Underrail Forum
Underrail => Builds => Topic started by: boardd on November 26, 2023, 09:17:50 pm
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Hello, im a total rookie newb to under rail from classic fallout. I was wondering if someone could help me make a build that could get me through the game on normal (doesnt have to be anything special or any specific playstile :) )
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Hello, im a total rookie newb to under rail from classic fallout. I was wondering if someone could help me make a build that could get me through the game on normal (doesnt have to be anything special or any specific playstile :) )
For a total rookie, i suggest this:
Str 6
Dex 3
Agi 7
Con 3
Per 10
Will 3
Int 8
These stats:
- Str 6: allows to use all sorts of Guns (not Heavy Guns). Guns include grenade launchers, assault rifles, sniper rifles, SMGs, pistols (including energy and chemical pistols). Guns are "bread and butter" and is the most versatile and reliable offense to start playing the game with. Some few guns require Str 7, which you can easily get with food buff if desired;
- Agi 7: Stealth is very useful in this game, and Interloper is the best Stealth feat by far - requires Agi 7. Sprint requires Agi 6 and is very good, too. Agility also increases mobility - great for a new player;
- Per 10: increases Guns accuracy, Guns damage, required for some great sniper feats if you'd go that way. Also detects hidden enemies, secrets, passages, and mines. All great for a new player;
- Int 8: increases effective values of crafting skills, hacking, mercantile - the latter two skills i highly recommend for a new player (Mercantile to effective 105 is enough, Hacking to effective 130 is enough), as these two skills (at said values) unlock lots of high quality goods at merchants and various extra goods and quest paths in all sorts of places. Crafting skills - best way to figure out if you like them is to try them, and higher Int helps not to waste most of your skill points into crafting skills only;
- Con 3: normal mode is quite forgiving about health and medicine efficiency. Con 3 builds are most powerful for most types of characters. And it's not oh so massive extra health from a few extra points in Con. You're likely to get higher health bonus from a certain crafted high quality armor;
- Will 3: if you're not planning to deal main damage with psionics - and as a Guns build you ain't - then you don't need higher than 3. That said, lots of useful Psi abilities are great at Will 3 nonetheless, if you decide to learn any;
- Dex 3: most of the time this is "all or nothing" stat: dedicated pistol and SMG builds go max Dex and Versatility feat, but normal Guns builds go Perception as a main stat and not much if any into Dex.
Skill-wise, i recommend:
- maxing out Guns and Stealth every level,
- getting 60...90 effective Lockpicking ("effective" means actual value shown in character screen after all current bonuses / synergies are applied),
- ~80sh effective Hacking ASAP,
- 20sh in effective Biology and Chemistry not later than level ~10 - for basic crafts and Toxic Gas grenades (these are extremely powerful - up to +200% damage taken to affected foes at max 20 stacks of the debuff),
- ~80...90 in hard-point (actually spent skll points) Electronics: energy shield emitters, smart night vision goggles, cloaking devices are all great things to make;
- ~80 in hard-point Mechanics, to craft all sorts of high-quality guns (you'll find parts both from loot and sold by many merchants)
- ~90 in hard-point Throwing (hand grenades are useful and don't occupy a weapon slot, especially higher grade ones - up to mk5 - if crafted with higher Chemistry / Electronics, but using them with any tolerable accuracy requires about that much skill in Throwing);
Overall, there's enough skill points to max out exactly 8 skills - or get more than 8 skills somewhat developed if you don't max out some of them, so keep that in mind. Over-spending in some skill can make you regret it later. All proposed above - sums up to some 700sh skill points spent, out of total 1280 skill points earnable by maximum level (30, assuming you have Expedition DLC installed). There are many various items (equipment, consumables, even work benches in your house once you get one and buy some) to boost some skills, and some more items to boost some stats - which in turn add to all skills based on a particular boosted stat.
P.S. Good luck, whichever build you decide to go with. o7
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You should take this "build" from the -400 karma kind soul I'm sure it works. :-X
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"If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you."
Bible, John 15:19
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You should take this "build" from the -400 karma kind soul I'm sure it works. :-X
I made this account 5 years ago and I'm forced to post for the first time cause of the lad.
His legend is growing.
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"If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you."
Bible, John 15:19
Not sure its that deep, you just post shit advice, like psp on a shotgun tank xd.
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"If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you."
Bible, John 15:19
I think it's more likely that the world hates you because you post retarded walls of gibberish.
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so uhh.. should i use what the guy sent or no?
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If it sounds good to you, then you should. If it sounds "gibberish" and/or "shitty advice" to you, then you shouldn't. Your game, your decision.
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If it sounds good to you, then you should. If it sounds "gibberish" and/or "shitty advice" to you, then you shouldn't. Your game, your decision.
explain the use of psp on a tank build, where you shouldn't be maxing TC.
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To get back on topic, for a brand new player I'd recommend looking through the builds forum for an Assault Rifle build.
Assault Rifles are probably the easiest to build for and can let you learn the fundamentals of playing the game if you aren't interested in figuring out the builds part of the game.
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explain the use of psp on a tank build, where you shouldn't be maxing TC.
I provided an explanation for psp in there topic, and i did it well before you mentioned psp in this topic. No idea why you ask for it in this one; it's pretty off-topic here as i did not suggest any TC ability, psp included, in this topic. I can't help it if you for some reason are unable to see it.
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I will always recommend a pistol build for new players.
AR is easier to get to grips with mechanically, because it is very simple and thus can get a bit dull.
Also, at the very beginning of the game, which is where you'll struggle the most with getting to grips with things, you won't have an assault rifle, you'll have a pistol.
Building for it right out of the gate will let you get off to a strong start, and mechanical pistols are one of the most reliable and powerful weapon types in the game all the way through.
A lot of enemies in the early game make use of them, too, so that will naturally help you have at least one functioning weapon with ammo to go along with it.
Another bonus of pistols is a good stat distribution for them will also work well for SMGs, so if you find yourself a little lacking in the dakka department early on, you can always pick up an SMG for burst fire - they are also fairly common weapons.
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Pistols and SMGs are a good part of Guns-based character i roughly outlined above, but both have one significant limitation: their range. Assault rifles and sniper rifles are so good because anything you see - you can shoot at.
Beginning of the game, there is more than enough money in Normal mode to buy any type of a gun from SGS merchant (or better, from Junkyard merchant, higher quality there), which is very early in the game. Until then, yep, pistols do great, but they do without investing any feats into it, too - at this stage.
P.S. Like Leon said in Leon movie, easiest to master - is the sniper rifle, and then as one learns more and more of the craft, one gets closer and closer to the target, knife being the weapon mastered last. :)
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It is true that the economy in Normal difficulty is busted, making money from buying components and assembling them being its most exploitable aspect.
Still, as a new player, it may take time to cotton on to such exploits - I remember fretting about spending money as a beginner as I wasn't sure how badly I'd need it later on - having your main weapon given to you for free is a nice antidote to this.
I tend to find that long range is rarely a huge boon due to the harsh effects of light level and target distance on accuracy, especially on assault rifles that are reliant on inaccurate bursting to reach anywhere near their full potential.
The hardest part of the game is the start unless you really mess up your build, so my advice is aimed toward getting someone new through that part of it. Trying to fight at long range with low skill levels is asking for trouble.
Pistol accuracy and range is surprisingly good and more than adequate for nearly all situations, they also allow a lot of control over how you spread out your damage with low-AP shots.
Sniper rifles are a real turn-off early on, they need a lot of early-mid game feats and specialization to be anywhere near good, and they are still frustrating as hell to use with those feats.
I wouldn't recommend them at all.
Pistols, on the other hand, let you feel like you are developing your build consistently from the very start of the game all the way through, which is a nice feeling.
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Having ample accuracy is one of main reasons i proposed Perception 10 and maxing Guns skill at every level. This alone quickly buffs up accuracy to max in Normal mode, where enemies' Evasion is not scaled up nearly as much as it happens in harder difficulties. There's also Night Vision goggles possible to find from loot starting in Depot A, on top of that.
Trying to fight at long range even early in the game - is useful, due to early game enemies having limited (often, none) ranged attacks, and when they do - their range is limited, like dogs' spit and burrowers' ranged attack. Further, early game enemies don't have huge mobility (except burrower spawns, which are very low damage melee attackers), making it possible to effectively kite them. It's a YMMV / playstyle thing i think - some prefer the safety of long range, some prefer higher early game hit chances pistols can indeed provide, especially for lower perception builds.
Low-AP shots for pistols available early game - automatically means low damage, as it's lower caliber non-Hammerer pistols. Low-AP if to compare to assault rifle single shot mode, that is.
Very true about sniper rifles, these need core feats taken to really shine. However, Aimed Shot + Snipe + Shooting Spree are not late game feats - one can very well get all three before even stepping into Depot A. If not, most likely 3rd one will be taken during or very soon after Depot A. Enemies after Depot A become lots more tough, and sniping rifles give a big edge then. Personally, i always felt Depot A and everything before it - is a kind of tutorial part of the game, and the real game - is everything after it, btw. Can't rule out sniper rifles for a Guns build, me thinks. They are good for most of the game.
One other thing which always make me hesitate to recommend pistol builds for anything close to the base stat distribution i suggested above - is low Dex. Any great pistol build must go high Dex, and careful distribution of stats elsewhere. I even dare say, any good pistol build - must be 3 Perception and Versatility, just because it saves so many stat points while going for real high Dex. But that's not a beginner-friendly type of a build...
Last but definitely not least - it's not "either-or" for Pistols and everything else. Like you yourself mentioned, SMGs can complement pistols well - but so can any other gun type. Pistol + sniper rifle is a classic combo, as is pistol and assault rifle. Can also switch setups for specific fights - mix in grenade launcher here and there, for example.
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I think your concern about the dex required to use pistols well is unwarranted, 14 dex is perfectly adequate for pistols at endgame, and it boosts a number of useful skills unlike perception, which only boosts guns.
You can also afford not to put too many points into perception due to the lack of skill requirements and evasion negation inherent to pistols.
When I make pistol builds, I find I have plenty of choice for base stat points even after the essential assignments have been made.
It's quite rewarding for new players to be able to take down a tough enemy and immediately be able to use their weapon, which can make up for the lack of power in early game pistols as well.
Weapons all have drawbacks and sniper rifles are no exception, massive overkilling and paucity of attacks per turn being the main offensive points despite their good range.
ARs make a good fallback weapon once the gap is closed, but at that point I'd rather just use an AR instead of making a slopbuild that's spread far too thin taking feats and base stat points for different weapon types, when I could just be focusing on one and enjoying more of the flavour feats.
Depot A is the great filter for a lot of players, and a weapon type that only starts to get good once you should already be through it is not a good choice for it.
Just because you can level up to use decent feats for it, doesn't mean a newbie stumbling into the place will.
Shooting spree is a good feat, but requires heavy investment in specialization to be so, which is unavailable until long after the early game struggle is over whilst impinging on your other specialization options as a generalist guns build.
There's also the topic of crafting, where pistols are extremely easy to craft in comparison to other weapon types in terms of skill requirements, so more powerful pistols can be crafted at a given skill level than their equivalents for other weapon types.
Low AP shots does indeed mean lower damage per shot, but overall damage output can still be high if you take a lot of them.
Pistols allow for a precise application of firepower that is not reliant on good RNG for hits in a cone of fire like for AR bursts and has a far smaller propensity to waste a ton of potential damage overkilling targets like snipers do - nice feeling of control for new people whilst also still putting out a lot of damage onto potentially many different targets.
I've never understood why people think pistols combo well with anything other than SMGs, their AP usage per shot is appalling with no real investment into dex, which you shouldn't do when using an AR or sniper.
A shotgun is a far more synergistic option for a close range finisher, and only requires one feat to be dominating.
Finally, this is a thread about good builds for newbies, so whether or not pistols gel well with the base stat distribution you have suggested is not particularly meaningful as it is not the final word in good stat distributions.
Not to say it is particularly bad, but there is plenty of room for variation around it whilst remaining beginner-friendly.
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You should take this "build" from the -400 karma kind soul I'm sure it works. :-X
I noticed his karma a while back, frankly I don't get it. I don't hunt down all his posts and but from what I've seen it doesn't seem hyper optimized but I don't really see him posting anything too ridiculously out of line with standard game knowledge. They posted some decent advice on a psychosis psi build I was working on, and I've been cruising my way through Dominating with oddity exp, currently working through expedition taking into account their suggestion. While not following it to a T, it was pretty useful and shifted my approach. This advice seems relatively normal as well. I'm nowhere near a regular poster so maybe there's something I'm missing, it's been bugging me for a while though.
Edit: Shout outs to the people who gave me negative karma for this post lmao I get the picture now.