Underrail Forum
Underrail => General => Topic started by: Crowley on October 14, 2017, 12:08:17 am
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I'm trying to wrap my brain around the logic of what you need to do to join the Free Drones if you find the train but persuade them to leave because they are hurting people who have nothing to do with their battle. You need to go the Herve and tell him you couldn't find the train. Why? This course of action to me makes the player character seem like an asshole who comes across resources and then decides to deny everyone from obtaining them, just because. Also if you do this, the train will be gone just the same as if you left the Drones who captured it be and just told Herve you couldn't find the train. Did they suddenly decide that your reasoning isn't valid after thinking it over? Did some random group of scavengers come across the train precisely the in the time it took you to go to Rail Crossing and back? I am also not clear on the logic that would make the Free Drones decide you would be a valuable recruit if you first convince them that Rail Crossing should receive the shipment, but don't follow through on that. That makes the player character seem like he/she is just paying lip service to not hurting innocent bystanders but not following through with actions.
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The Free Drones want to stop the protectorate from spreading, even if it means being terrorists in the process. To them, keeping one village from getting resources is a small price to pay to keep the protectorate from turning that town into a fort or whatever.
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The OP's point was that it makes little sense for you to be able to persuade the Drones to leave the train alone, and then go tell Herve you couldn't find the train anyway, and still join the Drones later on. I agree with that, doesn't seem to make any sense.
I don't know why you would even be able to lie to Herve after sending the Drones on their way (what's the point of your character doing so?), nor what happens to the train after this, nor why the Drones would be interested in recruiting you after you stopped them. If anything it seems like following this route should lock you out of both factions.
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Anyhow, I think this is the only way to join Free Drones without dooming Rail Crossing.
I see.
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+1 To OP's point here. I remember this particular part of the questline bothered me as well.
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And your way with words must've impressed someone in the drones.
Except they don't if you return the train to Protectorate. Doesn't make any sense.
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They wouldn't, but why would they take you in if you stopped their plans and then randomly lied to Herve after doing so? I can't think of why you'd do this except to be a dick for no reason. It's a weird sequence of events culminating in... I guess the Free Drones assuming you had a change of heart after convincing their agents? But is it the Protectorate who reclaim the train in this scenario? If so why would the Drones want anything to do with you? You screwed their plans up.
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Maybe it's because you talked some sense into them without fighting them or turning them in to the protectorate?
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Uh, it's a bug. IIRC You're not supposed to have the [Lie] option after persuading the Drones to hand over the train, and thus none of the weird "you messed up our plans real bad but we still really like you" gets to happen. However, I could leave the lie option for those players who want to be absolute jerks, as Sanger pointed out, but the Drones won't approach you after that, of course.
What do you guys think?
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We should have a dedicated line during the persuation option to tell the Free Drone that we understand their fight against the protectorate but can't condone the fact that they doom Rail Crossing bye stealing the supplies, then let Rail Crossing have the supplies (ie : not lie to the mayor), and then have both choice offer to us.
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Uh, it's a bug. IIRC You're not supposed to have the [Lie] option after persuading the Drones to hand over the train, and thus none of the weird "you messed up our plans real bad but we still really like you" gets to happen. However, I could leave the lie option for those players who want to be absolute jerks, as Sanger pointed out, but the Drones won't approach you after that, of course.
What do you guys think?
Well, that certainly explains a lot. Perhaps there could be some additional incentive to not letting anyone have the shipment, like maybe telling some other party about it and you'll gain more money out of that, but no favour with any faction?
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Uh, it's a bug. IIRC You're not supposed to have the [Lie] option after persuading the Drones to hand over the train, and thus none of the weird "you messed up our plans real bad but we still really like you" gets to happen. However, I could leave the lie option for those players who want to be absolute jerks, as Sanger pointed out, but the Drones won't approach you after that, of course.
What do you guys think?
I would probably just remove the option, but I do see why you'd leave it in just to give the player the ability to make mistakes. In either case though, it definitely ought to lock you out of both factions.
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We should have a dedicated line during the persuation option to tell the Free Drone that we understand their fight against the protectorate but can't condone the fact that they doom Rail Crossing bye stealing the supplies, then let Rail Crossing have the supplies (ie : not lie to the mayor), and then have both choice offer to us.
So basically I'm in favor of this idea. Letting smooth talkers have an option to fix internal issues of the drones (mirroring how you can resolve the protectorate renegade situation) makes them more appealing faction and more impactful persuasion options are always welcome.
It seems like a bit of an ideological cop-out to me, but I can't deny that any measure to make Persuasion more attractive would be good.
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Wait, let me reiterate what I get from what's being said. So, initially, IF we managed to persuade the FD to leave the train alone BECAUSE RC needs it badly.... and then we go to Herve and tell him about the truth about the train, but NOT report to SRO.... then we can still join FD? But that means.... RC can get the train by themselves without having to rely on Protectorate to recover it? What about the ending slides? Will RC get annexed by Protectorate, anyway?
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We should have a dedicated line during the persuation option to tell the Free Drone that we understand their fight against the protectorate but can't condone the fact that they doom Rail Crossing bye stealing the supplies, then let Rail Crossing have the supplies (ie : not lie to the mayor), and then have both choice offer to us.
Good solution right here. What bothers me as of right now is: Why should the Free Drones dislike/refuse to work with you if you persuaded them to leave the train? Persuasion implies influencing and changing their point of view to where it will now align with yours on this particular issue.
This is what had me frustrated, moreso than how lying to Herve could change things around(although this makes it even more nonsensical).
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Good solution right here. What bothers me as of right now is: Why should the Free Drones dislike/refuse to work with you if you persuaded them to leave the train? Persuasion implies influencing and changing their point of view to where it will now align with yours on this particular issue.
You persuaded a few grunts sent to execute an operation. You didn't persuade the cell leaders of anything.
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Good solution right here. What bothers me as of right now is: Why should the Free Drones dislike/refuse to work with you if you persuaded them to leave the train? Persuasion implies influencing and changing their point of view to where it will now align with yours on this particular issue.
You persuaded a few grunts sent to execute an operation. You didn't persuade the cell leaders of anything.
What are said grunts going to tell the cell leaders, though?
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Probably that they realised screwing Rail Crossing over just to impede the progress of the Protectorate was wrong. Whereupon they would be reprimanded by the cell leaders for screwing up their task and being easily influenced by passing randoms with a few pretty words. The PC might be able to persuade a few footsoldiers that the ends don't justify the means in this case, but I strongly doubt someone like Trenton could be persuaded of this.
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Probably that they realised screwing Rail Crossing over just to impede the progress of the Protectorate was wrong. Whereupon they would be reprimanded by the cell leaders for screwing up their task and being easily influenced by passing randoms with a few pretty words. The PC might be able to persuade a few footsoldiers that the ends don't justify the means in this case, but I strongly doubt someone like Trenton could be persuaded of this.
This sums it up, pretty much.
There's been a lot of interesting comments here, and I really like the idea of convincing the Free Drones to somehow help RC against Ironheads (but that option will most likely only be possible after joining the Free Drones). I can't promise anything right now as we've got our hands full, but I'll write down some of the ideas and leave it for after the expansion has been released. For now, I'll simply remove the [Lie] option if the player has convinced the footsoldiers to leave the train as I've previously mentioned.
Appreciate the input, folks. Cheers! :)
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If we are talking about saving RC from Ironheads, then maybe you should consider death of Balor to make some sort of impact on that? I mean, my character killed every damn ironhead he could find on the map and wiped their base from the face of the underrail, yet somehow they still could obliterate RC just fine.
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If we are talking about saving RC from Ironheads, then maybe you should consider death of Balor to make some sort of impact on that? I mean, my character killed every damn ironhead he could find on the map and wiped their base from the face of the underrail, yet somehow they still could obliterate RC just fine.
Noted. :)
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Honestly to say, that option FD helping RC isn't very realistic relatively to rel life, as any resistance movement \partisans only cares about their movement's survivability, not about peasants around, and demand from them under threat of torture and death.
But... in game perspective it doesn't matter possibly.
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Honestly to say, that option FD helping RC isn't very realistic relatively to rel life, as any resistance movement \partisans only cares about their movement's survivability, not about peasants around, and demand from them under threat of torture and death.
But... in game perspective it doesn't matter possibly.
Not at all true the FARC,IRA,EOKA and Modern ELN along other movements base their tactics upon the support and aid in which these communities provide,especially in small and rural communities but not limited to such
As a example the IRA (A movement which excelled at urban guerilla warfare and winning the propaganda war) during our War for Independence lived and died from the support they possessed from rural communities which aided their asymmetrical warfare by hiding arms,feeding fighters,masking members and spreading the misdeads of the Brits being the Brits (spreading propaganda) like rail crossing back when my country was a shithole. A tradition which unfortunately was upheld by many communities during the Provo IRAs campaign despite their immoral actions.
Other movements sometimes even provide aid to these areas to garner the support of groups disenfranchised by the governing power (eg. ELN atm provides cash/medicine for communities and aids in construction efforts in exchange for hiding spots from the Columbian government and potential fighters https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V34r_lTZNjg .)
That isn't to say Insurgent movements which commit such actions don't exist but their tactics tends to have much less local support and usually ends up controlling its occupied territory through tyranny,but that tends to get you hated by everyone like ISIL or the United National Liberation Front in india. However Free drones don't strike me as the type to do this considering that they have cells trading in the junkyard which weren't discovered by the protectorate (so probably a few locals with loyalty to the anarchy) and quite a lot of sympathizers across the southern rail that would label the institute of Tschort as terrorist before them.
P.S: Sorry for necroing the topic but felt like going full Bio warfare pirate anarchist for expedition but the rail crossing actions made me feel like a heartless bastard that doesn't care at all for the settlements I claim to be protecting from the war crimes squad.....Which ironically does care slightly for it's expansion of territory,power and influence ......oh well but on a side note hope to see some more fasci....I mean protectorate and free drones love soon after expeditions final polish is done :)
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This sums it up, pretty much.
There's been a lot of interesting comments here, and I really like the idea of convincing the Free Drones to somehow help RC against Ironheads (but that option will most likely only be possible after joining the Free Drones). I can't promise anything right now as we've got our hands full, but I'll write down some of the ideas and leave it for after the expansion has been released. For now, I'll simply remove the [Lie] option if the player has convinced the footsoldiers to leave the train as I've previously mentioned.
Appreciate the input, folks. Cheers! :)
I apologise for resurrecting this topic - but: Has anything changed in that regard?
It would be cool to have the option mentioned here and there: to persuade Free Drones to leave the train, help Rail Crossing to get supplies then lie to Protectorate who did this and THEN to join/help Free Drones...