Author Topic: Disappointed ...  (Read 6324 times)

MD

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Disappointed ...
« on: July 14, 2014, 08:14:05 pm »
I liked this game right away while playing  a day with the demo version so I purchased it in order to keep playing.
Really like the story, really like the artwork and really like that it's an rpg without the same old old fashion medieval demons and magic theme that most rpgs have. 
But... I've only been playing for 3 straight days and suddenly I find myself sadly disappointed because of the lack of respawn in  both critters and loot. It's not realistic to think that this world of creatures would suddenly stop breeding or have others migrate or eventually make their way through the same areas just because I cleared out a few that I came across while exploring or filled my quest quota for someone.
The same I find is true with the loot. In a world of people their  shelves, footlockers, crates and barrels. It's unreasonable to think they would suddenly just stop storing items in them or even throwing trash away just because my character came through and grabbed what was there.
I also have pickpocketing as a talent but will I find that people will stop putting things in their pockets anymore just because I successfully picked them? I read that the merchants periodically restock their trade goods with new things, so I assumed that loot and critters would eventually respawn as well. If this isn't so and there are no  plans for this to be implemented into the game I'm going to be so disappointed...  :(

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Disappointed ...
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2014, 09:16:23 pm »
 ???
I'm pretty sure that critters eventually respawn.
It is possible that certain evens reset the timers, though, so you might very well find yourself never seeing that occasion during the current content.
That aside, have you noticed your character never sleeps unless told to? :P
As far as I'm concerned, the whole current story could very well unfold within a few days, though I'd prefer it to be a bit longer.
As for the lockers;
Let's say it wasn't an ancient locker behind an autoturret that hasn't been properly configured in at the very least decades.
You move to an area where you can still see the decomposing remnants of former inhabitants rotting on the floor.
You find a footlocker, it's lock has been picked, and you don't have the key.
I don't know about you, but I wouldn't stash my stuff there.

All that aside, the game currently has a slight problem in that everyone who even slightly worries about his finances (or can craft) amasses a serious amount of charons in short order.
If you simulate, or at least act like you do, a propder underground living with people moving and what not, the players actions would put a strain on the Underrail economy, and I'd certainly expect you to be robbed or mugged occasionally for all that currency the carry around.
And what about SGS, how do they earn their own money?
Shouldn't you pay taxes?

... Thinking about it, chance encounters with bandits aren't a bad idea.
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Elhazzared

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Re: Disappointed ...
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2014, 09:35:53 pm »
Critters do respawn after a while, I belive it's the same with the shops. every 40 minutes stuff respawns and merchants change wares. I can be wrong on the tiemrs but I belive that's it.

That being said, some critters are quest specific critters and as such they do not respawn so only some things do respawns.

As for containers with loot. Yeah the loot doesn't respawns but there are 2 things that can be said about this.

First, it doesn't matters right now and I'm not going to even say that the players already get a lot of money very quickly. While this is true, this is inconsequential. Above all you just can't sell everything so what do you care to get another 100 items by revisiting old places when you won't sell more than 10 of them (the arbitrary number serve only as an example, not as anything accurate). It is a waste of time to go looking for too much loot, you just can't do anything with it anyway.

Secondly, from a more realistic perspective you have to look at things this way. Some places are completly abandoned, you got there and scavenged the place. It's not like suddenly someone goes in there and leaves loot around for the next guy who enters in there to get it... Now for the more commun areas you could say that yes, just because someone managed to steal from your locker you wouldn't stop using using it. But you'd probably get a much stronger lock in place to make sure no one would lockpick it again... Let's not forget that once you lockpick something it is forever open which also isn't realistic. similarly for containers that don't require lockpicking or hacking you'd just have to deal with an even much higher level lock to enter their houses. Even if you were to say... Well, I can level up my skill and get in... Tecnicly yes, but that doesn't means they'd have better stuff for you to steal and at the end of the day it could be just a waste.

So changing the loot system here while it could give you a more belivable world, it would serve no practical purpose and more to the point, the required changes would require a tremendous amount of work and change of many things to accomodate for it... It's not like I'm opposed to the idea, I just think that it's unnecessary and right now a huge delay in development for no practical purpose. It's one of those things that one could consider after the game is ready to release and add as a final polish if anything.

MD

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Re: Disappointed ...
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2014, 10:36:26 pm »
Yes, I can see where all of what you've both said does make good sense... but when you say players are making loads of money I sure wish I knew their secret because I haven't been able to afford anything that is sold or traded for the last 3 days of game playing. I have never had more than about maybe 170 (more like 120-80 most of the time) and can't afford medicine, armor pieces or ammo unless I find it.  I'm tired of running back to see the doctor just to get healed. But I do have lots of scraps and junk I've been stashing in my private quarters because I can't find anyone to buy it from me (err... my character). Maybe I should have tried taking a crafting class or 2?  So I guess I've just become too reliant on finding loot for some sort of income. 

Elhazzared

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Re: Disappointed ...
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2014, 11:34:27 pm »
MD - You aren't really managing to progress that much and just making new characters all the time right?.. No need to be ashamed if that's the case, when i started playing it was the same until I could finally start to understand how to build a character, how to engage enemies, what areas to avoid at first.

I think that the real first step is having you learn to build a character but shouldn't be too hard. i'm sure you can ask around for a good set to start up. Don't be afraid to lower characteristics to 3, for example my psi character always starts with 3 str, you just don't need it. Psi is your main attack which uses will that you should max out. If you need an extra weapon crossbows don't have str requirements so you are golden there, especially since you are given one at the start. If you are going for guns you want high perception, you can put will at 3. This is just a simple example.

Skills that you should always have include lockpick, hacking (you don't actually need the skill of electronics for this, it can be confusing because of the tooltip but all you need is the skill hacking itself), one or two combat skill (one if you use psi, 2 if you don't, throwing and guns are a pretty good combo). So long as you are not going for a heavy armor mellee based build you should ALWAYS have stealth. Stealth is in my opinion the single most useful skill in the game. The reason for this is that you can use stealth not to bypass enemies, but rather to position yourself where you want before iniciating combat as well as always having the first turn.

Useful things to know right at the beggining. The first quest is very easy, however there are places where there is too many rathounds together. There is a simple way to deal with them and it's called a grenade. You might think it's a waste of money but trust me, it isn't and makes the fight easy. There are only 2 big groups. The ones near an explosive barrel which you should use stealth to try and kill them when they cluster around it and shoot it. The guy in the house with the 2 dogs can be a pain to deal with, don't talk to him and if you do just do not use anything that will iniciate the combat. Start the game by a grenade and it is increadibly easy to win the fight... the other big pack of dogs is to the opposite side, the map on the right, stealth helps you with positioning and a grenade helps you kill them.

After the first quest is complete, assuming you looted all I'm sure you'll be left with some 700 credits easily... you get the reward for activating all houses. you get some decent loot from crates provided you have hacking and lockpicking. Getting the guy's watch also gives you choice of stuff, always chose the weapon, good money selling, the rest is pretty much worthless... Trust me, very easy money ;)

Whether or notyou buy a grenade or two in the begining you need to buy at least the haxxor from ezra and at least a couple bateries for it. Buy yourself a few lockpicks too, at least 5 to last for a little bit in adition to the ones you'll find earlier on.

Most of the difficulty do is frontloaded.

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Disappointed ...
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2014, 10:10:45 am »
:D
I started to always do the "Kohlmeier Run" at the very latest directly after GMS, often before.
I'd say that task is vastly overcredited. You need an automatic weapon or some explosives for it, but it's oh so worth it.
As for stats, the more experienced you are, the more you know how to do, but absolutely always have at least either lockpicking or hacking.
You shouldn't have low Dex and low Int.
First person to give Styg Karma.

I hereby declare that I love the oddity system and am in favour of shop and carry limits.

MD

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Re: Disappointed ...
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2014, 05:33:44 pm »
Elhazzared, thank you for your suggestions.
I'm going to try another build I think since I've spent points in things I'm not really all that interested in. Psi is a big part of what I'd like to focus on too, not a melee/strength-heavy armor sort of player. I've always played Rangers/Hunters/Scout in all the RPGs I've played in the past because I know how good Stamina/Endurance/Dodge/Evasion are to this sort of character. Bows, duel daggers and crossbows have always been my favorite choice of weapons. Still, there's lots more to learn with each new game I play no matter how good I was in a previous one :)

Everyone else, thanks  so much for your input... all helpful!

MD

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Re: Disappointed ...
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2014, 05:36:24 pm »
Will try the Export/Import thing too to see how that helps... thanks for that tip :)

Elhazzared

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Re: Disappointed ...
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2014, 06:27:51 pm »
If you wanna try out psi I can tell you how I did it. I'm sure others have their prefered way of going about it but this one works pretty well for me.

Str-3
Will-10
Per-7
I belive all else stays at 5. The reason for perception to be 7 is because you'll use crossbows as well as the feat that allows you to increase perception by 3 to detect hidden stuff so you can always find all secret doors and stuff.

As for which skills I go with:
Crossbows
lockpicking
hacking
Stealth
the 3 psi schools
persuasion

Crossbow is a good thing because of the special bolts, especially the electric one which is additional stuns, especially useful against robots. Also, crossbow don't have minimum required strenght so it fits well.

lockpicking and hacking allow for you to get all the loot.

Stealth means you inniciate the combat in your own terms, not the enemy's terms.

The 3 psi schools obviously for the combat options

Persuasion for extra talk options and certain quest unlocks.

Now others prefer to do it a bit differently and have some crafting added for a good measure, some prefer having dodge and evasion. I personaly prefer to play it like this... It is effective in the sense that almost always I can dispatch the enemies before I get hit and even if they get to me, I always have a little bit of health as I didn't lowered my constitution.

Don't relly on psi too much innitially. Your crossbow is pretty damn awesome to kill things. You should relly on your psi early on to land a stun if you are fighting 2 or 3 enemies, saves you a bit of health.

if you do things right when you get to the guy with the 2 rathounds you can play dirty so long as you left the barrel near the house intact.

Just aggro the guy and then cast a force wall on the door to keep him inside, then run back around the corner and wait for him and the doogs to get by the barrel. XD

Just a little dirty trick to set you thinking ouside of the box when you play the psi user.

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Disappointed ...
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2014, 12:35:05 pm »
Well, you seem to be lucky, then.
I've yet to go out there without taking at least 2 60+ damage criticals (if the guy got a turn at all), and I sure did that a bunch now.
Also, 20 Biology is immensely helpful because it allows you to use cheap bandages out of combat no matter the severity of your injuries.
It may end up being less useful, ironically, for tanky characters, because at some point you need three bandages for a full heal, and few battles bring you below 40%.
First person to give Styg Karma.

I hereby declare that I love the oddity system and am in favour of shop and carry limits.

Elhazzared

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Re: Disappointed ...
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2014, 02:30:17 pm »
The crafting of psi boosters and bandages can be good, but I find getting the resources is a little bit iffy. They are scared around, sure enough, they eventually respawn too. But the ammount you need just means you don't get enough and you'll always need to buy psi boosters all the same. I just prefer to skip the hassle and buy them all, the game throws you enough money for that.

And well, I'm sure you can skip hacking and lockpicking and even pickpocketing if you want. But you miss a ton of stuff then.

Personally I dislike pickpocketing but that's me. Hacking and lockpicking are absolutly required for me, if I don't grab everything out of a level i feel like I'm being cheated of my rewards, thus why I get 10 perception to find secrets all the time.

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Disappointed ...
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2014, 03:12:56 pm »
Not everyone is that ocd.  :P
First person to give Styg Karma.

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Elhazzared

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Re: Disappointed ...
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2014, 04:08:07 pm »
It's not about ocd really. It's really about game enjoyment. If great part of the fun of the game is getting loot to get stronger, be it through good loot you use or through selling it so you can buy better stuff. It is counter intuitive to give you more  loot than you can sell... Leaving stuff behind just cause you can't use it or sell it is pretty much like throwing money out the window.

I can tolerate it in hack and slash games when some loot is incredibly low value (even then it does slightly bothers me, good thing sacred 2 actually has an on spot sale system with a very small loss of income, great for cheap items). But in RPGs I find this unacceptable... Again, that is just me.

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Disappointed ...
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2014, 01:27:13 am »
Well, arguing that is pointless, but when I'm sitting on more money than every single trader in the game and can buy everything at a whim, I'd say that whatever drops is, relatively speaking, of low value.  ;)
I for one do find it counter-intuitive for npcs and critters to only drop what is useful, and not, say, every single item in their inventory, which I sure don't want to carry around.
But let's get back around to my first point. :D
First person to give Styg Karma.

I hereby declare that I love the oddity system and am in favour of shop and carry limits.

MD

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Re: Disappointed ...
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2014, 02:06:19 am »
I agree, lockpicking, hacking and snooping are great fun for me. I love to explore and find things that other may have passed up for whatever reason (in multiplayer games) and have the skills high enough to get in and grab the goodies :)
As for the ton of things I've picked up while venturing I hate having to always drop stuff just because I can't sell it or become totally encumbered. I'm starting to get a little better with money, but I still prefer there were more ways to make it. The prices for most things are way too high, imo, and way too slow for my liking in getting what I really need. I can make psi and healing boosts now, even made a few psi boosts, but I'd like to get the bandage making too but never saw that blueprint sold anywhere... yet.
Not sure what the player base is like for this game, but from what I've read in some other forums it seems I'm not alone in feeling that this game could benefit from adding a little more player friendly boosts to help keep the frustration level down and the fun up just to help give the newbies (myself included) more of a reason to stick with the game and not give up for the reasons stated before. That's just my opinion though.