Messages

376

General / Re: A bit of Player Data and Pure Opinion

« on: October 21, 2013, 02:36:19 pm »

Yup, i like to discuss things so yeah

Build up towards is the same as say, hurt a lot towards it. While I don't have a decent armor it's just taking a lot of damage and just generally making my game start a whole harder than it has to be and also a whole lot more boring because health hypos drop, but not like candy. Since I play economicly, I do go back for healing and quite frankly going back and forth for free healing is boring as hell, all because I don't have a decent armor. As for armor costs. Metal armor is sold at the junkyard only (and I don't go there before it's time to move there). Also you won't even have the money before GMs. As for the cost... I dunno about you, I never saw it cost any less than 32K (without mercantile)... I am not saying it's not possible to get it bellow, but I never saw it that cheap. Besides they require 9 str to use... I'm sure you can use it without the required str but that will give you further penalties which I'm not sure what they even are.

I have missed that then. I had figured out the rocks in the junkyard had an interact cursor way before I even got that quest but I actually never noticed the ones there. i'll have to go check out that cave sometime just to see what's even there... For the most part I tend to ignore it because rocks have target cursor which is just, shot me for ammo waste.

I once made a character on 7 agillity and I didn't even notice any superior movement over the usual 5 agillity I start with. And yes you need to kite something that weak because if you don't have a very good armor that's 5 attacks per spawn and you can be sure that at least one will be a critical so my experience tells me that each spawn alone is enough to chew down 1/4 to 1/3 of life. That's with a 21/4 armor which you usually get a drop or just buy for cheap. But as for the MP you get... It really is't that high and again, it's MP, the idea of kiting is using only the MP without using the AP... Also yes I did notice at least the rathounds will disengage if they can't see you and reach you for a few turns, i'm sure this behavior is shared by at least a few more enemy types if not all.

I'm sorry but not taking lockpicking or hacking is not acceptable at all. You need to be able to open everything, there isn't even a point in playing if you don't. You're losing loot and possibly access to vital areas. Maybe it's not something that will stop you from finishing the game, but it's still vital access to quests or loot. When a game like this is made, it is centered around loot. Get more loot, get more money, get better in order to deal with what comes next. To say no to more loot just feels contraditory to the game... The amount of loot you miss is really a huge amount of money lost, enough to turn the game into a whole new level of pain.

Stealth is mandatory too. You may say that, you only need it at the beggining and it's not needed past GMS. I'll agree to that but quite frankly. Until I started using stealth I was getting owned at every corner because everything deals an insane amount of damage and there is not enough mitigation early on. The only way to really mitigate damage is by not taking it at all which requires everything to die before it hurts you. Stealth allows you to set up the combat in such way, without it you aren't going to get lucky... As for at which level I need it at... Well, for the current content, yes, around level 11 you don't need more of it. I finish all the content at that level or maybe 12. I had a character go to level 13 but not only did I do the burrower hive which I didn't need to (not that I knew at the time that it was a waste of time and resources) I also activly farmed that level 13 in order to get enough persuasion to save cliff's girlfriend.

EDIT: Just made a character to climb through the rocks and see what's thereand just 2 shrooms. It's a nice thing but at the end of thegday ot that useful of a room since there really isn't more loot other than those 2 shrooms... Still, i suppose 2 shrooms for free isn't bad if you have the agillity to climb over the rocks... Dunno how much is needed since the character I tried with had 10 agi... Quite frankly 10 agi 40 MP is totally not worth it. 3 MP per point agi it seams, definitly not a good trade. I could see maybe a use for it if it was 5 points but then again since enemies are based on abillity scores too it would increase their movement too which in turn would render it back to meh. As for dodging, without an extensive test on agi 10 I can say at best 40% chance... Not really great considering it's a skill investment.

377

Suggestions / Re: Dense Blocks of HP

« on: October 21, 2013, 01:59:44 pm »

Then it would also be good to perhaps change the cooldowns of grenades so that each type has it's own cooldown. So you throw an HE, all other types are still available to throw. The thing about grenades is. I feel (and this is just my opinion) they are adequate to the current content. If I was to throw mark 2 at the depot A I'd just straight give up a non psiker character. I need something to give me the control of what is happening. Be it through long mass stun, fear or just straight mass damage that will outright kill mostly anything. Flashbangs are short lasting. mk2 will not save you in the depot A (bear in mind depot A is about level 8. GMS is finished around level 6, you do a few more side quests enough for a couple levels and then you start depot A). Sniper kills one guy or heavly damages it and then you get mobbed down. Assault rifles can again kill or severely wound one enemy, but that's about it... Non psiker characters have no alternatives to CC and insta-kill nades is what makes them viable, if you remove that possibillity then something else must be done in order to restore balance.

378

General / Re: A bit of Player Data and Pure Opinion

« on: October 20, 2013, 09:53:42 pm »

I don't consider straight damage mitigation for one simple reason. you don't get baddass armor at the beggining, there is no money for that and I don't like investing into constitution either cause there are other places I need the points a lot more, places like perception or will. I always consider first and foremost the skill which will give me the damage output and well, I don't like to bring several abillities low cause sometimes that comes to bite in the ass. That is why I can't consider not taking stealth or try a straight guy who can take the hits because at the beggining I simply can't.

By the time I'm in metal armor, realisticly, I'm already at the junkyard and doing depot A which is the absolute last thing I do.

I don't do hybrid defense builds. I do glass cannons. Stealth isn't a defense for me, it's my way to innitiate combat rather than getting initiated upon. My damage mitigation is minimal but my my spec goes purelly into damage. I don't know if you've watched any of my Let's Play vidios but if you do you'll see my build is pure damage. 10 into will for starting, 7 perception which is more than enough for the crossbow and then get 3 from snooping which will give me full detection for secrets and stuff. Skill wise I always raise my attack skills, no exceptions.

Laying down mines is not really a good thing for me. Too long even with the feat. Mines don't realy do more than a grenade with the added problem that when the enemy actually trips on it (cause most times they notice it with me), it's just one taking damage rather than a large number of them. Mines are only good if your grenades really aren't up to the job. Savescum, agro the pack and see where the pack finishes movement. Load up, set a mine in the general vicinity where no one will trip on it. Throw a grenade and have 2 explosions affect the whole pack.

Even burrowers have lots of MP, not as much but a lot none the less. You may be able to kite them with feats and very high movement and boots to give extra movement if we are talking extremes but don't forget that sprint lasts only for 2 turns then kiting is no longer effective. Also you're doing nothing more than running. Effective kitting means runing, killing the enemies as you run and still not get hit by the enemy cause you're superior movement is enough for all of that.

I don't need to max stealth, but i need to keep it very damn close to max otherwise the enemy will spot instantly. Again take in mind, 5 agillity.

I need max hacking and lockpicking. By the time I get to GMS there are 2 locks I can't even open until I get one more level. Watch the enxt episode of my Let's Play and you'll see that as I hit GMS. Other than that I mostly am on pair with the locks but I invest into it every level.

379

General / Re: A bit of Player Data and Pure Opinion

« on: October 20, 2013, 08:24:32 pm »

I don't think dodge and evasion will save you in the long run. Sure you managed to get up there and kill a few enemies, but if you get to a certain place where there is so many clustered around that they give you no chance other than agro the whole pack and you can't effectivelly kill a big enough number with a single nade. zerg rush ensues and no amount of movement points will save you towards the number of movement points burrowers have.

I personally never used heavy armor, all of my builds are actually no dodge and/or evasion, light to medium armor, stealth and then well, depends on the build, I can't take too much damage either, that much is certain. I can handle a few hits but the idea is killing everything or keep stunlocks or other effects that let me deal with it in due time.

As for diversity. I'll give you a simple example.

Psiker like i'm doing the Let's Play.

3 psiker skills
1 weapon
stealth, hacking and lockpicking
I have 1 point left which really isn't much room at all to do anything cause everything else I picked already is mandatory!

let me give you my trapper example

2 weapon skills
stealth, hacking, lockpicking
traps
I have 2 skills left but one thing I need is persuasion, at least to let me get to a certain point. I need crafting skills for explosives and for weapons... there just isn't enough leeway... Now granted I shouldn't have gone trapper and made space for one extra skill but still!

380

General / Re: evasion and dodge, what is it good for?

« on: October 20, 2013, 08:13:11 pm »

I've tried for a character with high evasion and dodge and what I found out it's that it's not reliable at all. I got at best one out of 3 dodges. Dodge and evasion is not supposed to make you untouchable, they are damage mitigation much like like any armor, thing is, armor reduces damage per attack and dodge/evasion will every now and then make you completly avoid an attack so it kinda balances out how much damage both mitigate.

Here's the thing though (and note this is my personal opinion, not everyone has to see it that way). With an armor, you just put it on and the damage mitigation is there. With dodge and evasion you are effectively wasting skills points.

So is it viable? I suppose it is, but it certainly is a lot worse than just wearing armor... As for mellee as a main focus, I'd say it's not impossible by any streach of the imagination, but it's probably the hardest build. I see mellee working better as an alternative, as your secondary attack type rather than primary.

So if you're idea is making a martial artist... Well it's possible, but you're in for a world of pain.

381

General / Re: A bit of Player Data and Pure Opinion

« on: October 20, 2013, 04:29:57 pm »

It's not really what I'd call a hybrid build. Stealth is for me the start combat button. You don't get to start unless you have some but I don't see a big advantage on having it that high. Sure, agillity gives dodge and evasion bonus but dodge and evasion are not reliable skills unlike armor which will be there in every single attack. More to the point they are 2 extra skills that if you take, are going to leave you hurting elsewhere... Snipe is a better example but you don't really need agillity to further pump snipe, 5 agillity using snipe pretty much kills anything with one shot... Well, maybe a mutant will survive on extremelly low health but that's about it really.

I'd have to say this is a syndrome of not having enough point to diversify enough. When specialisation is required to this point one just has to look at what's aboslutly necessary and what isn't. Sure you can do different builds but I feel they are just much weaker when compared.

382

General / Re: A bit of Player Data and Pure Opinion

« on: October 20, 2013, 02:06:18 pm »

Well what I mean is. Stealth in and of itself isn't really that great. Spec to stealth is a waste in my opinion, so long as you get enough to sneak around in a manner to start combat into your own terms, that's all the stealth that is ever needed. To put points into the stat that gives it more bonus is to waste abillity points in my opinion. 5 is just about enough not to get penalties and still have a decent value that will allow anyoe to start combat in their own terms.

As for the sniper rifle... Really? I've never seen one for sale after the GMS even after several playthroughs. I also never would have the money to buy one even if it was for sale cause they are stupidly expensive. Sure after doing a few more missions, doing the first bits of depot A I can afford it but never before that.

383

General / Re: A bit of Player Data and Pure Opinion

« on: October 19, 2013, 10:34:26 pm »

I imagine you have pumped up the abillity that increases stealth. keep that skill at 5 and try again to see if it's possible. Also how in the hell do you have a sniper gun at this point? Anyone starting a clean game should not have that gun under any circunstances. Let's keep it realistic and say you get at best an SMG.

384

Let's Plays / Re: Let's Play by Elhazzared

« on: October 19, 2013, 02:26:52 pm »

Bump to warn of another part being uploaded. Links will always be in the first post.

385

Suggestions / Re: Dense Blocks of HP

« on: October 18, 2013, 03:10:43 pm »

The XP is nice, but I don't care that much for those extra bits of XP if I have to waste a lot of skill points I need elsewhere just to gain the XP. I don't find it that much of a tactical option because while I recognise the potential, I have not seen a situation where I wouldn't best deal with it in some other way and even though stealth helps, the arming time is long and enemies getting close might notice you due to the long waiting time. As for the feat... It lowers a bit and a bit helps but ultimatly it's still a long time. Anything longer than 2 seconds is an incredibly long time in which you can very easly be pulled out of stealth.

As for enemies not seeying the traps. It is weird because traps that are part of the map already are never seen by the enemy and they trip on it, but I've found out that whenever I put a mine in the path of the enemy, 9 out of 10 times he just goes around it as if he knew it was there... Again it's not completly useless cause again you can make a chain reaction of explosions but if anything mines should take less materials because they are much more limited in use when compared to a grenade. Even when the enemy trips on the mine. Grats, a whole mine with a big blast radius for one enemy only... Meh. Caltrops make much better use of an area denial weapon, the only real disadvantage is that you can't remove them to pass through... There should be a way to be able to pass through them or to remove them from your path, even if you had to say, spend a little bit of time, like disarming a mine only that the difference is picking 'em up or pushing them aside. So it wouldn't be viable in combat but out of combat it's ok.

386

General / Re: A bit of Player Data and Pure Opinion

« on: October 18, 2013, 03:01:22 pm »

Ah so it works as I though it would... Good!

387

Suggestions / Re: Dense Blocks of HP

« on: October 18, 2013, 11:55:07 am »

Well to be honest they can oneshot but it's not guaranteed. On the playthrough I did with my gunner/grenadier/trapper girl I made I used it once on 3 humans, 2 died, one was left alive with 1/5 of life. On the muties and dogs in depot A it almost always killed everything. On mutated dogs I had about a 50% kill ratio with every throw. What survived survived on very low health, never more than 30 but there seams to still be a decent survivabillity against it on mutated dogs.

Mines are in my current opinion not worth it as they are. They take double the resources, they take a lot of time to place down, most of the times even on max skills the enemies can see them anyway. they are just less useful and more resource consuming. The only way that I found out mines to be worth it is whenever you don't have the firepower to deal with a certain number of enemies. You put a mine in a predictable path where it will blow up on everyone's face (especially easier with savescuming) and then agro them into the proximity of the mine, throw a grenade and have 2 simultaneous explosions dealing damage... However that is something that is incredibly rare to need doing and not very viable in many situations.

388

Suggestions / Re: GMS Station Vault

« on: October 18, 2013, 11:42:21 am »

I belive they do Styg cause otherwise what happens is. First time someone spends hours and hours just trying to get in there and kill everything. After that they will feel immensly frustated and cheated of all the time and hard work they put towards dealing with it. The XP you get is nice, but it's not even worth one level and quite frankly if you're not a psiker, then it's not worth by any streach of the imagination with the amount of money you're going to be throwing at them in the form of grenades and bullets. From there on that place is just gonna be ignored and then it might as well not exist in the first place... This is why risk/reward is necessary. Now you don't need to make the highest risk always give the best stuff. Sometimes it even makes sense that a less risky stuff gives better rewards so long as you make the whole thing make sense. but high risk should always have high reward otherwise there is no incentive to do it in the first place which just makes it pointless to even have it in the first place.

For a vault, that room is incredibly small, vaults that are soposed to keep stuff safe, like real vaults are not just big, they are huge! They need to have the required space to store anything inside be it big or small and also large quantities of whatever... Those blast doors (as I like to call them) where already in place before the burrowers because they wouldn't have the time to build them as they showed up, this much is obvious so the place was already very secure before the burrowers showed up which means again, the vault existed, only that it never was much of a vault in the first place. The only thing that could be said for is all the anti-hacking precautions taken by Omega as a later adition.

Now I did spoke of it but I will again. From a logic point of view there wouldn't be a way for the burrowers to ding in through the walls. It that was possible then why would a door stop them? They's just dig through the walls again and infestate the whole base and no station would ever be secure against them as nothing could be done to stop them from diging in. it is more logic to assume that the recent earthquake was what broke the wall and allowed for the burrowers to move in.

389

Suggestions / Re: GMS Station Vault

« on: October 18, 2013, 09:11:11 am »

As I said earlier Idioticus. That place after the doors open is not the vault, it's more like a pre-room to the vault. The room is incredibly small to actually be a vault and the passage to the hive indicates that it's not a hole in the wall but a corridor or a stairway to the vault itself.

Alo yes it is said there is valuable stuff, both directly and implicitly. In the first place you're toldd that you're going there to grab some stuff that was left there when it was abandoned (I'm not sure of the words Gorsky used exactly but pretty much it's said there). Now implicitly let's look at things from this angle. The station's resources are streached thin. You have almost every guard and people working on the colapsed tunel. You have only a few to guard the other passage, and the lower rail passage is guarded by one guy and a sentry. there is also only one guy to guard the cave's passage that gives access to the junkyard... And that is how thinly streached your station's forces are and then they are going to send armed people which by all right should be helping guarding the base when their military is this thinly streached, to search the GMS for stuff. This implies they know there is very valuable stuff there which would be of great need to the station which would make it very valuable.

390

Suggestions / Re: Dense Blocks of HP

« on: October 17, 2013, 11:52:46 pm »

Well, not everything. Mutants do survive even mk5 grenades but for the most part grenades are one shots, first mission they will oneshot any rathound or the guy guarding the top left house with his 2 rathounds. But's that's all they can do. The moment you head up towards GMS even the first 3 bandits only take about 50% health damage from it. A mk2 will probably kill them or severely wound (didn't really test this though) and anything in the GMS except for the bots.

On the junkyard a mk3 will heavly damage any humans or dogs on average, with luck it will kill but usually it doesn't. An mk4 will kill anything short of a mutant. An mk5 will heavly damage a mutant.

I dunno Styg, this feels pretty right to me.