Underrail Forum
Underrail => General => Topic started by: Fenix on September 28, 2017, 04:45:54 am
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Explain how does it work?
"Perform a sledgehammer attack that does normal damage plus additional (20% of your maximum health) mechanical damage." - what does it mean? It can't crit?
Is it just a flat plus to damage like Expertise?
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Don't need feat I don't understand what it do. I'll pick Nimble instead.
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it deals normal damage and bonus damage based on your max hp >.>
so if you have 100 maxhp and deal 50 dmg on normal attack, you would deal 70 with the feat (50 + 20 from max hp)
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So it can't crit and just add flat damage?
On my Con 3 char it will add 40 dmg in late game.
It is useful, but it's last priority feat.
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it does not say anything about not critting so i would guess it can crit normally.
normal damage just means it happens like normal attack, and normal attacks can crit.
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Why do you assume it cannot crit? Any special ability that cannot crit has that explicitly stated in its description, like Snipe or Implosion for example.
Really can't see what the source of confusion here is, the description is not vague or ambiguous at all.
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Why do you assume it cannot crit? Any special ability that cannot crit has that explicitly stated in its description, like Snipe or Implosion for example.
Really can't see what the source of confusion here is, the description is not vague or ambiguous at all.
Well, i think he asked not wherever this attack can crit or not, but if this damage will be multiplied in that case. And i'm not sure if this is the case.
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In this case it is better then usual attack after all - with crit 40 dmg turns in ~100, but anyway I'll take it last.
Or not?
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In this case it is better then usual attack after all - with crit 40 dmg turns in ~100, but anyway I'll take it last.
Or not?
For high CON builds it ends up being a lot of damage. I know that conventional wisdom is that you need to stack STR for a sledge build, but I did a Hard run pumping CON above STR and Super Slam ended up adding ~120 mechanical damage. Then of course you roll with a crit modifier over 200% so it ends up really adding near 300 (before mitigation) on Hard. That makes a big difference. Pummel -> Expose Weakness -> Super Slam. He ded.
Super Slam is pretty great.
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Why Pummel at all?
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Super Slam is really not great. It's OK on easy and normal and almost useless on hard. Let's see, each point in CON at lvl 25 gives you: 24 health (30 with juggernaut) on Hard, 51 (64) on Normal and 102 (128) on Easy. That means that at lvlv 25 each point in CON gives you: 6 dmg on Hard, 13 dmg on Normal, 26 dmg on Easy. Damage that you can apply only once or twice per combat. Each point in STR however gives you 7-8% damage increase from boosting your skill and 10% damage boost from having STR above 8. I'm not sure if they are additive or multiplicative, but that damage applies to every attack and also STR increases your accuracy with a weapon, so it's clearly much, much better deal.
So i don't think that Super Slam worth it in 90% of the cases even if it multiplies on the crit. For sledgehammer users it's much more viable to put their point in STR rather than CON (that's being said, having 7 CON is recommended). A nice bonus is that if you have 15-16 STR then you can put adrenaline and rathound barbeque on top of that and use Balor hammer for about 3 rounds in combat, which often is enough to eliminate your enemies, given that with that weapon it's usually 1 hit = 1 kill.
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Why Pummel at all?
Pummel so that you have less chances to miss, i guess, since it reduces evasion and dodge to 0. Still, taking 3 attacks to kill someone, unless this someone is bladeling, industrial bot or something like that is not a great example of a good sledg build in my opinion.
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Although there are many other options for nullifying enemy dodge when necessary, I think Pummel is still handy to have because of its low AP cost.
Super Slam has funny synergy for easy difficulty and I think it's fairly well balanced for normal. It's weaker on hard, but always better than just auto-attacking if your feat budget isn't too tight. This may change at some point in the future so it works the same regardless of difficulty.
Yes, 10 AP sledgehammer attack is actually what i found most useful form this feat, even if for 50% damage only.
Well, yeah, it is better than just an attack (with all other being equal), but the benefit is not particularly noticeable unless you are playing on easy, so there is always better choice for that feat slot. Especially it's not worth making CON > STR sledg build, both in general and with that feat.
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Each point in STR however gives you 7-8% damage increase from boosting your skill and 10% damage boost from having STR above 8. I'm not sure if they are additive or multiplicative, but that damage applies to every attack and also STR increases your accuracy with a weapon, so it's clearly much, much better deal.
Yeah, I don't like armored beast types, so I did stealth Con 3 hammerer and figured out that he at least should oneshot everything, so 20 Str and Balor's hammer is the goal (initial).
It is ~ like this http://underrail.info.tm/build/?AwGlEYXA2KBYSwQZhAdhKjocgJygHqhollgUAco1FATDbkxbrOJZh3KHHiAKwI0-fMiA
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Each point in STR however gives you 7-8% damage increase from boosting your skill and 10% damage boost from having STR above 8. I'm not sure if they are additive or multiplicative, but that damage applies to every attack and also STR increases your accuracy with a weapon, so it's clearly much, much better deal.
Yeah, I don't like armored beast types, so I did stealth Con 3 hammerer and figured out that he at least should oneshot everything, so 20 Str and Balor's hammer is the goal (initial).
It is ~ like this http://underrail.info.tm/build/?AwGlEYXA2KBYSwQZhAdhKjocgJygHqhollgUAco1FATDbkxbrOJZh3KHHiAKwI0-fMiA
Actually armored sledg is the best one in my experience. With Sprint and good tabis you get enough movement to get around enemies and with super steel armor you can get enough resistance that mechanical damage doesn't bother you. So i would still recommend 6-7 CON sledg build. 3 CON for a build with a relatively low maneuverability is too savescummy for me.
And you won't hit 20 STR without supersoldier drug which you can get only at the end of the game (and not with your biology skill, i tell you that). With maxed STR what you can expect is to take rat barbecue and inject yourself with adrenaline in combat, then you'll have 17-19 str, meaning only 5-15% accuracy penalty on the hammer.
About your build, i think it's good enough to finish the game but you WILL hit a lot of roadblocks where you can get mostly by luck after a lot of reloading. 7 PER is almost useless, there just not enough secret places for you to discover with effective 10 PER for it to be even remotely worth it 4 attribute points and 1 feat investment. I would recommend you to take Pummel and Taste for Blood on your next level ups. Pummel is really good, since under adrenaline you can swing you Balor 3 times for 20 AP each and then still hit someone with Pummel for 10 AP (or taser someone, or take some drug). Taste for blood also works decently with sedgehammer build since it also gives you one stack for killing someone and with decent sledge build you can expect to kill 1-2 enemies per turn, each one increasing your further damage by 5%, and since sledg deals damage in large spikes, it's a noticeable increase.
That's the build that i finished the game with http://underrail.info.tm/build/?AwGloJgVhBGGBsIkHYQGYPLD0t0zggCcewsIAHGkfnhGXLBE0bcIVUUrACxyUQvULxi9iIKGgSgEElDEqhK-SlCA (http://underrail.info.tm/build/?AwGloJgVhBGGBsIkHYQGYPLD0t0zggCcewsIAHGkfnhGXLBE0bcIVUUrACxyUQvULxi9iIKGgSgEElDEqhK-SlCA)
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You can reach 20 STR by having 16 STR, wear Rathound Regalia +1, use adrenaline +2 and rathound BBQ +1.
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You can reach 20 STR by having 16 STR, wear Rathound Regalia +1, use adrenaline +2 and rathound BBQ +1.
Or trying to savescum +2 Str out of junkyard suprise every 20 minutes, yes. I was talking about more viable solutions. Rathound Regalia is one of the worst armor in the game, with 3 CON, 4 AGI and this armor he is basically a paper plane trying to fly through incinerator.
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Actually armored sledg is the best one in my experience. With Sprint and good tabis you get enough movement to get around enemies and with super steel armor you can get enough resistance that mechanical damage doesn't bother you. So i would still recommend 6-7 CON sledg build.
I just don't like the concept, or maybe better to paraphrase - I have no fun with it at all. I don't say it is bad or something - it's just no fun for me.
3 CON for a build with a relatively low maneuverability is too savescummy for me.
I have great maneuverability in my siphoner leather armor and tabi boots. And when I'll craft infused one it will get even better.
And I don't like to savescum at all, also I try to use no grenades, or as little as possible.
And you won't hit 20 STR without supersoldier drug which you can get only at the end of the game (and not with your biology skill, i tell you that). With maxed STR what you can expect is to take rat barbecue and inject yourself with adrenaline in combat, then you'll have 17-19 str, meaning only 5-15% accuracy penalty on the hammer.
I can get 100 base in Biology, it is I just don't need it now, or have better options to spent points.
Also, 20 is definitely doable, I don't think Styg would put BH if you can't use it.
Also, if no - I always have usual hammers, not a big loss.
About your build, i think it's good enough to finish the game but you WILL hit a lot of roadblocks where you can get mostly by luck after a lot of reloading.
We will see.
7 PER is almost useless, there just not enough secret places for you to discover with effective 10 PER for it to be even remotely worth it 4 attribute points and 1 feat investment.
Look, the idea for this buld was to rely on stealth and dodge/evasion anyway, so I don't need Con.
Besides, I absolutely don't like to skip sooper sekret parts of the game even if I know all of them, which I don't for Underrail (lol yeah). Builds with Per enough to discover all hidden things is a staple for me, that's why crossbow, or pistol or Psi who have spare points for Per.
I would recommend you to take Pummel and Taste for Blood on your next level ups. Pummel is really good, since under adrenaline you can swing you Balor 3 times for 20 AP each and then still hit someone with Pummel for 10 AP (or taser someone, or take some drug).
I already decided to give Pummel a try, but its usefulness is limited - I'm already using Taser, also drugs cot 10 AP which is a huge penalty compared to doctor's pouch users, so it could be useful if you really need to finish someone, which is rare thing at least on 16 lvl.
Taste for blood also works decently with sedgehammer build since it also gives you one stack for killing someone and with decent sledge build you can expect to kill 1-2 enemies per turn, each one increasing your further damage by 5%, and since sledg deals damage in large spikes, it's a noticeable increase.
I think I'll take defensive or utility feats instead, I think I won't need more damage then I can get with 20 Str and BH or even 18 Str and usual hammer.
So my pick is Nimble, Deflection, and some of these - Super Slam, Pummel, Clothier, Power Management, can only take 3 from 4.
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http://underrail.info.tm/build/?AwGlGYQJgVhBGAbCZAWEkDsGTdPhcOeWQ4o3OTOA+YUO2+hZgtsD5EhADg2XB9UoVAE4QMdNRCjwQA
That's final build where I can't decide (yet) which 3 feat to pick from 4.
Possible 1 offensive and 2 utility - you can't have enough stealth with 4 Agi I think.
Also I want to put it to test against Faceless, I killing all of them.
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It's your game but objectively the 7 PER is a bad choice here. At 4 AGI, your dodge and evasion will fail often even if you max dodge and evasion, plus MP could be another problem as well.
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I have great maneuverability in my siphoner leather armor and tabi boots.
At best it's "ok" maneuverability. Great maneuverability is when you have something like Hit and Run or Fancy Footwork, because that means that after getting close to the enemy and killing it, you can get behind the cover or run far away after. With only 4 AGI and tabi you have enough to get to the enemy, which means it's not that different from guy in heavy armor with Sprint. Good that you have dodge + evasion, but your agi is just too low for it to be the only defense you can rely on with 3 CON (and you didn't max evasion, that's bad, for melee it's more important than dodge, since most guys who try to get close to you will get killed quickly).
Also, 20 is definitely doable, I don't think Styg would put BH if you can't use it.
Also, if no - I always have usual hammers, not a big loss.
I never said you couldn't use it. I said you don't need to aim for 20. You can still use it without 20 STR, you just get accuracy penalty, 5% for each point you are lacking.
Look, the idea for this buld was to rely on stealth and dodge/evasion anyway, so I don't need Con.
The you should've probably put those points in AGI, since PER doesn't do anything for stealth and dodge/evasion. I too like to discover thing with PER, but it is not really useful even when using Oddity xp.
I already decided to give Pummel a try, but its usefulness is limited - I'm already using Taser, also drugs cot 10 AP which is a huge penalty compared to doctor's pouch users, so it could be useful if you really need to finish someone, which is rare thing at least on 16 lvl.
It's usefulness no more limited than that of taser. You can't use taser every turn, it has a cooldown, so you use taser one turn and pummel next. And if you are using setup that is different from tichrome hammer (like with Balor), then you still has those free 10 AP lying around, might as well put them to good use, like using pummel, taser or drugs.
So my pick is Nimble, Deflection, and some of these - Super Slam, Pummel, Clothier, Power Management, can only take 3 from 4.
Super Slam with 3 Con is really not that useful. Even on Easy it's less than 140 damage at lvl 25. Clothier is not that useful for your build, since you want to focus on stealth and evasion and the only fabric that won't push you armor penalty beyond 15% is black and aluminized cloth (blast having 15% penalty and kevlar is 10%), later is killing your stealth and former will get you less than 10 points in stealth (even with 160 quality cloth) from Clothier.
Deflection means that you'll have to keep one weapon slot open constantly and switching to it. If you aim for balor hammer i would recommend keeping it in one slot and tichrome hammer in other. If you need to use Balor, pump up on adrenaline and go to town, then if there is someone left standing, just switch to tichrome and finish them off, because when adrenaline expires it'll be harder to finish someone with just balor, due to accuracy decrease. And again, dodge is less useful for you then evasion, since there are less enemies who go in melee and they will go down first, most probably, since they will be closest to you.
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It's your game but objectively the 7 PER is a bad choice here. At 4 AGI, your dodge and evasion will fail often even if you max dodge and evasion, plus MP could be another problem as well.
You can't have everything, that's a life.
At best it's "ok" maneuverability.
Compared to armored build it is great, or at least not bad in general.
I attack from stealth so MP used to move between targets.
I never said you couldn't use it. I said you don't need to aim for 20. You can still use it without 20 STR, you just get accuracy penalty, 5% for each point you are lacking.
5% is a lot, it is not a rare case I missed with 95% chance to hit, once even 3 times in a row.
The you should've probably put those points in AGI, since PER doesn't do anything for stealth and dodge/evasion.
Stealth is useless when stealthed enemies detects you faster then you are detecting them, it is a death sentence for such build.
Also I don't like reloading.
I too like to discover thing with PER, but it is not really useful even when using Oddity xp.
It is not about usefulness, it is about fun, no sekkrets - no fun.
You can't use taser every turn, it has a cooldown, so you use taser one turn and pummel next.
That's a good point, I'll take it.
Clothier is not that useful for your build, since you want to focus on stealth and evasion and the only fabric that won't push you armor penalty beyond 15% is black and aluminized cloth (blast having 15% penalty and kevlar is 10%), later is killing your stealth and former will get you less than 10 points in stealth (even with 160 quality cloth) from Clothier.
Even 10 points is good enouh, also you forgot balaclava and ninja tabi, these bonus points gives spare skill points from stealth which I can put into evasion.
Deflection means that you'll have to keep one weapon slot open constantly and switching to it. If you aim for balor hammer i would recommend keeping it in one slot and tichrome hammer in other. If you need to use Balor, pump up on adrenaline and go to town, then if there is someone left standing, just switch to tichrome and finish them off, because when adrenaline expires it'll be harder to finish someone with just balor, due to accuracy decrease. And again, dodge is less useful for you then evasion, since there are less enemies who go in melee and they will go down first, most probably, since they will be closest to you.
Agree, but it can be situationally useful if you plan to finish fight in these 2-3 turns, or you can just go with TiChrome and have that bonus all the time.
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Btw, what difficulty you are playing at?
Compared to armored build it is great, or at least not bad in general.
Didn't i just said that armored build with 6 agi, tabi and Sprint has about same mobility that yours does? And unlike your, he doesn't need to take cover. So, no, it's not great by any stretch of imagination. I played several sledgehammer builds, i know what i'm talking about.
I attack from stealth so MP used to move between targets.
So, that means you don't have movement points in the first round at all, meaning having less mobility than armored build and that you are a sitting duck for a whole round.
5% is a lot, it is not a rare case I missed with 95% chance to hit, once even 3 times in a row.
Numbers say otherwise. Damage from balor hammer usually around 2 times more than tichrome hammer, meaning that even with 5% accuracy hit, you get much higher dpr and kill your opponents much quicker. And if you can't bear that terrible 5% accuracy drp, then just forget about using it at all, unless you want either of those: 1) wait till end game 2) wear crappy armor 3) abuse junkyard surprise every 20 min or so.
Stealth is useless when stealthed enemies detects you faster then you are detecting them, it is a death sentence for such build.
Also I don't like reloading.
Yeah, and by increasing your ability to detect them, you decreased your ability to hide from them (stealth depends on AGI), so you basically gained nothing in that area. And if you don't like reloading, then 3 CON and 4 AGI build without good armor is really not the best choice for you.
Even 10 points is good enouh, also you forgot balaclava and ninja tabi, these bonus points gives spare skill points from stealth which I can put into evasion.
I said less than 10. Even 160 quality black cloth will give you 45 stealth, meaning that you get another 9 with Clothier. And you can't expect to find even one of those. What you can reasonable expect is ~130 quality in the end game unless you make a lot of merchant runs or get really lucky in the final area. Balaclava and tabi scale their bonus a lot slower than armor, so you can reasonably expect around 15 points of stealth form Clothier if you wear all 3 of them, meaning that you won't wear goggles that can let you detect enemies MUCH faster or siphoner tabi that'll give you much better evasion and dodge. I don't think 15 skill points worth a feat slot, especially since those 15 points come with some restrictions.
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Btw, what difficulty you are playing at?
Hard?
And unlike your, he doesn't need to take cover.
And I don't need it too. I just kill them.
So, no, it's not great by any stretch of imagination.
Mobility that is enough for me.
So, that means you don't have movement points in the first round at all, meaning having less mobility than armored build and that you are a sitting duck for a whole round.
That mean I don't need that much mobility, and that first round happen after I bashed one and stun another.
Numbers say otherwise. Damage from balor hammer usually around 2 times more than tichrome hammer, meaning that even with 5% accuracy hit, you get much higher dpr and kill your opponents much quicker.
That just mean that miss will descrease my dps even more than before.
Yeah, and by increasing your ability to detect them, you decreased your ability to hide from them (stealth depends on AGI), so you basically gained nothing in that area.
Wrong. I played many stealthed builds, crossbower has 10 Agi and I noticed that my stealth is not enough anyway, and higher detection is more important.
And if you don't like reloading, then 3 CON and 4 AGI build without good armor is really not the best choice for you.
Not that bad if I'm not reloading much.
Even 10 points is good enouh, also you forgot balaclava and ninja tabi, these bonus points gives spare skill points from stealth which I can put into evasion.
I said less than 10. Even 160 quality black cloth will give you 45 stealth, meaning that you get another 9 with Clothier. And you can't expect to find even one of those. What you can reasonable expect is ~130 quality in the end game unless you make a lot of merchant runs or get really lucky in the final area. Balaclava and tabi scale their bonus a lot slower than armor, so you can reasonably expect around 15 points of stealth form Clothier if you wear all 3 of them, meaning that you won't wear goggles that can let you detect enemies MUCH faster or siphoner tabi that'll give you much better evasion and dodge. I don't think 15 skill points worth a feat slot, especially since those 15 points come with some restrictions.
Even 15 points is good enough for me, especially when I don't have other useful feats.
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Yep, with Deflection I already hae 180 dodge with siphoner tabi boots, not infused.
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Fenix stated he will reply on stealth. When you attack from stealth you have 0 MP, how are you going to next target without Sprint/Hit and Run?
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Well, I have Adrenalin Shot, and often enemies grouped together - at least for now.
And char can survive 1 turn for sure if he won't be incapacitated or stunned.
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Ok, whatever, it's your build. But, just that thing...
That just mean that miss will descrease my dps even more than before.
Do...do you even know how math works?
Wrong. I playe many stealthed builds, crossbower has 10 Agi andI noticed that my atealth is not anough anyway, and higher detection is more important.
Erm, unless your crossbow build had PER less than 7, then this build will be even worse at this. I mean you've got both PER and AGI that is less than that of a crossbow guy with 10 AGI.
to destroyor:
Fenix stated he will reply on stealth. When you attack from stealth you have 0 MP, how are you going to next target without Sprint/Hit and Run?
He is just using his AP for that. Deducing from his reply he has time for 1 taser attack and one regular attack between two enemies.
to epeli:
I may ruin the nice atmosphere here, but I believe destroyor and MirddinEmris overestimate the importance of agility and those feats.
Well, i don't, honestly. It's just his arguments are contradictory to what he is doing and i'm trying to make sense of this. If he said "well, that's how i like it" i would say "well, ok, it's you char". But when he is saying "this makes me better at this" when it objectively doesn't...idk, it just seems weird to me.
I thought it's pretty cool and original to see a sneaky low con hammer build with max perception.
7 PER is not max)
Hit and Run honestly won't get you anywhere
Actually, while it can't be used to retreat, it can be used to move between enemies after killing them, and often it actually can be used to position yourself more favorably at the end of the turn. It is especially useful if you start your combat form stealth.
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Do...do you even know how math works?
Yes. I hit 200 instead of 100 with Balor Hammer, thus when I miss I lose more.
Erm, unless your crossbow build had PER less than 7, then this build will be even worse at this. I mean you've got both PER and AGI that is less than that of a crossbow guy with 10 AGI.
10 Per 10 Agi - and detection is more important than stealth.
He is just using his AP for that. Deducing from his reply he has time for 1 taser attack and one regular attack between two enemies.
50 AP - 3 hammer bashes or 2 bashes and taser and moving, 70 AP - more bashing and taser stun.
It's just his arguments are contradictory to what he is doing and i'm trying to make sense of this.
It's just you don't know game well enough, so sense won't coming.
7 PER is not max)
With Snooping it is maxed for secrets, and with Paranoia it is even better than 10 Per without it for stealth vs stealth.
Actually, while it can't be used to retreat, it can be used to move between enemies after killing them, and often it actually can be used to position yourself more favorably at the end of the turn. It is especially useful if you start your combat form stealth.
It is not a mandatory.
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Yes. I hit 200 instead of 100 with Balor Hammer, thus when I miss I lose more.
I...see. Well, i guess that's where i end it. Not with a bang, but with a snicker.
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It's not only my preference, it is interesting build also.
E.g. I cleaned up two packs of Faceless - near Foundry and in cave in Core City - from first try.
So nothing so non-optimal in this build.
With all buffs I have like 500-600 dodge already, and 400 evasion.
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So, I did Arena, and died only once in a fight with last opponent, and you know him.
Tough son of a bitch.
Also I like "What a Turn" turn of events, that was really cool.
Lvl 19, got 20 after Arena.
Definitely, Pummel could be useful for that fight, if I would get lvl 20 before it.
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Damn, good to know a stealthy-hammerer actually works in this game. Once I had a thought of such build and then looking at the archetype I concluded it wouldn't work (Heavy attacks requiring lots of APs, and being melee needing lots of MPs and needs CON to survive subsequent turns). Turns out with decent stealth you can carefully position yourself and catch mobs off-guard.
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With TiChrome hammer and lifting belt you need 16 AP to strike once.
And this char has like 70 MP, so...
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Good example how completionists (no secerets - I want to see and get everything) willingly shoot in their own foot. Ironically 7 PER is enough for maybe only half of hidden areas and shortcuts.
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Good example how completionists (no secerets - I want to see and get everything) willingly shoot in their own foot. Ironically 7 PER is enough for maybe only half of hidden areas and shortcuts.
But he has Snooping, so PER=10 for secrets.
However, a sledgehammer build with 3 CON is just not doing it for me... I can not stand the reloading screen. And 4 AGI and stealth, so slow!
No for stealth hammer, 10 STR, 10 CON, 8 AGI is the thing. In fact screw intelligence, we are bludgeoning things to death with a blunt metal object, not philosophing over mathematical problems.
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Why reloading screen at all?
I died once during Arena.
I did without reloading both Faceless groups - one near Foundry, one in COre City.
Energy Shield, evasion, dodge, Infused Siphoner Leather Tabi\Leather Armor, Nimble, Deflection, Boxing Gloves, Jumping Bean, Adrenalin Shot.
Can't see why I should see reloading screen often?
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Btw the one who made Gauntlet is a maniac.
That was hard, even frustrating at times.
Also, crits with dagger were about 200+ dmg, for 10 AP, which was much preferable to steel sledgehamer's 25 AP.
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Why reloading screen at all?
I died once during Arena.
I did without reloading both Faceless groups - one near Foundry, one in COre City.
Energy Shield, evasion, dodge, Infused Siphoner Leather Tabi\Leather Armor, Nimble, Deflection, Boxing Gloves, Jumping Bean, Adrenalin Shot.
Can't see why I should see reloading screen often?
You must know the game very well.
I manage to screw up sometimes, and do stupid things. Or get surprised or bumped out of stealth. And sometimes I can not prepare for combat beforehand even with stealth. That is when I need the high HP pool, especially for close combat.
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Well, yeah.
I tried to assault Lurkers base, and even with that evasion, crossbower hit me every second shot, and sniper hit me with Aimed Shot - barely survived, 10+ hp left, died two times.
Also it's not the top stats obviously, but anyway quite high.
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Oh, wow. I think it's possible to conclude that number is kind of overkill, considering that both Dodge and Evasion can only reduce enemy's THC up to 60%. Although, I actually don't know how each single point can make the difference, I'd like to use this opportunity to ask at the very least epeli and maybe even Wildan: What is the most optimal number of Dodge and Evasion that you need, AFTER synergy+stat bonus+equipment bonus+feat abilities bonus? Seriously.... I have to say that Defense skills of Underrail felt underwhelming, especially since it can only reduce THC up to 60%.
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Oh, wow. I think it's possible to conclude that number is kind of overkill, considering that both Dodge and Evasion can only reduce enemy's THC up to 60%.
You misunderstood the mechanics. Not "up to 60%", but "by 60%". From the base of 70%. Meaning, you can reach 10% hit rate on you before other modifiers.
I'd like to use this opportunity to ask at the very least epeli and maybe even Wildan: What is the most optimal number of Dodge and Evasion that you need, AFTER synergy+stat bonus+equipment bonus+feat abilities bonus?
Well, i'm not a Wildan, but that's a pretty easy question to answer. Though it depends on what you mean by "optimal" - most effective point after which there is no benefit of putting any investment into defense or most cost effective investment?
Since 60% reduction happens at the point where your defense skill is twice as big as attack skill used on you, you'll need around that much to get most benefit from defense skills. Specific numbers can vary, especially with new difficulty setting that increased attack skill for enemies by 30%, but i usually take the largest number i can produce as a player (namely 272 effective skill) and double it, then use it as ballpark estimate for skill ceiling i need to reach.
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Why reloading screen at all?
I died once during Arena.
but then
I tried to assault Lurkers base, and even with that evasion, crossbower hit me every second shot, and sniper hit me with Aimed Shot - barely survived, 10+ hp left, died two times.
It seems your memory is even worse than your math ability)
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Oh, wow. I think it's possible to conclude that number is kind of overkill, considering that both Dodge and Evasion can only reduce enemy's THC up to 60%.
You mean, even if I get numbers higher, id won't change anything?
Welp...
You misunderstood the mechanics. Not "up to 60%", but "by 60%". From the base of 70%. Meaning, you can reach 10% hit rate on you before other modifiers.
Thanks for clarification.
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@MirddinEmris OH RIGHT! I misread the wiki page! Thanks for the clarification!
Also, man, don't push Fenix like that. Died once in the Arena, and then died twice on the Lurker's base? Not bad at all.
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@MirddinEmris OH RIGHT! I misread the wiki page! Thanks for the clarification!
Also, man, don't push Fenix like that. Died once in the Arena, and then died twice on the Lurker's base? Not bad at all.
Yeah, why the accusing tone, I like to hear how interesting builds like Fenix's work in practice, especially when they differ from my own.
But the to hit chance deduction from Evasion, is the "up to 60%" in addition to stuff like lighting and distance?
Example, if you get say -20% from distance, -30% from dark light and -50% from targer evasion, is that 0% to hit? Or always a 5% chance, or something else?
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The only things that left I think, is Abram's quests, Protectorate quests and Tchortists.
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Yeah, why the accusing tone, I like to hear how interesting builds like Fenix's work in practice, especially when they differ from my own.
Also, man, don't push Fenix like that. Died once in the Arena, and then died twice on the Lurker's base? Not bad at all.
If that was true, than yes, that would be impressive with build like this. I just don't see him playing on Hard (as he said) and finishing the final area without dying even once. Also, he show complete lack of understanding of how game mechanics and basic math works. Read thread from the start for examples.
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Also, he show complete lack of understanding of how game mechanics and basic math works. Read thread from the start for examples.
I guess it's because he's not a native-English speaker, and if you pay attention to his posts here and in RPG Codex (no offense to Fenix) he's still learning to explain in English properly.
And if you're talking about how he stated that he would miss more because of using Balor's Hammer with 1 or 2 less STR requirement (of which you stated that could be anywhere between 5-15% penalty to THC), I think I personally understand what he meant by that. Underrail's combat is dice/RNG-oriented, and any attacks that's below 90% could miss few times in a row. Because of that, Fenix preferred to deal damage consecutively instead of risking to miss at (probably) a critical point. Besides, he's doing fine (died once to Carnifex, died twice in Lurker's base, that's absolutely impressive).
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Also, he show complete lack of understanding of how game mechanics and basic math works. Read thread from the start for examples.
I guess it's because he's not a native-English speaker, and if you pay attention to his posts here and in RPG Codex (no offense to Fenix) he's still learning to explain in English properly.
And if you're talking about how he stated that he would miss more because of using Balor's Hammer with 1 or 2 less STR requirement (of which you stated that could be anywhere between 5-15% penalty to THC), I think I personally understand what he meant by that. Underrail's combat is dice/RNG-oriented, and any attacks that's below 90% could miss few times in a row. Because of that, Fenix preferred to deal damage consecutively instead of risking to miss at (probably) a critical point. Besides, he's doing fine (died once to Carnifex, died twice in Lurker's base, that's absolutely impressive).
What a coincidence, english is not my first language either)
There is a limit to what you can attribute to a bad proficiency in language. He didn't say that he would miss more in a row, he said that "dps would be lower" because "when you have more damage you loose more dps when you miss". That's on the level of saying that you have 50% chance of meeting a dinosaur on a street because you either meet him or you don't.
Well, the moral is that perhaps you shouldn't take too seriously what he says about what works in the game and what isn't.
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In that case I was trolling a bit to be honest.
Neverless, my build is as viable as any other, and in my eyes more fun to play than any armored.