Messages

46

Bugs / [1.3.0.20] Minor bug with Grover still not fixed.

« on: December 28, 2017, 03:02:44 am »

Update on the bug about the Grover / Treasa showdown quest being left incomplete in the Notes tab:

Well, damn. I thought that was fixed with the release of 1.3.0.19, but apparently I didn't do my QA testing well enough. Sorry, gang.
See http://steamcommunity.com/app/250520/discussions/1/1621724915796437785/ for details.

As I outline in my post to that thread, the crux of the bug lies with Grover's dialogue after Treasa's death.

If option 1 ("We're done.") is selected, the quest is marked as complete and everything proceeds normally. Grover gives his "favorite extortioner" line and all is good. The problem of his dialogue restarting from the beginning is not present. It's all fixed.

If option 2 ("No, not quite. ...") is selected or Grover is killed without any dialogue being initiated, then the quest is left incomplete in the Notes tab. Grover is obviously dead, so nothing more serious than that happens, thankfully.

Also, if you kill Treasa, take the core, and then just walk away without talking to Grover, the quest is left incomplete. So, really, the only way to "complete" the quest is to talk to Grover after killing Treasa and select option 1 (assuming that you don't spare them both or whatever).

Hopefully this time the bug can finally be fixed so I don't have to resurrect this thread for the third time. xD

47

General / Re: Post your experiences with the new Dominating difficulty!

« on: December 27, 2017, 05:03:21 pm »

Ok first some definition:
Dodge/Evasion build - a build with max dodge and evasion, low armor penalty (preferably 0% w/ Nimble) and high AGI
Viable dodge/evasion build - able to survive most encounter out in the open using dodge and evasion, without resorting to other tricks like quick tinkering + bear trap + line of sight abuse. Obviously dodge/evasion does nothing to psi but you should be able to dodge/evade aim shots, burst and shock bolt w/ confidence.

Gotcha. Yeah, with those definitions, it does not seem like one is able to achieve a "viable dodge/evasion build" on Dominating difficulty, at least not without significant power-leveling on Classic.

However, if overall survivability is what you're after, it is important that you don't neglect use of Uncanny Dodge and Sprint + Evasive Maneuvers, which (let's be honest) provide Dodge & Evasion builds with most of their end-game power. I do not consider the usage of either feat to be "cheating" in any way, as they are included within the game and intended for use by Dodge & Evasion builds.

It may not be possible for a 52 effective dodge character to completely avoid every single attack from a rathound on Dominating, but with Uncanny Dodge, they most certainly can dodge everything that gets thrown at them. At 52 effective Dodge, you can dodge 3 melee attacks in a row for one turn, guaranteed. At 135 effective Dodge, the bonus becomes 6 guaranteed dodges for one turn. Similarly, an AGI 10 character with Sprint (for a total of 75 movement points), will get a bonus of 225 Evasion from Evasive Maneuvers for one turn. Granted, most battles are unlikely to last for just one turn, but you cannot deny that these bonuses provide significant survivability for any character.

So I would encourage you to continue your testing with an Uncanny Dodge / Evasive Maneuvers character, and determine the "true viability" from there. I'm doing the same with my own character, but my SMG build only allows for 8 AGI, and I'm not bothering with Nimble or 0% Armor Penalty. And, of course, I have some other tricks up my sleeve.

I see Evasion helping somewhat against midgame enemies, like Camp Hathor burrowers. Mitigates about half the shots. My current value is 211.

How many punches does Grover miss out of 20 or more, if you can check? Can we take assumptions on Grover's Melee skill from his bare first damage? Better the sample count (i.e. hits taken), better the estimate we can make. Statistics don't lie.

Yeah, I have to agree with Twiglard here. Some more statistics would be helpful in providing a more representative outlook on the viability of Dodge & Evasion builds on Dominating difficulty.

48

Suggestions / Re: Firing off a shot

« on: December 26, 2017, 10:38:12 pm »

+1 for this. I cannot tell you how many times I have had to waste a grenade just to move some NPCs out of the way or to get some enemies' attention. Even if you just made it so we could target the floor tiles like we do for AoE attacks, that would work fine.

49

Development Log / Re: Dev Log #56: Experimental Branch with Version 1.0.3.13

« on: December 26, 2017, 10:34:19 pm »

Knowing that this 1.0.3 update is coming, I have not moved beyond the SGS/Junktown/GMS starting area, because I heard that many zones will be updated. Someone mentioned that zones you haven't been to yet are the ones that are updated by the update.

Is this true? I haven't moved to Camp Hathor yet, because I want those (and all other) zones to be created by the maps from the new update. Is this the right idea? Should I hold off on venturing beyond the pre-Depot A areas until the update is officially released?

Or does this have no bearing on the maps, and I should just go to Camp Hathor now?

You mind as well just update to 1.0.3.20 now and be done with it. The Experimental Build, despite its name, is very stable in its current iteration, and--as Hazard mentioned--any serious bugs are swiftly patched by the devs upon them being reported.

There are new zones that have been added in the Lower Caves between SGS, Junkyard, and Camp Hathor, so it's not just the Lower Underrail metro area that has been updated for the map. However, these new zones are nothing more than empty connector maps meant to fill the space between existing rooms (at least as far as the Lower Caves are concerned), so don't worry about having a ton of content behind you that you'll have to re-visit in order to map out. I can tell you now with confidence that it's really nothing to worry about.

Regarding what zones are and are not updated, it is my understanding that everything is retroactively updated once you download the update, regardless of whether you have already visited it or not.

tl;dr :: You mind as well just download 1.0.3.20 now from the Steam Experimental Build and be done with it. Your character will be fine. Don't worry about it. If you're not sure how to download the Experimental Build, there are instructions on the Steam forums somewhere. Or you can just ask for help here and I can explain it. It's a fairly easy process.

50

General / Re: Best XP system with Dominating

« on: December 26, 2017, 10:21:26 pm »

Classic is definitely better overall for Dominating. However, if you're playing an SMG burst-fire character like me, and you can't afford to waste hundreds of bullets on enemies that you would otherwise just stealth past on Oddity, just to get some experience from them, then Classic can actually put you at a disadvantage.

But, if you don't have to deal with the severe ammo considerations that a SMG gunner does, then Classic is the way to go.

51

General / Re: Post your experiences with the new Dominating difficulty!

« on: December 26, 2017, 10:17:03 pm »

I don't think dodge/evasion is viable on dominating oddity mode as the early game will destroy you. I'm wondering if it's viable w/ the aid of jumping bean + high level gear + adrenaline + boxing gloves on XP mode but still very far from getting access to Core City.

I don't know how you're defining a "dodge/evasion" build, but my own experiences with Dominating suggest that a lightly armored build is definitely viable, especially if you take Uncanny Dodge and Evasive Maneuvers. Yeah, if you're basing your entire build off of 0% Armor Penalty w/ R.R. or Leather Armor + Nimble, then you're going to get totally wrecked in the early game, but at Armor Penalty ≤ %50 with Dodge & Evasion, you can get through every fight without having to reload more than a few times. It is "Dominating" difficulty, after all -- it's meant to dominate you -- so a little save-scumming is to be expected. If you're talking about doing an Ironman run, then I don't expect you'll be able to win with anything other than a 10 CON sniper build, or something equally ridiculous. IDK, that's just a guess; I'm not insane enough to seriously test out builds for an Dominating Ironman run.

Presently, I'm still rocking the 3 CON SMG build that I mentioned when I started this thread, and as it is, I'm fairly confident that I can at least beat the game with it. As it is, I've finished everything in Junkyard, Camp Hathor, and Rail Crossing, and I'm working my way through Foundry & Core City as we speak. However, the build is far from reliable, and my overall success with it hinges on three main utilities:

1.) The ability to craft W2C bullets with 20 Chemistry. This is the crux on which the entire build rests. With how tanky everything is on Dominating (and the fact that you're fighting end-game enemies at level 7), it is absolutely necessary for me to be able to burst out an entire clip of W2C ammo every battle. Graphite is now more precious than gold. Sadly, without Mercantile, it is a rare commodity, indeed.

2.) Quick Tinkering & bear traps. If the W2C ammo doesn't make this build viable, the bear traps do. With 3 CON and only a Q100 Galvanic Overcoat, the ability to immobilize my opponents and then hide behind a corner has allowed me to survive fights where it's not 1v1 against a melee fighter (thanks, Uncanny Dodge). Death Stalkers are actually impossible for me to kill without Quick Tinkering, W2C, and molotovs. Also, on the note of Death Stalkers, I know that Dominating difficulty is supposed to be insane, Styg, but did you have to put seven of these f-ckers in lux-b4?? And don't even get me started on lux-a6x! Screw the Upper Caves!!

3.) Molotovs. Especially when fighting the Rathound King, these guys were essential. Combined with Quick Tinkering and the ability to burst-fire 20+ rounds of W2C per turn, and I can take out almost any enemy in the game in 2 turns or less. I haven't finished the Kill the Beast quest yet, though, so the Bladelings may kill my build like they always do. Especially if the rumors I have heard about the new waves are true.

So yeah, my 3/10/7/3/7/3/7 SMG build is viable when paired with constant W2C bullet-crafting, Quick Tinkering, and Molotovs. 100+ Stealth is helping out a lot, too. Lunatics are still a pain in the ass, but that's not really new. Burrowers are a joke, though, which is not something I'm used to. I never thought that I would be able to burst down a Burrower Warrior in one turn at level 11. That was a humbling experience -- for the burrowers!

All in all, my experiences would seem to suggest that a dodge & evasion build @ ≤ 50% Armor Penalty is actually viable (at least on an SMG gunner with Quick Tinkering).

52

Bugs / Re: [1.3.0.18] Minor bugs with Grover and Cliff

« on: December 20, 2017, 06:16:42 am »

I guess the power of love saves him?

Maybe she is a doctor? 

Or a love doctor?


♪Doctor, doctor, give me the news. I've got a bad case of lovin' you!♫

53

Bugs / Re: [1.3.0.18] Minor bugs with Grover and Cliff

« on: December 19, 2017, 04:39:41 pm »

I can confirm that the bug with the Grover/Treasa showdown has been fixed as of 1.3.0.19.

Regarding Cliff, since his bleed wound disappears when you save Jenny, it looks like you no longer need the Doctor feat in order to save him; you just need to enter the burrower den and save Jenny before he dies from his wounds. I guess the power of love saves him?

Hmm... maybe the issue with Cliff wasn't really a bug after all?

Well, whatever. It's a happy ending, so I'm okay with it.

54

Bugs / Re: Report spelling/grammar errors

« on: December 18, 2017, 04:40:45 am »

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1235240950

Pretty sure that is supposed to be Tanner talking.

55

Bugs / [1.3.0.18] Minor bugs with Grover and Cliff

« on: December 17, 2017, 03:10:34 am »

Bug 1:

Once Grover tells you about Treasa and brings her into the back alley, you have the option of going up and initiating dialogue with the pair before attacking. However, if you don't want to deal with the initiative roll, an easier way is to just kill Treasa and take the Plasma Core without starting up the dialogue.

Unfortunately, this appears to bug out the game in the current patch, such that after you leave the alley with the core, Grover spawns back in his house, his health is refilled, and he has the exact same dialogue as he did before. You can even intimidate him again, at which point he'll mention Treasa again, and disappear back into the alley. Since Treasa is already dead, Grover won't actually spawn in the alley if you go over to check, and will instead spawn back in his house after the transition, at which point you can do the dialogue over again with the same result.

Ultimately, this is a minor bug, because you can still turn in the quest as usual, with no other noticeable effects. Treasa remains dead, but Grover remains unfriendly, and the quest is not marked off in the quest-log as completed. You can still proceed with the Black Eels quest-line.

Bug 2:

Normally, if you go down into the burrower den outside Junkyard to save Jenny without healing Cliff using the Doctor feat, he will be dead by the time you leave with Jenny. However, when I saved Jenny on the current patch, Cliff was not dead after the automatic dialogue transition. Cliff and Jenny than argued for a while about Cliff leaving her down there, as they usually do if you save Cliff, but since I hadn't actually healed him, his health was still ticking down from the bleed wound. What this meant was that Jenny got to watch her boyfriend slowly bleed to death for three minutes. But you still get the XP (and you can loot him!), so the difference is really only an emotional one. Poor Jenny...

This is a minor bug for sure, but still a bug nonetheless. I managed to get a screenshot, too, in case you're interested: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1233992715

Oh, I should also mention that both of these bugs were encountered on Dominating difficulty.

56

General / Re: Meet Lenox pierce presenting the evidence

« on: December 14, 2017, 06:50:12 pm »

I don't know if it's just with this patch, but I can't seem to convince Lenox with the evidence I've presented, no matter which order I select. I've read the patient records, the spectre archive, I've done the autopsy and know how Pierce was killed, but Lenox doesn't seem convinced.

IIRC, there is one dialogue option that you don't want to select when you're presenting the evidence. It's the one about the thermometer, because that has nothing to do with Pierce's death.

Also, did you read the morgue inventory to discover that one of the surgical needles is missing? That's another piece of evidence that you need to present. Also, there's the fact that Mordre was one of the Spectres, which you discover by talking to Oskar in Core City.

The wiki page on that quest ( http://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Meet_Lenox_Pierce ) has a really nice checklist, so you may want to check that out if you haven't already.

57

General / Re: Post your experiences with the new Dominating difficulty!

« on: December 12, 2017, 12:37:00 pm »

I started an energy weapons char and I've never used so much bear traps in my life. Quick tinkering + bear traps + incendiary/frag grenades + abuse LOS (usually in a room, micromanage trapped enemy health so I don't kill him before my quick tinkering cool down) is a must. Obviously you won't get an energy weapon right from the start so I used a 7.62 Jaguar SMG + .44 Hammerer pistol for my early game.

I had to use unlimited weight cheat using cheat engine because bear traps are so heavy. My justification is this: this is exactly the same as if I just run back to SGS every time I'm out of bear traps and slowly walk back to my original location - no point.

Yeah, I've been using bear traps like crazy, too. I was finally able to get past the Newton quest with them, but without quick tinkering it's very difficult to place down enough bear traps to immobilize all of the enemies before they notice me. Not to mention the issues of weight and price. I'm already spending all my money on bullets, as it is.

Crowd control skills in general are clearly a must for Dominating. I must be the patron saint of incendiary grenades at this point; it's pretty much my only rathound repellent.

Also, is it just me, or is the oddity drop rate severely reduced from what it was? It has become very difficult for me to level up in the early game.

Even with bear traps and all the incendiary grenades in the world, I still doubt that SMG is viable for Dominating, especially on Oddity. Perhaps someone with more skill, time, and patience than me could do it, but I sure as hell can't.

58

General / Post your experiences with the new Dominating difficulty!

« on: December 12, 2017, 03:17:15 am »

I figured that it would be nice for us to have a place where we can post about how much the new difficulty is wrecking us, and maybe have a place where players can go (outside the Dev Log) to get some tips & tricks to conquer the new mode.

So far, the only build that I've had time to try is a 3/10/7/3/7/3/7 (original allotment at lvl 1) pure SMG build on Oddity mode, and I'm fairly confident that it's impossible for me to even beat Depot A with it. xD

I knew from the beginning that it was going to be a train-wreck, since it's a very fragile build early on, but I wanted to try it out anyway. I didn't think it would be this bad, though.

Presently, I'm at level 3 and I can't even kill all of the psi beetles and save Newton. The little buggers gang up on me and I'm dead in two turns. Every enemy takes at least two full bursts to kill, and I'm just going through my 7.62 ammo like crazy. Totally unsustainable in the long run. Just to clear the 8 azuridae in Newton's building requires something like 300 7.62 bullets fired from my puny SMG because I can't afford to buy one. Junkyard is of little help, either.

And don't even get me started on Silent Isle. My boy Broderick decided that it would be a good idea to shoot at the psi beetles for some weird reason, and then he aggro'd over the Goliath, which promptly used every psi skill in the book to wreck him in 2 turns. Dumbass. It would have been hilarious if it didn't leave me trapped on the island.

So, yeah, 3 CON SMG Oddity is a no-go for Dominating mode. I think even with 7+ CON it would be unsustainable. The ammo requirement is just too much for burst builds when the enemies have soooo much HP. Maybe if I ground some levels off of the Rathounds long enough to get Commando and Spec Ops (on Classic, of course), I MIGHT be able to beat Depot A, but I would surely crash and burn in DC if I ever made it that far.

Granted, a lot of my issues probably came from the build itself and the fact that I'm definitely not the best Underrail player in the world, but hey, it sounded more interesting than a LoC psi build.

What about you guys? How is the new difficulty treating you so far? Has anyone beat it yet? (looking at you, destroyor )

I expect that, if anyone does end up beating it, it'll be with a sniper build or a LoC psi build. Or maybe a crit brawler, if you can survive the early game?

59

Bugs / Re: [1.0.3.13] Newton does not survive being saved

« on: December 09, 2017, 05:34:09 am »

Maybe Newton died from sheer fright because he was too much of a wussy to handle the new difficulty level? 

60

Bugs / [1.0.3.13] Lucas does not give .44 Pistol even if Persuasion check is passed.

« on: December 08, 2017, 04:01:14 pm »

As the title suggests, Lucas will not give the player a .44 Pistol even if the Persuasion check is passed. He will provide the proper dialogue, and will "give you back your gun" in green-text, but no .44 will actually appear in your inventory.