Messages

106

General / Re: Let's talk about new PSI System!

« on: March 28, 2015, 06:40:07 am »

Now that stasis is 45 and pyrokinesis is 50, I think it may be best to completely forego metathermics on a pure will character.  Anyone have the same feeling?  You need electrokinesis for bots if you have no combat skills, and you need thought control because.. well thought control.  I'd rather stick the points into throwing or dodge or crafting.  Not to say metathermics is bad these days, just bad on a 10+ will character.  I can totally see it being used on any other character.

107

Bugs / Re: 0.1.14 bugs

« on: March 28, 2015, 06:36:00 am »

Possibly an old bug that hasn't gotten fixed.  Got a crash during assault on eddie in junkyard.  Hit space bar a few times, leading to "battle mode ending" and I watched my allies go at it in real time.  However, within a few seconds, maybe 3, an enemy popped into my view, and the game crashed, possibly because battle started again before an actual 6 second turn passed.

108

General / Re: Post You build :)

« on: March 27, 2015, 11:45:58 pm »

Absolutely   But yes, with the build you described, I would go 3 will.  It will mean telepunch will fail on heavy armored folks, though, so watch out!  The increased damage on cryo is not worth will investment, although it will mean cryokinesis of very little worth.  Cryostasis, otoh, will still be just as good

109

General / Re: Blitz + fancy footwork

« on: March 27, 2015, 11:33:35 pm »

Well.. I think all you'd need to do is have a minimum cost of action of 2.  Then the chain reaction isn't quite so spectacular.

110

General / Re: Blitz + fancy footwork

« on: March 27, 2015, 11:08:44 pm »

Nope I got it

Adrenaline, 70 attacks with unarmed.  Blitz.  !!!! attacks.  WHEEE!

111

General / Re: Post You build :)

« on: March 27, 2015, 11:00:50 pm »

Well, CC for psi generally means either going 3 will (for irrestables) or 10+( for LoC and resistables).  Just how it works really.  The rest is up to you.  With the new feats, it depends on how you want to play.  There's always two main ways to play underrail.

A) Tank things.  Heavy armor + con.

B) Never get hit (stealth and run)

The new feats also allow for

C) Light armor and evasion + 10 con or 7 dex (really 10 con)

112

Development Log / Re: Dev Log #38: Version 0.1.14.0 released

« on: March 27, 2015, 10:35:28 pm »

Oh I was thinking that psi booster thing was also int.  Yeah I guess not.  But still it does pretty much make 5 int necessary for kickass mufflers

Edit: Ah I see, dex also has an immobilize removal.

Also just noticed this from the devlog:

"NPCs now use EMP grenades; you've been warned"

yikes

113

General / Blitz + fancy footwork

« on: March 27, 2015, 10:30:07 pm »

I think this one slipped past the playtesting

Edit: OTOH getting 800 movement points sounds pretty fun...

114

Development Log / Re: Dev Log #38: Version 0.1.14.0 released

« on: March 27, 2015, 10:19:04 pm »

It feels like things are going to get a lot more polarized.  With thick skull, hammer and perception builds don't need LoC for not dropping dead, so they're going to go full guns or full hammer.  For will, you can't afford not having the intp, so they can't afford to go hammer or perception for a backup weapon.

115

General / Re: Let's talk about new PSI System!

« on: March 27, 2015, 10:03:29 pm »

I don't think anyone's complaining, just talking about it.  Honestly, non-psi users might be more interesting now that thick skull suddenly made light armor "non-subterfuge, non-psi" builds not terrible.

Edit: ugh, this is awful.. I want to playtest psi, but I think the other builds are more interesting lol

116

General / Re: Let's talk about new PSI System!

« on: March 27, 2015, 09:59:04 pm »

Well punch can be quite potent with the force user feat but yeah 50 is way too high.  Kinda surprised that electro is considered spam, as it is a free stun every turn.  If the aim is to make all psi users feel the pain, they should switch electro and punches' costs, as this also hits psycho builds without.. feeling weird xD  On the other hand, that would make killing dreadnaughts with a pure psi build literally impossible so... I dunno lol.

Pyro kinesis.. I dunno that seems high.  I get that it can seriously mess with people if you have the pyro feat... but still.  It is very luck based since maybe nobody gets flamed :/  On the other hand, a metathermics psi band with muffler can cut that down quite a bit for those who like metathermics feats.

Anyways, looks like electronics/biology and int 7 is a staple now for pure psi.  Can't not have a muffler xD

117

Development Log / Re: Dev Log #38: Version 0.1.14.0 released

« on: March 27, 2015, 09:28:43 pm »

Wow thick skull, heavyweight.. heavy armor builds without locus of control might actually be good :O  That opens up a lot!

Goood workan!

Edit: heh.. sure step... the "I can't get past Depot A" feat xD

And neurology... looks like every psi-focused character is getting 7 int.

These new feats are really going to change the way way non-pistol/dex builds work.

Hmmm... I think maybe thick skull should be easier to get?  It kinda sucks that the only players that don't want that are the absolute "never let anyone hit you ever" builds, as this allows light armor characters to not drop dead at a single stun.

118

Suggestions / High int = skills

« on: March 27, 2015, 09:11:48 pm »

So, I've suggested somewhere that int should work similar to dex for skills, with above 5 base giving 5 skill points for each point.  However, I think this is a pretty good idea, so I'll expand on the reasoning for why this particular amount and why it does not make for prohibitively powerful or unvaried builds.

-Reason for implementation:  Most new players seem to enjoy the stealth builds, judging by every builds topic.  Stealth builds generally have a surplus of ability points and a deficit in skills.  With heavy armor, you can reasonably play the game with only three or 4 skills; with stealth builds, you have to balance crafting (5 skill choices), subterfuge (5 more), defense (2 more), combat or psi (2 or even 3 per build are useful).  That's not even counting the fluffy diplomat skills.  That's a lot!  And since stealth builds are arguably harder to play than just bulldozing things in a tin can, I think they deserve another option for designing builds.

Additionally, int currently serves no purpose.  Literally.  All skills are linked to some ability score, with will actually being linked to almost as much as int.  However, those abilities also do something, even at high levels.  High Strength and Con have vital importance to heavy builds.  High agility can profoundly influence the defensive capabiltiies of light armor builds that have locus of control, as well as increase snipe damage on a pure sniper, as well as giving enough movement points to hit and run people.  Dex and perception also profoundly influence damage on most builds.  And all of them have feats at medium or high levels.

Intelligence.. really doesn't do anything.  It should have some affect like the other skills where "If I add more points I get something extremely important"


-Reason for "above 5":  This effect should only apply to intelligent focused builds, i.e. crafting, diplomat, subterfuge.  As such, it should not give "cheap shot/expose weakness" builds any benefit at all unless they want to further develop into int.  It actually works out quite nicely, since a single int after those int feats lets the additional skill benefit kick in, giving no "breakpoint" for which int is much more powerful.

-Amount:  Most builds have about 4-7 "core" skills (stealth, evasion, combat, feat skills) which profoundly increase their ability to perform, with additional skills only being "nice".  Therefore, I believe the amount should be pretty high.

At a one int per one slot, this amounts to 3 skills at 8 int, which is great, but also means over half of the skills are not used, allowing for varied builds at even very high int.  Even builds with 10 int will not be able to, for example, take all the speach, subterfuge skills, or craft skills.

Additionally, this will never result in the theoretical "cannot spend all skill points" as that would require 22 - 8 = 14 bonus skills, or 19 int, which would take only be possible at level 36.

-Build variety:  This would only significantly affect two build types: stealth pure melee and stealth pure sniper (stealth psi will probably end up going con).  In other words, builds where a high intelligence and variety of skills feels right, and builds that are already have to invest tons in subterfuge.  Even if these builds go 10 int, they will still hurt for skill points!

All other builds cannot afford a very high int, and would only be able to afford one or two extra skill slots, but due to the 5 int requirement, most will choose 0 extra skill slots.  How much above 5 they choose is what may actually add even more build variety, as there is now a new option to explore on the ability point range.

Edit: hrm.. now with 1.14 out... I can still see the need for this as int above 7 does nothing whereas other less useful abilities like agility above 7 does something (movement and evasion).  But perhaps the numbers could use work, like instead of "int above 5 = 5 skills" it could be "int above 7 = 6 skills"  But the original numbers could work too *shrug*

119

General / Re: Post You build :)

« on: March 27, 2015, 08:09:33 pm »

Hey, I'll critique your build, then show you some of mine

So here's what I think:

-stats:  Stats are fine, stealth sniper builds really can do whatever imo, I'm assuming you also have 5 strength since the wiki erroneously states that dragunov still has no strength req, it's 5 now.

-skills: you probably only want 40 cryo, 30 psycho if you're doing a minimal psi build.  This gives you electrokinesis, which is necessary when telepunch starts failing due to lack of skill, and the 40 gives you premeditation, for the free electrokinesis.  High cryo is unnecessary, as stasis is irresistable!

Evasion is great but dodge is always sketchy.   It's awesome, but so is skill points, which are hard to come by on stealth characters.  This is especially true for snipers, as the only true need for dodge is if you get surprised, but with max perception, this should never happen if you have detection goggles while running around.

You're better off taking dodge to 40 and taking uncanny dodge, then ditch dodge, if you must have dodge.

So those are the unnecesessaries, some skills you might consider to replace them:

-throwing: good on every character
-lock&hack: great for questionable combat stealth builds.  Sniper is somewhat lacking in combat compared to pistol dex builds
-traps: can somewhat make up for lack of L&H and is compacted into one skill
-mechanics: the one crafting to take if you don't need other crafting usually
-biology: up to 70ish is a nice "half skill" for anyone

Feats:

-shroomhead=barf
-hypothermia= eh... used to be goodish, not anymore.  Now that psi is getting nerfed, hopefully it can get reverted with just a higher psi cost

needs:
-premeditation

If you want a more combat oriented character that can also snipe, go for a pistol stealth build, but that requires massive dex investment.

Anyways, here's some builds I've tried:

Tank builds-

"braindead"

9 str
9 con
10 perc (to 13 ish)

skills: whatever tbh, non-psi tank basically has infinite freedom with skills.  I think I went triple psi anyways for the lulz.
critical feats: full auto, sharpshooter, conditioning

Notes: Dragunov in one hand, heavy assault in other.

"magic braindead"

9 str
9 con
10 will

skills: biology, electronics, triple psi, intimidation, throwing, chemistry bit of other junk
feats: condition, psi feats

Notes: Has trouble with bots, especially in beginning.

"psi grenadier"

6 dex
10 con (all non will points go here)
10 will (to 13 ish)
5 int

skills: throwing(not quite max), mechanics, biology (70 with synergy), chem (112),electronics, tailoring(not quite max) triple psi
feats: grenadier, conditioning, psi (considered the free bolt crossbow feat)

Notes: Uses heavy armor (lol). Has trouble with.... >>BIG<< bots

Stealth:

I've tried a few but I can never remember exactly how they go. 

"first stealth build"

5str
7 agility
10 perc
5 int (actually went 9 for testing purposes, wanted to see how bad high crafting was.  Is bad)
rest whatever


skills:Guns, throwing, mech, electronics, 40psycho,35 cryo, stealth, L&H, no evasion or dodge(!)
feats: interloper, premed, that electronics crafting one,+obvious perc

Also trying a melee stealth build which is doing awesome currently, although I've stopped since learning the new build is coming.

120

General / Re: Gotta love enrage

« on: March 17, 2015, 01:09:54 am »

Well, having done all that, I'm betting anyone can do this.  The tricks seems to be doing exactly not what I did lol.  There's not a single stunner/immobilizer in the entire area, and the bots use w2c ammo, so I'm betting a high con light armor build is way better -.-  Those silly cans lack finesse. 

And those dreadnoughts treat 98% mechanical resistance like it's wallpaper.

But yeah, psionics is critical for reasons in the first post   That was hilarious fun.  You don't want a dozen dudes with high explosive grenades in the fight.

Edit: then again, maybe you guys can't with the impending psi nerf.  Bwahahaha!