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Builds / Re: Viable defensive options

« on: September 18, 2020, 11:10:05 pm »

True enough, my fear is that at some point, having some isn't more helpful than having none. If memory serves the minimum absolute chance to hit is 10% though evasion alone is not going to achieve that. If a few attacks that would be deadly at short or long term (stuns, rooting effects, snipes from beyond the freaking screen) are directed at my character at near minimum value, I have some good odds of surviving. But if my evasion isn't high enough and the enemies hit me half the time, then I am well and truly boned. One of these attacks I can't afford to take on the chin will land, and I'll be reloading my save.

As for deflection, I love that feat and use it whenever I can. Dodge in general is less useful than evasion (to me at least) but it's around 100 free dodge points and I'll take that.

I suppose my question is a bit obscure without some builds to illustrate it (and we're in the build section after all!) so here are a couple, it may illustrate what I do wrong. They're a bit old so I can't claim the crafting values are 100% what they should be, the feats are not ordered and i didn't assign specialization points.

Balor Impersonator:
https://underrail.info/build/?Hg8DBgoDAwYAWQDCoAAAAF5mAAB8clhlYAAAAAAAwqBfVSQ5Yi0SA1JgDUvCgURUfMK2378
Basically just a "put almost everything in strength, see how it goes" kind of build, with some points left over. There should be enough points in crafting to craft anything I need. Chemistry and Biology can reach their caps without workbenches or Hypercerebrix for convenience. Everything else needs both (plus under pie) to craft high-ish level gear. Intimidation is sky-high for Yell, Mercantile is high enough to pass most checks without any help and I can break out the hypercerebrix+under pie for the big occasions. Or raise it with the leftover points. Hacking at effective 120 so I only need to break out the Engineer armor to reach the soft cap, and an MkII for the hard cap. Lockpicking at 103 lets me reach the cap with jackknife, Engineer and just an MkIII. Throwing at 80 because technically that counts as disarming traps.

The archetypal kind of build I make as far as crafting/utility skills are concerned. I could shave off points by planning around the Huxkey instead of planning around not being screwed if I don't get it this run, or not over-invest in Strength and Yell like I did (This build is supposed to wield the Balor Hammer after all) but it's more of a fun build. I rarely have issues reaching my opponents though the mobility is low. Baiting the AI is a dirty trick, but it works.

Stealth Sniper:
https://underrail.info/build/?HgUDCQMQAwfCoFkAAAAAwqBYXABvaWtJSW4AAAAAAABwASQ5KB4CHTV-JkszwoXCtcKk378
Just a stealth sniper, nothing to see here. Should be an average build, it cannot use the higher strength sniper rifles but I prefer the Reaper anyway. I still ran out of points and lowered biology and chemistry, I now need my workbenches for MkV grenades and workbench+hypercerebrix for supersoldier drug. I don't know what to make of the change to sniper rifles yet.

Literal Lightning Punches:
https://underrail.info/build/?HgMNCgMDBwcAKgDCoCh_AFgzAAA0a1NfewDCoAAATABMKyQ5TxRnICoHCRMMBhJLwrN6R9-_
Closest I got to a dodge/evasion build. Tabi+Lightning Punches+Dex 17 (supersoldier drug) still let me reach 4 AP for my leather glove punches. I ran out of feats halfway through so it's barebones, just activate force emission, punch and fish for crits/incapacitates, with some psi powers for chicanery potential.

AR 14 Per:
https://underrail.info/build/?HgkDAwoMAwbCoFkAAAAAAF5bAGt4clhlYgAAAABoAFpVYyg7FWJKDiZGS0nCtcKk378
Might have been everyone's first build, definitely was mine. Tungsten, assault rifle, you're a turret. I'll agree perception is too low by at least one point for the joke and by much more in general, but tungsten armor is my favorite metal armor.

And this right here is the problem:
https://underrail.info/build/?HggNAwoDAwYALwDCoAAAAF4tSz5xd1hlVQAAAABnAFolJmNiwozCmcKLwo7CjQZLVSTCs9-_
Swordguy. The only way I found not to have this guy die horribly to a vast array of snipes, sledgehammerer spam and the like was to make him into a tin can. 8 strength so I can downgrade to riot gear and avoid being crippled my crippling strike, thick skull because I hate stuns and enough HP to take a few hits before going down, but that leaves him with a measly 3 agility, so very few movement points to start with, which are at least immediately halved. At this point I bait the AI so much I'm surprised I need a pole to catch actual fish. Also, my only character with a high pickpocket skill. Hell, at this point I might even shuffle some feats around, cut the fat, grab Guard (even though I find that feat weak) invest in metathermics just enough to get cryo shield and the fire aura, bock what I can, pop fire aura, Molotov MkV myself when swarmed and just pretend this character power walks.

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Builds / Viable defensive options

« on: September 18, 2020, 01:31:23 am »

Title says all, what are the actually viable defensive options and how to implement them?

I have been building characters for a while, but while offensive options are often intuitive enough, I always struggle with defensive options. My default go-to solution is to just pump constitution to 10, strength to 8 or 9 and become a tin can. When going full psi, the swathe of CC abilities is also more than sufficient. When going for a sniper build I just pump around 130 points in stealth, grab the relevant gear and pray. Sniper builds are often focused enough for me to have enough stats to raise Agility too.

However I can't for the life of me make a nimble dodge/evasion based character. The way I see it, tanking through hit points demands an investment in stats (enough to reach constitution 10 and some strength) and feats (though I believe only thick skull is mandatory), tanking through psi CC only demands the investment you were already making to be a cave wizard, some cash and a few feats, stealth demands both stat points to put in Agility, skill points, a feat for convenience and gear but I feel like it only really works for sniper/very long range builds. Kill a few guys during the first turn, use those 15mp to break line of sight and kite with aimed shot, grenades, traps, restealthing, etc... I wouldn't feel confident running a melee or low range stealth guy. And by my understanding, evasion/dodge are a defensive option that relies a lot on skill points, stats, and a few feats to work.

The thing is that while I often have feats to spare and I usually can shuffle around points to get enough constitution to get thick skull, I almost never have the points to invest in dodge/evasion. It is definitely due to how I build my characters, but I end up investing in a lot of things. Besides putting the obligatory 160 points in a combat skill when I don't go full psi, my first "non-essential" expense is some points in throwing to get an effective 80 points in it. I can do without, especially as a tin can that can drop flashbang at their feet, but grenades are awesome and having access to more options than dropping a flashbang at my feet is well worth it. I never have the opportunity to invest in pickpocket, but lockpicking and hacking are great values for the points I put into them, only needing 120 and 103 effective skill respectively respectively before gear bonuses to have the satisfaction of looting absolutely everything before leaving. Crafting is awesome and besides some rarer builds I often have to invest in every single crafting skill. Even as a tin can I need around 150 effective tailoring skill for the helmet/boots padding and a bit less for the carrier vests, weapon based builds not revolving around leather gloves will need around 150-170 mechanics to craft their weapons, and even leather gloves builds will want high mechanics for the pneumatic hammer. Everybody and their mothers want electronics, and chemistry/biology are always useful due to grenade crafting and the supersoldier drug. The bang I get for putting 45 points in psychokinesis and 70 in temporal manipulation is well worth the price in CC, even counting the two feats that come with it, I usually skimp out on metathermics though. Persuasion opens up a lot of options so I usually go for it, but I replace it with intimidation and Yell when making a perception 3 build. It barely makes Death Stalkers more bearable (to say nothing of Black Crawlers) but it's something. I tried going without Mercantile once, and I am never doing that again.

All that means I never really have the 160-200 points I want to put into evasion (160) and dodge (40 for fancy footwork) and the way I get it, with Evasion you either go big or go home, half mesures will just leave your character dead on the ground. It also means that depending on builds, I don't always have the points to put into Agility. Shotguns for example demand perception, some strength, some dexterity for the 2nd best feat, and agility to sprint and get in close with the enemies

So, have I missed something? How do you build characters who don't rely on Thick Skull, God Psi, or shooting people from stealth?