Underrail Forum
Underrail => General => Topic started by: Eldakar on March 28, 2016, 09:02:48 pm
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I wonder.. would pure caster in metal armor work?
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It can work if you want to go through the trouble. I did do a heavy armor penalty pure caster playthrough once and was okay, not too fun. I feel like Anti-Rifle Tactical Vest are easier to tank with than metal armor in general situations.Especially with decent a Blast Cloth which can cover that specific weakness. Mobility would suck compared to a metal sloping crafted metal armor.
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Laminated Fabric (10% penality) + Anti-rifle Vest (50% penality) + Kevlar cloth (10% penality), thats 70%. Around the time you gather all components you can make a tactical vest your DT will end up around 15 (with ballistics feat it will be 18, with balcava and boots thats another 4 so 22). 22 x 600% for total DT of 132 . Quite good but penality will be 70%. And that DT bonus works only vs bullets, meele monsters will still hack you into pieces.
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As a caster I prefer being able to ambush enemies.
Thus, my stealth needs to be good enough that enemies do not instantly detect me.
This is difficult with Anti-rifle vests. Even with Nimble and just insulated or sturdy vest, that is 45% penalty, which is can often be huge enough to not be able to pull ambushes, even with Black Cloth to add stealth.
They do still have their uses. If is is prolonged battle I would rather be unable to set up ambush and be better protected. Ambushes are only good against small groups of enemies anyway...
Interesting enough, high quality (not reinforced) Super Steel Armor made with Armor Sloping and with Nimble feat is pretty decent for ambushes (14% armor penalty, with Nimble). It is not best against bullets, but is all around decent against all types of mechanical damage (snipers, crossbows, melee...), so you will not have general weakness against specific type of enemies.
Thus my caster has 3 armors. The Super Steel Armor for ambushes, infused leather mutated dog armor for full stealth and acid resistance and anti-rifle vest for heavy bullet fighting.
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You want to ambush them for Tranquility bonus? It will be gone in next round when they hit you.
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Not really.
But being able to not get hit due to stunning or debilitating enemies is golden.
Against small groups of 2-3 enemies you can be pretty much invincible, if you make sure you strike first.
Precognition is a must too.
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So without stealth, enemies will always go first since my agility will be at 3? Also, is psychosis worth it?
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I played stealth with AGI3 and that should be good enough for ambushes, if you max it out.
You do not really need super high stealth, just high enough that being in enemy vision does not automatically detect you. And proper equipment always helps, like ninja tabi boots.
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5/3/3/10/3/10/6
Conditioning
Stoicism
Opportunist
Thick skull
Premeditation
Psychostatic Electricity
Thermodynamicity
Neural Overclocking
Locus of Control
Pyromaniac
Juggernaut
Survival instincts
Would that work?
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Damage resistance route can work but it's not as effective as it used to be in the alpha version, mainly because metal armors got heavily nerfed and also the range for many PSI abilities was reduced, so in order to get into casting range you'll often be near enough for enemies to enter combat which will mean not getting the initiative.
You can still play a pure, stealthy, not so squishy caster with something like this:
(http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/148a/1li5575686cuw0lzg.jpg)
There are two major mutually exclusive psionic paths:
Psychosis which is based on critical hits, big health pool and damage resistance. 10 CON along Conditioning, Stoicism, Lifting Belt and Aegis/Morphine Shot makes here sense.
Tranquility which relies on damage avoidance and enemy kiting. You don't need lots of hitpoints as long as you are able to initiate combat on your terms so a bit of stealth is mandatory.
I prefer Tranquility as it's more easy and fun to play. With high evasion through 10 agility and Evasive Maneuvers plus Uncanny Dodge you're very likely to avoid all damage even if you don't manage to kill everybody in the first round, which is actually doable in many encounters:
Tranquility + Thermodynamicity + 15 Blitz AP (Interloper + Sprint) + 20 Adrenaline Shot AP lets you deal a huge amount of damage or CC in the opening round. Being this AP efficient naturally demands lots of psi points so keeping the PSI cost down as low as possible should be a priority: Muffled psionic headband, tactical vest with beetle carapace (along with regenerative vest to keep the Tranqulity bonus), Meditation and Fast Metabolism - they all help not to run dry too fast. In prolonged battles it will still happen so you'll need to restealth or at least block off enemies long enough to recover PSI points. Regardless of preferred psi discipline it's always good to be able to cast Force Field and Electrokinetic Imprint especially in all those tight corridors so even if this build focuses on TC and Metathermics I advise to raise Psychokinesis skill to 45 in order to qualify for the Imprint.
Speaking of skills this is how they can be distributed: click (http://underrail.info.tm/?build=AwGloJgVhBmOQEZQDYGJm8YdUU2GKeFAFhFPO1NEWR1nmVsIpkVZZlpggE448WGlIQK8UmigB2ECnwoSmABwhp+ZbWDAgA)
You will max evasion but you'll require only 40 dodge to pick Uncanny Dodge as it's amazing vs melee (which bypasses shields more easily). It's good to raise it a bit more because each 30 points give you 1 extra attack you automatically dodge. 51 points give you 90 effective points and good quality non-skinner tabi boots get you atleast 60 dodge so if you aim for total of 150 effective points, after armor penalty (20%) you should have 120 which equals 4 additional auto-dodge attacks.
This saves alot of skill points so it's possible to pull this build off with only 6 INT but as usual, you have to rely on home basement crafting bonus and Junkyard Surprise (+2 INT). You need very little mechanics and biology in order to craft the regenerative psionic vest. Super steel fiber (for infused leather) needs only 32 mechanics at most.
There is even enough points to max intimidation. Not only is it used in some conversations, it also turns Yell into a fantastic debuff ability. Everybody affected will have their weapon skill reduced by 35% of your intimidation skill which is directly linked to will, so that's a pretty big precission AND damage penalty. As mentioned before, Tranquility stops working as soon as you start your round with as much as a scratch so your evasion vs enemies ranged skill should be as high as possible. 10 Agility equals 45 movement points, tabis give you around 45 as well so after armor penalty it's 72+ 30 from Sprint equals 102. Evasive Maneuvers converts those into 306 points. Together with your normal evasion you'll have 515+ effective skill for that round! The intimidation debuff is worth almost 100 points so a Level 25, 16 perception enemy will have his 272 guns skill reduced to 172-175 which is far lower than half of your evasion, meaning his chance to hit is 10% (cap). This is the extreme overkill example so it's best to use either Evasive Maneuvers bonus or Yell debuff at one time.
One other very usefull effect of Yell is that it reveals stealthed enemies. Awesome vs. those pesky crawlers.
You don't use any weapons but remember that you can benefit from passive weapon bonuses such as unique Butcher's Cleaver (+20 intimidation) and Kohlmeier's Lucky Knife (-2% chance to get hit critically) so switch between those two accordingly.
It's also possible to make a just as effective build based on Psychokinesis instead of Metathermics. You'll simply replace Thermodynamicity and Pyromaniac with Force User and other Feat of your choice. Keep in mind that Psychokinesis abilities have lower range compared to Meathermics so you'll be in more danger to get hit by enemies. On the other hand less distance also means better use of your Yell ability which has a radius of 8.
Another very versatile build can use all 3 disciplines if you dump CON, max WIL to 16, and bump INT to 8 (to compensate for higher skill need), and replace Fast Metabolism in favor of the other missing psi feat. Psi regenration is 3 pts/round higher but as I'm playing permadeath I prefer that extra health from CON as a buffer for vest regeneration. Fast Metabolism synergizes very well with it plus it makes psi boosters more effective.
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I like the build so far, but those mutated dogs in junkyard are real pain for this char. They have solid hp and kills mobility in one turn. I will have to be super clever here.
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Stay stealthy, use line of sight to your advantage and kite away from dogs and muties. You have to plan ahead which path you're taking so you have enough room, Always carry around a few basic bear traps with you, place them strategically before the battle and lure your enemies into them. One thing that can be considered (even with a build not focused on Psychokinesis) is replacing Interloper with Force User and taking it early. Those +2 round of Force Field duration can make a huge difference.
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I've beaten Depot A, now its get better. Yes, mobility is biggest advantage of this char - lowest point is psi consumption.
Im lvl 10 now, on hard, doing that quest when you drown bugs with explosives.
Also i found Dragunov. It is 5 str req and does 50-75 dmg. So its difrent then one in wiki?
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You are right!
It does have STR5 requirement. Put I'm pretty sure this was not the case before.
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So far Thermodynamic Destabilization is my favorite spell. It's is not always possible to pull it off, but when it works it is absolutely deadly. Biggest problem of pure PSI build? When you run out of psi - and it will happen very soon, you have to resort to kiting and spaming Cryokinesis.
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How about paladin?
3/3/3/10/3/16/8
Conditioning
Stoicism
Psychosis
Thermodynamicity
Premeditation
Juggernaut
Survival instincts
Neural Overclocking
Locus of control
Psychostatic Electricity
Pyromaniac
Psionic mania
Power Management
Neurology
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From my knowledge, Critical Power doesn't work for psi, only for weapon/unarmed.
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Psychosis and meditation cannot be taken together. Tranquility is a safer choice. But, you are probably looking for crits and high damage resistance. If yes, you are missing Psychostatic Electricity for crits.
What do you mean by paladin? You will use only psi? then maybe fast metabolism earlier .
I think that you can get something better on some feats: Power management, skinner (not used for crafting tactical vest), thick skull (really needed with locus?).
Regarding the stats split, you can limit Intelligence to at least 7 for keeping crafting feats.
It is an interesting build in any case
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Skinner for ancient infused rathound leathers. Power management is nice. Btw changed meditation thanks to your sugestion. By paladin i mean user of telekinetic fist.
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I still do not get "Paladin" reference? ???
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When i made that post i imagined this char in metal armor throwing telekinetic fists and thunders. This is where i got it from.
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Then, it is not going to work well early game. Elektrokinesis and Telekinetic punch have high psi cost with psychosis and without psi points your character cant do anything as no backup (unless you develop some skills not mentioned). 2 punches and you are done. You may reduce psi cost by 10% with a tactical vest and more with a good psi headband. To survive, you will use a lot of leaving an area to refill your psi points...
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Hello Wildan,
I'm currently on a psi build similar to what you proposed and your guide helps me a lot :-)
Just a question, how do you manage to play permadeath without anything against traps that can OS you ? Do you wear Motion Tracking Goggles all the time out of battle ? I'm not even sure it would be enough to be safe and wonder if I should put a point in Perception for that.
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I have more hours of game and both path (Tranqulity and Psychosis are pretty solid). Wildan build is very defensive and based on crowd control. I think that it is wiser to drop lockpicking, there are not many doors that you will open and yell is up to you, I would prefer to put more points in stealth and maybe max psychokinesis if any room.
do not invest any points in perception as it does not bring any benefit and will unbalance the build.the only stat that can be reduced is will but then you reduce your main source of damage.
For traps, googles (switching your headband) will help. you will learn where they are and you can activate them with pyrochinesis. Evasion will help as well to reduce damage. And more, you can craft your tactical vest with blast cloth and of course be always full health. Big danger is also grenade/flashbang. you need to be careful in the order you kills enemies. Still the 6 in constitution will be not an easy journey in hard (crawlers,...).
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How do you kill hordes of robots with a pure PSI build?
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How do you kill hordes of robots with a pure PSI build?
I usually have very high electronics (to craft high quality shield) for my pure PSI char so I just use EMP grenade MKIII + high grade HE grenades. If that's not possible I guess you can try Electrokinetic imprint + Electrokinesis.
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How do you kill hordes of robots with a pure PSI build?
I usually have very high electronics (to craft high quality shield) for my pure PSI char so I just use EMP grenade MKIII + high grade HE grenades. If that's not possible I guess you can try Electrokinetic imprint + Electrokinesis.
That needs throwing... I wondered how would you face robots with pure psionics (no grenades, no mines, no stealth...)
Is that possible at all?
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How do you kill hordes of robots with a pure PSI build?
I usually have very high electronics (to craft high quality shield) for my pure PSI char so I just use EMP grenade MKIII + high grade HE grenades. If that's not possible I guess you can try Electrokinetic imprint + Electrokinesis.
That needs throwing... I wondered how would you face robots with pure psionics (no grenades, no mines, no stealth...)
Is that possible at all?
When it's 1 vs 1 of course it's possible. However when you are fighting against group of high mech DT robots with no grenades, no mines, no stealth it's just very slow and painful. You can use doorway, CC abilities and Electrokinesis for a slow (waiting for psi booster cooldown and psi regen) victory Or just use nades w/ 0 throwing for a much easier fight. I mean, at the very least consider using EMP grenades MKIII after you depleted your shield as a three turn AOE robot stun is a game changer.
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It's a pain in the neck to deal with robots. Psychokinesis abilities ares just about the only thing that works on them. Use EMP grenades when having to deal with large groups and shielded robots. Even with no points invested in throwing, you're chances hitting something is better than nothing while waiting for cooldowns. Tasers also help out a bunch. It's all very manageable except for a couple of very specific instances I'm sure many can think of if you've finished the game.
Edit: Hey, I got ninja'd. And yeah, same advice.
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Hey Wildan, I played this build about two years ago and I loved it.
I wanted to ask if you have any changes to suggest regarding this build now that Expedition has been released? Thanks for the great build and apologies for necro-ing the thread.
Cheers
Damage resistance route can work but it's not as effective as it used to be in the alpha version, mainly because metal armors got heavily nerfed and also the range for many PSI abilities was reduced, so in order to get into casting range you'll often be near enough for enemies to enter combat which will mean not getting the initiative.
You can still play a pure, stealthy, not so squishy caster with something like this:
(http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/148a/1li5575686cuw0lzg.jpg)
There are two major mutually exclusive psionic paths:
Psychosis which is based on critical hits, big health pool and damage resistance. 10 CON along Conditioning, Stoicism, Lifting Belt and Aegis/Morphine Shot makes here sense.
Tranquility which relies on damage avoidance and enemy kiting. You don't need lots of hitpoints as long as you are able to initiate combat on your terms so a bit of stealth is mandatory.
I prefer Tranquility as it's more easy and fun to play. With high evasion through 10 agility and Evasive Maneuvers plus Uncanny Dodge you're very likely to avoid all damage even if you don't manage to kill everybody in the first round, which is actually doable in many encounters:
Tranquility + Thermodynamicity + 15 Blitz AP (Interloper + Sprint) + 20 Adrenaline Shot AP lets you deal a huge amount of damage or CC in the opening round. Being this AP efficient naturally demands lots of psi points so keeping the PSI cost down as low as possible should be a priority: Muffled psionic headband, tactical vest with beetle carapace (along with regenerative vest to keep the Tranqulity bonus), Meditation and Fast Metabolism - they all help not to run dry too fast. In prolonged battles it will still happen so you'll need to restealth or at least block off enemies long enough to recover PSI points. Regardless of preferred psi discipline it's always good to be able to cast Force Field and Electrokinetic Imprint especially in all those tight corridors so even if this build focuses on TC and Metathermics I advise to raise Psychokinesis skill to 45 in order to qualify for the Imprint.
Speaking of skills this is how they can be distributed: click (http://underrail.info.tm/?build=AwGloJgVhBmOQEZQDYGJm8YdUU2GKeFAFhFPO1NEWR1nmVsIpkVZZlpggE448WGlIQK8UmigB2ECnwoSmABwhp+ZbWDAgA)
You will max evasion but you'll require only 40 dodge to pick Uncanny Dodge as it's amazing vs melee (which bypasses shields more easily). It's good to raise it a bit more because each 30 points give you 1 extra attack you automatically dodge. 51 points give you 90 effective points and good quality non-skinner tabi boots get you atleast 60 dodge so if you aim for total of 150 effective points, after armor penalty (20%) you should have 120 which equals 4 additional auto-dodge attacks.
This saves alot of skill points so it's possible to pull this build off with only 6 INT but as usual, you have to rely on home basement crafting bonus and Junkyard Surprise (+2 INT). You need very little mechanics and biology in order to craft the regenerative psionic vest. Super steel fiber (for infused leather) needs only 32 mechanics at most.
There is even enough points to max intimidation. Not only is it used in some conversations, it also turns Yell into a fantastic debuff ability. Everybody affected will have their weapon skill reduced by 35% of your intimidation skill which is directly linked to will, so that's a pretty big precission AND damage penalty. As mentioned before, Tranquility stops working as soon as you start your round with as much as a scratch so your evasion vs enemies ranged skill should be as high as possible. 10 Agility equals 45 movement points, tabis give you around 45 as well so after armor penalty it's 72+ 30 from Sprint equals 102. Evasive Maneuvers converts those into 306 points. Together with your normal evasion you'll have 515+ effective skill for that round! The intimidation debuff is worth almost 100 points so a Level 25, 16 perception enemy will have his 272 guns skill reduced to 172-175 which is far lower than half of your evasion, meaning his chance to hit is 10% (cap). This is the extreme overkill example so it's best to use either Evasive Maneuvers bonus or Yell debuff at one time.
One other very usefull effect of Yell is that it reveals stealthed enemies. Awesome vs. those pesky crawlers.
You don't use any weapons but remember that you can benefit from passive weapon bonuses such as unique Butcher's Cleaver (+20 intimidation) and Kohlmeier's Lucky Knife (-2% chance to get hit critically) so switch between those two accordingly.
It's also possible to make a just as effective build based on Psychokinesis instead of Metathermics. You'll simply replace Thermodynamicity and Pyromaniac with Force User and other Feat of your choice. Keep in mind that Psychokinesis abilities have lower range compared to Meathermics so you'll be in more danger to get hit by enemies. On the other hand less distance also means better use of your Yell ability which has a radius of 8.
Another very versatile build can use all 3 disciplines if you dump CON, max WIL to 16, and bump INT to 8 (to compensate for higher skill need), and replace Fast Metabolism in favor of the other missing psi feat. Psi regenration is 3 pts/round higher but as I'm playing permadeath I prefer that extra health from CON as a buffer for vest regeneration. Fast Metabolism synergizes very well with it plus it makes psi boosters more effective.