Underrail Forum
Underrail => General => Topic started by: Dieusama on October 01, 2017, 09:14:06 am
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Just stumble upon this
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/underrail-the-incline-awakens.105387/page-268#post-5315210
Ok, so the main storyline will be expanded on in a sequel that will come in a relatively distant future.
That's fine with me, but please Styg I beg thee, tell me that it doesn't mean we will start from scratch at level 1 with a new character, or worse, with the same character, the Southgater but send back to level 1, in a Pillard-Of-Eternity-2-backstab fashion
I want to track Tanner with my level 25 - 30 Southgater, the one I built with care and grew fond off. With the stuff I sooooooooooo patiently took time to craft/find.
Thanks for any answers you can give.
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Yep, will need save export system. Would be great.
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I would also like to play my protagonist from Underrail in a sequel. But from a game development standpoint I don't know how they could make it interesting to play if they let you keep your levels and equipment. Will every mugger and jerk in North Underrail be level 20+? Every rathound an ancient? North Underrail is supposed to be LESS dangerous than South Underrail.
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I just don't see it. What, now every guy who wants to buy Underrail 2 would need a character of level 25 to play? Game already is hard enough on casuals, if they need to figure out whole build before playing, most of them would just drop it. Any separate title should be able to be played separately, so any guy who picks up a second part could play it witout needing to have a high level character ready.
Of course, there is always an option of just "importing" character from previous game, but that would mean playing 25 lvl character in game that would be designed to be played from lvl 1. No challenge.
What i WOULD like is to have an option of giving a save with finished game so that my choices in first game would affect world in second. The deeper it affects, the better.
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I think it's too early to talk about Underrail 2 since it's not going to be made anytime soon, but there are basically 3 options:
1. We play with our PC from the first game starting at level 25-30
2. We play with our PC from the first game starting at level 1 again, probably with an in-game explanation
3. We play with a completly new protagonist starting at level 1
The first option is not very feasible for multiple reasons- the first issue would be that starting at such a high level would require new players to come up with an entire build before even starting the game. A standalone game is not an expansion, it should be approachable even for players that didn't play the first one.
The second issue is scaling and progression. Level 25 builds and endgame gear are already very well-defined and powerful, even more so when the cap is raised to 30. I just can't see how to make meaningful and long progression possible past that point. I also can't see how to scale the game's content to such high levels without nonsensical/immersion-breaking decisions like making enemies such as Ancient Rathounds or Inustrial Bots the lowest level trash enemies.
Personally I think the second option would be the best if the explanation for why this happened is plausible. This will both allow continuity between the two games and keep things immersive.
I wouldn't mind the third option either, it's certainly the easiest one to pull off without breaking the immersion. Meeting NPCs from the previous game or even our old protagonist from a different perspective would have a certain charm.
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I think it's too early to talk about Underrail 2 since it's not going to be made anytime soon, but there are basically 3 options:
1. We play with our PC from the first game starting at level 25-30
2. We play with our PC from the first game starting at level 1 again, probably with an in-game explanation
3. We play with a completly new protagonist starting at level 1
The first option is not very feasible for multiple reasons- the first issue would be that starting at such a high level would require new players to come up with an entire build before even starting the game. A standalone game is not an expansion, it should be approachable even for players that didn't play the first one.
The second issue is scaling and progression. Level 25 builds and endgame gear are already very well-defined and powerful, even more so when the cap is raised to 30. I just can't see how to make meaningful and long progression possible past that point. I also can't see how to scale the game's content to such high levels without nonsensical/immersion-breaking decisions like making enemies such as Ancient Rathounds or Inustrial Bots the lowest level trash enemies.
Personally I think the second option would be the best if the explanation for why this happened is plausible. This will both allow continuity between the two games and keep things immersive.
I wouldn't mind the third option either, it's certainly the easiest one to pull off without breaking the immersion. Meeting NPCs from the previous game or even our old protagonist from a different perspective would have a certain charm.
The second option is the worst imho.
It's like the Obsidian's PoE 2 stab on the back : "Ok, so in PoE 2, you'll play the same character as PoE 1, but since the game needs to be playable by the new customers, we're gonna give the finger at the investment your put into that character, and send him back to square one with some idiotics justifications (oops a god was hungry with thy soul so back to level 1, and thy precious artifacts were destroyed with thy keep, so you'll also start the game with a wooden staff/rusty iron sword, like a good level 1 boy)"
Is it so difficult to do Baldur's Gate 2 : ToB or Divinity II : Flames of Vengeance ?
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Is it so difficult to do Baldur's Gate 2 : ToB or Divinity II : Flames of Vengeance ?
ToB was an expansion, not a standalone game. That's pretty much what Expedition will be to Underrail.
Importing characters to Baldur's Gate 2 was only feasible because the first Baldur's Gate was low level D&D with a low level cap. Even then, you started without gear.
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Always hated the weird disconnect sequels bring to these style of RPG's.
Personally, would have much preferred the story either be expanded on in a DLC, or no Sequel at all.
T_T PS: I hate sequels.
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Well you got to remember there's a financial aspect to this as well. Expansion and DLC sales are usually determine by the sale number of the base game. A sequel can possibly draw in a new player base + existing fan base of the original. Like I said before if you like something please support the shit out of it or it'll die and disappear. If sale numbers are good I'm pretty sure we'll get more Underrail and/or other IP by Styg & Co.
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Well you got to remember there's a financial aspect to this as well. Expansion and DLC sales are usually determine by the sale number of the base game. A sequel can possibly draw in a new player base + existing fan base of the original. Like I said before if you like something please support the shit out of it or it'll die and disappear. If sale numbers are good I'm pretty sure we'll get more Underrail and/or other IP by Styg & Co.
Yeah I understand,
It just pains me, the age-old "Original vs. Sequel" disconnect, and the tremendous inconsistencies that plague them (Even when devs try to eliminate inconsistencies, many will prevail).
I truly would hate to have a sequel to underrail, where it could have just been expanded. Perhaps they could make a different IP though. A cool story expansion taking us to North Underrail to a final confrontation would be amazing.
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Is it so difficult to do Baldur's Gate 2 : ToB or Divinity II : Flames of Vengeance ?
In an expansion? No. In a standalone game? Yes, virtually impossible.
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Divinity II : Flames of Vengeance is a stand alone
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Huh? Is it not an expansion pack for Ego Draconis?
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My bad, it's indeed an expansion.
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They could always do an expansion to Underrail 2 that used the protagonist from the first game rather than from the second. Similar things have been done in some other expansions, like for NWN/2. But I think it more likely that they might get around this problem by using Underrail's underpinning theme of temporal weirdness.
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They could always do an expansion to Underrail 2 that used the protagonist from the first game rather than from the second. Similar things have been done in some other expansions, like for NWN/2. But I think it more likely that they might get around this problem by using Underrail's underpinning theme of temporal weirdness.
I understand that there could be some value in doing something like that. But frankly, that might be a little too difficult to implement as a DLC for a sequel. The "temporal weirdness" thing you mention, that's exactly the type of "half-@$$'d" plot device/writing that spurs an RPG sequel T_T. I feel a sequel would taint the story, more so than a "good DLC" to an original-game ever could. (DLC>Sequel)
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There isn't much point discussing the potential Underrail 2 at this time, but if we do make it, you will almost certainly be playing from scratch (for many reasons).
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !
/Hugs
:-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
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There isn't much point discussing the potential Underrail 2 at this time, but if we do make it, you will almost certainly be playing from scratch (for many reasons).
I'm quite happy to start from scratch, but I am distressed by that "if". I am quite attached to the world of Underrail and new developments from Stygian. Perhaps to a slightly unreasonable degree.
Styg, I know you've got plenty of other stuff to think about right now, but maybe after the expansion is out you could give us an overview on where Stygian is headed. Allow those of us with excessive attachment to scale our expectations appropriately.
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Originally, I wasn't going to post here because I don't like to speculate on these things and get myself and others all hyped up for possibilities which may not be realized, but what the heck. Styg has commented here, so I guess he doesn't mind us discussing this.
3. We play with a completly new protagonist starting at level 1
(...)
I wouldn't mind the third option either, it's certainly the easiest one to pull off without breaking the immersion. Meeting NPCs from the previous game or even our old protagonist from a different perspective would have a certain charm.
In my personal opinion, this seems like the wisest option for several reasons.
First, it doesn't require players to have beaten Underrail in order to understand what's going on in the second game, which is hugely important considering how few members of the community have actually completed a play-through. If the Steam forums are any indication, most people quit once they reach Depot A--or if they're more rugged, Deep Caverns.
Second, a fresh start with a new character means that there doesn't have to be any crazy timelapse vertigo shenanigans explaining why the original player character lost all their gear, skills, stats, and levels on the train ride north. I don't care how well it's executed, people still won't like it.
Third, it allows us the possibility to see the Underrail from the perspective of someone who grew up in the North instead of the South like the original PC.
Fourth--and for me the most exciting--it means that we might be able to interact with the protagonist like they're just another NPC. Maybe Underrail 2 could take place a few years after the events of Underrail, and the protagonist has seated themselves as the leader of the Protectorate/Free Drones/Oculus/whatever, depending on your actions in the original. Or, since that would be very cumbersome to pull off, maybe they just become a bartender who is looking for Tanner undercover. Regardless, it brings up a lot of cool possibilities. Maybe you could even fight alongside your original character against Tanner, or you could actually fight against them in a match to decide who's the better protagonist. :P
Or maybe the canon ending is the protagonist becomes the next Dread Pirate Roberts on the Black Sea, or they take over Tanner's job at SGS? (But that's less exciting. ;))
Whatever the result may be, there's a lot of potential in a full restart. Yeah, you won't be able to continue your original journey and maintain your role-play, but this way you get the opportunity to play a whole new role. I do honestly think it's too early to be discussing all of this stuff, though. Don't tell me the hype for Expedition has burned out already! I still want to sail the high sea(s) on my jet ski and stab people in the face with spears like Achilles! Also, the new music sounds rad as hell. Hype!
EDIT: On a completely different note, I see that the devs have ascended from Faceless into Godmen. Congratulations! Just don't let Azif find out, or he'll never stop pestering you guys for autographs. ;D
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Don't tell me the hype for Expedition has burned out already!
Kind of hard to keep the interest after waiting for a long time with little news.
There are such an abundanoe of digital pasttimes today, that a developer team has to be active with communiaction if they wish to keep an active community.
(The guys from Paradox are a good example. Always buggy games on release, but daily feedback to the community, and weekly dev diarys. The players keep the faith and await the updates with anticipation.)
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I don't care if it will be new PC, or same PC, will it be 1 lvl or 25 lvl.
But I think that we need Expedition - not "as soon as possible", but soon, in the first appropriate time window.
For now DOS2 dominates minds, in next month or two people will get enough of it, and after that it wil be the time.
I'd promised I would help quickly test the game and report bugs if I knew what would happen to me tomorrow, but I don't.
So my advice is to release expansion faster, in time window that is most appropriate for this, bugs will be stomped with community's help.
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Styg, I know you've got plenty of other stuff to think about right now, but maybe after the expansion is out you could give us an overview on where Stygian is headed. Allow those of us with excessive attachment to scale our expectations appropriately.
I will do this.
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I will do this.
@Styg Looking forward to the update.
@Altos Yes, it's another chance at roleplay... but I hate how sequels continuously mar/taint the continuity and overall feel of the original RPG. "Good" RPG sequels are hard to come by, and I don't feel like Underrail's ending really sets up for a new character story (starting at level 1). Unless there's a planned Underrail 3 and 4...
I don't like the idea of a sequel in this scenario, and not only for the story-oriented concerns, but for the legacy of Underrail 1. But obviously if there was going to be one, now would be a pointless time to discuss it.
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Underrail still has a big opportunity with future story-based DLC, and the ability to wrap up a story in an interesting and compelling way.
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I will do this.
Great, thanks.
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Underrail 2: release date 3026
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I was reading the different ending conditions on the wiki, and it got me thinking of having the protagonist from the first game as an NPC in the sequel as well. That could allow for a minor "old save bonus" too, with the character perhaps providing some extra training and/or equipment to the new main character depending on the character build on the old save and such.