Messages

136

General / Re: Uhm, the economical and crafting sistems stil need some more loving..

« on: January 21, 2015, 05:06:56 pm »

There is basis in my argument. Most people don't like objectively bad systems. Some people do, but they are a minority. That is the reason why you see many bad games out there but with a very small number of people who actually think the game is good as it is.

Ask people if the liked weight limits in fallout 2 and they will tell you no, it made them go back and forth. Ask people if the liked limit of money in fallout 2 and thwy would say no because they had to go between a couple towns to sell loot and probably still take a few stimpacks as payment.

Ask people if they liked that there was no money limit in stores for arcanum and they will say they do. As people if they minded the weight limit in arcanum and they will tell you no because between you and the companions you could always carry everything, though they will also say if you could just carry everything yourself for the sake of easier inventory management it would be better.

People will always prefer mechanics that do not make them waste their time. Bear in mind that leaving stuff behind because you can't sell it is wasting your time. Wasting time killing things because you are at the end of the day not getting anything out of it, in fact you are only wasting both your time and your resources.

137

General / Re: Uhm, the economical and crafting sistems stil need some more loving..

« on: January 21, 2015, 04:42:19 pm »

There is no problem with some people liking an objectively bad system. That is not what I am saying.

The problem is for all the people who don't like it because it is just bad... That means it hurts game sales and basicly becomes a black review for a developer who is quite obviously putting his passion into the project. It's also true that having a bad record in games makes people less willing to buy games you develop in the future... There is also the issue of making a game which many people just reguard as bad and then have all the credit attributed for a good game being given to a modder who actually solved the issues that a game had.

It's as I said. If Styg really wanted to put this system in no matter what when it is objectively bad. Fine, but make it optional as he made it with the XP system.

138

General / Re: Uhm, the economical and crafting sistems stil need some more loving..

« on: January 21, 2015, 03:57:55 pm »

Yeah but this is the one thing i'll never really shut up about because this makes the game bad. Plain and simple.

It is not simply a case of personal preference. I have pointed out why it makes the game bad, I have pointed out why the economy system will never be able to be fixed because of this.

If this was a case of. Should the game use a square base movement system or a hex based movement system. I'd say i prefer square based even if hex based is better. But that would just be a preference, not an objective problem with the game. This economic and weight system is plain bad and hurts the game. So I will be very vocal about it as it is a real issue that needs to be addressed.

139

General / Re: Uhm, the economical and crafting sistems stil need some more loving..

« on: January 21, 2015, 02:59:54 pm »

I've seen more than that, but the people who usually complained about it did so when the changes hit... All in all it weren't still many, but considering that there isn't many people actually posting in the foruns I'd say it still is a decent number of people... Still, you got no complaints vs some complaints. It denotes which system was better.

140

Bugs / Re: Killing Morde makes you an enemy of SGS

« on: January 21, 2015, 02:26:49 pm »

He is part of the SGS but if he is supposed to be alone no one should know either way.

141

General / Re: Uhm, the economical and crafting sistems stil need some more loving..

« on: January 21, 2015, 02:25:54 pm »

No it wouldn't. You see, when there was no vendor restrictions nor carry weights the only complaint was too much money floating. Not a single soul complained about vendors buying everything nor you being able to carry everything.

Now you got the complaints of too much money and of those restrictions. Clearly the old system was better than the new one and in no way destroyed the game, it merely made everyone happy.

Also with this new system there will never be a problem to how much money float. You'll either always have too much or not enough.

You wanna force decisions? Simple, remove all the silly restrictions and put less money on the game, then people are forced to decide what they buy and even what they sell in case some weapon breaks down and you just can't repair it.

142

General / Re: Uhm, the economical and crafting sistems stil need some more loving..

« on: January 20, 2015, 11:41:49 pm »

I can't. The game brings me no enjoyment if I am leaving good stuff behind, stuff that actually has a lot of value. It's not just how I think the game should be. It gets completly unplayable for me. Even thinking. I'll leave loot behind, there is gonna be more than enough money. The moment that I hit GMS and couldn't even loot 2 levels of it without getting overweight I just ragequited the game... The level of frustation is just through the roof, it saps all possible enjoyment that could be derived from the game when before I felt the game was amazing and that Styg was amasing for dealing away with carry weights and such non-sense. Pure enjoyment with no immersion break.

Right now I'm doomed to either get a game I'll never play again. Or wait for styg to actually include an option that allows the game to be enjoyed when we reach the final version cause if he does that, I'm sure he won't do it before then cause I've been waiting forever for it so I  got no illusions. Or in a last case scenario, wait for someone to mod the game into making it an actually good game.

143

General / Re: Uhm, the economical and crafting sistems stil need some more loving..

« on: January 20, 2015, 11:16:34 pm »

I base what I say with my experience of the game. As far as I've been made known, these things have not been changed in anyway way through the development. I haven't seen any loot rebalancing in notes for mid game. Just the early game.

144

General / Re: Uhm, the economical and crafting sistems stil need some more loving..

« on: January 20, 2015, 11:01:12 pm »

I cannot play the game. It's unbearable to play a game with such a horrible economic system and I've tried, several times and every time I just couldn't deal with the inabillity to carry items and sell items. The game just frustates me. Pleasure given 0.

145

General / Re: Uhm, the economical and crafting sistems stil need some more loving..

« on: January 20, 2015, 10:49:56 pm »

While my experience is only up to junkyard, it is how it goes. Nothing I'll find in the junkyard or around it, even in Depot A is better than what is for sale in the junkyard. At best it will be of equal value but usually lower... Materials may actually differ but for equipment it is true. Still what use is there to find much higher materials which you just don't have the skill to use? By the time you have more than likely the vendors will have material at that quallity... Then again I may be talking out of my ass relative to what the vendors may have but my experience with material, usually when you find high waullity you just don't have the skills anyway, nor will have for many, many levels.

Interesting wourld informantion... Only need to do it once. Unique items. Well I'm sure the number of those are extremely limited and you'll only ever do those that will affect your class. One or two are hardly a measure of the vastness of the amount of quests and explorarion... Money, which is what compared to the loot left behind? Not to mention that we have more than enough money (again don't forget that my proposal isn't just to go back to the old system but to lower the value of items to also address this issue)... Experience. As far as I can tell and again I do know my experience is somewhat limited in comparison to the current content, you don't need to go out of the way to get XP. Even if you do you'll probably only do one or another which you know gives you a lot for as little trouble (time wasted) as possible.

I belive you that level and skill increasses are necessary, it was through the whole game till there, it shouldn't change as it goes forward. What I am saying is that you probably don't need to get off the beaten path to get enough skills and levels to go on.

Some of the stuff you do may branch, but odds are you do it the way it feels right to you and always do it that way. If you really get curious you can savescum to see different results and/or use wikia just to get to know. One playthrough is more than enough given that the players will not feel rewarded for doing it.

Lore is very important the first time around and only the first time around. Just like you play fallout 2 for the first time and get to explore all that cool story, after you beat it once, replayabillity does not comes from story but gameplay mechanics as you try different types of characters. How much replayabillity does Underrail begs? some possibly, but definitly without going into sidequests or exploring because it's just a huge waste of time. As for things like mass effect. This might be just me but I do not consider those things an RPG. There just isn't enough freedom and enough choice for it to ever quallify as an RPG. Anything that is not on a close level of things like fallout or arcanum do not quallify as true RPGs. At least not in my book... As such, all RPGs are loot driven.

146

General / Re: Uhm, the economical and crafting sistems stil need some more loving..

« on: January 20, 2015, 09:54:13 pm »

Equipment... Don't need, can buy it. In fact I'll just end up leaving it behind because of carry weights and vendor limits anyway.

Materials... Again, can just buy them and the more you stock the harder it is to have inventory space for more stuff.

Quests... Whose rewards are? Nothing because you cannot get any profit from the loot as the merchants are already spent from the main storyline.

Experience... Yes, I'll give you a point here if you do are feeling the difficulty and need a level or two to get back on track but I doubt it is really needed.

Interesting storylines... Again you do have a point here, but if I get nothing from it, even if I did it only once to know them, that's all there would be to it, no replay value with them as you already did it once and from there, given that there is no reward for doing it you won't need to do it again ever. Much like the GMS vault. You go there once, get nothing worth your trouble, speditures and time and you don't touch it again. Waste of time for both players and developers.

It is not all about the loot, but it's mostly about the loot. It's an RPG and as such it revolves around loot a lot. People play games because they enjoy playing games. Everytime they beat something tough or get rewarded for their work they get a dopamine release which gives them the pleasure. In these games the loot is what gives us the enjoyment, it's our reward, our dopamine release. Basicly the game is denying you that.

147

General / Re: Uhm, the economical and crafting sistems stil need some more loving..

« on: January 20, 2015, 09:23:22 pm »

Of course not, the moment new areas were added past the junkyard so was introduced this new economy system which I cannot even understand how someone can tolareta playing it through.

But either way it does not changes anything does it? You still loot more than you can sell. Selling things becomes a chore with no end and the game pretty much seems to make you go on rails (no pun intended) by not making you deviate from the main storyline as you have no reason to do anything else except the bare minimum.

At least I know that if when I am doing only the storyline I cannot sell everything, then I wouldn't go and do anything else which would reward me in no way whatsoever and would in fact only waste my time.

I won't talk about new vegas or fallout 3. That thing is a heresy and bethesda should burn for ever having turned a great game into that atrocity.

148

General / Re: Uhm, the economical and crafting sistems stil need some more loving..

« on: January 20, 2015, 08:09:47 pm »

Hilf, you method, while not whole solving the problem would certainly lessen it. The question still becomes. Why rely on contrived mechanics that ultimatly do not benefict the game in any way when there is a better way? Again I don't have a problem with a system being tested and if it works then fine, but if doesn't then either change it or use the formula that everyone else uses them. There is a very good reason that they use the formula everyone else does. Because it's good and it works, not to mention that no one came with a better one. Something new for the sake of being different isn't enough of a reason. Above all it should be good.

As for your example I cannot speak for your experience. Mine is, get to junkyard, get stuff much better than whatever you'll find on any quest around or exploring. With luck you can find something on the same level as what is available there... Also durabillity is not really much of a sign of superiority although better durabillity usually means better stats. But waht matters is the stats, durabillity, meh you can repair it anyway.

I cannot imagine what level enemies should normally be around core city but the equipment sold should match it or actually be slightly superior in the majority of cases.

Either way your earlier example would at least leasen the problem, not solve it but leasen it. I would still rather see no buying limits, lower prices and slightly higher carrying capacity (as well as the heavier items taking a huge hit to their weight).

Unlimited. Your proposition does not helps in any way. the problem is that you get to the gun merchant. Here I have 10 guns to sell. Sorry I only buy 3. What does it matter if the loot tends to be what merchant buys, the problem lies with them not buying enough to start with... Of course removing the limit of which type of item would also be good but it's just that there is no way to offload what you get from the main storyline alone becuase you sell what you can and you are left with tons of excess that the merchants should buy, but they just filled their quota.

149

General / Re: Uhm, the economical and crafting sistems stil need some more loving..

« on: January 20, 2015, 05:28:43 pm »

Perhaps you don't realise the full scope of this so let me explain.

Option one, merchant pays too much, too much money floating around.

Option two, merchant pays just about enough for you to always have enough equipment. Not too much money floating around but still no reason to go exploring and doing sidequests.

Option three, merchant doesn't pays enough, it still doesn't matters if you go do sidequests and explore because you are still limited to the quantity that the merchant buys and as such you still won't have enough money.

There isn't a way around this because the problem lies with the limits of merchant buying.

When you have no limits in how much they buy, it's only a matter of adjusting prices, but when you limit how much stuff they buy, you create a whole new problem with the economic system.

150

General / Re: Uhm, the economical and crafting sistems stil need some more loving..

« on: January 20, 2015, 04:22:22 pm »

You get crafting materials which you can buy anyway and money isn't a problem.

You get oddities but yeah I don't use the oddity system and I feel that many will not after the game release. It's a good system if you want passive play, it's  bad system if you want lots of combat.

You get more chances of droping something useful, which I can  get by going to town and just buying something a lot better. Grinding for hours and hours for marginal upgrades is hardly worth a player's time... At least in an RPG.

Indeed you'd get money which you consider useless. You can use money to buy whatever. We've already gone through the game giving the player way to much money. The problems of lack of resources in the early game has been addressed, now it's a question of making the mid and late game not give you as much money.

So then you'd go do sidequests and exploring because you would get stuff to craft and if it didn't drop, you can just buy it with the money from selling stuff. Going into exploration means finding more items, you can either get marginal upgrades or just sell stuff to buy what you need. And just doing the main quest line wouldn't likely give you enough money, that's why you have sidequests and exploration, to suplement what you lack. You don't need to do everything, but you'll at least have to do a good deal.

However one thing is true. This economic system will never allow for a proper solution to the too much money problem. Why? Because you limit what the merchants buy and in doing so then you must make sure that they pay more than enough to get you going... Let's face it, this economic system will never work properly. I can understand that Styg spent a lot of time creating this system, but it's better to scratch something that doesn't works than keep trying to adjust something that is just never going to work.