Underrail Forum
Underrail => General => Topic started by: Vokial on May 13, 2020, 01:22:50 pm
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Ok, I began typing this on another topic about something else, and since I don't plan to derail it, while also not prefer to loose these thoughts, I present it on a separate thread here. Don't know how popular snipers are at the moment, but I know firearms are not and just wanted to share my experience with them.
Enemies with high DT is just one of the reasons why I prefer firearm pistols to be paired as sidearms with sniper rifles instead of SMG's or shotguns. When you need to deliver big hits against high DT you need huge caliber single shots - what are the weapons that share this aspect? Sniper rifle and a Hammerer. For anything that manages to reach close proximity, a Kneecap Shot or Rapid Fire from a nice .44 is simply a better choice. With damage possibly doubled due to the vicious combination of a 150q Smart module and goggles (latter basically equals to 6 shots with .44 rounds compared to the unconditioned 5 bullets from a caliber of 8.6 or likely below) and a +11% more chance to crit that is additionally 30% more deadly due to Steadfast Aim and Sharpshooter. And a crit with a Kneecap Shot is extra sweet due to the now astronomical bleed. These two special attacks gain benefit from high calibers and unlike bursts, they do not fire in a cone but each bullet is aimed at the same enemy - making them more reliable when firing on single targets (like an unattended melee that's about to get close).
Also snipers doesn't get much from high dexterity, so raising DEX for the sake of SMG's means spreading stat points too widely is not smart. 44's don't benefit nearly as much from that stat either, so with a Rapid Reloader and Gunslinger, it doesn't worth to increase DEX above 8. That'll be enough to perform a Kneecap Shot for 20 AP or a Rapid Fire for 30. Enjoy your free additional stat points - you're welcome.
That being said, compared to SMG's, even shotguns can prove to be a better choice, but I'm in favor of pistols, them being a lot more... aesthetically side arm-like. An example of this is them providing +7 Initiative. Now that's utility. They can also Rapid Fire AoE with the pistol-only Explosive rounds (always a crowd pleaser), having the two mentioned special attacks not just Kneecap Shot, with the fact that Sharpshooter applies on both of our guns. They just get along well.
And that's why a lot of people missunderstand pistols. Unlike AR's, they are not quite enough for everything the game throws at you, but perhaps they are not meant to be employed like that. Then again, the same applies for the sniper rifle too. It's a specific weapon for a particular situation. Every now and then, you just need something to go along with it. But pair these two together, see how well they complete each other and you'll have a match made in heaven.
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I have used 44 pistols, the main problem with them is that they are consistently inconsistent. Crits and explosive rounds make this less of a problem.
When RNG is on your side they become a very powerful weapon, and with high DEX investment you can clear rooms in single turns [on normal not sure about dominating] with an average crit damage of 150-400 around level 20 and execute crits doing over a 1000 damage. [more with smart goggles] As a weapon they require a lot of investment to compare to other weapons. Also 44 pistols gain a lot of damage from investment in PER.
As said above they are inconsistent, and this usually leads to a lot frustration mostly in the early game like dealing 14 damage crits.
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Tygrende has similar views, and I agree as well. Here's his sniper build with suggestions for gear. I think I'd probably go for a rapid smart pistol myself, though, but I haven't actually played a gunner like this.
(https://i.imgur.com/iezugDj.png)
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I've been saying that pistols are underrated as a sniper's sidearm since forever, but for somewhat different reasons.
The way I play my sniper builds, the sidearm is only ever used to provide utility and when the sniper rifle cannot be used effectively. The biggest and argueably only selling point of SMGs and shotguns over pistols is the pure DPS advantage, which I do not much care for, since it's the rifle that is supposed to be the actual damage dealer 99% of the time. Pistols on the other hand provide +7 initiative with Gunslinger, which is great for me because I like stacking high initiative on not-so-tanky builds in case the stealth approach failed or isn't possible (arena fights, fights started via dialog, etc.). Both SMGs and pistols can use Kneecap Shot, which is a great ability for snipers to have, but pistols have better range with less precision drop over distance and a Neo Luger frame which has an inherent 5% precision bonus. I only care about Kneecap Shot hitting to slow the enemy down, which pistols will do much more reliably than SMGs will thanks to that precision advantage, especially against high evasion enemies like, say, death stalkers. This is why you will see me recommending a laser sight Neo Luger in the picture above, to maximize that precision bonus. Even the DPS gap between SMGs/Shotguns is smaller than it may look, thanks to Sharpshooter benefiting the latter but not the former. Add rapid fire and you get adequate DPS from pistols, the increase from other options really doesn't make up for initiative loss and less reliable/no kneecap shot for me.
Shotguns are immediately disqualified from being a good sniper sidearm if you ask me, because they have a STR requirement, the same goes for ARs. The main point of a sidearm for a sniper is to have something that can be used when the sniper rifle can't. One of the most common situations where the sniper rifle cannot be used is getting hit with crippling strike, which reduces STR by 2 per stack. Having your STR 2 points below the weapon requirement will completly cripple your precision, usually all the way to the minimum 10% chance to hit. There's no shortage of enemies that use this ability, from various knife-wielding enemies through crabs to Carnifex. One stack you can somewhat deal with by using adrenaline to gain that 2 STR back for 3 turns, but that's only if you can end the fight in those 3 turns. If you can't, or you have 2 or more stacks, having 2 weapons that you pretty much cannot hit anything with is typically a death sentence. The fact that neither shotguns nor ARs can use Kneecap Shot doesn't help, either.
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It's nice. I know Hammerers can sometimes have pretty random numbers in damage, and I admit, I rolled with a Rapid 9mm Neo Luger LS a lot before level 20 and loved how reliable it was. Constant damage and precision. Tried a 9mm Falchion too for the +5% critical chance but not that long to be able to safely decide which was better because I finally found a nice frame to .44 Hammerer, the damage jumped through the roof so much, I got hooked on it. The thing is, this weapon basically have the same minimal damage of other 9mm pistols of the same quality, but the upper damage has such a substantial jump with the 44's almost to the level of sniper rifles. And that makes a difference more times than not. It's a waste to use it against random critters, it's not made to fire regular shots like a Falchion. But performs best when doing special attacks. My Rapid Neo Luger LS was great to precisely hit kneecaps when all that mattered is to land the shot and slow the enemy from the further the better. With the .44's bigger damage, the huge bleed made the difference.
Anycase, here's my build:
(https://imgur.com/wDDlIhc.png)
Just look at those nice, round, even numbers with the skills. It's now tailored for playthroughs on higher difficulty with Mercantile added aside Pickpocket, so beside stealing various stuff and oddities, we're granted with more financial stability and access to higher materials. Hacking, Lockpicking and Traps can be raised up to 125-130 with further equipment and food. Can independently craft consumables up to Bullheads and mk IV Frag Grenades, for end-game equipment he does rely on Hypercerebrix or/and a bench for a maximum of 135/155 points in the skills related. Blindsiding, while it comes in to play 99% of the fights and to compensate having the relatively low 13 PER, seeing the above build made me think whether it would be better to switch it for Strafe as it completely negates the penalty of the Spearhead and that would be excellent in cornerfights wielding that rifle.
Wearing Smart Goggles by default, but carry one that's motion tracking with night vision. Being a glass-build with 3 CON, I maxed Evasion for +50% blast damage resistance and wearing a Sturdy Tactical Vest for bullet protection with fully specialised in Ballistics. I am now comfortable in using black cloth in both armor and Tabi boots for more stealth and keeping the penalty low.
Having these values in such high priority and invested so many skill points into them, I went with 8 Agility. The MP and Initiative bonus is nice, but mainly I wanted the build to have it's skills reflected in it's stats as much as possible with the exclusion of still dipping into psi despite having the lowest will. However one can totally just drop AGI to 3, raise PER to 18, drop Blindsiding to take Trigger Happy for the now 35 Initiative and be as deadly as possible. For me it would be troubling to see a sniper sneaking around constantly, but having the lowest agility for the sake of min-maxing, but I completely understand if others might go for that especially on dominating.
EDIT:
Tygrende, I now see your post and it made a part of mine obsolete. It was nice to read it and see how somebody came to the same conclusion, and you pointing out why weapons having higher strength requirement being no good is definetly a valid argument that did not came to my mind yet. This build worked well in Normal, but I abandoned it at level 24 to try Dominating for the first time with it. So any insight is highly appreciated.
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It's a waste to use it against random critters, it's not made to fire regular shots like a Falchion. But performs best when doing special attacks.
That's actually a bad thing in the context of being a sidearm for a sniper build. Hammerers, especially .44 ones, perform the best when using Aimed Shot to capitalize on the crit damage. Thing is, Aimed Shot is the bread and butter ability of sniper rifles already, so now you have two weapons competing for being used with it. It's better to save your Aimed Shots for the rifle and go with a secondary that doesn't need it that much. That said, later on, when you start stacking your crit chance, hammerers can still be a decent choice. I beat the game on DOMINATING with the build harperfan posted, by the way.
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I use Hammerer mostly with Rapid Fire and Kneecap Shot to make the most out of those abilities and mainly against close encounters. It also benefits the most from Steadfast Aim out of all kinds of pistols (11%), a feat I might as well take if my STR already have to be 5. Aimed Shot is preferable with the rifle yes, as it also contributes in decreasing it's cooldown. Hammerer was very useful against those Lunatic and Ironhead camps in the upper areas where I first focused on enemies with crossbows and grenades.
Yep, your's a nice build. Made me really think about including Strafe in mine. There are differences, for example I like having 8 in DEX no more no less here, and to specialize in Psycho-Temporal Acc. for the additional third shot with the Spearhead.
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Strafe is extremaly good for sniper rifles, I wouldn't make a sniper build without it. I'd pick it earlier if I was to play again, like in this non-psi version:
(https://i.imgur.com/S6pcYie.png)
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Why overinvest so much in Hacking, Lockpicking, and Persuasion? Just for ease of play so you don't have to gear swap to hit the thresholds?
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Allright, Strafe sounds better the more I think about it. I know there were situations where I direly felt the need for it, I'll see if I'll end up missing Blindsiding as much or not. It's also mobility related so at least as fitting as the one I replace it with. Gonna go for Strafe this time.
I'm also interested in seeing how much difference Mercantile makes. I remember suffering from low quality wares, but since I had 6 INT in my previous attempt, I was not able to squeeze it in. Decided on it instead of Persuasion, upon realizing that it is governed by INT instead of WIL and being able to save Buzzer with another peaceful method.
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Why overinvest so much in Hacking, Lockpicking, and Persuasion? Just for ease of play so you don't have to gear swap to hit the thresholds?
Persuasion is just for fun, I like having it and wasn't sure what the highest check in Expedition was at the time. Both hacking and lockpicking are high enough to open absolutely everything in the game and hack IRIS. I may have forgotten to include the huxkey/jackknife in the builder. The build is not starved for points at all, it's not that important. Those skills are anything but set in stone, it all depends on whether I find some really high quality components that would require more investment in a particular crafting skill, if I want open a particular thing at the time, etc.
I'll see if I'll end up missing Blindsiding as much or not.
Snipers really don't need it. Snipe doesn't need a 15% damage increase, the Aimed Shot you will use right after coming out of stealth doesn't need it either, both are overwhelmingly likely to overkill anyways or just not make a difference. It's almost a wasted feat.
I'm also interested in seeing how much difference Mercantile makes.
It's a nice thing to have, can potentially get you best quality components towards the end of the game. That and nice jet skis, some drugs, etc.
Also, what was your armor of choice?
Tac vest until you get an energy shield. Maybe siphoner/mutant dog leather just for Depot A. After you get an energy shield, either keep using a tac vest with a laminated panel and regen vest, or a sturdy riot gear with reinforced panel if you want better anti-melee protection, especially if you want to have a chance of not being killed by a death stalker in 1 turn. After you do the Beast and get high quality supersteel, upgrade to infused leather pig armor with high density padding. Crazy good mech DR, especially vs. melee, with crazy high HP bonus for sufficently light armor penalty.
(https://i.imgur.com/f0kvmhy.png)
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Geezus, that does seems nice, especially with low CON.
Thank you for the insights, getting these infos from different viewpoints, made me consider new options.
Aesthetically, I do like Tactical Vests the most, and the anti-bullet specialization is something I plan to hold on to. I know this will bring me hard times against crawlers and melee enemies in general (which is a thing in the DLC), but I stick by them. Settling on a Sturdy version for it's simpleness. I realized, that I might get more use of this kind of armor than a Regenerative one as if it still don't kick in on me being 71% or above HP, then with my low HP pool, the next hit might bring be below 50% easily. But the kind of Riot Gear you mentioned made out of a Biohazard carrier vest combined with the my Ballistics feat would be a nice piece specifically against crawlers. In theory. Not like there would be the luxury of carrying around an armor against a certain type of enemy, but most cases they find me first so "tanking" them is something that might happen despite if I'm prepared for it or not.
On a different topic - following on the idea of what are the roles of main and sidearms with a sniper, I thought on how I can alter my build so it will reflect this more taking it into extremities. Just for the sake of theory crafting. And that led me to the following:
What if I completely abandon the idea of dealing relevant damage with the pistol and purely focus on using it for reasons of utility. That would mean me dropping Steadfast Aim and Rapid Shot (which is purely an offensive skill), while taking Trigger Happy for a whopping 40 initiative. With those two feats now gone, it makes less sense in using Hammerers, so might even go with a Silent Neo Luger LS instead. Solely for precisely slowing enemies and to boost our Initiative.
As for our rifle, the approach is now the exact opposite. Maybe 3 shots from a move and shoot penalty free Spearhead still ends up remaining superior overall and muh more easy to handle, but this is just food for thought here. We can ditch the Spearhead for a Rapid Smart Corsair 12.7mm with AA scope and boost the whole thing with Gun Nut (which benefits Corsairs the most). With it's much higher move and shoot penalty, Strafe would no longer make a difference and can be switched for further damage overkill with Blindsiding. Specializing in Psy-Temp-Acc. would make us fire this monster twice in a turn for it's cost of 36 AP per shot. Contaminated rounds seem so good, although I never used them yet. It would look like something like this.
(https://imgur.com/ZA0i04f.png)
...actually, since there's no more Spearhead thus no Strafe, we could have 3 AGI for 18 PER for maximizing Aimed Shot damage even more.
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Yeah, it's a shame stealthy leather looks so lame. A biohazard vest won't do a damn thing against crawlers, since their bio damage is poison, which bypasses resistances. A regen vest is much better against them (aside from being 1hko'd) because its healing isn't affected by hyperallergenic.
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As for our rifle, the approach is the exact opposite. We can ditch the Spearhead for a Rapid Smart Corsair 12.7mm with AA scope
Sorry, but that's a terrible idea, unless you are trying to handicap yourself to make the game A LOT harder. The ability to shoot twice with spearhead with base 50 AP and 3 or even 4 times with bonus AP is an overwhelming advantage compared to just once or twice with other sniper rifles. Especially on DOMINATING, which throws really big swarms of enemies at you. Smart A-A spearhead can easily 1-shot almost everything in the game, with the exception of only a few boss enemies on DOMINATING, so you will be essentialy cutting the amount of enemies killed each turn in half. And there will be a lot of them on DOMINATING. Really, a lot.
and boost the whole thing with Gun Nut (which benefits Corsairs the most).
Gun Nut is a pretty bad feat in general. The DPS increase is minimal and unreliable due to only increasing the upper damage range. It's an especially bad feat for sniper rifles, since they are not about sustained DPS, they are about reliable 1-shots. Increasing the upper damage range won't make them more reliable in any meaningful way since the lowest possible damage will stay the same.
With it's much higher move and shoot penalty, Strafe would no longer make a difference and can be switched for further damage overkill with Blindsiding.
But why would you want even more overkill? That's investing into wasted damage that doesn't benefit you at all. The only way it could benefit you is if you wanted to kill all DOMINATING bosses in 1 shot, but that's hardly worth giving up the ability to shoot twice which is much more important 99% of the time. Or if you wanted to see big numbers jst for the sake of it, I guess, but it won't make the actual game any easier.
Contaminated rounds seem so good, although I never used them yet.
They're rather bad, actually. 20-60 bonus damage is nothing for a weapon that reaches into thousands and only shoots once per turn. The cloud of toxic gas is also not much help, since you will 1-shoting everything anyways. Contaminated rounds would work much better with any gun OTHER than sniper rifles.
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As for our rifle, the approach is the exact opposite. We can ditch the Spearhead for a Rapid Smart Corsair 12.7mm with AA scope
Sorry, but that's a terrible idea, unless you are trying to handicap yourself to make the game A LOT harder. The ability to shoot twice with spearhead with base 50 AP and 3 or even 4 times with bonus AP is an overwhelming advantage compared to just once or twice with other sniper rifles. Especially on DOMINATING, which throws really big swarms of enemies at you. Smart A-A spearhead can easily 1-shot almost everything in the game, with the exception of only a few boss enemies on DOMINATING, so you will be essentialy cutting the amount of enemies killed each turn in half. And there will be a lot of them on DOMINATING. Really, a lot.
and boost the whole thing with Gun Nut (which benefits Corsairs the most).
Gun Nut is a pretty bad feat in general. The DPS increase is minimal and unreliable due to only increasing the upper damage range. It's an especially bad feat for sniper rifles, since they are not about sustained DPS, they are about reliable 1-shots. Increasing the upper damage range won't make them more reliable in any meaningful way since the lowest possible damage will stay the same.
With it's much higher move and shoot penalty, Strafe would no longer make a difference and can be switched for further damage overkill with Blindsiding.
But why would you want even more overkill? That's investing into wasted damage that doesn't benefit you at all. The only way it could benefit you is if you wanted to kill all DOMINATING bosses in 1 shot, but that's hardly worth giving up the ability to shoot twice which is much more important 99% of the time. Or if you wanted to see big numbers just for the sake of it, I guess, but it won't make the actual game any easier.
Contaminated rounds seem so good, although I never used them yet.
They're rather bad, actually. 20-60 bonus damage is nothing for a weapon that reaches into thousands and only shoots once per turn. The cloud of toxic gas is also not much help, since you will 1-shoting everything anyways. Contaminated rounds would work much better with any gun OTHER than sniper rifles.
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Yeah, not much surprise here. It's just sounds so nice to try once:) Move and shoot penalty free Spearheads firing 3 times does make it an overall more user friendly weapon that would prove to be significantly reliable in a wider range of scenarios. Gun Nut would rarely benefit any weapon since even if it hits the higher territory, it would still be unlikely to reach it's full potential, the increase would be mostly between 0-15%. Again, IF it happen to score that part.
It's kind of demoralizing to hear about the enemy number increase though considering I plan on playing Oddity this time. Not much to do about it I guess.
Also, taking the high damage output of sniper rifles into account, the 7.62mm Micro-Shrapnel rounds actually seem to be more devastating. Also made up of materials that are perhaps one of the easiest to access. The bleed should be immense after an Aimed Shot. Probably great on AR's too (then again, 8.6mm Incendiary bursts could be pretty much flamethrowers).
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Also, taking the high damage output of sniper rifles into account, the 7.62mm Micro-Shrapnel rounds does seem more devastating. Also made up of materials that are perhaps one of the easiest to access.
It is quite good for increasing damage with non-crit hits. It may even be worth making before you get your hands on AP ammo blueprint. But once you can actually make AP ammo, you're much better off using your spent cases on that, being able to use AP without worrying about conserving it is much better. You will probably have it much sooner with mercantile, too.
It's kind of demoralizing to hear about the enemy number increase though considering I plan on playing Oddity this time. Not much to do about it I guess.
Oddity is the better system regardless of how many enemies there are. But hey, the more enemies, the sooner you will max out their oddities, so you will level up a bit faster on oddity as well.
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It is quite good for increasing damage with non-crit hits. It may even be worth making before you get your hands on AP ammo blueprint. But once you can actually make AP ammo, you're much better off using your spent cases on that, being able to use AP without worrying about conserving it is much better. You will probably have it much sooner with mercantile, too.
It's a pity that from what I've seen on my previous play, I found bullet casings to be very-very rare. Especially for .44's. Makes sense to always purchase AP rounds from shops as much as possible.
Oddity is the better system regardless of how many enemies there are. But hey, the more enemies, the sooner you will max out their oddities, so you will level up a bit faster on oddity as well.
Guess that's a good way to look at things.
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It's a pity that from what I've seen on my previous play, I found bullet casings to be very-very rare.
There's a 30% chance to get a spent case in your inventory each time you shoot. You could go as far as buying ammo from traders, then shooting it all at the SGS range to get more cases.
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There's a 30% chance to get a spent case in your inventory each time you shoot. You could go as far as buying ammo from traders, then shooting it all at the SGS range to get more cases.
Totally missed that. I guess it would've been more apparent with higher bullet consumtion. Thanks.
A biohazard vest won't do a damn thing against crawlers, since their bio damage is poison, which bypasses resistances. A regen vest is much better against them (aside from being 1hko'd) because its healing isn't affected by hyperallergenic.
Also new info. Sad, crawlers were my main reason to ever use them.
I'm happy about this thread, so far got a more out of it than I thought. The addition of Strafe is perhaps the most valuable info for me. I remember easily disregarding it after I first saw it. Now the more I think about it, the more I like it. It just sounds so convenient to completely eliminate the penalty from the build allowing me to confidently move around, kite and make better use of the enviroment.
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Biohazard vests are good to have in the black sea, since there are so many enemies that like to shoot bio projectiles, not to mention all the gas clouds. However, the game throws the sec trooper helmets, biohazard boots, and heartbreaker leather at you (not to mention the CAU) so I imagine most people don't bother.
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Biohazard vests are good to have in the black sea, since there are so many enemies that like to shoot bio projectiles, not to mention all the gas clouds. However, the game throws the sec trooper helmets, biohazard boots, and heartbreaker leather at you (not to mention the CAU) so I imagine most people don't bother.
CAU armor seems nice. I know both sides of that conflict can obtain it one way or another. Possibly the most powerful unique armor solely for those insane resistances, still would prefer a hand crafted tac-vest with less penalty and more stealth if possible. Yet I fear there's probably no way one could have that much Bio DR from a carrier vest. Then again that's just a single aspect of an armor, so we'll see when we get there.
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A q160 one is just a hair worse at bio protection.
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A q160 one is just a hair worse at bio protection.
That is what I hoped, thanks for confirming.
One question remains, is it worth to consider adding Hit and Run to a sniper build? I don't have any experience with it, but it might not be the worst idea, keeping distance was always important. And the specialisation bonus is immense. Although this would strongly suggest me spending all my MP before scoring at least one (more) sure kill.
Possibly why Sprint seem to be more popular, Hit and Run need to kick in twice in order to get close to what Sprint brings on command, although a not more than a total of 30+30 MP each fight. Basic H&R has slightly less MP bonus and more restricting ways to invoke. Compared to that, the real benefit would only come from the 3rd kill onwards. That leads me to think that it might not prove to be that useful in most battles as even if I recieve the bonus I might not even be able to use it due to the map not being big enough or me not having a reason to change my location that much. But would probably be useful in big areas with many enemies like Balor's camp and might even be pretty spectacular against endless waves of natives.
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One question remains, is it worth to consider adding Hit and Run to a sniper build? I don't have any experience with it, but it might not be the worst idea, keeping distance was always important. And the specialisation bonus is immense. Although this would strongly suggest me spending all my MP before scoring at least one (more) sure kill.
Possibly why Sprint seem to be more popular, Hit and Run need to kick in twice in order to get close to what Sprint brings on command, although a not more than a total of 30+30 MP each fight. Basic H&R has slightly less MP bonus and more restricting ways to invoke. Compared to that, the real benefit would only come from the 3rd kill onwards. That leads me to think that it might not prove to be that useful in most battles as even if I recieve the bonus I might not even be able to use it due to the map not being big enough or me not having a reason to change my location that much. But would probably be useful in big areas with many enemies like Balor's camp and might even be pretty spectacular against endless waves of natives.
To me, the use of mobility feats for a sniper is to run away from a miss, or reposition into cover, mainly in the 1st round of combat when you come out of stealth and lack movement points.
Sprint always works, even if you miss, and this is when you really need it. Hit and Run only works when you have killed an enemy, so its usefulness compared to sprint seems questionable.
Same if you need MPs to get into darkness for the Ambush feat, you need that MP before you fire your rifle, not after.
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To me, the use of mobility feats for a sniper is to run away from a miss, or reposition into cover, mainly in the 1st round of combat when you come out of stealth and lack movement points.
Sprint always works, even if you miss, and this is when you really need it. Hit and Run only works when you have killed an enemy, so its usefulness compared to sprint seems questionable.
Same if you need MPs to get into darkness for the Ambush feat, you need that MP before you fire your rifle, not after.
This was kinda my line of thinking too, but I assumed that once I'm out of stealth with a Snipe, it hopefully dropped an enemy. And there's still enough AP for at least an Aimed Shot. Back away, then start the next round with falling back again, shoot to kill so I can retreat even more if needed. Keeping the distance like this would make me excellent at kiting groups of enemies (taking down the Rat King might not even require traps like this).
Sprint is only 2 times 30 at best. Of course it's much more usable not being restricted to a condition, we can cast it the moment the need arise.
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About the only build I can think of that would benefit from hit and run is SMGs, since they do a lot of up-close killing with low AP attacks and can't benefit from fancy footwork
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I kinda thought that Hit and Run is just made for snipers above any other build, exactly bacause they do so much damage with each shot. It would allow you to keep your distance like nothing else. It's not even restricted to like, single use per turn. No crowd could ever keep up with you, not even with them using Sprint.
I mean let's say you have like an effective 30 MP. You run back that much, shoot someone for +25, retreat more, second shot result in another +25 MP you can move back, use Psycho-temporal Contraction for +30 MP, gain that much distance, then shoot your third shot thanks to it and recieve your third +25 MP. That's 135 MP in total. Without it, it would be 60. And it was only possible as each of your shot resulted in a kill, which is highly likely for snipers and they are exactly the kind that hit effectively even from so much distance. And that is not something that SMG's can do - despite them being able to attack much more than 3 times, Hit & Run doesn't really help them as they meant to remain close for bursts to be effective.
The only reasoning against it might be the fact that most area simply not feature that long corridors for you to run along on, so that severely limits it's use - excluding places where you can circle around a block of a building or room. But if you fight several melee enemies, like when a pack of 5-6 all rushes at you, then this would allow you to use all of your AP for attacks as you would still generate more than enough MP (as long as you score some kills) to retreat at least as much as they advance, even as they use up their MP + AP (+Sprint) combined. Even to keep yourself out of reach from ranged enemies with other weapons, since those have less range than sniper rifles.
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I guess I didn't read your 2nd-to-last post; that makes total sense.
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Yeah, it's nice, I mean Sprint is limited to a total of 60 MP that you can only make use of in 2 portions of 30 for 1-1 rounds and that's it. Maintaining distance is important as sniper rifle's have to have a certain range in order to not loose precision.
Another thing, is getting Evasion such a bad idea on Dominating? I mean maxing it will provide you 50% blast resistance, that's yours without any armor penalty. Otherwise in case you might plan to add blast cloth, you would loose about +40 stealth from not having black cloth and the resulting armor penalty would decrease your stealth even further together with your MP. But, your blast resistance would not only be 50 but easily 75%.
However, not having maxed Evasion leaves us with a good amount of skillpoints to spend, so we can really-REALLY optimize the sh*t out of our build. For a proper comparison, please refer to the chart below.
(https://imgur.com/XMJeL6A.png)
There are 2 skill columns next to each other posing the question of either having maxed Evasion or none but instead be a jack of all trades that's also a total master of all with skillpoints raised to the now max thresholds in...
Hacking: 130 without tools, equipping the Engi-suit and taking Hypercerebrix with Underpie (can we use both at the same time?)
Lockpick: 130 with Eel Sandwitch, Engi-suit and Huxkey
Pickpocket: 140 to steal everything movable in the game
Chemistry: 112 for mk V mines & grenades
Mercantile: 105 with Hypercerebrix
Persuasion: 110 with JKK Jacket
...however, an enemy grenade could prove to be fatal.
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Yeah, it's nice, I mean Sprint is limited to a total of 60 MP that you can only make use of in 2 portions of 30 for 1-1 rounds and that's it.
Hacking: 130 without tools, equipping the Engi-suit and taking Hypercerebrix with Underpie (can we use both at the same time?)
Between Infused Cave Hopper Leather tabis and Limited Temporal Increment, you can keep Sprint up on turns 1,2,4, and 5 of combat. Most combats should be done by then. I do find Sprint to be extremely potent if you make the footwear for it.
Yes, you can stack Hypercerebrix and UnderPie
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In order to cast Increment twice while I plan on casting Temporal Contraction, then I have to burn a psi hypo. Which is not that high price to pay every now and then I guess. I think I'll just wait and see when I get a rifle and check which works best for me. Starting a turn with 0 MP because got restealthed for another Snipe means +25 after using the ability and that sounds nice.
However Sprint can function as a kind of bridge-ability between two Temporal Contractions to maintain the +30 MP bonus.
So casting Contraction with the Acceleration feat prolonging it's effect, a constant +30 MP can be upheld with activation of Sprint from the 4th turn, then another Contraction if one has the Future Orientation feat (although just barely with 10 regen) meaning +30 MP for 8 tuns at least. That can be extended to 10 wearing those Infused Hopper Tabis. If we still need the cycle to continue, a use of a psy Hypo is needed.
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Actually, if someone gets the Premediation and Future Orientation feat together with the Acceleration and by using Increment, can have the Contraction buff up 6 out of 8 turns (9 out of 12 with regen of 11 - although one can always use a psi booster).
I never considered the Infused Cave Hopper Leather Tabis, but I really lean towards it now as considerably reducing the cooldown of a feat makes it really stand out of it's kind. What is the highest quality Cave Hopper skin, can it also reach around a 100? Wiki is not really precise on this. And where to find it? Even at higher levels (with my abandoned save), I only find ones that are really low. I doubt that it's just the quality of super steel that matters.
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What is the highest quality Cave Hopper skin, can it also reach around a 100?
No, it can't go that high. The highest quality skin you'll find is around 60ish, and it's not a drop from a creature you kill but rather a static object. Look for the Hopper Graveyard and when you find it, look closely at all the skeletons.
To figure out your end quality, you'll want to read this page: https://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Blueprint:_Infused_Leather
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Hopper leather can go up to 64, and if you're lucky you can find two high quality leathers at that spot, but though the quality is high it is random. I usually get one in the 50s. If you infuse it the total quality can be over a hundred.
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Allright, I'm now ready to start the game for real. For about level 20, the plan is rock solid. By that, I mean I know what I'm doing and why. But somehere around that part, a question that I was evading all this time really starts to burn on me. While still keeping our attention to boost critical damage, we have to make a decision between focusing on critical chance, or special attack damage. For unfortunately we CAN'T have both.
Crit chance with your Spearhead and your base amount will give you 18%. So that's a given. We can boost this for another 14% with Recklessness and Scrutinous. Could gain a significant increase with high quality (150) Seeker lens, for about 18%. Now we reached 50%. That's kinda decent. But is it enough? THAT is what I just can't really tell and surely hope that some of the nice people here can shed some light on this matter, or even just share some of their experience with what they had.
Because if it's not enough, we can still push forward in this direction but from now on, every increase would involve severe costs and this is when uncertainity comes in. So from now on, everything will come at a much higher price. I mean while crafting our rifle, instead of the Anatomically-Aware Scope for the huge boost in damage, you can put a High Resolution scope for +10% chance, we can wear an Infused Rathound Leather Armor for an additional 10-15%. That's now a very reassuring 70-75% and if you use a focus stim you'll be near 90%!!!
But this comes in exchange for not wearing some proper armor with significantly better defense. Tygrende here posted an armor that boasts really good damage resistance, boosts HP with around 130 and combining that with Pig or Bison Tabi with for who knows how much HP sounds great. That's a lot to live without, you can basically double your own HP if you're having 3 CON on Dominating. The price here is 2 feat slots and without exaggeration, fully letting go of having passive defense outside of shield emitters. Is going full-glass validate a Sniper build that have a crit chance bonus worth that much? I mean you have to understand that it's not about loosing 2 feat slots, a good portion of your crit damage and your full defense for that 35%, it's about possibly not having crits when you need it and having kinda random crits when you might not expect it, OR reaching a state where you'll score crits with somewhat less damage, but with a chance you can rely on. A chance you can actually COUNT on. It's worth to mention that Blindsiding can actually be a useful feat here, since it will boost the otherwise lower damage due to not having the AA scope.
High crit chance would certainly help replenish Aimed Shot easier, but then again would you even need that at this point? Would this approach render all your special attacks useless?
Now if you focus on special attacks though, you don't have any reason to waste 2 feat slots for a mere 14% chance, could take up Ambush to somewhat counter that - very VERY situational, but at least under proper conditions it works. Could get around 75% chance with Ambush, basically the same which the other build has constantly regardless of enemies being in the spotlight or not... Anycase, another feat slot opens up and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone when I say I can name at least 2 that I would happily fit in it's place. So it sounds reasonable to abandon crit chance if one's not completely focused on it. Wearing Smart lensed goggles, you can add another 40% to your damage with special attacks, make both your special attacks all the more devastating. So with this approach, you're end up having Ambush and at least one free feat of your choosing ( for example the third Initiation raising feat, boosting you to 38-40), an armor with defense. However you'll only have 2 devastating attacks. Aimed Shot that you'll use once each turn if you're lucky and Snipe even less, with the stealth condition and the reuse time not being decreasable as with Aimed Shot, and the ability used mostly once each battle. However Snipe will deal 40% more damage and Aimed Shot will do even more with the AA scope. Blindsiding is unnecessary here.
But do you need all that damage at this point? Or is it overkill and with crappy normal damage, you'll actually be slower?
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Now we reached 50%. That's kinda decent. But is it enough? THAT is what I just can't really tell
For snipers, no. The thing with sniper rifles is that you don't fire a whole lot of shots, so you need as much determinism as possible. A sniper rifle shot is a big investment, so you really don't want it to be an even coin flip. Sure, it doesn't matter for easy fights but you don't need to worry about much for easy fights, right?
For ARs, SMGs, and arguably shotguns, yes. You fire so many rounds per turn that you're in the mathematical average almost every turn so 50% is enough that you can just sort of curve your damage expectations and you'll generally be pretty close as long as you know how to stddev.
A good stash of drugs can make all the difference, though. If you want to get your crit chance up by wearing armor that improves your offense, you can balance that more or less by using Morphine, Aegis, and/or whatever else you need for the fight at hand. Focus Stim will always be very useful; Bullhead may well save you a time or two, as well. And the higher the game difficulty, the more you'll cherish whatever doses of Super Health Hypo and Regenerative Mixture you can get your hands on.
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That's what I thought. Middle ground is 50%. With both crit chance feats, AA scope, but Seeker lens, wearing defensive armor. AA scope gives much better damage that what Smart goggles provide, although it's only for regular crits while Smart goggles provide boost for Aimed shot and Snipe too. I can't help but feel that the middle ground is simply a choice that is unmade and avoided - thus not really providing real benefit from either way.
But the thing is, you cannot just make a difference with drugs, you have to fully commint to one side with equipment and feats. What scope you use? What armor you wear? Do you take Reckless + Scrutinous or leave them completely? If you take them, you're ought to sacrifice defense too if you would want to give those feats any meaning, because on their own, they simply won't make a difference. One cannot judge these individually, I get the feeling that they have to be considered as a whole.
Another important thing to consider is that in case of snipers, crit chance really only affects normal shots. It involves a HUGE commitment and NONE of the special attacks benefit from boosting it. So essentially you'll end up with having a great way of attacking and stuck with some other way, that end up loosing it's use. Either have normal hits with damage that's near special attacks, so them and all their feats end up being obsolete, or special attacks that are fewer but better then ever, paired with crappy normal attacks.
Okay, this led me to think that maybe the middle ground is not that bad. I mean you still have your special attacks, but with a crit chance that's not the worst. Also cooldown reduction feats and spells will hold their importance. Allright, I guess I kinda answered my own question:) I'll see how it goes. I'm leaning for defense, but if by the time I get access to super steel I manage to develop a playstyle that I won't leave the enemy the choice to hit me that much to the point that I can manage with energy shields, I might go Rathound. Goggle-wise, I take Seeker to get at least that 50%. As for scope, I check how much damage I do and see if I really need that AA or not (see if Blindsiding can be squeezed in or not and can it make up for the loss in damage due to to not having an AA scope).
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The thing with sniper rifles is that you don't fire a whole lot of shots, so you need as much determinism as possible.
Agree with TheAverageGortsby, you want to know what your shots are doing.
I'd say Ambush is fine, you can get crit chance of 100%, and you will know exactly when it works, so that is something to count on.
Also, and this is purely personal preference, I'd try to get some more defense. Glass cannon is a fun gimmick, but that reload screen is something I loathe in RPGs. There will always be situations where you screw up your timing, or are unlucky, so things go south. More HPs, more initiative, drugs etc will help you then.
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Usually I'm quick on deciding things, learned when to rely on intuition, also an Aries (not like I believe in any of that), but for some reason when it comes to RPG's, I really tend to overthink character creations. But I arrived at a point where I finally came to a halt in the form of still thinking on what should be changed, but now always end up coming back to a certain build realizing that it cannot get more suitable for my appeal - thus became a seemingly final landmark in the planning process which I turn back to regardless of how many time I set out to leave it behind.
(https://imgur.com/rPeXoMu.png)
As you can see, there's more focus on psi this time, mainly to keep Contraction rolling every 4th turn. Make the best of that 72 AP for 3 rounds and use the 4th turn with 50 AP (last before it's cooldown ends) for miscellanious things - cast Increment before everything else, then something out of another rifle shot, Kneecap Shot, grenade, trap, reload, restealth etc. Then proceed to do it all over again if there are still anybody left.
So. Again. Just to illustrate what this build is tailored to accomplish:
With our 3 psi-oriented feats and 11 psi regen, by turn 9 we cast our 3rd Contraction in a row - blessed by it's effect for 9 out of 11 turns without even using a psi booster. This will allow us to completely empty the magazine of our Spearhead by round 4 and still have 26 AP left. Cast Increment, reload, restealth and repeat. This means that by the end of turn 11 we were able to shoot our rifle 29 (!) times. No native should be left standing by then.
As for defense, I'll just go with Infused Pig armor and Pig/Bison tabi as Tygrende suggested earlier. Being able to boost my HP from 200 to 400 is just too good to pass up and would make my otherwise fragile character more durable. Social skills are covered too, 105 Mercantile with Hypercerebrix and 110 Persuasion with Hypno Goggles.
I mean you can still play around with this, drop WILL (and the Hypno Goggles) for +2 CON, or +1 DEX +1 AGI (and use Rapid .44 Hammerers for 20AP!). Meddle with the skills to still meet the social tresholds by other means - mostly at the cost of decreasing Throwing from 100 to 80 and TM from 70 to 60 loosing Stasis (no big deal). But what you see above is the main idea.
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This may just be the absurd min/maxer in me, but since you've already got tailoring and mechanics I don't see why you wouldn't make a set of infused pig leather boots - even just the cheapest crappiest ones possible - for the +30 carry and bring a set of Heartbreaker boots when you go down the elevator. You're presumably bringing a Tactful Jacket since you're planning on Hypno Goggles, so there's +55 effective Persuasion. Since in the early game you never need more than 45 effective, you can get your early threshold easily and then pretty much save the rest of your points. You're gonna be lugging a bunch of crap into the DC anyway; I'd rather have more Bio so I can get better drugs.
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This may just be the absurd min/maxer in me, but since you've already got tailoring and mechanics I don't see why you wouldn't make a set of infused pig leather boots - even just the cheapest crappiest ones possible - for the +30 carry and bring a set of Heartbreaker boots when you go down the elevator. You're presumably bringing a Tactful Jacket since you're planning on Hypno Goggles, so there's +55 effective Persuasion. Since in the early game you never need more than 45 effective, you can get your early threshold easily and then pretty much save the rest of your points. You're gonna be lugging a bunch of crap into the DC anyway; I'd rather have more Bio so I can get better drugs.
Reasonable. Absurd min/maxer attitude is what makes the world move forward (at least when it's not about capitalism). There's the Lifting Belt too to increase carry capacity further. I like the 80 Persuasion it covers most checks. Those goggles are excellent, very underrated. Lightweight with a really strong bonus. Just by that, I could keep most of my equipment constantly on me and would need to carry only that. Putting it on is the equivalent of putting on a thinking cap. Look ridiculous and used only against hard nuts. And the thing is, after I attained what I described above by inviting a heavier psi influence, I spent my time with mostly cosmetic changes. 100 Throwing is too much, 70-80 is already good enough, but the zeroes are pleasing to the eye:) While with reducing Throwing to 80, one could have 135 in Electronics for top tier Plasma explosives without INT buff and 107 in Hacking enabling us to to restore IRIS.
But you have a valid point. However honestly, I don't know much about the drugs I can make above 50 Biology. And some ingredients seem like real rarities to me and I admit I never did any fishing in this game so far and don't even know how to... I just know that I will absolutely need Hypercerebrix, that being integrated to my build to reach 135 Electronics without bench for top tier plasma explosives and 105 Mercantile. So I stopped on 80 Biology for that and Bullheads. Latter seemed useful too with no particularly special ingredients. What is beyond that is unknown to me. Can those drugs be beneficial to a sniper to validate the investment?
One can play around this build still, lower Throwing or even Persuasion if needed with the mentioned boosting items in mind.
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I stopped on 80 Biology for that and Bullheads. Latter seemed useful too with no particularly special ingredients. What is beyond that is unknown to me. Can those drugs be beneficial to a sniper to validate the investment?
Well, Super Soldier Drug is amazing, but that requires you get to 130 effective. 100 will get you Super Health Hypos, which are quite nice, and 115 will get you Regenerative Mixture, which (it's been a while, so if it changed I apologize) I believe is not on the same cooldown timer as your health hypos, which is a big deal on DOMINATING with the lengthy cooldowns and reduced healing. Since you only rarely craft, I find it helpful to assume at least Hypercerebrix (I'd always carry a few doses into DC with me if I had Biology) so you could even pull 10 (12 if you also assume Under Pie) points back out of Biology and still buff up to 130 for crafting on the move, outside of the housing bonus. If you go to 78 real points, that's 115 effective meaning you only need to Hypercerebrix up to craft Super Soldier.
Still, you should be able to get two doses of Super Soldier Drug, and a couple Super Health Hypos, as drops or purchaseables. If you want to stop at 80 effective, you do get most of the benefit of Biology.
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Supersoldier is a little meh, I can't see it being that beneficial. I mean an Adrenaline or a Focus Stim seems more useful. Regenerative Mixture on the other hand seems really nice though as according to the wiki, it can be used together with health hypos and that sounds ridiculous. I can tailor my build to have an effective 115 with both the 5 WILL and the 8 DEX+AGI version while keeping the social threasholds attainable.
The only thing keeping me away from considering this skill is the hunt for ingredients. How hard is to collect the items necessary for a Regenerative Mixture or a Hypercerebrix? Are they easy to gather?
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The only thing keeping me away from considering this skill is the hunt for ingredients. How hard is to collect the items necessary for a Regenerative Mixture or a Hypercerebrix? Are they easy to gather?
Hypercerebrix is super easy. It's just mushroom juice. Cave Ear mushrooms, Red Dream mushrooms, and Glitterspore mushrooms. Throw 'em in a juicer. Bam! Smrt.
Regen mixture is a good deal rarer. Aside from the Walking Fish and the blood, you're mostly going to have to get the ingredients in DC. But given that you probably aren't going to get the blueprint until you get to Hollow Earth, that's less terrible than it could be.
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Upon checking some other builds online I do not see two great abilities mentioned - and even when they are, never really for the reasons they could be truly valuable for a sniper.
Quick Tinkering - For me, to employ of this ability outsie of combat even outweights it's use within. With instant traps, you can quickly sneak close to the enemy, drop a bear trap and dash back before their awareness meter turns orange. Setting up a trap that close the normal slow-ass way would be impossible, even with high stealth skill. Because of this, you can stop the enemy advance much earlier than placing traps further away from them in order to remain hidden - this will get you more physical distance between them, even in smaller areas. QT-denying the Black Clawler right as you drop by is also handy.
Interloper - Goes really well with QT making you able to perform the above mentioned tactic much easier. And while the movement speed is convenient, we can value it perhaps even more for it's MP bonus, something that I found to be underappreciated by others. Because the one thing this ability synergizes with perhaps even more than QT is Snipe. Shooting out of stealth while already in combat is not easy, due to the fact that it requires you to restealth at the end of your previous turn and remain hidden while the enemy attacks you. This might force you to restealth in cover as if you do that in the line of fire, you can get hit which takes you out of stealth. But if you do it behind a wall, moving out to shoot will cost you valuable AP which you could otherwise use to shoot again - making Snipe too expensive of a move. Because upon starting a turn while stealthed, you're without any MP. Even if Contraction is still on - if you begin your turn while hidden, you only get the AP bonus.
Interloper solves that by granting you 15 AP while being hidden, enough to move out of cover and allowing restealth to be much more accessible and a perfect move to end those speacial 4th turns I mentioned earlier. Especially since Snipe benefits from Smart lens and modules and are considered surekills, contributing Shooting Spree. Also reignites the bonus of Blindsiding all over again (if you somehow managed to squeeze that feat in to your build).
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Upon checking some other builds online I do not see two great abilities mentioned - and even when they are, never really for the reasons they could be truly valuable for a sniper.
Interloper - Goes really well
I goes not well - it goes deadly well. Interloper + 1sp point to sprint and 3sp points to blitz.
Dominating is easy. Personally, I want Super Dominating.
Now let me explain AP:
level 19
50 initially
20 adrenalin shot
20 blitz
22 from psi
= 112 = 28*4 = so 4 shots with 7.62 sniper riffle out of stealth. With Shooting Spree, Aimed shot and Limited Temporal Increment... this is 3 dead enemies.
Personally i even did not have Sharpshooter. Build is crazy even without it.
Lets go further and add Interloper 8):
level 23
50 initially
25 vitality Powder
26 blitz
22 from psi
= 123 = 41*3 = so 3 shots with 12 sniper out of stealth with +20% :D accuracy = 3 dead full hp heavy enemies LOL
As you can see, you can forget about bonus critical damage devices. You basically do burst with your sniper riffle.
Pistols or SMG or whatever - does not matter at all.
You can play for fun after 19/23 level. Dominating goes easy. Personally i even stopped taking sniper riffle as i want to play game with challenges.
And i use pistol just because it is very fun to cosplay 007
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And i use pistol just because it is very fun to cosplay 007
I have yet to play a build that would do it, but taking a smart silenced 5mm hawker:
>smart goggles
>infused rathound leather armor
>focus stim
>adrenaline/cocaine
>hardcore chips
>whichever of w2c or jhp that makes the most sense
>taser
>a net if this goes into round two
>opportunist
>blindsiding
>recklessness
>scrutinous
>execute
>aimed shot
>point shot
>rapid fire
>kneecap shot
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I have many problems with Blitz. First, I don't see it as a good ability for anybody else other than a high DEX, low AP per attack melee with Fancy Footwork. Yaaay you get to enjoy 20 AP for a single turn. And it costs you most of your MP, 10 Agility, and TWO feat slots. That's sounds foolish. Two feat slots, because you have to take Sprint with it to be able to move two inch afterwards and if that's not the bane of a ranged character, then I don't know what is. Consider what other stats could you improve, what other feats you could take instead of those two, are you sure those would benefint you less that that 20 AP for a single round PER battle due to that huuuuuuge cooldown? Hell no.
The fundamental thing I absolutely wanted my build to have for it's own is consistency. High dps, but not once in a lifetime all blitzed and drugged up, but as long as I want, for free, granted only by my self owned abilities. X dps that I can reliably maintain on my own, not X+Y that I can attain for a moment, then suffer the after-effects. The effectiveness granted here doesn't even cost a psi booster until the 16th round, but no battle should last our onslaught for that long (10 psi regen is okay too with at least level 1 Philosophy). The consistency is based on kicking ass 3 rounds straight, then on the 4th performing some other action in order to continue having the luxury of doing nothing but attacks until we empty our next mag. And to be able to empty it by the time we recover our cooldowns that are reduced as much as possible.
So we shoot the 10th and last bullet in our rifle (or Kneecap Shot / Trap / Grenade), then reload our weapon (4 AP with Bullet Strap belt), reduce the cooldown (10 AP with Future Oriented Increment), restealth to use Snipe + enable Blindsiding next round and repeat the cycle. I don't see a non-craftable Vitality Powder with it's one time 2 round effect and it's crippling fatigue afterwards as something that I can fit anywhere here.
Drugs are something I cannot implement in my build because those are not part of the character. Combat drugs are situational. Of course we can use them occasionally, but I don't think they should be part of the daily grind of a build that is properly made. And they benefit every character the same, so there's no point in saying one is better because they pop an Adrenaline, the other can do that too. That's like saying that mine has more HP because I use a health hypo.
Silenced 5mm Hawker? Silenced pistol has to be a NeoLuger:)
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Silenced 5mm Hawker? Silenced pistol has to be a NeoLuger:)
Well we're hoping for crits you see.
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I have many problems with Blitz. First, I don't see it as a good ability for anybody else other than a high DEX
This is typical mistake that people want Blitz with high Dex. As well as it was my mistake before.
Agility build is complete different from Dex build.
I know. Dex builds are so popular in this game. People want to put "DEX" everywhere.
Look at this build
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?HAUGDQMIAwjClh4AAAAAeD09YCFfajpQXwAAAEZNAEQrASQ5Fk83R8KHSX5ZHcKFU8KlwqbipYoB4qeXA-KnqgPisZYE378
(i pre-build only 28 levels.. no use to calculate 30 levels)
The main idea is to obtain as many AP & MP as possible.
8) :D 8)
As a result - the game changes completely. New tactics, new strategies, new...
Give a try. Forget about high DEX and you might be surprised in a good way how game begin shining by new colours ;)
Example we use aforementioned build with SMG and sniper riffle:
AP (50 + 25/20 + 26 + 22 + 10 + 9) = 142/137 AP during 1st round and 116/111 during next rounds with crazy amount of MP //
Personally, i hardly remember fights that last more than 2-3 turns... dominating during dominating game difficulty
Going back to the pistol topic as sidearm. YOU DO NOT NEED high Dex. As you have Point Shot -75%/-95% AP cost. It makes no sense to decrease AP cost of .44 from 8AP to 6 AP.
Fair enough?
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I know I don't need high DEX, it's just that with it you can at least eliminate the 60 MP requirement if you're using the kind of melee that is influenced by DEX (knives, knuckles), but even then it's value is debatable. High calibers not benefitting from DEX is also something I already mentioned here and in some other thread too. But I don't need Blitz. It's not that bad of an ability, I like that it's an AP buff that doesn't involve psi. But it's just a one-time buff due to it's long cooldown and to alter a build that is not revolving around AGI, just for the sake of it having this +20 AP in a single turn is not a good example of how priorities should be. One even takes Sprint solely to throw away the MP. Convert all those stats, feats, activations so that in the end, you can have ONE additioal shot every TENTH round... Wow.
The MP condition is what a high DEX knifer or hand-to-hand combatant doesn't mind much because with Fancy Footwork, they can just get free MP with each hit, replenishing that 60 HP easily with a mere 8 attacks. I also planned a knifer once just to play with the idea, even then I dropped Improved Sprint. To me, that seems much better than Blitz due to the lower cooldown with the Infused Cave Hopper tabis, lasting for two rounds and the fact that it doesn't take away MP but provides instead. Still the abnormal stat requirement is just too big of an investment to make it worthwile. Spending at least FIVE more stat points than what we need solely for this one ability is a bad idea no matter how I want to make it work. And it also takes two feat slots, the second just gives 10 AP to it. 10 AP and it requires you to have 13 AGI. A stat, that even my build without Interloper would only need 5 (although I always set it to 7 or 8, same with DEX). It's not like AGI influences any skill we use on Dominating aside from Stealth and we're already good on Initiative and MP to the point that even Sprint is a waste. Leaving these out allows me to spend stats and take up the feats that relates and benefits a ranged character much better.
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Especially on DOMINATING, which throws really big swarms of enemies at you. Smart A-A spearhead can easily 1-shot almost everything in the game, with the exception of only a few boss enemies on DOMINATING, so you will be essentialy cutting the amount of enemies killed each turn in half. And there will be a lot of them on DOMINATING. Really, a lot.
*This* is actually why I prefer a SMG or Shotgun as the sidearm; when 10 Burrower spawns show up the sniper rifle with it's multi-thousand damage aimed shot is worthless, but a single burst can kill 3+.
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Especially on DOMINATING, which throws really big swarms of enemies at you. Smart A-A spearhead can easily 1-shot almost everything in the game, with the exception of only a few boss enemies on DOMINATING, so you will be essentialy cutting the amount of enemies killed each turn in half. And there will be a lot of them on DOMINATING. Really, a lot.
*This* is actually why I prefer a SMG or Shotgun as the sidearm; when 10 Burrower spawns show up the sniper rifle with it's multi-thousand damage aimed shot is worthless, but a single burst can kill 3+.
The build discussed here is not wielding only a sniper rifle, having a pistol of the same 7.62mm caliber cost 12 AP even with the minimum 7 DEX and can one-shot 6 of these these critters per turn, no problem. No wonder you brought up Burrower spawns, they are the perfect, ideal enemies for SMG builds. Low HP small fries in packs. But they were never a threat anyway, even at early game. I mean their damage can be resisted by the DT of even some decent tac vest.
This build can shoot 10-11 times within 4 turn and each bullet takes a life regardless if it's a spawn or a full grown Burrower. That's the beauty of this rifle. Once it finds a target, it doesn't wound it - it takes care of it. With the first draw, so it won't cost you another attack to finish the enemy. There's no unreliable spray and pray here where you don't even shoot at the enemy, you merely shoot in the direction of it. And against single targets, that's not the best way to go, especially when they are tanky. With the rifle, it's another pull of the trigger and another mob to forget. Each action delivers results. Something you can count and therefore plan with.
Then there's the often underrated advantage of attacking from a safe distance. The luxury of outranging even the guns of the enemy, safe oppurtunities to restealth and allowing better use of covers - instead of the close range requirement of a burst, which often involves to be hurt by anything you leave standing.