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1

Suggestions / Re: Deep Caves & Final Battle re-design suggestions.

« on: January 30, 2016, 03:27:26 pm »

Considering that tchort doesn't even actively threaten Underrail, your character could leave deep caverns without killing him (if that were a possibility in the game). All that would require would be another exit route and a few more ending slides, telling what happens if tchort lives.

There was such a choice in Eschalon: Book I at the very end. You could either surrender a powerful artefact to an orc chieftain, or fight him. If you chose not to fight, the ending told you that your character soon left for another land, and though he's seen glimmer of flames over regions where orcs ruled, it wasn't his concern... for now. Or something like that.

With Tchort, I guess we would see more Tchortist activity, especially from their military and propaganda. Maybe some strange creatures. In years to come, reconstructed Institute would become a beacon for those dissatisfied with both Protectorate and Free Drones - as long as they would be willing to accept eugenics agenda of Tchortists and pass the test. Inside Deep Cavers, Tchort would grow ever more powerful, but still unable to directly influence events in upper parts of Underrail, for the time being.

2

Suggestions / Re: Deep Caves & Final Battle re-design suggestions.

« on: January 29, 2016, 08:35:23 am »

But why would your character care about confronting tchort anyway? That you can leave deep caverns only after you kill tchort, because otherwise your genius-at-mechanics character can't repair the lift is not really good motivation. If anything, I would call it a meta-gaming reason.

Exactly that. Just from thinking a few minutes, I can think of a few alternatives for my character. Like, steal a Tuneller and return to Underrail in it. Or kill all Tchortists and use their elevator (after persuading Faceless to restore power to it, if it is even down, because it doesn't seem to be unpowered to me!).

More than that, my character can't even QUESTION Six. Like, give me an option to say "You crazy maniac, I won't go around killing creatures I know nothing about just because on your say-so!". The game before DC, it was fairly logical. There always was explanation, and I never felt like a "Choosen One". I was just another mercenery in Underrail, doing some work for Supersteel coins. Suddenly, I AM a "Choosen One", or at least damned Six tells me something to that effect, that he "feels" I must destroy Tchort. Stop right there, pal, right now I want to destroy you, not Tchort, or at very least tell you to go to hell...

I felt ejected from game-world into primary world. It's exactly a thing I should NOT feel.

The biggest problem I have with the tchort battle is that it basically comes down to whether you can deal enough damage to a stationary, damage resistant, regenerating HP-sponge. And if you want to reduce its regeneration rate, then you need to destroy four stationary, damage resistant HP-sponges. In retrospect, it really does look like this battle was designed with all those "insanely high damage in one hit" characters in mind.

Well, Mutagen Tanks aren't THAT bad. Even with my unsuitable build (2-school Psi + non-stealth Sniper), I managed to take 3 out of 4. If only the last one was accessible... After that, I could destroy Tentacles one-by-one, and then concentrate on Tchort, without regeneration. It wouldn't be an easy battle, but it would work and it would feel satisfying.

3

Suggestions / Deep Caves & Final Battle re-design suggestions.

« on: January 26, 2016, 09:38:21 pm »

A lot of players, including me, dislike DC and Tchort battle. For me, the whole location and the final combat feel unfinished, like there was supposed to be more content there, but it was cut. Another big problem, is that a build that was viable for the rest of the game may fail miserably in DC, and especially in the final battle.

So, I think Deep Caves and Tchort should be re-designed. Mind you, that does not mean "dumbed down". But consider the final combat: it seems that most players either can't beat it, or one-short Tchort, depending on their build! There is little middle ground, where fighting Tchort is hard, but enjoyable problem that depends on tactical skill and thinking, or maybe just hard work.

Here's what I would propose to do to fix problems with DC:

1) Clarify threat Tchort poses to Underrail. Six doesn't explain anything, and neither do Faceless or computer logs. They describe how the current situation in Deep Caves came to be, but after reading all materials I could find, I still do not understand why should I believe Six that I need to destroy Tchort, or what exact danger it poses. Until its own dialogue about eating souls, for all my character knows, Tchort might eat evil and defecate rainbows!

2) Add a way to make Faceless friendly even if you didn't done right by them before. After meeting with Six, your goal of destroying Tchort coincide with theirs. They should be able to put past animosity aside, after you prove yourself to them.

3) Add some dynamics to Tchortists/Faceless. Currently, both factions are nearly completely inert and exist mostly as decorations (if you befriend Faceless). Faceless do not even react to opening of gates to Tchort!

4) Trader should sell rifle barrels. It's laughable when you have a high-quality weapon frame, but no barrel in ANY of shelves! Also, maybe allow trade with Faceless for electronics?

5) Let player use either faction for the final battle:
    a) For Faceless, help them wipe out Tchortists camp. Then, help them find a (very limited) number of devices that would let them withstand Tchort's psi-curses. Then, a (small) squad of Faceless will join you as meat shields during the final confrontation.
   
    b) For Tchortists, help them drive out Faceless somehow (maybe an explosion at Arke Power Plant to collapse their caves?), then lead an attack on surviving Faceless. Then, help interrogate a prisoner, who tells them all about Tchort, how it is not a god, but an abomination. Faction leader kills prisoner, but a small number of Tchortists lose their religion and join you as meat shields during the final confrontation.
   
    c) For players with very high Persuasion (or/AND Intimidation!), allow an options where BOTH factions help you, after you complete some very hard quest (possibly related to Monolith in worm caves)
   
6) Change location of final battle. Access to Mutagen tanks should be A BIT easier for non-stealth builds.
   Other option: make every destroyed mutagen tank also lower respawn rate of Tchortlings, or switch off one of their types (one tank - no more Devourers, two tanks - no Sowers, three tanks - no Scanners, for example)
   Other option: allow player to use Bio-gas grenades to stop Tentacles from respawning even without destroying mutagen tanks (for example, Tentacle will not respawn IF KILLED by damage from Gas; or Tentacle will no respawn while gas is around its death places).
   Other option: at least, add a hiding place near north-east mutagen tank. Currently, it's the hardest one to destroy.
   Other option: make tentacles always miss a turn when they move (currently, it seems to be random). It will make getting around the map a TINY bit easier, maybe saving some players.

After implementing such options, it is possible to make Tchort itself, or its tentacles a bit harder, though I don't think it would be necessary, but only playtesting will show.
   
Overall, for the design of the final battle, I urge developers to look to boss fight in Geneforge 5. It's quite similar, but way less unbalanced!