Underrail Forum
Underrail => General => Topic started by: Ravager on August 12, 2019, 01:32:58 am
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I just finished Expedition, and like a number of people, am thinking about Underrail 2. I'm not sure if there will be more DLC, as this one took a long time to make, and it is hard to situate new DLC in an existing game. (Like, where in the game does the DLC become available, and how does it affect game balance?)
Underrail 2 is a long way off, most people say. I'm not in a hurry, so I'm okay with that. Since Styg may have a whole development team now, as well as an existing engine and graphical assets, he has some advantages he didn't have previously.
With that in mind, I am thinking of a few (potential) features of Underrail 2.
1. Graphics
The original graphics, and even font, of Underrail, are very unique. But they were a little more 'lo-fi' than they had to be, because Styg was originally using MS Paint for UI, maps, and other assets.
I understand that they are also using 3D models and prerendering them into the game?
Whatever the case, it should be possible to have improved graphics, while still sticking to the art style.
The artist that joined development later on had to hold his talents back because his artwork had to match Styg's earlier style.
But with an artist on-board from the beginning, the art could be more hi-fi for Underrail 2, without changing the art style. There'd be no toning down of the art assets as there was in Underrail 1.
You could use the same engine, even, and still get more defined art.
Second, an area for improvement could be lighting. The lighting system is great, but the use of gradient squares to indicate light availability is a bit mechanical. The gradient / dithering could apply more smoothly, and a square grid could be overlaid based on user preference. If using a new / updated engine, I think that lighting would or should be a key priority.
Third, there could be greater transparency and area effects for lasers, torches, and the like. Maybe a more subdued palette [gray/blue like most of underrail] but with a greater emphasis on smooth lighting. Instead of garish colours to denote everything.
2. Stealth and suspicion
Underrail has one of the more functional stealth systems, but it could still use improvement. Enemies could have more levels of escalation between found/not found. Styg added a level of escalation, high suspicion, in recent builds, which is great. The suspicion level of enemies could give them a greater array of responses and patrolling behaviours.
I remember in early release builds when enemies would not really react much to seeing their friends suddenly dead. It was all too easy to learn enemy patrol routes and eliminate an entire base one-by-one.
Multiple levels of alert and suspicion could add variety and realism.
Some users have also said that they would be happier with more indicators of their stealth status than just the portrait / stealth rating.
There are also some weird quirks with the existing stealth system, involving coming in and out of stealth. Like, you can't eat while stealthed, because that is too noisy. But you could change outfits while remaining stealthed!
The annoying part, for me, was that going in and out of elevators automatically took you out of stealth, removing all the hard work you did getting there. Isn't it possible to enter an elevator quietly, somehow? Maybe that needs to be implemented.
More important, using a console gets you out of stealth. This is a big one. Someone on Steam remarked that one of the best parts of using stealth in Underrail is hacking a terminal or something while hiding from the enemy gaze. It's very time sensitive and satisfying. So why can't you do that with a computer? I remember in DC it was so annoying that I'd stealth my way through that robot building, and then in the Eastern section I'd have to use a terminal, and so I'd come out of stealth and the freaking robot in another room would see me through the glass. Surely, I can use a console while stealthed? It should just reduce your stealth rating, or make hacking less efficient, or something.
Finally, stealth is too easy if you have a high rating. I can take my character with 180 pounds of gear and stealth them through populated, guarded areas. Shouldn't all that crap you are carrying affect stealth? There could be a more common-sense approach. You need to be light-footed. Not too encumbered, not having too many utilities hanging off you, and needing light, muffled footwear. Maybe even reflectivity should be a concern.
3. Shields
Styg has repeatedly said he wants to alter shield mechanics. Right now, there's not much of a tradeoff. Shields protect you, so it's better to have them on. But I get that he's maybe thinking of a more Dune dynamic [he's halfway there already, with slow weapons penetrating more easily], where maybe it amplifies certain types of weapons against you while blocking others. Or maybe affects your perception/aim, or your own weapons' effectiveness.
It will be tricky to retrofit such changes into Underrail 1, so maybe most of it should be saved for the sequel. A clean slate makes it much easier to rework shield mechanics.
4. Less emphasis on ventilation duct cheapness / More emphasis on duct integration with storyline
I enjoyed sneaking around ventilation ducts throughout Underrail. I often played stealth glass cannons, so hiding from enemies and observing them from the security of the ducts was very fun.
But it got old, to the point where it's pretty much mandatory or expected to run into the ducts as soon as you see them. That's how I felt in the Grey Army Bunker.
It's not supposed to be so much of a cliche.
If we're using ducts in Underrail 2, maybe make them more gradient in terms of their engagement with the rest of the level. Can people outside the duct line hear you moving around, if you are too fast / heavy / unmuffled? Can they hear you shooting rats in there? Will they open up a duct and throw a grenade in?
Also, if some ducts are hard / impossible to open, could you maybe trick an NPC into opening one by causing them to think there is a problem there? The NPCs could interact with the ducts more.
Look, I understand that ventilation ducts are tied to the lore. We learn in Expedition, and especially from Styg's recent comments, that air purification is a big issue in Underrail. There must be massive systems to generate and purify air. So that's a story advantage. Ducts are important in Underrail, which is kind of shocking that they're so neglected by NPCs and organizations.
Maybe tie them closer into the storyline. Quests involving ducts and air purification. Factions living in / abusing ducts. Make them more part of the story, instead of something neglected and forgotten that you can easily exploit. [The ducts being an easy transit made some sense in GMS compound and parts of Junkyard, since in GMS especially, you are dealing with non-sentient robots on predetermined patrol routes. But human enemies should be more alert to and aware of the ducts].
5. Weapon crafting system
Underrail already has one of the most satisfying crafting systems in existence. So there isn't much to radically rework here. But I think guns in particular would benefit from
-A crafting feat that allows an extra improvement slot [other weapons would benefit from this, as well]
-a more universal silencer system. Not just 5mm, but all calibres, but it reduces damage, and possibly range and accuracy.
-this is more radical, but maybe better weapon part quality doesn't simple scale up your damage / item quality. In real life, you can have a beat-up junker AK-47 that hits just about as hard as a factory-new one. The real-life difference would be in accuracy and reliability. So maybe the base weapon parts affect reliability and accuracy, and also range a little, but not so much in terms of damage.
So I guess I'm talking about realistic gun crafting. The frame components affect the general build quality, modifying accuracy and reliability, and to a lesser degree range. Base damage is less variable in a given calibre and barrel length. And parts could be more meaningful: match barrel, pencil barrel, heavy barrel, short barrel, long barrel would all have their impact.
Likewise, as others have indicated, the type of 'handle' for various melee weapons could also lead to different results, making it more meaningful to include.
Also, it would be cool to be able to 'name' your weapon after a certain point, just like there are legendary weapons in other RPGs.
6. Headwear
There's lots of cool headwear options to pick from. But is it really necessary to lose your goggles because you are wearing a gas mask? Mixing and matching those items should lead to lots of fun. There could be a toggle where you either have no helmet, just a hat + goggles + gas mask [don't have to have all three], or you could have a helmet that integrates the hat + goggles + gas mask options.
In short, even with the existing engine, a lot of this could be implemented. But I think a clean sequel could modify the existing engine, and just utilize more high-resolution art assets. And changes to the lighting system.
Anyway, I'm not the one in charge here, and don't expect this to be taken too seriously. I wonder what other people's priorities are for improvements in the sequel.
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a couple more...
7. Hank Wardell
I loved learning about Hank Wardell, and Expedition fleshed out this story hilariously. I get that he's supposed to be another 'PC.' He treats NPCs like a PC would, and they react in a surprised fashion. He's from North Underrail, I believe? You could learn more about his heroic journey, which ended up with him doing heroic stuff in Lemuria. Maybe he's the guy who led those mutants from Depot A all the way to Lemuria?
This whole concept could be expanded upon by having an active 'PC' or 'PC team' softly competing with you. The idea had been toyed with for the unmade Fallout successor by Black Isle's team. Like if you don't execute some quests well or quickly enough, the alternate 'PC team' will do it for you. Like what if there was this other group of jerks running around and solving quests? What motivates them?
8. Subdued skill checks / Small skill escalations
Many skill checks are I / O binary options, where you succeed or fail. You could have partial success, where part of an outcome [such as lowering a price or demanding items] is achieved - without you even knowing that it was only a partial success. Right now Underrail handles that through multiple options to request / demand more or less.
But I'm thinking of something more subtle and potentially widespread: the inclusion of more 'small' skill checks that aid a quest or outcome, but in a small way.
If memory serves, in some games like Age of Decadence, probably A.T.O.M RPG, and also New Vegas, at times, skills such as speech were not always treated as insta-win. You could use speech to lower the difficulty of a quest, but not insta-win. So you could talk down what people demanded from you in a fetch quest, for instance, but not avoid the quest itself. Or you could make hacking easier by casually talking to someone and finding out more about the password / solution. So speech could aid hacking. Or hacking could aid speech, by giving you more information. Underrail is already pretty good at this [witness the murder in SGS quest, for example], but it could be taken even further.
9. More interpersonal NPC quests / drivers
There's a great town in Fallout 1.5: Resurrection, based on towns like "The Den" from the original Fallouts. There's two crime factions struggling to control the town. Helping one or the other involves talking to a lot of people to find out about an old murder, finding out how to influence a gravedigger, searching through graves, doing poison analysis, passing high speech checks (if you are built for that) or at least using speech to lessen the difficulty of the quest, and eventually a gang-fight.
Later in the game, you have to find out about some plot against the leader of a powerful faction. There's seedy investigation of basements, running to the site of a murder just minutes too late, thinking hard about what faction heads are telling you, even thinking hard about who the faction heads really are, and revealing a big deception.
These quests don't involve any ventilation ducts, and not much in the way of sewers. It's about parsing information, really listening to people, thinking for yourself, and maybe trying to stay a step ahead of a killer.
Underrail already expects you to pay attention to your surroundings, to read everything, and even to read between the lines. So it's way more advanced than most 'RPGs.' But I think interpersonal dynamics could be stretched out more. There are conflicts and tensions and relationships and histories between even small factions, and this could be explored in greater detail in the sophisticated and storied hubs of North Underrail. It's a great environment to get sucked up into other people's factional wars, and expose some hidden players.
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COMPANIONS
Absolutely need a party based system. Recruit NPC companions to journey and fight with you. Some will have different skills, motivations and determination. If you do something they don't like they will lose loyalty to you and may leave. Hard challenges that have a high risk of death (Tchort) will cause them to leave your party unless you've raised their loyalty to you. Some party members are faction specific.
COMPANIONS111!
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North Underrail (Dis, Hexxagon etc) is the only improvement I need.
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2. Stealth and suspicion
I'd just like to see more options to re-stealth during fight.
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Yeah. Re-stealth is vital to a proper stealth character. Right now, it's a big deal if you can successfully re-stealth during Arena combat. I think you even get a nickname if you do it prominently enough.
A real ninja / assassin / commando type character would be restealthing in combat more regularly and with greater ease in dark underpassages and abandoned bunkers.
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Less RNG when it comes to item quality, or at least a way to improve quality
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Has underrail 2 been confirmed? I figured we'd get 1 or 2 more dlc campaigns before there was a need for a new game.
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I will definitely buy whatever they release DLC or full game.
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Silencers actually increase accuracy in real life.
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We need more katanas in the game /s
To be more serious, I feel like the game might benefit from a couple key characters that have actual relationships with our main character. Like right now we meet a bunch of people but don't feel connect to any of them, since we complete their quest and never see them again., so it feels very lonely, not sure if that's intentional.
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COMPANIONS
Absolutely need a party based system. Recruit NPC companions to journey and fight with you. Some will have different skills, motivations and determination. If you do something they don't like they will lose loyalty to you and may leave. Hard challenges that have a high risk of death (Tchort) will cause them to leave your party unless you've raised their loyalty to you. Some party members are faction specific.
COMPANIONS111!
Stygy said already that the game will base on a SINGLE party system. You are alone. But much more powerful than the NPCs. A multiparty system would make the game to easy or they would need to nerf the player itself. Which could ruin the fun.
-Azura
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Has underrail 2 been confirmed? I figured we'd get 1 or 2 more dlc campaigns before there was a need for a new game.
As far as i know, they planned to make more DLCs (about north underrail (maybe even the dc with the faceless capital) etc.) instead of a Underrail 2.
I don't think they will create an second game anytime soon. They'll just make new dlcs to expand the story and content. You'll just need to wait 3-4 years till a new DLC comes out. ;)
-Azura
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I would love to see companions as well with a very limited part size (2 or 3 people including PC) so that balancing encounters wouldn't bee to much of a hassle.
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Some improve in animation system. Specificaly - battle stances with melee, and guns raised (like Jagged Alliance 2, btw the same mechanics of AP costs for raising weapons perfectly fit for Underrail).
Better sounds for weapons.
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Wait, i got it... MODS!, like that other post apocalyptic game
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+1 for MODS
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I'm excited for whatever StygSoft's next project is.
Buy more copies of Expedition!!! Give them all the resources!!! <3
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+1 for MODS
You can still quite mod the game a bit.
If you have to know how to understand hex, you can mod the files, after you unpacked them with the unpacker. (But i don't have the link. :( )
You can mess a bit with the cheatengine. There are some tables that allow you to edit items. (I made some cool items with the editor.)
We could ask Styg about the moddingtools because now that the dlc is complete, they should have quite some time to create the modding tools.
But like someone else said, with every time someone buys the game or the dlc, they have more money. More money = more recources they can use.
-Azura
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Mods would be a fantastic addition to the game. A dedicated modding community would be incredible.
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6. Headwear
There's lots of cool headwear options to pick from. But is it really necessary to lose your goggles because you are wearing a gas mask? Mixing and matching those items should lead to lots of fun. There could be a toggle where you either have no helmet, just a hat + goggles + gas mask [don't have to have all three], or you could have a helmet that integrates the hat + goggles + gas mask options.
Yeah I would very much like to see more headwear, and more types, bandanas, ball caps, ushankas...perhaps something with more protection than a balaclava but not as much as metal helmets. Something midway like leather boots are inbetween metal helmets and tabi boots. I would also like to see them displayed on your character, rather than the default headwear, or even no head wear on whatever outfit you're wearing.
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Improved inventory management.
You could make a list of items you want to keep in your backpack. With one click of a button all other items get transferred to a container. Or on the ground.
There would be an option to specify how many items of given type you want to keep, e.g. 4 Frag Grenade MK III.
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Off the top of my head, in no particular order
Modern resolution support
I started the game @QXGA (2560x1600) resolution, then I learned you basically have to play at the lowest resolution. Many interactable objects such as doors, switches, fishing rod are only a couple of pixels big and are both hard to see or click. I have to turn down resolution and/or slow mouse speed down to click that one pixel...
Inventory management
In games where scavenging and carry weight is such an integral part of the game. It would really help to have some basic QOL things such as
*total tab weight (Total WT of components, weapons, meds) so you can quickly see what is weighing you down.
*Sorting by WT, Value, New
*Visible Quality of components in assembled items (what gameplay benefit is there to hide it?)
*compare items (green plus arrows, red minus arrows, and difference?)
Reramped detection/stealth/sound
A silenced 5mm kill breaks stealth and enters combat? but I can snipe with a 12.7 from 20 tiles away and they just want to see what the sound was? Why does stealing something undetected = auto hostile? (ex. muties). Misclicking an npc owned item that is right next to npc... can't I get a warning unless I actually take something?
Better combat feedback
I've finished DC and currently finishing the expansion on hard. It is not always clear which NPCS/creatures are armored or unarmored. There are different color shields but I don't care because of EMP. Enemy resistances? Unless they are highly resistant (50+) it doesn't matter just cast/shoot more.
Screen Transitions
I'm running the game off an SSD and it takes longer to load the next zone than jetskiing across it @5x Speed... 3 seconds of jetskiing, 10 seconds load, 3 seconds, 10 seconds...
Pacifism
Right now we can sometimes not be a mass murderer... Why can't I stun/tranquilize to end fights?
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Silencers actually increase accuracy in real life.
Suppressors increase accuracy in real life. Silencers don't actually exist.
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Better enemy/ally AI is the biggest one, I think.
Traps and psi need some work to not be so broken.
Personally I would love the option to zoom in and out.
And allow tichrome crowbars pls, thnx.
Silencers actually increase accuracy in real life.
Suppressors increase accuracy in real life. Silencers don't actually exist.
Right, right, and it's "magazines", not "clips", and it's "trigger discipline" and not "common sense". Autism is a terrible burden, anon, you have my condolences.
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Autism is a terrible burden, anon, you have my condolences.
And you have mine, I've seen all your posts in the spelling/grammar thread. A terrible burden indeed.
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- Less tedium. Currently, to make your character as powerful as possible, you should pick up all saleable items you find, lug them across possibly dozens of screens (without quick-travelling, because there's a cost to using it) to a merchant, sell as much as they're willing and sufficiently solvent to buy, and as long as you have any items left, wait until the shop resets or go to another one and try to continue selling. With the money you make from this, you buy the best items you can theoretically get and use at the moment, which most likely will again involve waiting for shops to reset multiple times. While this may be too mind-numbing for anyone to actually do even with speedhack, the way the game works incentivises approximating this behaviour as far as the player can tolerate it and as long as there is anything to spend additional money on. Free quick-travel, perhaps with more available locations, and shop inventories not changing based on the passing of time would remove major sources of boredom and frustration.
- The skill system could use some changes. First and foremost, some skills are only used for checks against fixed values, and if you don't know exactly what you're doing, it's all too easy to invest useless points beyond the value of the highest of those checks in those skills. Also, Throwing is a bit weird if you use it for grenades in that the amount of skill points you need to invest in it to be able to use it reliably doesn't depend on your level.
- Real-time and turn-based mode should better correspond to each other, or the need for such correspondence should be reduced. Ideally, either all actions should be possible in either mode with their costs in action points and in time being equivalent (which could eliminate the need for combat to happen in turn-based mode), or most of them (with exceptions only for basic things like movement) should only be possible in one mode.
- More information. Sometimes I forget what parts of a complex quest I've already completed, or whether an enemy type I've fought before has a certain immunity or resistance, or I'd like to know the details of the recipe or ability that a blueprint or psionic mentor I could buy would teach me, or how the weapons craftable from different types of frame or mold I could buy would differ. While I can figure out all of these through trial and error or most of them by reading the wiki, I see no reason why the game couldn't just tell me.
- I expect there to only be one experience mode in Underrail 2, probably closer to oddity than classic. Personally, I wouldn't really mind if it were exactly like oddity mode, but I'd prefer a little more focus on quests and less on exploration, and perhaps a system directly awarding skill points rather than (or, if levels and feats would be handled separately from skill points, in addition to) experience.
- More personality and individuality for the player character. Not having to share portraits and character models with NPCs would be nice, as would optional background or personality traits (similar to feats but not strictly advantageous), or having appropriate feats (such as Paranoia or Stoicism) occasionally affect dialogue options.
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As others have mentioned, better inventory management, some QoL changes at least when it comes to traveling, a built in notebook would also be nice if the quest log stays as it is.
My biggest peeve is how allies react to your actions though. It needs to stop being 0 to 100, if I'm allied with someone they shouldn't be instantly shooting me the moment I enter a restricted area or pick up an item from a container that's not mine. Fallout New Vegas' reputation system dealt with this pretty well IIRC, it would keep track all of your relevant actions to a faction (positive or negative) and somewhat add them up to give you your rep with that faction, now of course it doesn't have to be exactly like that but it I would appreciate if the Black Eels who are in power only because of my hard work didn't instantly try to exterminate my ass the instant my foot touches a restricted area pixel.
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I know I am going to sound really bloody salty but realistically long lasting night vision battery life xD JK
I guess more of anywhere in this universe is grand eg. The rail connecting to UV filtering Biodomes on the surface in the north, deep sea settlements in marianas trench connecting to the cyberpunk dystopian hexagon with body modded horrors ect. The jet skis are also fun so anything involving underrail vehicles and combat on them sounds hardcore. TBH personally I honestly don't mind if stygs and crew move onto other projects or use the same engine to create similar games in different universe as there's a lot of creativity and love that went into this game and it shows.
EDIT: I Agree with the above post when it comes to alleviating tedium as a lot of the time when I was frustrated with the game was due to weird mechanics such as the vendor purchase limit while more immersive is infuriating and having to lug item drops back and forth is annoying, would be cool if on the home in the next game had a courier service that transport Items automatically between bases and a auto sort feature for stored items in chests. So you can just come strait back to base and get crafting/selling any redundant items.
Double Edit All the way:Finish the dudes quest and it unlocks a fast travel system that removes alot of tedium, so this feature in underrail 2 is a must
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YES PLEASE ON MOD SUPPORT :P
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A number of good points have been raised, some twice.
Yes, there definitely needs to be warnings for touching gear. Right now, there's too much setting-the-whole-town against you for accidentally touching a table.
There are characters like the guard at the SGS caves gate, where you try to click them but accidentally hit the door/fence they are behind, which triggers hostility. I know a warning dialog may have been added since the initial release, but benign conversations are positioned right next to 'untouchable' tables and gear even in SGS, Camp Hathor, etc...
In a pixel-based game, this is very frustrating, and has led me to have to restore saved games more than once. There needs to be more escalation, and a less binary approach towards touching stuff that is right beside a store NPC.
In real life, your character wouldn't be stupid enough to accidentally touch a 'forbidden' table or gate when trying to address a salesman or guard, I would think.
The firearms system could have suppressors applied to all calibres, although it would reduce damage and range, and probably increase wear significantly.
It would be interesting to see caltrops and bear traps made from other metals, although not really necessary.
Good points, Olnarrosh . I often found myself in the middle of one of those giant, time-consuming quests (like the Foundry quests), and forgetting what I was supposed to be doing. Who wanted the murder investigation done? Where was I supposed to look / deliver evidence?
And it would be better to be able to generate your own face somehow. Even a 3D program resulting in a 2D image would be fine. Or a "Mr. Potato Head" type system.
Lots of people have gripes about the commerce system. I find that Underrail takes a 'half-measures' approach, in that there is a more realistic system [vendors only want certain things and sell certain things at any given time], but there are none of the in-universe systems that would naturally spring up in response.
Why isn't there a system where you can consult your PDA and find out what is being sold in Core City, while you are in Camp Hathor? Is there no rudimentary intranet/BBS system in Underrail? No special service offered by people like Blaine or Oculus monitoring what's in stores?
Why can't you contact stores and reserve items? Why isn't there a courier service, as others have mentioned?
And inventory sorting-by-weight/value/etc... would greatly help with management.
Speaking of your PDA / UI, it would be nice to have a database of creatures, as mentioned. Other games have it too, it could have entries added either when you first encounter a creature, or hear about it from someone, with more datapoints being added from subsequent conversations and encounters. But if that's too much work, a straight-up database with information about strengths/weaknesses from basically the Wiki would be okay.
Regarding resolution, I have a 1920x1200 monitor, but I play the game on 1680x1050. It works okay, although it might be even better on a slightly-lower resolution (I'd have to hack my card to enable it).
I think pixel-doubling / tripling / quadrupling might be handy, given the growing prevalence of HIDPI resolutions, especially for laptops.
Zoom might work with the existing setup, I don't know.
If the game engine were 3D, from an isometric perspective, then it would be easy to deal with the resolution issue, character models, and having clothing show up on players. But that would require a brand new engine.
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I wonder if the game could be something else besides isometric, can you imagine this game as a low poly FPS like doom or quake? cuz i would play that every day forever
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low poly FPS like doom or quake
pls no
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can you imagine this game as a low poly FPS like doom or quake?
(https://i.ibb.co/31tsZJ2/retch.gif)
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A little cruelty would be nice, you know, exploding heads, severed limbs, molten bodies (:
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Actually that is one thing that made Fallout 1 & 2 so good; they had good death animations. It doesn't take too much effort but it adds a lot to the game, if on a critical hit something spectacular happens to the enemy. It gives the game a bit more of a post-apocalyptic feel. Maybe they could even add some voice acting? It would have to be good though...Fallout 2 good.
A bunch of other suggestions:
Maintenance of weapons and gear serves more as an irritation than it does a joy. To the extent that people might argue its realistic, you could point out that there are many 'realistic' things that are not part of the game, like needing to sleep on a regular basis, go to the washroom, or eat food and drink water. No one enjoys this level of hyper-maintenance, which is why it is removed in most games. I don't really see any point to including it in this one. Repairing weapons isn't something that is difficult or hard to do, it just requires carrying around a few repair kits and buying/crafting them from time to time.
The same should go for lockpicks and hacking tools. It makes sense that they would require energy, and its not too much of a hassle to recharge so I don't really mind it as much. But I'm not sure what the benefit is gameplay wise.
On the economy: I don't think there is much point in making it overly difficult to sell items. For one thing, it doesn't really resolve the issue of players getting rich and hoarding hundreds of guns to sell at a later point. I found in my playthrough I would still end up with 20,000+ coins and a barrel filled with guns and high-quality armors ready to be sold on a periodic basis (on hard mode). The only place to sink that many coins in is A) Useless home decorations and B) Jet skis.
I actually think that, perhaps it would be better to simply allow players to buy and sell more goods in general to existing merchants (especially general traders), but to have each merchant sell a unique item that costs a small fortune. The remaining items that are sold shouldn't break the game if the player buys them; i.e. you can buy decent armor and weapons, but at a certain point the quality is limited so there is no point purchasing it. The exception could be for elite traders - but you can scale the cost of their items so that only those with the mercantile skill can really buy at their shops regularly. This makes the mercantile skill more useful, and its less irritating for players who may have a ton of great armors and weapons, but the weapons and armor merchant is only interested in buying one gun, a helmet and a pair of boots (which is weirdly specific and somewhat arbitrary).
On that note I think it might be helpful to let players know that a higher mercantile skill will actually expand trader inventory (it was in the dev logs, but its not stated when creating a new character in the skills menu); otherwise many might assume it only gets you a better price. If you don't realize this and build a character who excels at crafting but not mercantile, you will basically be screwed as you can't buy high quality components without a good mercantile skill. This actually happened to me lol. Thankfully I could use a trainer to move points around without feeling like I broke the game.
Compared to others I do not want a party-based mechanic. I think there is something a little more personal and in depth about being a single operative who can defeat significant enemies or crowds by him/herself, and who takes sole responsibility for certain actions. Squad-based combat can be fun if done properly (Fallout Tactics) but it also makes the game less personal.
Other than that, I like the atmospheric music, the locations, the artwork, and especially the story so far. I would love to see how it continues. Hopefully a brief sojourn to the surface is possible, as I am very curious what actually destroyed the surface and why it is uninhabitable. The characters are also fascinating. The many locations to explore makes it feel like a true open-world RPG.
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Actually that is one thing that made Fallout 1 & 2 so good; they had good death animations. It doesn't take too much effort but it adds a lot to the game, if on a critical hit something spectacular happens to the enemy. It gives the game a bit more of a post-apocalyptic feel. Maybe they could even add some voice acting? It would have to be good though...Fallout 2 good.
Yea, many underestimate this aspect. Death animations and beautiful music/background sounds makes me absolutely addicted to that game. Beautiful music in Underrail already exist :)
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Now that you mention it, more meaningful interactions with npcs sounds nice, since out of the hundreds of npcs in the game i care about maybe 4 of them, why does everyone in this game is an unlikable asshole?
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Now that you mention it, more meaningful interactions with npcs sounds nice, since out of the hundreds of npcs in the game i care about maybe 4 of them, why does everyone in this game is an unlikable asshole?
You're just remembering the bad ones. I can think of more nice/polite/friendly ones than not.
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3. Shields
Styg has repeatedly said he wants to alter shield mechanics. Right now, there's not much of a tradeoff. Shields protect you, so it's better to have them on. But I get that he's maybe thinking of a more Dune dynamic [he's halfway there already, with slow weapons penetrating more easily], where maybe it amplifies certain types of weapons against you while blocking others. Or maybe affects your perception/aim, or your own weapons' effectiveness.
It will be tricky to retrofit such changes into Underrail 1, so maybe most of it should be saved for the sequel. A clean slate makes it much easier to rework shield mechanics.
Where was this said? I was recently thinking that shields, when active, should impose a precision penalty that increases with shield capacity. I'm not sure it's possible to make Underrail challenging without significantly reworking shields. And frankly, that was true before specializations and the new level cap. So I really hope this gets done.
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I can't believe i just remembered this, more ways to solve quests, let's put those non combat skills to use when it comes to quest solving
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Lots of great suggestions here, but personally the only thing that I'd love to have is the ability to customize your playermodel, not just your portrait. I know it would take a hell of a lot of time due to the way how animations work in the game, but it would still be a nice feature to have.
I can't believe i just remembered this, more ways to solve quests, let's put those non combat skills to use when it comes to quest solving
+1 to that!
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This is something I'm quite puzzled by and I searched the forums and didn't come up with anything so here goes:
Muzzleflashes? Where are they? For a game with such an enormous amount of gunplay I would think they would be included in some capacity. I know Styg has said it was never his intention to go for realism in UR and I respect that, but it breaks my immersion when engaged in a large scale firefight to never see any muzzleflashes whatsoever. I'm not expecting things to look like a John Wick movie, but witnessing (tens of) thousands of total rounds fired over my playthrough(s) without a single flash occurring is just sorta weird. I'd love to see them included in the sequel. Aesthetics matter a lot in role playing games, at least to me. Thoughts?
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This is something I'm quite puzzled by and I searched the forums and didn't come up with anything so here goes:
Muzzleflashes? Where are they? For a game with such an enormous amount of gunplay I would think they would be included in some capacity. I know Styg has said it was never his intention to go for realism in UR and I respect that, but it breaks my immersion when engaged in a large scale firefight to never see any muzzleflashes whatsoever. I'm not expecting things to look like a John Wick movie, but witnessing (tens of) thousands of total rounds fired over my playthrough(s) without a single flash occurring is just sorta weird. I'd love to see them included in the sequel. Aesthetics matter a lot in role playing games, at least to me. Thoughts?
You might get this sooner than you think.
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Yea, muzzle flashes would be good, and besides what looks cool, it can affect many aspects of the gameplay as a light source.
Pistols or knives / machetes in each hand. With additional feats for these styles, with the feat to wield SMG with one hand and shield / SMG in the second. May be the main feature of the future addon, if it is planned.
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Thanks for the great suggestions.
I agree with the comments about death animations. Given Underrail's inspiration in the Fallout series, the need to indicate "critical hits," and the theme of body horror, it seems amiss that there are no death animations.
I think for the purpose of indicating critical hits, you really want to reward the player if their build is succeeding, by giving them a visceral result. Especially with all that toxic waste lying around, I wonder why some people aren't melting / mutating like in Robocop ;D
But I understand that these animations would occupy development time. They'd have to create multiple animations for each character type, and there are a number of unique characters, I think. The poor animators would be kept busy.
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This is something I'm quite puzzled by and I searched the forums and didn't come up with anything so here goes:
Muzzleflashes? Where are they? For a game with such an enormous amount of gunplay I would think they would be included in some capacity. I know Styg has said it was never his intention to go for realism in UR and I respect that, but it breaks my immersion when engaged in a large scale firefight to never see any muzzleflashes whatsoever. I'm not expecting things to look like a John Wick movie, but witnessing (tens of) thousands of total rounds fired over my playthrough(s) without a single flash occurring is just sorta weird. I'd love to see them included in the sequel. Aesthetics matter a lot in role playing games, at least to me. Thoughts?
You might get this sooner than you think.
This... this pleases me greatly, Godman.
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Lots of great suggestions here, but personally the only thing that I'd love to have is the ability to customize your playermodel, not just your portrait. I know it would take a hell of a lot of time due to the way how animations work in the game, but it would still be a nice feature to have.
I would love more char customization, but in a sprite based game that would involve reworking every single animation sprite for every possible char armor model, but maybe if the next game is in 3d that would be feasible, btw if we get enough sequels at some point we will have an underrail fps this is almost certain
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Lots of great suggestions here, but personally the only thing that I'd love to have is the ability to customize your playermodel, not just your portrait. I know it would take a hell of a lot of time due to the way how animations work in the game, but it would still be a nice feature to have.
I would love more char customization, but in a sprite based game that would involve reworking every single animation sprite for every possible char armor model, but maybe if the next game is in 3d that would be feasible, btw if we get enough sequels at some point we will have an underrail fps this is almost certain
isnt there some freaky lore reasoning to explain the single character model being an average-looking pale guy? something about the one who infiltrated the Faceless being entirely unremarkable
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A lot of great suggestions in this thread. I agree that there needs to be more ways to solve a lot of the mid- and late-game quests, especially those in the Expansion. I would say the base-game was pretty good about having at least 2 ways to solve most of the quests in the game, but with the Expansion there's usually only one way to solve every single one of the quests, and that kinda sucks. The quest with the Sormibaeren in particular is very... well... lame. It's really lame that the only solution is to massacre them, especially when your interaction with Yngwar demonstrates that at least some of them are intelligent. It just seems like there is a lot of lost potential there. I know it's a small team, and I know we already got a lot more than we really had any right to at all, given the price-point, but what if it was just a simple Persuasion/Intimidate check? Or another quest you could do for them? It wouldn't have to be this whole new saga to the game, but having a little bit more in the way of some decision-making would add a lot to an already incredible expansion. This is by far the biggest change I would make.
Otherwise, the only other suggestion I have would be to improve Jack Quicksilver's quest-line so that you don't have to look everything up on the wiki and perform "optimally" in order to get into Oculus. Especially given that having access to Oculus gives you a massive advantage regarding certain shadowy aspects of the expansion. (Also, more Oculus quests please. Thank you!)
Oh, and of course, for the journey to North Underrail, there needs to be a dialogue option to punch and/or shoot Tanner in the face. Just punch him straight in the face. Even with 3 DEX and no melee you should be able to just smash your fist and/or gun into his face for maximal heroic catharsis. ("This one's for Lora!" *whack*)
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I think you would break your fist, because he is like Six, and he got a metal face.
-Azura
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Filter by weight and worth-tired of hovering-a lot of the game is staring at inventory anyway
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Great thread, everyone. Maybe it's run its course, maybe not.
It looks as if Underrail 2 / North Underrail is a strong contender for the next DLC, or it's in the works at some point.
Styg probably has the main campaign and story largely mapped out. So I just have some suggestions about the theme or gameplay.
North Underrail probably isn't all Rathounds and Crawlers like so much of South Underrail and it's caverns. It's said to be more built-up, upscale, advanced, etc...
So a number of people thinking about this have come to the same conclusion: maybe a lot of the quests would focus on intrigue. There's different, powerful factions there. If your character is potentially coming from Level 25+ (potentially), it's unrealistic to combat a bunch of trash mobs. And there may be fewer low-level baddies there anyway.
But the Protectorate, the corporations of Hexagon, Dis, the Free Drones are likely there. And they all have clashing, competing interests. The game, as stated earlier, could focus more on investigation. Finding out who is worth supporting, and putting your weight there. Fewer, but more critical combats, with more sophisticated enemies, punctuating what we learn in the storyline. More hidden boxes, secret passages, sewer entrances, hacking computer logs, intelligent robots, careful conversations with people and AIs. Silent assassinations. Disabling critical systems so that your allies can attack (which you can participate in).
Of course, there'd still be lots of room for gang fights, like we had with Gorsky's Zone Rats. I'm thinking a more cyberpunk / Zaibatsu situations. And with the corporate espionage, more sneaking / shooting through horrible back-areas to get there. And there's still be slums or run-down areas, muggers, and so on. Restoring old industry, having to clear out the areas of newer, higher-order monsters. Finding incriminating logs from Biocorp, etc...
And that gets me to a major thematic element. In Underrail, you are a puppet, first of Tanner, and then basically Six, or at least your situation in the DC. It wouldn't surprise me if you became somebody's puppet again in North Underrail, either a faction,* Six, or both. Sure, you get to do something satisfying, like punching Tanner in the face, but there are bigger fish to fry there.
But what if you could get loose from your master? But that's not an official part of the main quest, or quest sections involving these puppet masters. Instead, if you read the clues, read the hidden logs no-one knows about, you can find ways to escape your bondage. And become a free agent, or whatever? What I am saying is, an observant player could break away from certain 'mandatory' quests to pursue their own (or SGS) interests. Just as an 'answer' to a thematic element of Underrail.
Anyway, those are my ideas. I think there's space for greater intrigue and faction-choosing in North Underrail, where interpersonal skills could become a lot more important. And the vents... maybe someone should tell your character, "Here in North Underrail, vents aren't neglected as much." They're part of critical high-quality air purification, and people are watching them / in them. There would be quests to sabotage / repair them. Maybe a large part of the game would be like the Core City quests, but deeper.
* Speaking of factions, there are always consequences. Joining Oculus is very rewarding, and there are no downsides. But what if they start putting the screws to you in North Underrail, demanding you go on quests for them? Sure, they'll reward you, and you're their "friend," but if you refuse they will try to off you. Like that sword guy at the end of Expedition.
The same applies to the Protectorate and the Free Drones. Right now, there's not much advantages to my characters being neutral (even though that is often what they choose), but what if that allows you to go to more places in North Underrail, that would be barred to 'partisan' characters?
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One other thing. I don't think we'd want to lose the casual encounters you get from walking all over Underrail. So, maybe there are Lower Underrail / Upper Underrail roads, walkways, and underpassages along the rail line. Or below it. And they're not policed. We wouldn't want to lose that anarchy.
It wouldn't surprise me to see a whole, blocked-off abandoned section of rail that's full of monsters.
I guess Styg will manufacture some kind of crisis that hits North Underrail, like the Faceless hit South Underrail, in order to create the general situation of anarchy where bandits and critters roam free. The dainty, pampered technicians and businesspeople of North Underrail are going to need your help to remove unsightly scorpions from their apartment lobby!
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And how about removing the recipes from the feat list and instead adding them to the game in the form of quest adquired feats? if it makes the game too easy then make them hard and or expensive to get