Messages

31

Development Log / Re: Dev Log #67: Version 1.1.2.0 - Waterways and Psi Update

« on: July 22, 2020, 11:10:08 am »

Psi nerfs I can agree with to a certain extent. I think that Force Field should be nerfed even more, by only casting a sinlge tile under base conditions and you should get additional ones depending on your Psychokinesis skill.
Crit Power nerf is also something I can live with.

However, I'm really devastated by the nerfs my temporal sniper build have to suffer. It was so perfect. If I interpret the changes correctly, then Rapid Reloader doesn't lower the AP cost at all, it only has a small 25% chance to provide aditional AP from time to time, and even then the bonus will be a random amount between 16 and 20 (with a Spearhead). This makes it completely unreliable and brings more RNG - something my build efficently ruled out in favor of maximum efficency. Now I cannot count ahead with my AP and also even if I receive the bonus, thanks to the Spearhead nerf, I can't shoot 3 times even with max bonus from RR and Temporal Contraction.
The main point in making hybrids was to utilize the synergies between different abilities - that part was the main reason I though so highly about this game's design. Now that's gone. Especially with what happened to the Temporal school. Now there's no synergy anymore, just skills on their own. I can't help but feel that this update is from some bootleg alpha stage.

Regarding Temporal Contraction... that nerf is the death sentence for my build. It's made around using that spell with the fully specialized Acceleration feat, so being buffed every 4th round for a whooping 72 AP 3 out of 4 turns. I honestly thought that with Expedition, this spell being used with the Rapid Spearhead's AP cost of 24 is intentional by the devs promoting psi hybrid snipers. It's not unintentional fortunate circumstances, they acutally thought it out like this. My build is tailored to use this ability not once per battle, but for at least 3 times, enjoying it's effects for 9 turns out of 11. It is why I have increased Will and Intelligence too and took up 3 psi feats. This nerf brokes that to pieces as if you use it once, you better finish the battle within 3 turns (if you wasted a feat slot for Acceleration) because if any enemy is still left standing afterwards, you'll be helpless and die.
This makes Contraction to be used when the fight is nearing it's end. When it'll be completely pointless. The point of this spell is to use it FIRST ROUND when there's many enemies to clear, so you can take as much down as possible before they'll be able to really utilize their advantage in numbers. So after it wears off, you'll be left with less, making it easier to deal with your base AP. Now the fear of it backfiring on you will make most people use it when they can estimate the fight's end within 3 rounds, meaning they already dealt with the enemy's main force. This makes Temporal Contraction utterly useless against crowds - the occasion when you need it the most.

I only used Increment and Contraction (not even force field as it seemed broken and basically cheating in it's former state), so I'm fine with the spell slot restriction too. This update was meant to favor psi hbrids as they have more divided stats and skills compared to pure psi users. But with nerfing Contraction like this, there won't be any point in making psi hybrid builds, I just go pure firearm. Definetly doesn't worth to use Temporal (let alone tailor my build around it) and loose 25%HP for psi empathy, waste all that stat points, all those skill points and 3 feats slots to have a broken build that's specialty is self-pwning when you can invest all that and go pure firearm user and specialize in it completely without suffering the compromises you made for being hybrid.
The Temporal nerf doesn't propagates hybrids, it makes them impossible to use. It benefits complete psi-less builds, thus resulting in the exact opposite of what it hoped to accomplish.

I just hope that update won't be forced on everyone, the devs should leave it to the players which version they want to play depending on if they would like to play hybrids (then go for the previous version) or pure psi users / psi-less builds (go with the new update).

32

Builds / Re: First time Dominating build. Looking for suggestions/improvements.

« on: July 18, 2020, 05:33:09 pm »

You'll be fine with 100 or somewhat more traps as it allows you to defuse all of the hostile ones and still be effective on deploying them yourself. As for pistols, if you plan on using them not just for their utility, but as your main form of attack it has to be a Rapid Smart .44 Hammerer. Quite hectic damage range, but still outclassing everything else in the long run. Since it has a high AP cost, you'll not benefit from having high DEX. 8 is enough in my opinion as with Gunslinger and the Rapid mod, each regular shot will take 20 AP. So with 50 AP in total you can shoot once and perform Rapid Fire (or 70-72 with temporal psi: 2 shots + RF). Any more DEX won't really benefit you here. And you want to use Rapid Fire as it's great with the Hammerer, especially with high crit chance and damage. Generally all skillshots are best with that smart modded pistol due to it's high damage output which increases Kneecap Shot's bleed amount too (you want to take this skill early btw regardless of the handgun you're using).



As a sidenote since you also tackle the route of a sniper, to help broaden your view a bit, let me post my build which I'm currently using for my Dominating run. Despite the fact that firearm pistols are my favourite weapons in this game overall, here they are only used for utility though (for increasing initiative and to perform Kneecap Shots from some Rapid Neo Luger or Falchion LS). This is an extremely versatile temporal sniper build:
https://underrail.info/build/?HgUHBwMLBQjCoEAAAAAAwqBJRFBEWmVQM1oAAABGPwA-KygXAR4wHX81fksqwofCiDHCpMK1M9-_

By versatility I mean that this allows you to nail challenges in every area. With Hypercerebrix, you can reach 105 Mercantile to get increase inventory from all vendors, reach 110 Persuasion with the Hypno Glasses, ace all subterfuge-related activity (130 Hacking with Hypercerebrix and Engi-suit), also craft everything you need anywhere anytime (proper gear, chems up to bullheads and max tier in all kind of grenades and traps). Changing Recklessness and Scrutinous for Blindsiding and Ambush is something I've yet to decide as Ambush can cover for crit chance while I often restealth when battling against crowds as much as I can so I would make good use of Blindsiding as well. But all other feats are set in stone (Interloper and Strafe too for cornerfights).
With the temoral focused feats and good psi regeneration, you can enjoy 72 AP for 3 turns with Contraction (which translates to 3 sniper shots from a Rapid Spearhead). In the 4th turn where you're back with 50 AP, use 25 of that for something out of grenade/trap/kneecap/dilation (or to shoot the last bullet in your rifle), just spare the other 25 AP to get yourself back to a state where you'll be able to repeat this all over again by casting Increment (10 AP), reload your rile (5 AP with bullet strap belt) and restealth (10 AP) behind cover.

33

General / Re: Protectorate vs Free Drones from RP perspective? (Spoilers)

« on: July 11, 2020, 04:00:25 pm »

Did anyone even talk about the task of "taking the land"? Underrail is full of unclaimed land. The task was to destroy Free Drones by any means with minimal losses. And it was done.

Geez, do you really believe that anyone thought that the Protectorate was literally after the land which houses the base of the FD? They want to take over the south. With all the harbours, cities, mines and infrastructure. Those already belong to the people who occupy it, it's not no man's land. FD stood in their path of conquest, just like some indian tribe defending their land. And you say they have to be dealth with "by any means NECASSARY"? How was gassing and making mutants out of them really necessary? You're sure there was no other way?

Should I remind you of the nuclear present for Hiroshima and Nagasaki in real history? Does it make America "evil"?
From my point of view, somehow not. It is normal for a country, any country, to do anything to protect the interests of itself and its citizens. Of course, such actions cannot be considered acceptable in our time. But then they simply corresponded to the cruelty of the era. And the current era of Underrail is no less cruel. Sad but true.

So dropping the A-bomb is not evil according to you. Even using it against soldiers is completely against the rules of engagement, here they dropped it on cities populated by innocent people having nothing to do with the war, just happen to born and live there. How can you say it's not evil? How can you say that that was any way justified? Was it really to protect the citizens of America? Who are actually on the other side of the ocean and the planet, not under any kind of threat? Did the people of Hiroshima or Nagasaki posed any danger to any citizen in the US? This kind of genocide that plagued the land for generations after stood out and were on par with the most gruesome acts of WWII including what the nazis did in their camps. And those were not corresponded to the cruelty of the era either. It was the utmost evil thing in human history.
And did FD endangered Protectorate territory, did they went against the people of the north? No. So who does the self-defense here? The Protectorate did the incursion, they were the threat to the south, no harmful action was justified from their side against people who were simply defending their space and especially not bio terrorism.

There is no "foreign territory" outside the boundaries of cities in South Underrail. It does not belong to anyone, and this is the whole problem. No one cares about raiders until they are so impudent that they raid settlements. No one controls the number of mutants.
If the cities of southern Underrail had come to an agreement and established some kind of ranger structure, at least half of the need for the Protectorate would have disappeared. Or maybe there would be no need for it at all.
Politics at any time is shit, but the politics of people with a medieval mentality and weapons of mass destruction is a huge deep shitty swamp.

Wrong again. South belong to the people who are already in there. Protectorate came from the north, it's irrational to say that they have the same right to another land than the people who are already living there. Also, please do not call FD raiders, they did not raid any settlement. South don't need any help from the outside. Never did. Why does Protectorate think that if no one establish a structure that appeals them then THEY HAVE to do it? Nobody ever asked their help, they even faced resistance. Isn't that a clear sign of "no thanks"? Anything after this is them forcing their way and thus qualifies as oppression. I don't know where you're from or what education you have, but politics are not necessarily dirty and foul play is not part of the trade. It never should be and Protectorate has no place to even engage in ANY kind politics outside their OWN country, let alone dirty politics.

Nobody ever said that the Protectorate is a charitable organization, but for some reason you think that they must act as one in order to be acceptable. This is somehow naive. Everyone in Underrail is pursuing their own gain and no one is hiding it. Yes, a Protectorate can be literally tyrannical. But the price of independence is known (see above), and my character is ready for almost anything to stop paying it.

Charity organisation? On the turf of other people, the Protectorate should be either that, or nothing. They don't have anything to do over there in the first place. Be tyrannical on your own place, don't trouble others. They have no justification to act any other way in a land where they can only be guests at best. And if it's indipendence, then no price is high enough. Even if some people are acting poorly and abuse this freedom, taking away independence (or self willingly going to slavery) is not the way to deal with it. That's like threating them as children. And also being lazy, as it cleary shows that you don't want to work on the problem. A region should develop their people, educate them, make them more mature in mind and if there are some idiots (there are always some in every group), society should just deal with them individually. Never by penalizing a whole nation that are doing just fine, carving down the benefits of their civilization that they accuired through slow and hard work. That's a damage way more immense than what any raider can do.

34

General / Re: XP for quests in Oddity

« on: June 18, 2020, 06:11:07 am »

You have a chance of spawning the 2-headed mutant in Depot A north every 30 minutes.  The last time I saw him, he came out of that small shack on the north side with the cloth door.  I don't know if he can be encountered twice, however.

I plan to go back ome other time, maybe to collect some free mines I did not recovered while I'm there. Problem is, first time I focused on sneaking past every enemy, so even if I saw this poor abomination, I probably just left it behind. Really hope that's not the case.
Although I had the impression of random events only occuring when you visit an area for the very first time, at least that's how it was for me.

Getting 30 before DC is quite a feat though, and depending on your build/faction choices it might be impossible. Siding with the protectorate will make you miss 2 oddity points (one of the Protectorate Can) and not siding with JKK is very likely to make you miss 1 oddity point (one of the Train Logs). Not having stealth will make it impossible (or at least extremely hard) to get both the Sword Handle and the Tri-Monitor Blueprint, unless you're willing to antagonize core city factions. Not having pickpocket will probably cost you some oddities too. And of course, non optimal quest resolution costs xp.

That's good to know, was planning to side with JKK anyway (for their goggles), but it really made me to check those oddities in the wiki and plan ahead. Thanks for the info, both of you. Still, since I plan to do a run where I'm collecting all oddities (at least attempt to) and while only being at the beginning of the game, I might consider exporting my character, start anew and savescum that mutant. My oddities carrie over, and if the xp I got from quests too up until this point... well, then I might just reach level 30 before DC after all
Now to decide what items I'll be carrying with me - only the bare necessities. Perhaps that tabi to walk faster in order to quickly get back to where I left off. Maaaaaybe the tac-vest and that newly made RR Falchion LS too.

35

General / Re: XP for quests in Oddity

« on: June 17, 2020, 06:20:37 pm »

The problem is there's already too much oddity exp in the game.  Unless I missed some, you can get at least 89 oddity exp PAST lvl 30, and you can be lvl 30 before you set foot in the endgame area. 

The gangwar gives you TONS of loot, it gives you Blaine, and it affects the ending slides.  It can give you a shield emitter if you're lucky.

That's reassuring. It should be ideal to reach level 30 by entering DC for those who stole and looted all oddities possible.
One question, for those oddities that are only accuirable through a random event (like the very rare two-headed mutant in Depot-A), is it possible to get them even later if returning to the location? Or if we did not encountered them or passed them by, they're lost forever?

36

Bugs / Re: Spearhead's hidden move and shoot penalty

« on: June 16, 2020, 06:27:48 am »

Wow. Allright... I mean it's kind of reasonable if I think about it. One needs to be focused to look through a scope.
Thanks, that clarifies it.

37

Bugs / Re: Spearhead's hidden move and shoot penalty

« on: June 15, 2020, 11:44:42 pm »

What scope?

The regular one, giving 10% accuracy. Together with Commando this is a low-tech, quick and easy to use Spearhead, no fancy electronics yet, just aimed to be as precise as possible in all situations.

38

Bugs / Spearhead's hidden move and shoot penalty

« on: June 15, 2020, 10:11:53 pm »

So I have a Rapid Spearhead Commando and by hoovering the mouse over the weapon, it says "move & shoot penalty: 15%". However it is clearly 25% in effect for some reason.
Aim at a stationary target from a specific spot while being focused and you'll have X%. In order to measure our accuracy with the same distance, but while losing focus, we have to step away a bit, then back again to the same place. So we move away, then hit enter to initiate combat. Start our round by returning back to the same spot we checked our aim earlier, but by moving of course we'll loose our focused state. And somehow our accuracy is X-25% instead of X-15%.

39

General / XP for quests in Oddity

« on: June 15, 2020, 04:01:25 pm »

Ok, so I helped the Eels against the Scrappers. In order to accomplish that, I had to do the following SEPARATE quests, FOUR in total:

 - Find out where Blaine is hiding and get the info out of him
 - Plant the explosives in Depot-A tunnels
 - Convince SGS (or Protectorate) to lend a hand in the battle
 - Actually wipe out an entire map of the Scrappers base

all that for a SINGLE XP at the end.
One xp was the reward for all those above. I am level 9 and need about 20 to reach the next level. So that whole questline got me 1/20th ahead. The same as killing my first rathound for it's ear. Basically you can get 4 times that much from killing a few dogs and get their collars, there' a few at the Scrapper's base too.
This made me convinced that the Oddity's side needs some serious rework in relation to how much XP it provies after quests, especially knowing that a lot of stand alone quests doesn't even give any XP at all. At least provide 1 point for each segment for the above, but a single one for all that chain of quests kinda worries me, as one needs about 718 oddity xp to reach level 30.

I honestly thought that quests will be my main way to level in this mode, to get involved and do as much as I can, even dumpster diving for propaganda leaflets or half eaten food will come as secondary to that. It turns out that quests are so far behind, that even on Oddity you'll be much more ahead for killing critters like a mere hopper and such than accomplishing feats like playing a key role in a gang war or any other main questline that moves the whole story ahead.
The problem with this, is that players become demotivated to do quests, when in oddity that should be even more encouraged than in classic mode. One can think twice if he really wants to embark on some engrossing questline, when he can get the same xp for finding some junk on a shelf for zero effort.

I love this game and I still think that Oddity is better than not, but sometimes it can completely take away the feeling of accomplishment. You feel like you basically did all that for nothing and it barely made any difference other than wasting a lot of time, ammo and other resources and that's not how it should be in a game belonging to the RPG genre.

40

Bugs / Interloper feat without the MP bonus

« on: June 15, 2020, 06:40:09 am »

Exploring an area in stealth while having Interloper, you are free to initiate combat with Snipe for example. If you hit ENTER first, so switch to combat mode in advance before doing any attack, you get your 15 MP no problem.
But if you just hit Snipe without stopping time, the game of course only switches to combat mode as soon as you perform the shot. But this way you won't give you your 15 MP regardless if you're having Interloper or not.

41

Builds / Re: Noob questions: Building an "Inventor"/"Engineer"

« on: June 11, 2020, 06:44:20 am »

The way I imagine this guy is either a laser / chemical pistol wielder with focus on all kinds of grenades and traps from the improvised to the exotic and scientific. With all the necessary feats involved on using such weaponry. OR a crossbower with a good selection of different bolts, one for each situation. A  build where the enjoyment comes from carrying around a lot of throwable and deployable contraptions and projectiles - using them a lot and constantly crafting them from everything we find, regardless if it's gasoline, mushrooms or poison glands.
Also being a heavy user of self-mixed drugs to boost performance, always high on something with different effects.
Naturally all self crafted gear and mostly of the gimmicky kind: regeneration vest, some heavily pimped-up crossbow or energy pistol with night vision googles. Low and High frequency shield emitters and cloaking. Power Management feat is a must an of course siding with Coretech.
Not using psi at all. This guy is a mad doctor unbound by his vows, driven by curiousity, a talented McGyver and a man of science. Fascinated by psionics, but confident that knowledge is the true merit of a man.



Still, if your main goal is to live out this roleplay, then ARCANUM is the best game for you, there you can invent all kind of guns, pyrotechnics, steam engine powered spider robots and various tonics. Electricity deflecting top-hats and who knows what. It's a great game and while you can't go wrong with UnderRail, I had to mention Arcanum after reading your preferences.

42

General / Re: First Dominating Attempt - Salvage my run

« on: June 10, 2020, 06:18:34 am »

I don't see why anyone should take up a sniper rifle as a sidearm. It's either main form of attack or nothing. It's a waste without Shooting Spree, and with it makes you use it as your main weapon. Stealth is also too low and it cripples your Snipe. If you don't plan on raising Stealth, it's better to not derail that direction and drop the whole sniper-idea along with Blindsiding. With 3 AGI, it's probably for the better.

If you're looking for crits, just with a single additional point in PER, you could take the Scrutinous feat that will help you a lot.
Throwing is too much as it is. Keep it, but take Three-Pointer, or decrease the skill.



As for the quest with the beetles, just use armor piercing bullets. One should purchase every single one for 5mm, or 7.62mm (maybe .44) armor piercing bullets from day one depending on what weapon you have. Use your molotov too on the ones outside. The outer area is the difficult one as it is too open. Once you managed to kill them and got inside, things get much easier due to the fact that you can use covers while you kite them while falling back from corner to corner. Inside there are more bugs but they are much easier thanks to you making use of your enviroment. You can totally us a bear trap too to stop them as you shoot from a corner and retreat back at the end of your turn. Remember that they take more damage when their carpace is opened.

This will cost you a lot of money though. I mean to buy all those special bullets. I remember so, thanks to the fact that my character was broke, with a lame pistol and everything I sell is accepted on a much-much lower rate.

Before doing this quest, perhaps you should visit the upper underrail, after the 3 bandits with Jack's box, continue north, past the rathounds. Then on the right there is a small fenced area with a guaranteed weapon to loot that's usually the best you could find at that point. One time there was a sniper rifle there and it was awesome to have one so early and being able to one-shot those bugs.

43

Bugs / Re: SGS Introduction quest

« on: June 06, 2020, 06:28:18 am »

Geez.... no XP from returning the digital watch to Jonas either. It's in the quest log, there's a decent amount of activity involved, he acknowledges it  zero XP. Oddity is not supposed to reward experience for killing, but it never said that you don't get anything for solving quests either. Actually it states the opposite, according to the in-game description, quests being the main source of XP. Hopefully this won't be the tendency through the game. Oddity eliminated the need to kill, but doing the same with quests leave very little motivation for the players. I mean those are the two things people play games. If they are taken away, that leaves them collecting used metro tickets from dustbins to be the MAIN way to grow. Not so epic.

44

Builds / Re: Help with High Caliber Gunslinger Build on Normal

« on: June 05, 2020, 07:17:49 am »

Is that WITH the -3 from the Gunslinger perk? I did the math and I think I should have enough cost reduction to fire two shots with 7 DEX.

Well, a shot with that gun costs 32 AP by default, - 3 from Gunslinger = 29. To reduce that 29 to 25, you'll need 9 DEX according to the chart on the wiki-page about Dexterity. If you plan on having that, than decreasing 2 stat points from PER won't be such a big deal compared to what you gain. Also more DEX mean less point needed for lockpick, traps and the like.

God dammit... I made it to the gun, before I saw your post, and you're right. I do need more Dex. Now to restart from the beginning. That's what I get for doing my own math...

Wait, are you sure you need to restart? I mean if you still did not hit level 20 you can still allocate 2 stat points, even choose improved DEX feat instead of PER at level 26 as a last resort.

45

General / Re: Sniper sidearm (why pistols are underrated)

« on: June 05, 2020, 06:14:58 am »

Especially on DOMINATING, which throws really big swarms of enemies at you. Smart A-A spearhead can easily 1-shot almost everything in the game, with the exception of only a few boss enemies on DOMINATING, so you will be essentialy cutting the amount of enemies killed each turn in half. And there will be a lot of them on DOMINATING. Really, a lot.

*This* is actually why I prefer a SMG or Shotgun as the sidearm; when 10 Burrower spawns show up the sniper rifle with it's multi-thousand damage aimed shot is worthless, but a single burst can kill 3+.

The build discussed here is not wielding only a sniper rifle, having a pistol of the same 7.62mm caliber cost 12 AP even with the minimum 7 DEX and can one-shot 6 of these these critters per turn, no problem. No wonder you brought up Burrower spawns, they are the perfect, ideal enemies for SMG builds. Low HP small fries in packs. But they were never a threat anyway, even at early game. I mean their damage can be resisted by the DT of even some decent tac vest.
This build can shoot 10-11 times within 4 turn and each bullet takes a life regardless if it's a spawn or a full grown Burrower. That's the beauty of this rifle. Once it finds a target, it doesn't wound it - it takes care of it. With the first draw, so it won't cost you another attack to finish the enemy. There's no unreliable spray and pray here where you don't even shoot at the enemy, you merely shoot in the direction of it. And against single targets, that's not the best way to go, especially when they are tanky. With the rifle, it's another pull of the trigger and another mob to forget. Each action delivers results. Something you can count and therefore plan with.
Then there's the often underrated advantage of attacking from a safe distance. The luxury of outranging even the guns of the enemy, safe oppurtunities to restealth and allowing better use of covers - instead of the close range requirement of a burst, which often involves to be hurt by anything you leave standing.