Messages

346

Suggestions / Re: Shroomhead alternative?

« on: January 22, 2014, 01:11:00 am »

The problem is that I know myself too well and once I start disliking a game because I'm playing with thiongs I really hate then I just let go of it forever. I'd rather cling to the hope that some of these things are either removed or just become optional in the future and won't wreck my current love for the game.

347

Development Log / Re: Dev Log #25: Game Economy Changes

« on: January 22, 2014, 12:39:42 am »

I am unsure of how you manage to do this. In my personal experience and from what I've seen from most people it's impossible to craft something better than what is sold in the area unless you've already finished with that area (you already leveled enough to have the skills for those components).

And if you are unsure that crafting should keep you ahead of the curve then I cannot imagine what you think crafting is for. Sure in some cases like making grenades or psi booters and similar stuff serves to make you some money or just to save you money on that kind of stuff. But when we talk about combat gear it must be something to keep you ahead of the curve. It makes no sense that whatever equipment you can make is worse than what is being sold. Then why bother making it in the first place? The natural thing to do is go to the new area, buy the best equipment you can find and use it for that eare... sure you can't aford a whole new set of equipment but you can get enough, usually just getting the best weapon does the trick, the rest eitehr drops or you buy after a couple quests there anyway.

As for trying it. I have done it in the previous version and aside the explosives requiring more skills now, there is no change to teh skill requirments for the equipment from all the dev logs. Also people continue to complain about it so it must still be as it was. So I will not try it because I don't like the new economy system. I don't have a problem with many improvements it has brought, but weight limits and limiting how much merchants buy from you is enough to have me running around from merchant to merchant just trying to sell my stuff and getting incredibly bored and frustated... This not to mention several trips to the same areas to get loot cause I couldn't carry more and even getting slowed down by the loot I carry... One of the major points about this game for me was exactly that it was foregoing all of this busy work which served no other purpose other than frustate a player. I know Styg wants to just limit what players pick up, force them to make a choice of what to carry and what to leave behind but in the majority of cases I'd say players won't do that. Players will just do whatever it takes to bring everything back and sell everything and eventually they will get frustated and stop playing at all. Because I know that would happen to me I'd rather just wait for some update where either that has been removed or has an option to be turned off.

348

Development Log / Re: Dev Log #25: Game Economy Changes

« on: January 21, 2014, 04:22:58 pm »

That might be correct but let's put things into perspective. If you've finished the junkyard and can finally make beter stuff than what is currently in the junkyard. Then you are just aboutto move to a new area and that new area will have much better stuff to sell than what you can craft currently.

Crafting should always be keeping you ahead of the curve since you are investing your points into it.

349

Suggestions / Re: Shroomhead alternative?

« on: January 21, 2014, 04:20:06 pm »

We had one yes because it wasn't so viable to do without regeneration at the beggining. Sure it was possible to do it but it was sub-optimal before because of the huge down time and now I find it even worse. But if you say that you have enough money after the very first mission to pop psi booster like candy before each battle then I'll just have to take your word for it then, though that would seam contrary to what the new economy system would do which is trying to force people to leave less valuable stuff behind and keep them going after merchants everywhere to get rid of the few valuable stuff.

350

Development Log / Re: Dev Log #25: Game Economy Changes

« on: January 21, 2014, 03:02:14 pm »

I think you are missing te point. Let's say I've just reached the junkyard after getting the quest to go there. I get there, find the components to make a gun... They are all much higher skill than I can use. Now let's say I have all teh components and they are exactly of the skill level that I have in crafting. Whatever I craft the merchant will have much better version. In fact so much better there isn't even a base for comparison... That is were we are getting here. If we grab on components of the exact level we can craft nd then go to the merchant, the merchant just sells better weapons or armor altogether. Even if you add something rare that gives it some sort of bonus. The weapon base damage or the armor base defense is still going to be much lesser than what you can buy relativelly to what you can craft even if the components you have are exactly on the same skill level as you are.

351

Suggestions / Re: Shroomhead alternative?

« on: January 21, 2014, 02:56:36 pm »

I haven't tested it yet Styg. I'm just taking a conjecture of what psi boosters cost, even if the new economy might not be as hard. Quite frankly the new economy system makes me not want to touch the game least I start hating the weight limits and having to run around for hours trying to sell my stuff because I just can't accept not being able to sell everything or take everything. To me that's only adding busy work that has no reason to be there, much like doing fetch quests in MMOs.

Now I don't assume that I'll do alright being a spellcaster right from level 1 and kill everything with spells. That said I do expect to have to use a spell or two per battle right from the beggining since it will be my best combat skill and whatever else I pick just a back up. Since at the very beggining you cannot afford the psi boosters and probably you won't be able to afford them in suficient numbers until past the GMS (ok I have no clue if the new economy system helps with this but I'm not expecting to be swiming in money, especially with weight limits and limits to what merchants buy). The GMS however requires for a spell caster to go very heavy on spells. The robots need energy damage and that comes in the form of spells and you need 2 to 3 spells per robot in order to kill it. Then you have the lower part where you need at least a spell or two in the starting room against those 3 guys. You need one spell in two 1v1 fights in the corridors. You need a spell or two against the 2 guys by the doors and then you need even more spells to deal with the 3 guys left inside... Now before the shroomhead was changed I could do this by just going back to the room in the middle floor and stand next to the mindshrooms. I'm fairly confident that the new system will not allow you to do this and eliminate the psi user based form of combat early on making full psi users not being worth much... Please assume a full psi user needs all the 3 psi abillities, it needs 10 will to star and normally starts at 3 str cause it's just the easiest way to attain those 10 will and give a few boosts here and there. From there only will is raised up cause it better your psi abillities further.

As for you saying you had a psi user going for heavy armor and a sledgehammer. Quite frankly I dunno how that went but frankly I find that having a low will and low psi skill values (since the will bonus is negligible) will make some spells not work many tames and damage from psi abillities be reduced. I'm not saying it doesn't works but I'm saying the Psi abillities don't work as they should. What helps you is a heavy armor taking the blows for you and well, sledgehammers do tend to deal a lot of damage if needed be... I'd hardly call that a pure psi user.

352

Development Log / Re: Dev Log #25: Game Economy Changes

« on: January 21, 2014, 02:29:29 pm »

I can understand that Styg but let me put it in this perspective. How worth is it going to be to add a very rare component to a gun (assuming you even have the skill to put it on the gun if it's something that rare) if at the end of the day the gun's damage is going to be that much inferior to the damage of a gun that the merchant sells me?

353

Development Log / Re: Dev Log #25: Game Economy Changes

« on: January 21, 2014, 03:18:37 am »

I agree but therein lies the problem. Even if you could use crafting to just mod a weapon you already have it would just ask you for all of the skills each individual component has plus the extra to put the several parts together which would make it not work again. I still belive the best way would be for crafting items to lose skill requirements and instead your skill being determinat in the quallity of what you craft. That not being an option the best one is still to simply tone down the required skills a lot, I'm not going to go over numbers because i'd have to test and try to figure out what numbers would give an approximated value because quite frankly I'd rip my hair off dealing with merchants not buying everything and weight limits. but I'd risk to say that based on the huge disparity of what you can craft and what you can buy from what I remember it would maybe need a 50% requirement reduction. Again hard to be precises on any level without some proper testing of what is available on the market at my level and what I can craft (proccess repeated through various levels in order to get a good grip on the disparity).

354

Suggestions / Re: Shroomhead alternative?

« on: January 20, 2014, 11:48:23 pm »

Melle + heavy armor doesn't goes well with psi, it's uust a grab that specific psi to use mellee at 3 squares distance. That isn't what I'd call a psi build, it has a minimal psi assistence and it isn't even because the abillity is that good, it's mostly flavor as the abillity only gives you a little bit of range in punches but gives you no bonus to damage or anything else. then again wouldn't make sense to give bonus because for that it would be dependent on your psi skill and if you're going heavy str based forget having a high psi bonus.

As for most builds having a limited amount of resources at the start... well true, but here's the thing. If I build a mellee guy, money won't be too much of an issue early on. If I buld a guy that uses guns, money will be an issue early one, but it will allow me to keep up with the expenses on bullets. If I make a psi guy I just will not have enough psi early on to get me through all battles because the boosters are very expensive and the psi reserves are incredibly small and non regenerative. You just hurt a lot in the beggining to make a psi based character because you nearly cannot use psi at all and instead have to use whatever secondary weapon you are okish at. You can still get through it I have no doubt, but you are severelly gimped by comparison to any other kind of build.

355

Development Log / Re: Dev Log #25: Game Economy Changes

« on: January 20, 2014, 11:36:34 pm »

I think most people felt the same problem with the crafting. It asks for too much skills to craft anything at all and by the time you can craft what you were trying to, you already have a much better item and to craft something than what you already have it's many more levels ahead of your current skill... It has been sugested before that items stopped requiring a skill and rather the quallity of the item was based on the skill ofthe crafter but this idea was rejected so I guess the only way to solve this is to severely tone down the crafting system requirements.

356

Suggestions / Re: Shroomhead alternative?

« on: January 20, 2014, 04:52:00 pm »

Surely after you get more money than god, but in the beggining you are not going to have enough money to just keep on spending on psi boosters and at the end of the day, drinking psi booster after psi booster is a bit wasteful. This not to mention the changes to the economy which include not only the merchants not buying everything making it a chore just to go around and sell everything, but also the weight limit which for the normal psi focused character is low as the usual build goes on 3 str.

Again I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying it's not viable to do a full psi character especially with the dificulty curve early on where your psi is low and your ways of recovery are virtually non existent.

357

Suggestions / Re: Shroomhead alternative?

« on: January 20, 2014, 03:11:27 pm »

Quite frankly I don't like shroomhead now, it makes the feat quite useless for any focused psi character and makes the psi builds unviable given that psi builds relly on using psi abillities time and time again every single combat which was why I before said that it should just regenerate on it's own, now without a way to get free psi, psi abillities are at best a support abillity to be used used when in a bind. The problem with this is that you can't make a focused psi character because you need to be good at other things rather than psi and when psi isn't focused it often loses it's abillities as it either does less damage or enemies are just able to resist the effects turning psi useless.

The way shroomhead used to work was sub-optimal already because what it meant before was just a go back to the last mushroom and waste time waiting for Psi to refil. The ideal way for it to have worked previously was for mushrooms to restore Psi to 40% instantly in order to have less down time. Even more ideal would be just a feat that would regenerate 2% of psi per second up to a max of 40% when out of combat. This would remove the down time a lot and make psi viable again.

358

Development Log / Re: Dev Log #25: Game Economy Changes

« on: January 18, 2014, 04:08:59 pm »

I've never found underrail to ever be easy even taking optimal routes. That might be because I am the kind of person who just likes going for combat and looting but still, in every fight I had to approuch it in an optimal way with an optimal built character and quite frankly the hardest parts usually required a few loads because some enemies just kill you so fast that even optimal builds alone aren't the only thing to take into account.

But that isn't exactly what should be being debated here but rather whether or not we belive the changes to the economy and weight system are good or not.

I already expressed being against it because it restricts the game so much to the point that it isn't fun to play anymore. But that is only my opinion.

359

Development Log / Re: Dev Log #27: Version 0.1.10.0 released

« on: January 17, 2014, 01:45:51 am »

Probably the only one who didn't tried this update yet but the weight system and the merchant changes quite frankly make me not even want to touch it. The reason for this is that if i don't pick every items it will leave a very sour taste in my mouth and I'll just end up disliking the game based on the fact that I cannot take all the items because eitehr I don't have the strenght to carry or the boredom it will be to actually sell everything. It's not that I don'tunderstand what you're trying to do Styg, but at the end of the day I feel this does a lot more harm to the game that good.

It was said before that characters didn't needed lockpick and such in order to get every single item because there were ways to make up for the loss of the income in the forms of crafting and pick pocketing. I'd say that it is still a valid argument to make rather than give all of this restriction that everyone as a RPG player hates.

The reason I am actually unwilling to try this update is not just because I don't want to see how much impact it trully brings, but because I just know that it will get me tired of the game and just make me give up on it and change my opinion of a good game to just not worth my time... I do sincerely hope that this will be addressed in the future and this kind of restrictions removed cause quite frankly I liked this game a lot. No RPG since fallout 2 and arcanum ever got me this level of enjoyment and I'd really like to play this game again in the future.

360

Development Log / Re: Dev Log #26: Alternative Experience System

« on: January 17, 2014, 01:34:24 am »

Quite frankly I'm not a fan of this specifical experience system since to me it makes no sense that killing enemies and completing quests do not award XP .

Elhazzard, but you have to accept as well that the classic xp system makes less sense. Your character shouldn't become better at arming traps by shooting rathounds in the face and delivering documents. Helping an old lady crossing the street should be no substitute of doing your maths homework .

I gave it a try today and the game didn't felt much different. But then again i was already familiar with this system.
As long as the oddities are objects that can provide useful skills and information to the character, i am quite happy with it. I just don't know how much i can learn from a chewing toy. 

Similarly, it doesn't makes sense you can kill stuff better by researching an item... I understand what is trying to be done here and again, I don't really mind the system so long as it's optional. but I feel this system is much worse and much more contrived than the classic system. I also understand that it's rather hard to make up a system that would make 100% sense otherwise you'd only get good at something by doing that something. You'd need a system where ratehr than gaining XP to level up and distribute points, you'd need a system that would award XP to specific skills as you use them. The problem then becomes that you could just be amazing at everything.