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Messages - bati

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76
General / Re: Death Stalkers are a bit unfun
« on: January 10, 2018, 02:22:43 am »
Also, I don't know if NV turned on help to detect stealthied targets faster in dark caves, wanted to ask this long ago, like years.

I remember reading somewhere that light levels affect detection but don't quote me on that. I always use NVGs when hunting stealthed targets, didn't notice much difference though.

77
General / Re: Death Stalkers are a bit unfun
« on: January 09, 2018, 08:42:22 am »
What's frustrating about them is that even at level ~18, with maxed dodge, Nimble and wearing Tabi boots I can't seem to dodge their initial sting, at all.
Buff from Stealth Mode "When attacking in melee from stealth, target's dodge rating will be ignored if it hasn't detected you yet".
What's worse, on my other character with 12 PER I don't even begin to spot them (not even the non-targetable shadow outline) before I get attacked.
Detection Googles really helps here.

Even if I hit them with the flare and remove their stealth I still can't dodge the sting. I think their high level simply weighs the rolls too much in their favor.

As for detection goggles...yeah, sure, but since I already have 12 PER I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that it does something at least. This wouldn't be an issue if high level enemies were exclusive to endgame areas but you can get them as early as camp hathor or when exploring upper caves. So you go one cave fighting pigs and warthogs and then death stalkers in the next. I distinctly remember having to fight 4 in a single cell near one of the abandoned warehouses in the NE part of the upper caves. Without Quick Tinkering I don't think I would've been able to clear that area, at least not without getting ~6 more levels at the time.

78
General / Re: underrail.info.tm
« on: January 09, 2018, 06:08:13 am »
What's going on with Force User? Wiki also lists apparently old info and I can't find anything about the patchnotes either. Here's how it is ingame in 1.0.3.20 - https://i.imgur.com/XktBnNK.png

79
General / Death Stalkers are a bit unfun
« on: January 09, 2018, 06:04:19 am »
Disclaimer - I've killed many of these bastards, most on my crossbow trapper (Hard diff), and that mostly came down to how OP Quick Tinkering is. Well, that and backing into a corner lol.

What's frustrating about them is that even at level ~18, with maxed dodge, Nimble and wearing Tabi boots I can't seem to dodge their initial sting, at all. What's worse, on my other character with 12 PER I don't even begin to spot them (not even the non-targetable shadow outline) before I get attacked. And if I manage to hit them with a flare in time they'll usually win the initiative anyway and still get me. It seems like outside of cheese or speccing in a very specific way (Thick Skull, Uncanny Dodge + magic ball) relying on character skills alone just doesn't cut it, not even a small % of the time.

80
General / Re: No-crafting exploration build?
« on: January 08, 2018, 08:31:22 pm »
I'm extremely inexperienced with both psi and unarmed melee (specifically AP cutoff points) so I'd love some feedback -
My only feedback is that I honestly don't believe a psi-heavy build without Premeditation is correct.  There is no feat that's as valuable to a psi user as Premeditation.  It's a free action, and it also extends the range of most abilities and halves their psi cost.  You'd only need 1 more point in Int to open it up, and it's enormously powerful.  I would trade out Pack Rathound in an instant for Premeditation.  The QoL of greater carrying capacity won't match the benefits of Premeditation, and your AoE mind abilities like LoC+Enrage or LoC+Bilocation are expensive enough that it's a huge help to get them for half cost, especially since you're not going to have Meditation or Neurology to give you a slightly deeper pool of psi.  Plus if you eventually find yourself making use of TK Proxy + (TK Punch and/or Implosion), you're going to be burning through an awful lot of psi.

Get Premeditation.

I have been thinking about that actually, mostly because I realized that 10 dex is plenty for this build (so 1 point could go from dex to int) but also that I'm really low on encumbrance most of the time compared to some of the other characters I've played lately.

Also, is Taste for Blood worth it? I'm currently using The Claw and will likely switch to The Ripper's Glove later on.

81
General / Re: No-crafting exploration build?
« on: January 08, 2018, 03:06:21 am »
Cool idea, I wanted to do a low/no crafting run myself once I wrap up my current one. Was wondering if something like a psi monk would work for this purpose, with somewhat even spread in agi, dex, will, int and then fill out whatever is left. Decent combat gloves shouldn't be too hard to fight, but you can also go unarmed.

edit: Here's my rough outline for the build, but I'm extremely inexperienced with both psi and unarmed melee (specifically AP cutoff points) so I'd love some feedback -

 http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQMLCAYDCgUAHgDCh8KAwofCh2pEAAAAAAAAAMKHwocASQAATyQnHRQgBhITK0EHIVAW

I didn't intend on taking Thought control at first but since I had so many leftover points I thought why not.

Couple ideas I'm toying with:

- Get Paranoia because the build is literally blind man mode
- look into bleed feats in case I decide to use fist weapons instead of unarmed

* Note that Feats aren't taken in leveling order, this is just a placeholder template for now

edit2: An alternative for OP if he wants to give it a try would be to drop CON to 3, raise PER (optionally drop another point from dex if you don't want to gobble down food), drop Con reliant feats and get Paranoia + Snooping.

edit3: Took the above build to lvl 12 on Normal, finished Camp Hathor and I have to say it feels really nice. Low PER stings a bit but you can use motion tracking goggles to compensate.

82
General / Has the Beast encounter been buffed?
« on: January 07, 2018, 03:38:32 pm »
I just got to the final part of the Beast questline in the Foundry on my crossbow build (Hard diff). I optimistically started the fight with around 25 pre-placed bear traps (about half were poisoned) and I had about 80 or so shock arrows (with Elemental Bolts feat) so I thought I was sufficiently prepared. After what felt like the 8th or 9th (!) wave I realize that wasn't the case.

I mean I knew the encounter was gonna suck for crossbows anyway because I did it in the past (before elemental arrows got buffed) but this feels like it's slightly overtuned.  The only thing I can think of right now is to go shopping and bring another 30-40 traps.

edit: Beaten it by crafting a bunch of mk3 arrows, but still. Feels a little extreme for a quest that is usually done around level 16-18.

83
General / How does feat scaling from stats work? Effective or base?
« on: January 06, 2018, 05:44:12 pm »
Specifically feats like Snipe, Uncanny Dodge and Three Pointer, do these take base values or effective? The table for Three Pointer on the wiki goes past 135 which leads me to believe that it scales off effective but I'd love some confirmation.

84
No Quick Tinkering? You absolute madman.

85
Of course, you may wish to pump Con instead, that's would be even better perhaps, but I always liked glass cannon archtypes.

I've thought about it but there really aren't any appealing feats for my build at 6 con (max I could get). And generally if I start taking damage I die pretty fast anyway.

86
Hilf posted some results from an accuracy test he did on the energy/chem pistol thread (http://underrail.com/forums/index.php?topic=2008.15):

Quote
6 perception, 125(146) guns = 78% chance to hit
11 perception, 125(199) guns = 79% chance to hit
My target was Plasma Sentry. I did another test, same setup but with flare and result was again 1% point.

As I said in that thread, these results seem a bit strange, considering the effective skill difference is quite significant at 53 points. And because of that, I did a quick test of my own:

12 PER, 125 (210) Guns skill, Scoped Compensated 7.62 Hornet, character Focused, target is Praetorian Sniper right next to a light source, 13 tile/max sight distance = 66% chance to hit with normal attack, 33% with burst
Rapid Compensated 7.62 Jaguar, same conditions except distance is 9 tiles and less = 89% chance to hit at all distances with normal attack, burst precision increases as the distance decreases

15 PER, 125 (241) Guns skill, with the Hornet = 78% chance to hit with normal attack, 39% with burst
Jaguar = 90% chance to hit at all distances with normal attack, burst precision increases as the distance decreases

Assault Rifles (and very likely Crossbows as well, considering they have the same max range and only one tile less optimal range) seem to benefit considerably at maximum distance, but as soon as you move 2 or 3 tiles closer, chance to hit jumps to 95%, with both Perception values. Burst CTH is higher with 15 PER at all distances, although it caps at 92% with both 12 and 15 PER, the latter reaching it a tile or so sooner. Same thing with the Jaguar, although precision cap is lower than the Hornet's 92%. The Jaguar's normal attack is the weird one: it kinda seems to imply that the less range a weapon has, the less it benefits from extreme skill values.

I guess the builds that really want to max Perception for the accuracy gain are mainly burst-focused Riflemen, and crossbow users to a considerably lesser degree due to lacking burst fire. I'm fairly sure Sniper Rifles benefit even less, since they're always in optimal range.

Thanks, good info. So considering that most engagements involve multiple enemies who try to close the distance fast and that most fights start in sections where you don't even have a line of sight that spans the entire max weapon range, it would seem that pumping PER just for that wouldn't be worth it. Extra detection would be nice for sure but I could just take Paranoia for that (and to offset Recklessness penalty). How does PER affect accuracy penalty from moving and close range? For example, if you'd be over accuracy cap thanks to stats would the new value be max cap - 10% or would the extra stats make up for it and increase it back to cap?

87
What would be the recommended thresholds for crafting then?

88
What's the general opinion on raising base stats to raise the effective skill levels, even if the stat is otherwise wasted? I've adjusted my planned crossbow build to this -

http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQMHCAMMAwoAAMKHAHjCh8KHS1cAMktKRjJKAAAAAAAAJzEBIh0wwoA1ODNLaiRB

I was initially going for 10 agi (hence why it's at 8 now) but since I've abandoned my plan to get Blitz I thought it wouldn't be a bad idea to raise INT since I have 6 skill disciplines that benefit heavily from it. I checked the numbers on the calc for weapon damage increase from perception and going from 12 to 15 raises the damage bonus from 258% to 283%. Assuming these numbers are correct I have to say that the damage increase does not seem worth the 3 point investment. Slowly raising INT towards the end of the leveling curve also has the added benefit of allowing me to focus on other stats before crafting and then catch up on those fast as well.

One thing I don't know however is how much crafting skill is generally required these days for high tier gear.

Thoughts? Am I crazy for bumping a stat if it's not required to meet perk requirements?

89
General / Re: Burrower nest keycard
« on: January 04, 2018, 05:43:17 pm »
Thanks, great to know. I hate leaving quests unfinished and areas unexplored :)

90
General / Burrower nest keycard
« on: January 04, 2018, 05:00:44 pm »
I completely forgot I can talk to Quinton to convince Gorsky to give me the keycard and since Gorsky is now in Core City I can't really ask him for the card. Can I still obtain it by going to CC?

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