Underrail Forum
Underrail => Bugs => Topic started by: Toast on January 05, 2016, 11:30:16 pm
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There is currently dispute about what must be done to ally with the Faceless. No one seems to be able to do it without letting them kill Buzzer, yet that does not seem to be the intent of the game code that has been found. Please see this thread for details: http://underrail.com/forums/index.php?topic=1763.0
Here's an entire history of my interactions with them:
--disabled the plasma sentries, snuck into Buzzer's shop, let them read my mind, convinced them to leave and spare Buzzer
--helped them in Foundry by honestly telling them everything I knew, they left peacefully and thanked me
--saved the guy in Core City, gave him a high quality health hypo
--dude showed up at the Institute to warn me to leave, I attempted to do so but the game doesn't continue unless you go and squeal to Eidein, sigh
--sat there twiddling my thumbs and doing nothing at all while the Faceless and Tchortists fought each other, then bravely ran away on the elevator
In essence I did every single thing possible to help them and nothing to harm them, ever, yet they still tell me I am "not an ally." Unless disabling the plasma sentries or using Persuasion to save Buzzer have some negative effect, there is no way they should be neutral to me. I just can't figure it out, and it's frustrating as hell.
It would be a great help to many people to get official clarification on this matter!
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+1
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I think there's a bug where it doesn't count if you persuaded the Faceless to let Buzzer live, only if you let them kill him off. We'll look into it.
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Please make fix work retroactively (as long as player hasnt gotten into end game part).
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Please make fix work retroactively (as long as player hasnt gotten into end game part).
We'll see what we can do.
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Thanks.
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Much appreciated, Styg.
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Is there a console code to set the faceless to max disposition?
Just in case and in order to allow me to keep playing instead of waiting on a patch :)
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;)
Can has update on this one?
Many players (on steam forum I saw) have stopped playing just because of this, it's worse than an engine bug :))
Or a console code which sets faceless to allies
thanks!
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As I mentioned earlier in the other thread, there is a way to be allied with faceless and ultimately save Buzzer, even with this bug. I suppose nobody has figured that one out yet...
Could this be perhaps a situation where you do the quest in Foundry first with Hugo and find out about Cornell before doing the quests for Rail Crossing, and then as a result can inform the Faceless Mindreader or something? I don't actually know, I'm just guessing what other solutions may exist.
Anyway, I think it's pretty awesome that there are still options out there that we don't know about. Just goes to show how expansive this game is! ;)
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Good or not, they're not as pretentious as those Tchortist morons, that makes them clearly a candidate to join.
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As I mentioned earlier in the other thread, there is a way to be allied with faceless and ultimately save Buzzer, even with this bug. I suppose nobody has figured that one out yet...
Hey Epeli, could you please be more specific about what that way would be? I stopped playing until the bug was fixed, but if there is another way to get an alliance with them AND save Buzzer without picking the persuasion option, I'd be able to resume my playthrough. When I first saw you post I thought it might have something to do with the Foundry's Faceless quest, but when interacting with the mindreader my only option was to either intimidate/persuade him or let Buzzer die. =/
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So, in the end, the only way not to botch the alliance and still save Buzzard is to ignore the quest until much later in the game or wait for the patch. Oh well, that's sad to hear, but thanks a lot for the answer anyway. Is there any ETA on the next update?
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Sounds like the same kind of doing-things-in-order problem that also messes up the Oculus questline, where doing Jack Quicksilver's delivery job in SGS potentially bars the player from unlocking Azif, even with a perfect score in all 3 preceeding quests. This definitely needs to be looked into.
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I think we found the problem. If anyone has a save after persuading the mindreader to spare Buzzer's life (and before arriving to DC), please post it here so that we can test it properly. The fix should be retroactive, btw.
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I think we found the problem. If anyone has a save after persuading the mindreader to spare Buzzer's life (and before arriving to DC), please post it here so that we can test it properly. The fix should be retroactive, btw.
I have a save that should work here. How can I send them to you?
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Here you go:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/iv1s0cs92rfaiw7/3.rar?dl=0&preview=3.rar
Sneaked into the shop and persuaded the mindreader, helped the group near the Foundry, saved the caged Faceless and gave him and adv. hypo. Never killed a single one.
I'm right before speaking to Eidein for the 1st time.
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I'm already down in DC (though deliberately haven't talked to the Facebook commander yet). I presume that by that point there won't be any retroactive effect that far down the road?
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I think we found the problem. If anyone has a save after persuading the mindreader to spare Buzzer's life (and before arriving to DC), please post it here so that we can test it properly. The fix should be retroactive, btw.
Here is the save:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1i1g4yoc3chw6qi/ur-save.zip?dl=0
Saved Buzzer with persuasion (plasma walkers disabled), completed main quest in Core City. Never entered Foundry area, nor antagonized any Faceless.
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Fixed for the next patch. Did some testing with your saves and things seem to be behaving as they should. So, persuading the mindreader to let Buzzer live will no longer affect the player's score in DC negatively, and those who did just that need not worry as long as they haven't talked to the Faceless commander yet. Those of you who avoided talking to him can do so after the patch rolls out.
However, this bug could've also prevented some of you from even being allowed to enter the Faceless territory, as the two checkpoints are where the Faceless check whether the player has helped them in either RC or Foundry; those who did only RC, and resolved it by using persuasion, were most likely forbidden from passing through due to this bug. Sadly, there is no way to redo any of these failed checks.
Thanks for the saves (and the patience), and sorry about this nasty "feature."
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Just to be totally clear ------
the patch IS reteroactive (but only for the purpose of allying with the faceless, not for the purpose of entering their territory) ?
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Does killing Faceless in Underrail make them hostile to you in DC?
I wanted to talk to Faceless group near Core City but they attacked me! Other Faceless gorups weren't hostile. I had to defend myself. It wasn't my fault :-\
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I'm also curious. I have killed all faceless in the Buzzer's shop. But nowhere else and I did save the faceless guy in the cage. Does it mean there is now way to make them not hostile in late game?
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Uh, I don't think it works as it should.
I did everything to be friendly with them (persuaded the mindreader, helped the caged Faceless, helped the group near Foundry, never killed a single one), but speaking to Commander makes them hostile now.
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Uh, I don't think it works as it should.
I did everything to be friendly with them (persuaded the mindreader, helped the caged Faceless, helped the group near Foundry, never killed a single one), but speaking to Commander makes them hostile now.
Oh man.
So that's it? game stopper?
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Definetly going to wait until it's fixed.
I don't want to sound rude or ungrateful because I know fixing bugs is not easy and time consuming, but I feel like recent hotfixes put too much emphasis on the "hot" part and not nearly enough on "fix".
Romans heart attack was "fixed" by making him disappear, Creeping Dread was "balanced" by making it possible to get rid of it entirely with an exploit, and now this. I would rather wait a little longer than get get more bugs with each hotfix.
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Thanks for the saves (and the patience), and sorry about this nasty "feature."
If debugging is the act of removing bugs from software, then programming is the act of adding bugs to software. Have no shame! We appreciate your diligence, and if this issue is not fixed in 1.0.0.8, you can always fix the fix. ;D
Also folks, please remember that this is a 3 person team (unless I am mistaken), and it can sometimes take several hours to debug, find, solve, and test a single issue. Patience.
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I guess I'll put my game on hold as well (unless someone can fix my save)
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OP here. After the hotfix, I am now able to ally with the Faceless as expected.
I restarted from a save I made at the very beginning of the Deep Caverns and went immediately to the Faceless camp, and the commander told me he trusted me and gave me permission to roam the camp and so forth. I don't know what's gone wrong for the rest of you and I'm sorry it's not working! But the fix works for me. Perhaps some more investigation is needed, but don't just put the game on hold without trying your own save.
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OP here. After the hotfix, I am now able to ally with the Faceless as expected.
I restarted from a save I made at the very beginning of the Deep Caverns and went immediately to the Faceless camp, and the commander told me he trusted me and gave me permission to roam the camp and so forth. I don't know what's gone wrong for the rest of you and I'm sorry it's not working! But the fix works for me. Perhaps some more investigation is needed, but don't just put the game on hold without trying your own save.
Works for me, too! :D
Thanks so much, devs! <3
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@Tygrende Did you perhaps speak to the Tchortists before going over to the Faceless outpost? If you agreed to perform a certain job for them the Faceless will find that out and won't like it; the commander's response should be clear on why they are hostile toward you if that is the case. I remember using your save when I was testing the fix and your character passed the check, but there is always a possibility of some other bug being present.
Glad to see others have had more luck, though.
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I did speak to the Tchortists first. Not sure if I agreed to scout for them, but it's possible.
It's strange though. I mean, I pretty much joined the Tchortists before and performed a number of tasks for them and Faceless have no problem with that. Also, if I remember correctly taking the scouting quest *after* talking to them first didn't change anything, so I assumed it's not related.
Going to check again right now.
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Yup, if I speak to them first they are friendly. Thanks and sorry for being so quick to judge.
But I don't think taking the quest from Tchortists should make them immediately hostile even if you did everything to help them up to this point. After all I did to them I doubt they have a reason to suspect me, who is to say I was honest when talking to Tchortists?
If anything, the Commander should ask if what you said back there was true.
If you say it's true, they turn hostile. If not, the Commander will order the mind readers to check you next time you come back to make sure you aren't lying.
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Yup, if I speak to them first they are friendly. Thanks and sorry for being so quick to judge.
But I don't think taking the quest from Tchortists should make them immediately hostile even if you did everything to help them up to this point. After all I did to them I doubt they have a reason to suspect me, who is to say I was honest when talking to Tchortists?
If anything, the Commander should ask if what you said back there was true.
If you say it's true, they turn hostile. If not, the Commander will order the mind readers to check you next time you come back to make sure you aren't lying.
That is not the style of the Faceless. The Faceless don't bother trying to interpret the crafty wordplay of the Underrail scum. They read your mind because they know it won't lie to them. In addition, the Faceless are not concerned with the minor possibility that you may, indeed, have been deceitful towards the Tchortists, just like they were not concerned with the innocent lives lost in the invasion of Core City in their mission to recover their shiny toy. They are actually totally unconcerned with the welfare of outsiders and if they have any reason to suspect you harbor hostile intent towards them, they will consider you surplus to requirements.
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They read your mind because they know it won't lie to them.
They should know I was lying when talking to Tchortists then. And they really are not that ruthless, else they wouldn't waste their precious resources o keeping Lora alive.
And even if that was the case, there should be a [lie] option when accepting the reconnaissance quest. You know what my point is, just because I said I'm going to do something doesn't mean I'm actually going to, and the game should take that into account.
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They read your mind because they know it won't lie to them.
They should know I was lying when talking to Tchortists then.
Not even the game knows that, as things stand! How could the commander know? Besides, we don't know how the mindreader works. Maybe he just sees the scene of you accepting the quest, divorced of its context, and jumps to conclusion. Maybe he can only view your memories as a movie, without understanding your feelings and motivations.
And they really are not that ruthless, else they wouldn't waste their precious resources o keeping Lora alive.
I've never been able to find out why they kept Lora alive, but based on what I've seen so far, they are ruthless murderers, and not even one good deed changes that.
And even if that was the case, there should be a [lie] option when accepting the reconnaissance quest.
Alright, that's a possibility, but then you should also be forbidden from actually completing the quest, since your in-game character does not intend to help them. After all, otherwise you are just gaming the system, aren't you?
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Besides, we don't know how the mindreader works. Maybe he just sees the scene of you accepting the quest, divorced of its context, and jumps to conclusion. Maybe he can only view your memories as a movie, without understanding your feelings and motivations.
Faceless don't jump to conclusions. As you said, it's not their style, they act calm and consider every possibility.
I've never been able to find out why they kept Lora alive, but based on what I've seen so far, they are ruthless murderers, and not even one good deed changes that.
They kept her alive because there was no reason not to help her. They are only ruthless murderers when it's absolutely needed, not because they like to be. The cube is a big deal for them and extremaly dangerous in wrong hands, so they had to take drastic measures. If they were as bad as you picture them Lora would be dead as soon after they would get all the info they need from her, and group near the Fondry would attack you as soon as you give them info as well.
Alright, that's a possibility, but then you should also be forbidden from actually completing the quest, since your in-game character does not intend to help them. After all, otherwise you are just gaming the system, aren't you?
That's correct, that's why I think the Commander ordering the mindreaders to check you next time you come back is a better idea. You helped them numerous times and are a valueable asset, so it's reasonable to give you that much benefit of a doubt. No matter if they are baby-eating monsters or not, you don't kill a valueable ally based on suspicion.
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Uh oh... I "accepted" the mission from the Tchortists (after talking to the Faceless and allying with them). I never had any intentions of helping the Tchortists, I was just lying to them so they'd sell me stuff. I hope the Faceless don't have any plans to read my thoughts again between now and the end of the game. :-\
Allying with the Faceless is such a fiddly task already that it seems a shame to be able to accidentally scuttle it so easily in DC. At this point it almost seems like you're not really meant to do it on a first playthrough. I'm not sure if that was intended or not, but good grief they are picky about their friends.
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Ok, I finally got to Deep Caverns and can confirm that Faceless are friendly to me.
Disabled plasma walkers, accepted mind read, prevented Buzzer death, given information to Foundry Faceless.
The only thing that can spoil everything is in the Deep Caverns itself, as noted in post above.
Do not ask to do any tasks for Tchortists in Deep Caverns. Faceless will interpret this as working for the enemy.
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Ok, I finally got to Deep Caverns and can confirm that Faceless are friendly to me.
Disabled plasma walkers, accepted mind read, prevented Buzzer death, given information to Foundry Faceless.
The only thing that can spoil everything is in the Deep Caverns itself, as noted in post above.
Do not ask to do any tasks for Tchortists in Deep Caverns. Faceless will interpret this as working for the enemy.
Can you plz tell me if Faceless are blue to you or still gray? Do you have access to their shop or just limited supplies?
Their commander told me they are happy with what i've done so far and want to continue our collaboration. But i'm not sure if it means i'm allied with them.
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There is no such thing as their shop.
But one of the Centaurs can give you ammo supplies.
Also, you can enter in all their buildings.
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Thanks. Looks like i'm allied with them.
In case someone wants to know: i did what player1 did and also killed their patrol near CC.