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Builds / Re: Jack of all crowd controls (versality chemgun + grenade launcher)
« on: May 21, 2026, 05:51:56 am »
Ok, after finishing the game with this build I've several more things to add
Additional feats:
Point shot - garbage, extremely unreliable, at the end of the game we will have 10 AP attack for chemguns, this ability allows us to save 5 AP for, but it miss oftener than it hits, and its exacerbating the late game problem of chempistols - 8 rounds magazine and constant need for reloading. Although if you are going to take High technicalities and carrying smart plasma/electroshock pistols - this maybe of some value
Execute - it works much better than previous one, but still it is hard to use it because of how many conditions need to be fulfilled, the hardest one - close range for 3 agi build.
Steadfast Aim - the value depends on many factors, but according to my calculations its about ~7.6% dps increase for high-end chemguns. The same amount you will get from high quality infused rathound leather armor. Much better that two previous options
Future orientation - on paper it doesn't sound like a big deal, but in practice it makes a big difference. With it, the uptime of temporal contraction will raise to almost 100%, and it increases the amount of cooked shots - our main source of damage and control. Highly recommended, it should be in all chemgun builds
High technicalities - With this feast at the end of the game smart plasma pistols deals ~1500 dmg with aimed shots. It allows us to reliably snipe down priority targets. It also helps on stealth missions and pairs well with ice guns.
Fatal throw - works at maximum efficiency in the middle game, but damage of chemguns grows faster than hp pools of enemies. Acidic entailments from high end pistols occasionally tics for 300-500 damage, which is often enough to skip 25% of the window entirely. I still like this ability, and in this game the further you progress the easier the game.
Items:
Here we have basically two approaches - area denial or stealth+mobility.
First one implies heavy use of incendiary grenades and poisoned caltrops, hence we need antithermic overcoats and metal boots, it is a defensive style where you want to provoke enemies to attack you in some enclosed space and then hold the line.
The second approach is more offensive, it allows you to scout enemy positions in stealth and dispose of isolated targets with an ice gun + plasma. For items it utilizes leather armor and tabi boots. Armor either is infused cave hopper or infused rathound, i prefer the cave hoppers because our main weapon have 4 effective range and we have 3 agi. Infused rathound armor gives like 11-12% crit chance, in theory this means 7% increase for damage of chemguns, that not much, and in practice it even less because with ambush and focus stim crit chance easily reach 100% anyway, and you constantly use aimed shots. For boots are wider but less impactful, I've played with ninja, but an infused mutated dog or infused siphoner looks good as well.
Unlike feats choice we can change approach anytime, in my experience the further game progresses the stronger offensive style becomes, so I suggest to start with first approach and convert to second when you finish beast quest and gather all super steel refinery data.
Guns:
Our main source of damage - acid pistols. I've seen some other chemgun builds that suggest that fire pistols outdamage them. It is understandable why such opinions have a place, in attach characteristics of high-end chemguns, acid DoT have 60% chance for 351% damage and it doesn't stack, fire DoT on the other looks much better with 75% chance for 645% and it stack with itself. But the problem here is the inexplicit mechanic of mad chemist feat, it works differently for each gun: for acid it increases damage per round, as expected, but for fire one it increases the length of the DoT, damage per rounds remains the same. That means that this big numbers of fire pistols are indeed big only in prolonged fights. I did calculations for high-end weapons and according to it acid gun significantly out-damaged the fire one in the first 3 rounds, around the 4th fire one catches up and at 5th and further starts to lead. But the thing is that nothing except a maybe final boss lives that long.
There are also additional factors that i didn't include in this calculation, like acid trap proc opportunist, and fire dot set up ambush. This may make some fluctuations in damage charts, but under simplified conditions in terms of pure damage acid gun killing stuff almost twice as fast than fire.
Ice gun is not for damage, it is still invaluable for its controlling capabilities. Although in the first round before dots tick it still outdamage other contenders.
Conclusion - acid for dealing damage, ice for stealth, fire for control and for some root immune enemies like coil spiders.
Additional weapons:
Grenade launcher to soften targets from afar, additional aoe, killing psionics with mirror images. Despite zero feats investments damage is still good, especially on targets in acidic trap
Plasma pistol - alpha strike, stealth assassinations. Helps to conserve acid on naga and industrial robots.
Additionally i've tried sniper rifles, knifes and pneumatic gloves. While not being completely useless there still better contenders for weapon slot
Specialization:
Specialist feat is a big deal for this build, because now we are able to full spec both versatility and mad chemist. The latter is often overlooked, I've seen builds that take opportunist spec instead of it, this is a mistake. I did the math and each spec point of mad chemist giving us about a 3.5% increase of damage(calculated it for acid, for fire it will yield more), but its works despite the condition of a target, so in the majority of situations each point spent on mad chemist yields more damage. An exception is the ice gun, mad chemist spec only increases slow duration, so my final ice pistol slows targets for 16 turns.
We have 3 specializations that clearly stand out from the rest: versatility, mad chemist and cooked shot cost, they will take 25 points. The rest 5 are not that important, and maybe spent according to personal preferences. I've taken fatal throw AP and premed CD reduction
I would be very grateful for any feedback, and feel to ask any questions about chemguns.
Additional feats:
Point shot - garbage, extremely unreliable, at the end of the game we will have 10 AP attack for chemguns, this ability allows us to save 5 AP for, but it miss oftener than it hits, and its exacerbating the late game problem of chempistols - 8 rounds magazine and constant need for reloading. Although if you are going to take High technicalities and carrying smart plasma/electroshock pistols - this maybe of some value
Execute - it works much better than previous one, but still it is hard to use it because of how many conditions need to be fulfilled, the hardest one - close range for 3 agi build.
Steadfast Aim - the value depends on many factors, but according to my calculations its about ~7.6% dps increase for high-end chemguns. The same amount you will get from high quality infused rathound leather armor. Much better that two previous options
Future orientation - on paper it doesn't sound like a big deal, but in practice it makes a big difference. With it, the uptime of temporal contraction will raise to almost 100%, and it increases the amount of cooked shots - our main source of damage and control. Highly recommended, it should be in all chemgun builds
High technicalities - With this feast at the end of the game smart plasma pistols deals ~1500 dmg with aimed shots. It allows us to reliably snipe down priority targets. It also helps on stealth missions and pairs well with ice guns.
Fatal throw - works at maximum efficiency in the middle game, but damage of chemguns grows faster than hp pools of enemies. Acidic entailments from high end pistols occasionally tics for 300-500 damage, which is often enough to skip 25% of the window entirely. I still like this ability, and in this game the further you progress the easier the game.
Items:
Here we have basically two approaches - area denial or stealth+mobility.
First one implies heavy use of incendiary grenades and poisoned caltrops, hence we need antithermic overcoats and metal boots, it is a defensive style where you want to provoke enemies to attack you in some enclosed space and then hold the line.
The second approach is more offensive, it allows you to scout enemy positions in stealth and dispose of isolated targets with an ice gun + plasma. For items it utilizes leather armor and tabi boots. Armor either is infused cave hopper or infused rathound, i prefer the cave hoppers because our main weapon have 4 effective range and we have 3 agi. Infused rathound armor gives like 11-12% crit chance, in theory this means 7% increase for damage of chemguns, that not much, and in practice it even less because with ambush and focus stim crit chance easily reach 100% anyway, and you constantly use aimed shots. For boots are wider but less impactful, I've played with ninja, but an infused mutated dog or infused siphoner looks good as well.
Unlike feats choice we can change approach anytime, in my experience the further game progresses the stronger offensive style becomes, so I suggest to start with first approach and convert to second when you finish beast quest and gather all super steel refinery data.
Guns:
Our main source of damage - acid pistols. I've seen some other chemgun builds that suggest that fire pistols outdamage them. It is understandable why such opinions have a place, in attach characteristics of high-end chemguns, acid DoT have 60% chance for 351% damage and it doesn't stack, fire DoT on the other looks much better with 75% chance for 645% and it stack with itself. But the problem here is the inexplicit mechanic of mad chemist feat, it works differently for each gun: for acid it increases damage per round, as expected, but for fire one it increases the length of the DoT, damage per rounds remains the same. That means that this big numbers of fire pistols are indeed big only in prolonged fights. I did calculations for high-end weapons and according to it acid gun significantly out-damaged the fire one in the first 3 rounds, around the 4th fire one catches up and at 5th and further starts to lead. But the thing is that nothing except a maybe final boss lives that long.
There are also additional factors that i didn't include in this calculation, like acid trap proc opportunist, and fire dot set up ambush. This may make some fluctuations in damage charts, but under simplified conditions in terms of pure damage acid gun killing stuff almost twice as fast than fire.
Ice gun is not for damage, it is still invaluable for its controlling capabilities. Although in the first round before dots tick it still outdamage other contenders.
Conclusion - acid for dealing damage, ice for stealth, fire for control and for some root immune enemies like coil spiders.
Additional weapons:
Grenade launcher to soften targets from afar, additional aoe, killing psionics with mirror images. Despite zero feats investments damage is still good, especially on targets in acidic trap
Plasma pistol - alpha strike, stealth assassinations. Helps to conserve acid on naga and industrial robots.
Additionally i've tried sniper rifles, knifes and pneumatic gloves. While not being completely useless there still better contenders for weapon slot
Specialization:
Specialist feat is a big deal for this build, because now we are able to full spec both versatility and mad chemist. The latter is often overlooked, I've seen builds that take opportunist spec instead of it, this is a mistake. I did the math and each spec point of mad chemist giving us about a 3.5% increase of damage(calculated it for acid, for fire it will yield more), but its works despite the condition of a target, so in the majority of situations each point spent on mad chemist yields more damage. An exception is the ice gun, mad chemist spec only increases slow duration, so my final ice pistol slows targets for 16 turns.
We have 3 specializations that clearly stand out from the rest: versatility, mad chemist and cooked shot cost, they will take 25 points. The rest 5 are not that important, and maybe spent according to personal preferences. I've taken fatal throw AP and premed CD reduction
I would be very grateful for any feedback, and feel to ask any questions about chemguns.