protectorate (i.e. chemical assault unit) exist and flourish specifically because free drones exist and do what they do. Essentially, free drones are the reason for chemical assault units continued existence.
Protectorate can be changed/improved, but the change needs to come from within and through more democratic means. What free drones are doing literally just promotes the worst in protectorate and perpetuates the cycle.

chimaera

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Re: Protectorate vs Free Drones from RP perspective? (Spoilers)
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2020, 06:35:36 pm »
Protectorate is just a government. As any government, they have both authoritarian and more democratic tendencies. However, what you really need to understand here, is that the *really bad* tendencies in protectorate (i.e. chemical assault unit) exist and flourish specifically because free drones exist and do what they do. Essentially, free drones are the reason for chemical assault units continued existence.
Consider how incompetent the CAU is I doubt it. I find it more likely they try to be the next biocorp, but they lack the brainpower to achieve this.

On a side note, I've done each questline only once, but I seem to remember they was a tiny "Allo! Allo!" reference in the mysterious lady dialogue ("Listen carefully, I will say this only once."). Which was a British comedy series about the inept French resistance fighting the equally inept nazi occupants.

harperfan7

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Re: Protectorate vs Free Drones from RP perspective? (Spoilers)
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2020, 09:31:46 pm »
usage of propaganda to pit factions against one another (did you people notice how many P. propaganda listings are there in Omega station?).

How the hell did this never occur to me?
« Last Edit: January 01, 2020, 09:37:28 pm by harperfan7 »
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destroyor

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Re: Protectorate vs Free Drones from RP perspective? (Spoilers)
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2020, 10:11:37 pm »
I don't get the love for FD. Just because they might be likable doesn't mean they are right/helpful to the general population. Just because Protectorate might be unlikable doesn't mean they aren't benefiting society as a whole.

I think a lot of people here are judging the two factions with their current relatively peaceful real life values and lost sight of perspective. You know those commoners with no weapon and random scraps in their inventory hanging around Core City? These are your average citizens living within Underrail. They are pretty much defenseless against shit loads of very real threats - bandits, Lurkers, Ironheads, Lunatics, wild roaming animals + bugs and possibilities of famine (talk to IRIS backup and you'll see). With the addition of DLC we can see the world is facing the long term threat of being infected by monolith of alien origin. What would FD for the mass? Way more harm than good. In fact, we've seen they are willing to sacrifice a station's survival to stick it to the man. What would Protectorate do for your average citizen? Oppressive rule with Iron fist but alive, relatively safe and fed.

I'm interested to see evidence of CAU being incompetent. I always get the impressive from talking to npc within Fort Apogee that CAU is effective but outright evil.