Underrail Forum
Underrail => Suggestions => Topic started by: harperfan7 on October 22, 2021, 03:24:22 pm
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Instead of a constant buff anytime you are below 30%, make it grant the buff for an amount of time when you drop below 30% or maybe anytime you get injured when below 30%.
edit: came up with this later in the thread: "Using the "bonus equal to damage just taken idea", what if, anytime you get damaged you get a buff for 1-3 turns (not sure, but I'm leaning towards 1) to your crit chance that scales with your hp percentage like stoicism? So each time you take damage you get a boost, and the more wounded you are the bigger the boost gets (caps at 30%), but it only lasts a short time each time you get hurt."
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I feel like with both options, people would just use caltrops to manipulate health right before starting combat. SI instead should probably just give 20% crit chance.
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That's a huge pain in the ass though, and isn't always an option.
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why you want to nerf it?
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It's gay to walk around under 30%.
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when you are not below 30% feat do nothing
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I do not understend why you wants nerf SI. For me SI is reward for a high Con (Thick Skull / Last Stand is weak without specialization, Conditioning is very specific feat).
It's gay to walk around under 30%.
Not give SI and no problem :)
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People use SI as a permanent +30% crit bonus. They take 9 con just for that; they have no interest in tanking or otherwise "being tough" (with the exception of stoicism damage reduction style builds). They walk around as heavily wounded glass cannons who use mp, CC, corners, etc to not get hit (which I think is fine on its own). It's cheesy powergaming. This would make it fall in line with its intended use, which is getting a boost when you are heavily wounded.
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who does that?people on reddit?May be we shoul' nerf tranquility too:people powergaming walking behind corners not getting damage and casting their infinite spells
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Maybe a better change would be “after taking damage, gain crit chance equal to half the percentage of health lost for 2 rounds”. For example, gettin hit by an AR burst that takes you from 100% health to 40% health would give +30% crit chance. This way characters don’t just walk around under 30% health, and builds focused around a powerful alpha strike have to expend resources like throwing a grenade to get the crit boost. It also makes SI much more appealing to tank builds, who normally don’t walk around at low health without stoicism.
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tank builds rarely get bursted down to low health from full.Just leave feat alone, there a lot of feats that deserve attention rather feat that used to reach conditional 100% crit for 6 stats
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If you're not walking around with low health, then a few turns of +crit% should be fine.
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This feat is antithetical to tanking. The rare occurrence it actually helps isn’t worth it on a tank build IMO. I’d say you are tanking wrong if it is getting lots of action. Maybe a heavy leather build with TM and specced Stoicism but I think you are going to just reduce build variation by nerfing it this way and turn it more of a niche feat or a low priority one. Or you’ll just have the crit junkies do work arounds for the fights that really matter. Not seeing the upside to a nerf here.
Edit: I would also like to add cutting the duration would mostly hurt tankier builds anyway that can survive fights at the low of HP since they typically sacrifice DPS for survivability. They’ll get a few shots in sure but if you make it 2(3) turns your glass cannons will still end their fights before the duration is gone. Make it 1(2) turns and it’s useless to anything that isn’t glass.
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It should get nerfed as the playstyle it encourages is, well, wrong. It forces you to get high Con, just so you trade most of your hitpoints into massive critchance, changing your tank into glassiest of cannons. It makes no sense from character building perspective. The feat should promote risky tanky playstyle, not forgo the tanky aspect.
I would change it into something like: gain 1% crit chance per 10hps lost during last turn, up to 30%, for the next turn. Reward tanks for tanking instead of turning them from tanks to twigs.
EDIT: Damn, Shoggothwhisperer came up with similar idea already....
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This feat is antithetical to tanking. The rare occurrence it actually helps isn’t worth it on a tank build IMO. I’d say you are tanking wrong if it is getting lots of action. Maybe a heavy leather build with TM and specced Stoicism but I think you are going to just reduce build variation by nerfing it this way and turn it more of a niche feat or a low priority one. Or you’ll just have the crit junkies do work arounds for the fights that really matter. Not seeing the upside to a nerf here.
Edit: I would also like to add cutting the duration would mostly hurt tankier builds anyway that can survive fights at the low of HP since they typically sacrifice DPS for survivability. They’ll get a few shots in sure but if you make it 2(3) turns your glass cannons will still end their fights before the duration is gone. Make it 1(2) turns and it’s useless to anything that isn’t glass.
That's fine. As a tank, there are a handful of things that can hurt you quickly, in which case even a couple turns can make a big difference for you. And even if you're getting worn down slowly, a few turns of higher crit chance can win you the fight (especially if you're ranged or psi). However, consider in the OP I said "when you drop below 30% or maybe anytime you get injured when below 30%" in the latter case it would likely get renewed every turn.
I admit people might just start walking around with 40 or 50% health so they can get hit and trigger it. Using the "bonus equal to damage just taken idea", what if, anytime you get damaged you get a buff for 1-3 turns (not sure, but I'm leaning towards 1) to your crit chance that scales with your hp percentage like stoicism? So each time you take damage you get a boost, and the more wounded you are the bigger the boost gets (caps at 30%), but it only lasts a short time each time you get hurt. This doesn't stop a near-death glass cannon from stepping on a caltrop and going nova for a turn, but at least they'd only get a turn (and be almost dead and very squishy afterwards, whereas a tank is still tanky).
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This feat is antithetical to tanking. The rare occurrence it actually helps isn’t worth it on a tank build IMO. I’d say you are tanking wrong if it is getting lots of action. Maybe a heavy leather build with TM and specced Stoicism but I think you are going to just reduce build variation by nerfing it this way and turn it more of a niche feat or a low priority one. Or you’ll just have the crit junkies do work arounds for the fights that really matter. Not seeing the upside to a nerf here.
Edit: I would also like to add cutting the duration would mostly hurt tankier builds anyway that can survive fights at the low of HP since they typically sacrifice DPS for survivability. They’ll get a few shots in sure but if you make it 2(3) turns your glass cannons will still end their fights before the duration is gone. Make it 1(2) turns and it’s useless to anything that isn’t glass.
That's fine. As a tank, there are a handful of things that can hurt you quickly, in which case even a couple turns can make a big difference for you. And even if you're getting worn down slowly, a few turns of higher crit chance can win you the fight (especially if you're ranged or psi). However, consider in the OP I said "when you drop below 30% or maybe anytime you get injured when below 30%" in the latter case it would likely get renewed every turn.
I admit people might just start walking around with 40 or 50% health so they can get hit and trigger it. Using the "bonus equal to damage just taken idea", what if, anytime you get damaged you get a buff for 1-3 turns (not sure, but I'm leaning towards 1) to your crit chance that scales with your hp percentage like stoicism? So each time you take damage you get a boost, and the more wounded you are the bigger the boost gets (caps at 30%), but it only lasts a short time each time you get hurt. This doesn't stop a near-death glass cannon from stepping on a caltrop and going nova for a turn, but at least they'd only get a turn (and be almost dead and very squishy afterwards, whereas a tank is still tanky).
A handful of things is the problem. This "oh shit" button won't see much play so that's why I don't think its worth a feat slot for tanks most of the time and even less so if you make it duration based. I suppose a refresh on damage (hit would be better for when you get immunity) could fix that part for them but I still don't think its that great of a feat for most tanks. If you did the math how much crit did you really end up getting by the end of the game over the course of the playthrough? Not much.
The stoicism idea will still be abused with nades or other outside purposeful damage so I don't think that's a great solver for the problem you have with SI but I do think it would make it a much more appealing feat for tanks. Also a glass cannon will often only need 1(2) turn anyway. Guess on super big fights it helps the problem but for your typical encounter and even some of the larger ones a pistol, sniper, AR, etc. can finish the fight in those 2 turns. I don't think it addresses the issue that it boosts offense for a stat that is based around defense.
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I think it works nicely. It gives you some offense while you're tanking, and makes you more offensive the more wounded you are. It also is harder to cheese. Win/win.
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There is not much that can really hurt a tank build like taking crits.
Survival instincts can be reworked into something like: whenever you get critically hit your next attack this turn is guaranteed to be critical. And add specialization that allows for +1 crit attack per 2 spec points or something.
There is antisynegy with heavy helmets, crotch guard and paranoia which reduce chance to be critically hit.
Maybe better way to do this would be: whenever you take a hit that would reduce your hp by 25-40% your next attack this turn is guaranteed to be critical.
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Ah yes, let's dropkick a good feat into unusable territory for the final patch, because after 2000 hours Underrail just isn't challenging anymore.
You already have to spend 6 stat points (the same amount that you obtain naturally through leveling to 24) and be within <30% HP (a death sentence in Dominating) for it to be active.
When you enter Depot A you can't use Survival Instincts by itself anymore, much less if you're a psi user. You'll simply die to the copious amounts of acid damage, even with full mutated dog leather armor and boots. And this keeps up throughout the game outside of edge cases that already have ways to cheese it without the need for a feat (ie. Arena); SI isn't the game breaking feat you think it to be that instantly makes everything die because you're simply nearly dead.
To be able to walk around with such low HP, you still need to invest into either tanking feats and equipment (Conditioning, Stoicism, Juggernaut, and metal armor) which are part of Constitution; or MP feats and equipment (Fancy Footwork, Hit and Run, Sprint, and tabis/strider boots) so you can abuse line of sight with Agility feats, even more stat points that don't even go towards your health but instead give you adaptability.
Let's look at even more overpowered feat combos (or even single feats) that don't need as much investment, shall we?
Flurry and Fancy Footwork. Psionic Mania and Premeditation. Grenadier and Three Pointer. Ambush. Concentrated Fire. Commando.
Hell, if you're so butthurt about people using feats that synergize together, why don't you suggest to nerf Fight Response too? It's already a Veteran feat that comes near the end of the game and doesn't nearly give as much AP as Contraction which can be obtained right out of Depot A. Let's nerf it even further, people are breaking the game using a Level 26 feat in conjunction with 3 other feats.
I'm not even going to address the changes suggested in this thread which require you to take damage that exceeds your max HP and mechanical damage resistance with metal armor in Dominating for an equal effect to what already exists.
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>good feat
>You already have to spend 6 stat points (the same amount that you obtain naturally through leveling to 24) and be within <30% HP (a death sentence in Dominating) for it to be active. When you enter Depot A you can't use Survival Instincts by itself anymore, much less if you're a psi user. You'll simply die to the copious amounts of acid damage, even with full mutated dog leather armor and boots. And this keeps up throughout the game outside of edge cases that already have ways to cheese it without the need for a feat (ie. Arena); SI isn't the game breaking feat you think it to be that instantly makes everything die because you're simply nearly dead.
Pick one.
As it stands now survival instincts are only useful to stealth/tm builds abusing high ap and stasis. Instead of being useful to actual high con builds.
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did you try stoicism si fight response build?Its quite good and i was comfortable with being in si treshhold.You just refuse to see it outside of "oh my god someone on reddit beat this ultra hard game while never being hit".
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did you try stoicism si fight response build?Its quite good and i was comfortable with being in si treshhold.You just refuse to see it outside of "oh my god someone on reddit beat this ultra hard game while never being hit".
Never heard of it. Is it a tin can AR build?
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did you try stoicism si fight response build?Its quite good and i was comfortable with being in si treshhold.You just refuse to see it outside of "oh my god someone on reddit beat this ultra hard game while never being hit".
Never heard of it. Is it a tin can AR build?
no, i used it on my rasophore hybrid
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did you try stoicism si fight response build?Its quite good and i was comfortable with being in si treshhold.You just refuse to see it outside of "oh my god someone on reddit beat this ultra hard game while never being hit".
Never heard of it. Is it a tin can AR build?
No, it’s a build focused around maximizing damage reduction, so it’s usually a hammer build with ancient rathound leather. At low health mechanical damage is reduced to about 30% without drugs, and morphine makes you immune to mechanical damage and almost immune to everything else outside of damage increasing effects like infected wound and contamination.
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Only people who have already mastered the game know to use it. Even then it isn't nearly as in-your-face "use me or admit this is a challenge run" as TM/Psi-hybrid in general compared to what no psi offers. Just save it for the next game's balance.
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People use SI as a permanent +30% crit bonus. They take 9 con just for that; they have no interest in tanking or otherwise "being tough" (with the exception of stoicism damage reduction style builds). They walk around as heavily wounded glass cannons who use mp, CC, corners, etc to not get hit (which I think is fine on its own). It's cheesy powergaming. This would make it fall in line with its intended use, which is getting a boost when you are heavily wounded.
This exactly but do not expect much support from the munchkins here.