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General / Re: 30-40 hour beginner's review (very long and intense)
« on: December 31, 2021, 08:07:11 pm »
Found this.
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General / 30-40 hour beginner's review (very long and intense)
« on: December 13, 2021, 08:52:45 am »
Hi, thanks for checking the thread. I'm going to be summarizing lists of things I like and don't like and I will be using colorful language because it's natural to me and makes me feel comfortable and more honest. My goal here isn't to make one person feel good or another feel bad, it's to vent my feelings in order to better understand them, in a productive way. I hope someone benefits from my review.
tl;dr: It's okay to skim I'll highlight the important stuff.
This is a throwaway account and will never be used for anything other than just this post. There is no personally identifying information attached to it's profile, and I will never claim ownership of this account. I have no way to gain ego from anything I say about myself here, outside of this post. Please allow me to first, then, provide info about myself to contextualize the review:
I am 35, male, white, north american. I have lived in the mid-west most of my life, impoverished. I practice fighting games to get better in local tournaments. I play ranked modes in competitive shooters and mobas. I rage, I try hard. I will play any role, use any strategy, and never stop trying. My personal philosophy is this: "Victory is the only balm for defeat."
I have PTSD, and some stress disorders. I was abused as a child in ways I won't reveal here. I have been close to death in and out of combat. I have passed 4 kidney stones. I've been ran over by a truck driven by my step-father. I've been hit by a van while biking to work. I've buried friends in the cold dirt with my bare hands. I've been hospitalized with third degree burns over my entire back multiple times. I have been trapped in situations that made death my ally, and I have been very close to it for a long time. This life is transitory and meaningless. There is no God, and very little hope. The only joy that can be experienced has to be snatched from the air like sunbeams between clouds.
Translated: I find joy in overcoming great challenges because the thrill is familiar and reassuring.
Now, on to the game. What is there to say, after all of that? I'm sure the dutiful reader who survived my introduction has already some idea of my opinion on this game. After all, it would be rather humiliating to come and lay defeated at the feet of a piece of electronic entertainment after surviving everything else before it. Well, I will never admit to writing this review. Underrail is fucking bullshit.
Now, I've read online here and there various arguments and experiences. I've played four different characters, with a 2 year break between the first two and the second two. My first character got to Depot A, and I crushed it by abusing line-of-sight and sniper rifles. It's really not as hard as everyone makes it out. I was aware the traps skill was likely the strongest tactical combat skill available, but I didn't want to rely on it, as a sort of challenge to myself. It still was rather difficult and I was curious how other people beat it, so I started reading. I started my second character almost right away, with a much more viable build, but still not traps. Never traps. No reason but pride.
My second character got to the Rat King. It took a few tries, but I had fun defeating him with my sniper rifle and pistol. His loot was very interesting to me, but I didn't understand how the Jawbone crossbow worked, so I looked it up in the Wiki. There I saw a long history of patch notes, the most recent of which made his gear stronger, or weaker, or something. I was soured on the game immediately and shortly quit for two years.
tl;dr: This game, out of cowardice and pride, tries to control how you play it. With all it's might it will tempt you astray and then punish you for listening. There are very few ways to play that bring the difficulty in line with average expectations. Everything else is suffering.
In the last month I restarted the game for some reason I can't recall. I spent a character getting caught up with any changes and relearning the system before I beat the Rat King and realized I wanted to play a different, crafting focused build. I then started what is my current character.
I have been in a grinding deadlock struggle with this game for 30-40 hours since then. I am currently in the Expedition expansion exterminating lots of tribal natives with an energy pistol/sniper rifle/grenadier build. Here's what I've learned.
The merchant system is pathetically designed.
The desire to overcome the restocking and vendor buy-list limitations springs from the fear of having your resources overwhelmed by the tax of many difficult encounters. By studying and cross-referencing mechant wish lists with a list of the most weight/cost efficient items in the game I was able to quickly establish a routine of selling the most valuable, least desired items and using the proceeds to buy what the merchant next door wants. There are locale-exclusive "vendor routes", and there are cross-locale "vendor routes" that utilize multiple locations as well. I acquired far more profit than I wanted, leading me to realize that these punishing economic restrictions led to more exploitative behavior and a weaker gameplay loop overall.
tl;dr: Underrail tries to starve you only to force you to eat the game itself and destroy the experience.
The combat encounters that are the most fun are beginner's traps.
If you enter Core City and want to heroically contribute to pushing the Faceless back, you're doomed. The game hates your mindset and will end your run for it. I was exploring Core City and found myself faced with a Faceless force behind barricades. I'm locked into combat immediately. I throw a grenade and shoot someone. I become curious if this is intentional or not. "Of course it's intentional, the designer has been foreshadowing the Faceless since you got here. Why else would they be right here and automatically fight you, eh?" .... .... ....To make a painful, longer story shorter, I'm going to tell everyone reading this that the Faceless are the most important end-game faction, and they are DIVINELY PSYCHIC as there is a check built into the game of Underrail that informs them how many of their people you've killed, and if you go beyond a certain small number, you're forbidden from playing large portions of late game content. There's also the matter of wearing Rat Hound's Regalia to Camp Hathor, which if you weren't aware, turns the town hostile towards you irreversibly. I'm sure there are other instances of similar design, as these functions are obviously intentional. In fact, they are overtly malicious. I beat the Arena, that was fun. I wasn't informed that clipping an ally with a flashbang accidentally turned all allies hostile. A little cruel, obviously intentionally designed, but no big deal. However, the Gauntlet is another matter.
Defeating the Gauntlet is, simply put, impossible for the vast majority of players and builds at any stage.
Nice game here, by the way. Very nice. Oh yeah, I want you to read this as dryly sarcastic. The difference in difficulty between the Arena and the Gauntlet is staggering, and they are both presented to you side by side. Ha, the Gauntlet actually unlocks mid-way through the Arena! As if anyone who just unlocked it could actually complete it. I'm not even going to get into details, all of you who have tried it know exactly what I'm talking about. For everyone who hasn't tried the Gauntlet, make a backup save, or your game is permanently over. You have literally no chance, it's an actual death trap. You're doomed. I am not exaggerating for comedic effect.
I opened an unlocked unowned door in Core City and was immediately murdered by a carefully designed gank squad. They weren't story relevant. I didn't stumble on to a quest encounter. There is just a large deliberately placed building filled with hostile enemies in the middle of a public walkway of Core City. Nice setting you had, before that.
The cruel hand of God is unfortunately the only explanation for some encounters, leading directly to perceived hatred from the game designer.
tl;dr: Underrail punishes you for exploring, fighting, looting, and playing the game.
The truest shame is that it is evident there is effort and individuality that has been spent manifesting this digital work. There is, for lack of a better term, soul. There are actually many parts I enjoyed.
GOOD HIGHLIGHTS:
Spooky sailor story that leads to a spooky island encounter which can result in fascinating lore and a free bonus ability, if you're eligible for it.
Digging pathetically with your bleeding, infected, numb hands through rags and piles of human filth in a cannibal's holding cell, beyond the point of all reason or rationality, with a vivid depiction of the internal fear and pain present in such a desperate, hopeless struggle, to be rewarded with a tiny, priceless trinket at the end if you persevered against despair.
Teetering on the edge of a deadly cliff, then being rescued by a cold gasp of mercy as the Gods of War and Fortune rest their fingers on the scale for your benefit.
Dope nicknames customized to your playstyle if you conquer the Arena.
Not being betrayed at the end of some quests because you killed the enemies the game told you to kill.
Some cool uniques.
Being rewarded for being merciful to your fellow man.
Rolling your feet heel-to-toe silently across crumbled ruins as you carefully approach technological forts bristling with stylistic, otherworldly defenses. Blinking as the music you've been listening to rises to the level of conscious listening and prickles your skin.
Jet skis are kinda cool I guess.
Review synopsis: It's akin to a curse. Underrail is a game that doesn't want to be played. Yet still, as living is pain that can produce pleasure, Underrail is an experience in kind.
Do I recommend it? No. If I had to answer casually, I'd say "Underrail is trash, man. That games hates you for playing it. Unless you like getting fucked in the ass, no, I wouldn't recommend it, haha."
But, for some there are few ways to have your strengths meaningfully challenged. Underrail is like benching 300lbs. If you can do it, it can be diverting. Even those that can shouldn't make a habit or routine out of doing it, though.
tl;dr: It's okay to skim I'll highlight the important stuff.
This is a throwaway account and will never be used for anything other than just this post. There is no personally identifying information attached to it's profile, and I will never claim ownership of this account. I have no way to gain ego from anything I say about myself here, outside of this post. Please allow me to first, then, provide info about myself to contextualize the review:
I am 35, male, white, north american. I have lived in the mid-west most of my life, impoverished. I practice fighting games to get better in local tournaments. I play ranked modes in competitive shooters and mobas. I rage, I try hard. I will play any role, use any strategy, and never stop trying. My personal philosophy is this: "Victory is the only balm for defeat."
I have PTSD, and some stress disorders. I was abused as a child in ways I won't reveal here. I have been close to death in and out of combat. I have passed 4 kidney stones. I've been ran over by a truck driven by my step-father. I've been hit by a van while biking to work. I've buried friends in the cold dirt with my bare hands. I've been hospitalized with third degree burns over my entire back multiple times. I have been trapped in situations that made death my ally, and I have been very close to it for a long time. This life is transitory and meaningless. There is no God, and very little hope. The only joy that can be experienced has to be snatched from the air like sunbeams between clouds.
Translated: I find joy in overcoming great challenges because the thrill is familiar and reassuring.
Now, on to the game. What is there to say, after all of that? I'm sure the dutiful reader who survived my introduction has already some idea of my opinion on this game. After all, it would be rather humiliating to come and lay defeated at the feet of a piece of electronic entertainment after surviving everything else before it. Well, I will never admit to writing this review. Underrail is fucking bullshit.
Now, I've read online here and there various arguments and experiences. I've played four different characters, with a 2 year break between the first two and the second two. My first character got to Depot A, and I crushed it by abusing line-of-sight and sniper rifles. It's really not as hard as everyone makes it out. I was aware the traps skill was likely the strongest tactical combat skill available, but I didn't want to rely on it, as a sort of challenge to myself. It still was rather difficult and I was curious how other people beat it, so I started reading. I started my second character almost right away, with a much more viable build, but still not traps. Never traps. No reason but pride.
My second character got to the Rat King. It took a few tries, but I had fun defeating him with my sniper rifle and pistol. His loot was very interesting to me, but I didn't understand how the Jawbone crossbow worked, so I looked it up in the Wiki. There I saw a long history of patch notes, the most recent of which made his gear stronger, or weaker, or something. I was soured on the game immediately and shortly quit for two years.
tl;dr: This game, out of cowardice and pride, tries to control how you play it. With all it's might it will tempt you astray and then punish you for listening. There are very few ways to play that bring the difficulty in line with average expectations. Everything else is suffering.
In the last month I restarted the game for some reason I can't recall. I spent a character getting caught up with any changes and relearning the system before I beat the Rat King and realized I wanted to play a different, crafting focused build. I then started what is my current character.
I have been in a grinding deadlock struggle with this game for 30-40 hours since then. I am currently in the Expedition expansion exterminating lots of tribal natives with an energy pistol/sniper rifle/grenadier build. Here's what I've learned.
The merchant system is pathetically designed.
The desire to overcome the restocking and vendor buy-list limitations springs from the fear of having your resources overwhelmed by the tax of many difficult encounters. By studying and cross-referencing mechant wish lists with a list of the most weight/cost efficient items in the game I was able to quickly establish a routine of selling the most valuable, least desired items and using the proceeds to buy what the merchant next door wants. There are locale-exclusive "vendor routes", and there are cross-locale "vendor routes" that utilize multiple locations as well. I acquired far more profit than I wanted, leading me to realize that these punishing economic restrictions led to more exploitative behavior and a weaker gameplay loop overall.
tl;dr: Underrail tries to starve you only to force you to eat the game itself and destroy the experience.
The combat encounters that are the most fun are beginner's traps.
If you enter Core City and want to heroically contribute to pushing the Faceless back, you're doomed. The game hates your mindset and will end your run for it. I was exploring Core City and found myself faced with a Faceless force behind barricades. I'm locked into combat immediately. I throw a grenade and shoot someone. I become curious if this is intentional or not. "Of course it's intentional, the designer has been foreshadowing the Faceless since you got here. Why else would they be right here and automatically fight you, eh?" .... .... ....To make a painful, longer story shorter, I'm going to tell everyone reading this that the Faceless are the most important end-game faction, and they are DIVINELY PSYCHIC as there is a check built into the game of Underrail that informs them how many of their people you've killed, and if you go beyond a certain small number, you're forbidden from playing large portions of late game content. There's also the matter of wearing Rat Hound's Regalia to Camp Hathor, which if you weren't aware, turns the town hostile towards you irreversibly. I'm sure there are other instances of similar design, as these functions are obviously intentional. In fact, they are overtly malicious. I beat the Arena, that was fun. I wasn't informed that clipping an ally with a flashbang accidentally turned all allies hostile. A little cruel, obviously intentionally designed, but no big deal. However, the Gauntlet is another matter.
Defeating the Gauntlet is, simply put, impossible for the vast majority of players and builds at any stage.
Nice game here, by the way. Very nice. Oh yeah, I want you to read this as dryly sarcastic. The difference in difficulty between the Arena and the Gauntlet is staggering, and they are both presented to you side by side. Ha, the Gauntlet actually unlocks mid-way through the Arena! As if anyone who just unlocked it could actually complete it. I'm not even going to get into details, all of you who have tried it know exactly what I'm talking about. For everyone who hasn't tried the Gauntlet, make a backup save, or your game is permanently over. You have literally no chance, it's an actual death trap. You're doomed. I am not exaggerating for comedic effect.
I opened an unlocked unowned door in Core City and was immediately murdered by a carefully designed gank squad. They weren't story relevant. I didn't stumble on to a quest encounter. There is just a large deliberately placed building filled with hostile enemies in the middle of a public walkway of Core City. Nice setting you had, before that.
The cruel hand of God is unfortunately the only explanation for some encounters, leading directly to perceived hatred from the game designer.
tl;dr: Underrail punishes you for exploring, fighting, looting, and playing the game.
The truest shame is that it is evident there is effort and individuality that has been spent manifesting this digital work. There is, for lack of a better term, soul. There are actually many parts I enjoyed.
GOOD HIGHLIGHTS:
Spooky sailor story that leads to a spooky island encounter which can result in fascinating lore and a free bonus ability, if you're eligible for it.
Digging pathetically with your bleeding, infected, numb hands through rags and piles of human filth in a cannibal's holding cell, beyond the point of all reason or rationality, with a vivid depiction of the internal fear and pain present in such a desperate, hopeless struggle, to be rewarded with a tiny, priceless trinket at the end if you persevered against despair.
Teetering on the edge of a deadly cliff, then being rescued by a cold gasp of mercy as the Gods of War and Fortune rest their fingers on the scale for your benefit.
Dope nicknames customized to your playstyle if you conquer the Arena.
Not being betrayed at the end of some quests because you killed the enemies the game told you to kill.
Some cool uniques.
Being rewarded for being merciful to your fellow man.
Rolling your feet heel-to-toe silently across crumbled ruins as you carefully approach technological forts bristling with stylistic, otherworldly defenses. Blinking as the music you've been listening to rises to the level of conscious listening and prickles your skin.
Jet skis are kinda cool I guess.
Review synopsis: It's akin to a curse. Underrail is a game that doesn't want to be played. Yet still, as living is pain that can produce pleasure, Underrail is an experience in kind.
Do I recommend it? No. If I had to answer casually, I'd say "Underrail is trash, man. That games hates you for playing it. Unless you like getting fucked in the ass, no, I wouldn't recommend it, haha."
But, for some there are few ways to have your strengths meaningfully challenged. Underrail is like benching 300lbs. If you can do it, it can be diverting. Even those that can shouldn't make a habit or routine out of doing it, though.
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