Underrail Forum
Underrail => Builds => Topic started by: Eidein on May 19, 2025, 01:29:55 pm
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https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g64eackdbMNJttCHGSX2IE9MhalaLuWEeEgeREWcpj8/edit?usp=sharing
Enjoy this tism
Post feedback.
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As soon as I saw the fistfight build on the theme of domination, I immediately knew that you live this game and are serious xD
Seriously, thanks for your work!
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Fists are pretty strong, something like hammer is a true test of will.
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I didn't think of making builds bellow 6 intelligence, even for guns. Seeing most of your tank builds feature 4 is eye-opening. Return to monkey, pump Will, I guess.
I have a couple questions:
1. Is it possible to get total immunity to damage types between Morphine, Aegis, Stoicism, Conditioning, etc.?
2. Is Iron Will a bad feat? 7 Will tank builds don't feature it.
3. How do you level lockpicking? How to determine how much is enough for my build?
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I didn't think of making builds bellow 6 intelligence, even for guns. Seeing most of your tank builds feature 4 is eye-opening. Return to monkey, pump Will, I guess.
I have a couple questions:
1. Is it possible to get total immunity to damage types between Morphine, Aegis, Stoicism, Conditioning, etc.?
2. Is Iron Will a bad feat? 7 Will tank builds don't feature it.
3. How do you level lockpicking? How to determine how much is enough for my build?
Yeah 3 int is my goto on gun builds, melee needs 5 for cheapshots and expose, and psi needs 6-8 for premeditation or psychoneuralflex respectively.
I've beaten a Dom run without dying using 3 int its very strong to have 2-3 more base points to spend.
1. Yes you can become immune to all damage types except mechanical damage, mechanical damage is hard capped at 90% reduction.
2. Yes Iron Willed is a bad feat, I wont go into the maths and whatever but Resolve almost doesnt do anything.
3. Usually if my build doesnt have above say 6+ dex I will just keep lockpicking at 35-40 for opening vents, otherwise I would say 70-90 ish would be a good stopping point. Lockpicking generally isnt valuable at all, pickpocketing gives much more including better oddities. No oddities are locked behind lockpicking you cant get elsewhere. Hacking is important because of consoles.
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Thanks, man. Keep on dominatin'
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Cheers!
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Another one: Why pair sniper rifle with SMG on your Ironman build?
I see why snipers benefit from a sidearm, but why SMG in particular and not, say, firearm or energy pistols?
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Another one: Why pair sniper rifle with SMG on your Ironman build?
I see why snipers benefit from a sidearm, but why SMG in particular and not, say, firearm or energy pistols?
They complement each other well, multi target burst paired with single target 1 shots. You could pair it with regular pistols or an assault rifle but then that completely overshadows the sniper.
If you had firearm pistols (arguably the strongest weapon in the game) why would you even need the sniper? They operate at roughly the same range and pistols 1 shot everything, contrary to the smg.
Smg can also do cool things with sniper like incendiary ammo for the 8.6 procing ambush and fears or moving down lots of shitty enemies. Needing dex for strafe means you can stick only a couple more stat points into dex to bring down the ap of the smg by a decent amount.
TLDR: The weapons dont overshadow each other, and complement each others weaknesses unlike pistol which has none.
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Not closely familiar with power levels in this game, but when you explain it like that it makes sense. Definitely trying out that build in the future, looks fun and versatile.
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Not closely familiar with power levels in this game, but when you explain it like that it makes sense. Definitely trying out that build in the future, looks fun and versatile.
Was the first build I beat dom on without dying, no traps, no psi, no gas, no reloading.
Had a blast and would consider it one of my favourite builds now.
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My barrage of questions continues. On sniper builds, considering you max stealth, isn't specing Snipe ability an overkill? Is it for cool nonspoilerboss one-shot?Or geniunely uselful?
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My barrage of questions continues. On sniper builds, considering you max stealth, isn't specing Snipe ability an overkill? Is it for cool nonspoilerboss one-shot?Or geniunely uselful?
Its the last spec you do but yes id say its useful. No other good specs anyways past both shooting spree ones on smg/sniper this gives you the most value.
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My barrage of questions continues. On sniper builds, considering you max stealth, isn't specing Snipe ability an overkill? Is it for cool nonspoilerboss one-shot?Or geniunely uselful?
Stealth should be maxed even for the sake of sneaking conveniently. And make sure to take Interloper. For a sniper, there are so many benefits as well, like Snipe damage or Ambush crit chance.
Ambush is the easiest to trigger with a sniper due to having the best range, meaning that you are free to choose your vantage point and pick any dark area on the given map as long as you have visual on the target. Ambush also works with single shot weapons, so not with bursts.
I would advise against using SMG's with a sniper as they need you to be close to burst effectively (which you can also use your rifle too anyway) and they won't work with Ambush either. Need high DEX and most importantly - a sidearm should not be used for dealing damage. You already have a rifle and most importantly - WHENEVER you can use your rifle, you SHOULD. It is your best interest to make the kills with your rifle, thus always lower the Aim Shot + Shooting Spree cooldown. That's why using another weapon for damage actually works AGAINST you. A sidearm should provide utility at best and you should aim for cooldown reduction with Tranquility boosted, Future Oriented Temporal Increments and of course maximizing rifle shots.
The PISTOL is the only sidearm that kinda makes sense here. With raising DEX from the necessary 5 (for Strafe) to 7, you can have Gunslinger in exchange for Paranoia that gives +5 Initiative and lowers your AP cost with the handgun. Then by taking Kneecap Shot, you have another cheap and effective CC ability to stop incoming melee enemies and maintain distance. With 7 DEX, you can also grab Quick Tinkering - another handy ability and boost your Traps skill (enemies can circle around your Bear Trap otherwise). Take Trap Expert as well.
For me, it's either this route with a sniper (Traps + Pistol for kneecap shots and initiative) or the very potent psi-sniper (https://stygiansoftware.com/forums/index.php?topic=10837.0).
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My barrage of questions continues. On sniper builds, considering you max stealth, isn't specing Snipe ability an overkill? Is it for cool nonspoilerboss one-shot?Or geniunely uselful?
Stealth should be maxed even for the sake of sneaking conveniently. And make sure to take Interloper. For a sniper, there are so many benefits as well, like Snipe damage or Ambush crit chance.
Ambush is the easiest to trigger with a sniper due to having the best range, meaning that you are free to choose your vantage point and pick any dark area on the given map as long as you have visual on the target. Ambush also works with single shot weapons, so not with bursts.
I would advise against using SMG's with a sniper as they need you to be close to burst effectively (which you can also use your rifle too anyway) and they won't work with Ambush either. Need high DEX and most importantly - a sidearm should not be used for dealing damage. You already have a rifle and most importantly - WHENEVER you can use your rifle, you SHOULD. It is your best interest to make the kills with your rifle, thus always lower the Aim Shot + Shooting Spree cooldown. That's why using another weapon for damage actually works AGAINST you. A sidearm should provide utility at best and you should aim for cooldown reduction with Tranquility boosted, Future Oriented Temporal Increments and of course maximizing rifle shots.
The PISTOL is the only sidearm that kinda makes sense here. With raising DEX from the necessary 5 (for Strafe) to 7, you can have Gunslinger in exchange for Paranoia that gives +5 Initiative and lowers your AP cost with the handgun. Then by taking Kneecap Shot, you have another cheap and effective CC ability to stop incoming melee enemies and maintain distance. With 7 DEX, you can also grab Quick Tinkering - another handy ability and boost your Traps skill (enemies can circle around your Bear Trap otherwise). Take Trap Expert as well.
For me, it's either this route with a sniper (Traps + Pistol for kneecap shots and initiative) or the very potent psi-sniper (https://stygiansoftware.com/forums/index.php?topic=10837.0).
Its a Psiless build, and its perfect.
Its field tested with a successful ironman attempt with very strict rules. The SMG complements the Sniper weakness it doesn't work against it. Pistol Sidearm makes zero sense, they overlap way too much, and it will completely overshadow sniper if given the chance.
The SMG/Sniper build already takes all the shooting spree feats and always opens combat with a round of sniper shots. But once Snipe, Aimed shot, and the 2 ambush crits shots are over you will probably end up fighting semi close range against some enemies.
Take your Traps, TM, Pistol, nonsense elsewhere! We psiless trapless up in here.
For reference here is the ironman of SMG/Sniper
https://youtu.be/vWtdnz4Tnik
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Your Arena burrower fight betrays you. Spending round after round only denting the high DR enemy.
If we want a psi-less build, then using Traps and high initiative cheap Kneecap Shots is the best alternative to employing psionics. You still pretend to not notice that the Pistol is only used here as yet another method of crowd control. Which Traps come in addition. While Increment and Contraction is not necessary in every fight, reducing the cooldown of Aim Shot and Shooting Spree is still the goal, thus using your rifle becomes even more important. While the above abilities can buy you time + you can keep the Ambush going (thus one-shotting enemies) with Molotovs and Incendiary Traps. It's just the better play that actually compliments your sniper approach and maintaining the distance advantage, making you a better sniper. Instead of doing the exact opposite - requiring you to be close and not reducing cooldown.
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Wow using traps and temporal manipulation makes a build stronger? I had no idea!
Like I said its a cheeseless build, pistol of course has more crowd control than smg, it has more everything than smg. That's the point of not using it! If I was being real optimal I would just take concentrated fire and use an assault rifle with my sniper, completely eliminating the need for it (like pistol).
SMG works well with Sniper despite not having any of the tools you mention, evident by the run and video. No traps, no temporal, no deaths. A plain and simple solid build. No cheese required to work.
The burrower fight is literally because I made the mistake of having JHP equipped it has nothing todo with the smg. If a pistol had JHP equipped it would be exactly the same.
The build in question btw: https://underrail.info/build/?HAUICAUOAwPClmQAAChnwpbCgig3AMKCwowtEAAAAAAAAABlATl_TjUCfjdLM0FJwoXCg8K1eGzipKII4q-8BOKvvQHfvg (https://underrail.info/build/?HAUICAUOAwPClmQAAChnwpbCgig3AMKCwowtEAAAAAAAAABlATl_TjUCfjdLM0FJwoXCg8K1eGzipKII4q-8BOKvvQHfvg)
Im not arguing pistol and Temporal manipulation wouldnt be stronger in the build, im arguing those tools are too overpowered and would overshadow the sniper rifle with how universally strong pistol is at all ranges 1 shotting just as hard as sniper does for MUCH lower ap.
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You cannot one-shot a Dreadnought with a pistol, even if you tailor the whole build for the handgun and drop the sniper rifle. You need to Snipe/Aim Shot with armor piercing 12.7mm from a Corsair for that. Pistol can one-shot a crawler spawn or a rathound with normal shots. Regular low armor humans can drop too on lower difficulties - in cases when you get it to crit.
Pistol is not that good as you describe when you don't build your entire build around it. Yet you keep sticking to this idea and base your whole narrative and reasoning to that - effectively arguing with yourself and disregarding my points, which hints that you have nothing to say against them. I clearly mention that we only use it for CC. Here we only have 7 DEX, Gunslinger and Kneecap Shot - that's it. Going psiless frees up more feat slots, so we can also take Sharpshooter that benefits both guns - these two firearms are meant to be together. Hammerer can pack a punch if you're lucky and get high base damage on the lottery, but there's no point in wasting AP using that for CC purposes. You can totally just use even a 5mm Neo Luger. The point is the MP reduction of the enemy and to get the Initiative bonus. Also, a Hammerer shot cost almost as much AP with 7 DEX as a Spearhead - at which point you're far better off using your rifle anyway, even if they would do the same damage (which they won't, especially with the Hammerer damage being so random) solely for the mentioned cooldown reductions and the ability to use it from farther away. There's no point in using pistols for damage when you have a sniper rifle.
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Not going to lie you lost me when you said ambush doesn't work with burst and to take trap expert.
Ambush does work with burst just to let you know.
I will give you an example of what pistols are capable of, and you can tell me if they wouldn't completely overshadow the sniper part of a sniper/pistol build.
https://youtu.be/f-GyGQBN8s0 (https://youtu.be/f-GyGQBN8s0)
I have no doubt about Pistol and Sniper being strong together, but pistol fills the same niches as sniper AND fills its weaknesses. Too high ap cost attacks? - bullet time! enemies close? - no melee penalty! need to move and shoot? - no movement penalty!
Smg does the same but doesn't have the strengths of range, single target damage, good crit damage, and high special attack damage like sniper does, that's why they go well together they cover each others weaknesses instead of overlapping and overshadowing them!
Sniper/pistol is strong especially with your version of traps tm gas and whatever but that's not the point of the build I was trying to make. When I ran this build I couldn't place a 2 layer deep trap wall to stop all enemies from ever reaching me, it was meant to be a sniper build with a sidearm that complements and that's how it is, allowing it to operate at ranges not specifically planned for with meticulous trap placement and stasis. It was the first psiless ironman recorded and its a fantastic build despite being psiless. Perfectly balanced each weapon in harmony with each other.
If I had a pistol with bullet time, ambush, and crit power - where does the sniper fit in? My opening salvo with pistol would be much stronger than with sniper past the first 4 shots, 4ap attacks, 1 shotting each enemy and 2-3 shotting bosses. Sniper would essentially just be a vanity weapon at this point. If your pistol wasn't doing this you were playing very sub optimally, it is not hard for pistol to achieve this even very early on.
Cheers!
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I have seen a pistol rapid-fire a dreadnought to death.
Also I would never spec snipe for a real run; thats for meme numbers only.
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If you had firearm pistols (arguably the strongest weapon in the game) why would you even need the sniper? They operate at roughly the same range and pistols 1 shot everything, contrary to the smg.
They're only the strongest if you build around them, and even then only past the midgame. As a sidearm, you have a fairly-low AP-cost and accurate weapon (for applying kneecap shot) to take down trash mobs or enemies who get too close. Gunslinger gives you a nice initiative boost for when stealth doesnt work. Tygrende liked to use a laser-sight neo-luger for most of the game, switching to a .44 hammerer lategame, and he even took rapid shot for them.
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Yeah he did this back when pistols weren't buffed, and killing enemies close range smg's excel at that too so I'm not sure I see the point.
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Yeah he did this back when pistols weren't buffed, and killing enemies close range smg's excel at that too so I'm not sure I see the point.
I'm certain you don't.
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Not going to lie you lost me when you said ambush doesn't work with burst and to take trap expert.
Trap Expert is a must if you don't want Lurker or Native Hunters and such circle around and even disarming your contraptions below effective 120-140. It's like Interloper for Stealth. You can dash close to an enemy and deploy traps faster before they notice you, stopping them immedaitely - gaining much better distance advantage. Also able to depoy traps around patrolling enemies as well. It's a night and day difference and I assume you never tried it.
I will give you an example of what pistols are capable of, and you can tell me if they wouldn't completely overshadow the sniper part of a sniper/pistol build.
https://youtu.be/f-GyGQBN8s0 (https://youtu.be/f-GyGQBN8s0)
Again, you are trying to reason with a dedicated pistol build when the topic is sidearms for a dedicated sniper build. Since this is the 4-5th occasion in a row now, at this point it's safe to assume that you have either far below average comprehension ability, or intentionally sticking to this for a lack of better option and play dumb, knowing that you are loosing the argument otherwise.
Att this point, I could only repeat myself. Have fun continuing to argue with yourself with made up conversations.
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Yes I dont use trap expert because I dont use traps.
And you have some gaul to call someone bad at comprehension when you didnt realise burst works with ambush. And you still haven't refuted any of my arguments!
Begone trap using, tm abusing, pistol wielding, noob! We are psiless SMG lovers up in here.
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A nitpick but why "Simple AR Tank" features Ambush feat?. Do you drop Tungsten Armor endagame for something lighter? (I assume it's a tungsten armor build because of 9 strength). Or part where it skips evasion justifies the feat by itself, even without crit boost?
And would you consider this build "good"(for Dominating)? I wanted to play ultra-tanky but immovable build and tried LMGs. Damage is bonkers but having to do merchant runs every two rooms to restock ammo is so annoying I kinda dropped the build. But I still want to beat the game as 0 mp guy. Will this build save me some headache?
Also, neither your AR and LMG tanks feature Thick Skull and Last Stand. Aren't those good? I thought Morphine + Last Stand is a goated combo
Edit: Wait, NVM, I've re-read ambush and it should give 20% bonus crit even with 0 effective stealth. Holy hell this feat is overloaded.
Edit 2: I'm asking if build is good for Dominating on build in a a topic that is called "A build (or three) for every weapon (Dominating approved)". Are we cooked, chat?
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A nitpick but why "Simple AR Tank" features Ambush feat?. Do you drop Tungsten Armor endagame for something lighter? (I assume it's a tungsten armor build because of 9 strength). Or part where it skips evasion justifies the feat by itself, even without crit boost?
And would you consider this build "good"(for Dominating)? I wanted to play ultra-tanky but immovable build and tried LMGs. Damage is bonkers but having to do merchant runs every two rooms to restock ammo is so annoying I kinda dropped the build. But I still want to beat the game as 0 mp guy. Will this build save me some headache?
Also, neither your AR and LMG tanks feature Thick Skull and Last Stand. Aren't those good? I thought Morphine + Last Stand is a goated combo
Edit: Wait, NVM, I've re-read ambush and it should give 20% bonus crit even with 0 effective stealth. Holy hell this feat is overloaded.
Edit 2: I'm asking if build is good for Dominating on build in a a topic that is called "A build (or three) for every weapon (Dominating approved)". Are we cooked, chat?
Yes AR has less trouble with ammo, pickpocketing also gives you a metric ton of ammo which is why the build takes it even with bad dex.
Thick skull isn't a good feat, you are a indestructible tank why should you care if you get stunned? Taking thick skull turns any 1 turn stun into a multiple turn daze, this isnt a good trade, its better to just tank the stun and save a feat. Not to mention how little stuns there are in underrail, mental breakdown is an incap, flashbangs is an incap, net is a root, trap is a root. The only true deadly stuns are sledgehammer 20% chance to stun and coil spiders.
Last stand is fine but its not very important, I often find myself taking it then never using it. Just use morphine right at the start of combat.
And yes Assault rifle is the all-round strongest weapon in the game so you will be fine on DOM (I hope).
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And yes Assault rifle is the all-round strongest weapon in the game so you will be fine on DOM (I hope).
There is no Hope, only misery... I'm in a weird place where Hard plays too easy to be enjoyable, but dominating is annoying to pull trough no matter the build. Thank you once again. Your guides are goated.
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And yes Assault rifle is the all-round strongest weapon in the game so you will be fine on DOM (I hope).
There is no Hope, only misery... I'm in a weird place where Hard plays too easy to be enjoyable, but dominating is annoying to pull trough no matter the build. Thank you once again. Your guides are goated.
Im sure you will manage, goodluck!