Messages

211

General / Re: Acid Cyclopean Eye

« on: June 15, 2017, 07:46:39 am »

Holy... But how? I've been looking for him everywhere and couldn't find.

212

Suggestions / Re: Improve floor quality value for Super Steel?

« on: June 10, 2017, 03:25:01 am »

Save scum + cheat engine (to make time run 100 times faster, no need to wait too much time until work will be finished)  = perfect super steel plates with 150+ quality, because fck RNG

Ha. Save scum 160 quality super steel, then play with global.dat of several save files and have any amount of maximum quality super steel (and other components) for any character that needs it. That's how you do it)

213

General / Re: Are energy pistols as gimp as I think they are?

« on: May 24, 2017, 03:30:17 pm »

Laser pistols can have decent overall damage output when you pump your crit chance and crit damage. They also have innate accuracy bonus which is nice, even if small. On the possible damage from one shot plasma pistol is close to sniper rifle. Alpha strike with Aimed Shot form Electroshock pistol against a group of enemies is very powerful also.

Shields are not as big of a problem for an energy weapon user, as it seems to be - due to insane possible crit damage (about 600-700% on the high end) Aimed shot can burn through shield and enemy health like lava through paper bag.

The point about resistances seems strange since electricity, heat and energy are much rarer (and lower) than simple mechanical resistance that is used for other weapons.

214

Suggestions / Re: Key ring or bag?

« on: May 22, 2017, 12:18:10 am »

Well, you can press "non quest items" button in the inventory (the far right one) and all such items will be hidden.

215

General / Re: Hardmode Iron Man Throwing build!

« on: May 20, 2017, 02:20:57 am »

Tactical vest is good only against bullets and only to a certain point - things like AR and snipers still will do good damage, and aimed shot from snipers will kill you. If you don't get either a heavy armor or high evasion/dodge, you can buy a spare keyboard right now, because by the end of this run you will have f5 and f9 broken on yours.

P.S. Oh, wait, you are doing ironman. Heh, no way, jose. There are quite a lot of battles where you can't pick position and can't cover all enemies with 2 grenades.

216

General / Re: What to look for in weapons?

« on: May 17, 2017, 01:27:26 am »

It seems like your main selling point of a pistol is accuracy and Kneecap Shot which seems pretty weak to me. A pistol might be more accurate per bullet but you only get 1 shot. A burst fires 5 bullets at reduced accuracy but at point blank range it's mathematically impossible for it to be less accurate comparing it to a pistol shot. In fact, I would say SMG is much more effective due to its high chance to crit (5 vs. 1).
You know you can kneecap shot w/ an SMG right?

Well, he also mentions increase in initiative with Gunslinger.

217

General / Re: What to look for in weapons?

« on: May 17, 2017, 01:12:45 am »

He's not just a corner case, he's the worst-case scenario. Basing everything on a worst-case scenario is absolutely rational.

It's not a worst-case scenario. Worst-case scenario is sneaking through Faceless block post and bumping into Gaunt and remembering that you last save is about 4-5 hours old. He is a corner case because you are fighting under conditions that you encounter only once in the game. Basing everything on such fight is not rational.

Acting first is a major advantage. As you said yourself, given sufficient degree of optimization, everything is viable. But acting first is definetly better than acting before most.

And you will have this advantage quite often anyway. Acting before most is quite sufficient. It's not as good as acting first, but it's still better than limiting your options and effectiveness in the fight itself.

My strategy in case of Carnifex getting the first turn is to tase him first.

If the taser works, the next step is Aimed Shot with the move penalty since he will have no evasion and the hit chance will be 79% (for some reason it drops from 95% to 79% instead of 80%). If it hits, it's over. If it misses, the next step is Kneecap Shot that will have 95% chance to hit. If it hits, I have enough time to keep Carnifex at bay. If it doesn't, I will use a flashbang on the next turn and re-stealth.

If the taser gets resisted, the next step is flashbang. If the flashbang gets resisted, the next step in kneecap shot with about 60-70% chance to hit. If that misses too, I'm pretty much out of options, but that never happened since all those things failing at the same time is mathematically unlikely.

The point here is that Kneecap Shot is just one of the many forms of CC. It's not something I rely solely on against Carnifex, it's one of many failsafes and it works perfectly for that purpose. On the other I would have no use for SMG bursts here.

I'd say this tactics is needlessly elaborated. I use Quick Tinkering to trap him and then chip away his health with SMG bursts, either killing him in one round or after his morphine shot expired. Also i craft low frequency shield specifically for this fight and turn it on before i get into arena. By the time the fight starts it's mostly drained, but still there remains enough for me to survive the round in most cases.

Besides, with your tactics if you had SMG, you could just kill him with bursts after tasing him. And it has a 100% success rate (the killing part, not the taser).

There are two hordes of rathounds in DC, but both of them can be engaged at distance and thinned before they start getting close or simply kitted.

Unless you make a mistake. In which case you need to reload, because having 2+ tough melee enemies up close and personal is not something pistol can handle, while i can still manage this situation. Same for burrowers. Double for faceless.

Which I think is the what makes our playstyles different. When I'm playing a sniper, I'm playing a sniper, not a sniper/something hybrid with two main weapons. I'm not looking for another damage source, I'm already holding the holy grail of damage in my first weapon slot. I'm looking for something that will complement it, not replace it.

It's not really an argument. It's still a sniper, just with more options. And it's not just "another damage source", it's a source of a very good damage in situations where you can't use your other source effectively, so i can't see how it's a "replacement". I get flexibility AND utility, like being able to kill enemies silently, which is not really possible with pistols without specializing in them. If i'm spending character resources on something, i at least make sure that this something is a worthwhile investment.

Btw, i wouldn't say that sniper is a holy grail of damage, unless it's in a most technical sense. True it can do shitload of damage, but this damage is usually to a 1-2 targets. If you compare by kills/round then it looses to a properly built SMG and AR builds, sometimes even to a sledgehammers.

Without heavy investment in DEX, the AP cost of SMGs and a rapid Hornet will be about the same. Even with Spec Ops 2x bursts, the overall damage potential of ARs is much greater than that of SMGs. ARs only require one feat to be an awesome secondary. Really, if all you care about is damage, there is no reason whatsoever to use an SMG over AR. ARs are a straight upgrade over SMGs that will also take less investment in this context.

I thought i gave several examples why. Burst from SMG - 20 AP (or slightly less), which means you can kill melee guy who got too close and then shoot your rifle. You can't do than with AR without adrenaline shot. They are not even close to be "about the same". ARs also can's make stealth kills. Oh, and AR can't use Kneecap Shot. So no, AR is not really awesome secondary for snipers (though sniper rifle can be awesome secondary for AR).

Damage is not the only thing i care, i though that can be quite clear from my posts. Seriously...

218

General / Re: What to look for in weapons?

« on: May 16, 2017, 08:49:23 pm »

Carnifex is a corner case, basing everything around him is not really convincing.

Having 20% chance to act before Carnifex is not exactly what I would call "high". You can expect most enemies to have at least 20+ initiative , 15 at best. Considering you will be usually facing multiple enemies, your chance to act first drops considerably.

You don't need to act first, you just need to act before most. Unless you are playing 0 dodge and evasion character of course.

I seriously doubt one or two bursts were enough to kill Carnifex, much less the problem of him getting next to you on the first turn. Also doubt they were enough to deal with other tough melee enemies such as Balor etc.

And i seriously doubt that you can rely on your Kneecap shot to reliably work against Carnifex with his high evasion and yell. The argument about Balor is really strange - why would i try to kill primary target with secondary weapon? I'd either kill him with Snipe or wait in the bedroom in stealth with taser and then he goes down in 4 burst from silenced smg filled with W2C ammo (taser - 10 AP, 3 burst - 60 AP + one burst free). I don't think you can kill him with a silenced pistol in one turn.

Anything else is squishy enough to be killed with a pistol with no problems.

On the other hand, not only do pistols increase your chance of him not getting the first turn considerably, even if he does get the first turn, Kneecap Shot is going to keep him at bay in the next one.

No, it's not. Unless you spec for pistols, most melee enemies are, in fact, not squishy enough to kill with a pistol in one turn. Besides, even if they were, there is a big difference between killing them in one turn and killing them in 1-2 bursts (with a good chance of damaging every enemy near them) and then being able to fire your main weapon.

This assumes you are fighting multiple melee enemies tanky enough to necessitate an entire burst to kill them. In my experience this never happens. The only melee enemies that may necessitate the use of a secondary are either swarms of rathounds/spawns/crawlers, stealthy cutthroats or Arena gladiators. In the first case, pistol damage is adequate. In the second and third one it's a 1v1 fight.

It doesn't assume that. It assumes you are fighting several enemies, some of them melee, some - ranged. With SMG you can still shoot your rifle at ranged enemy after dealing with melee getting in your face. And this situation is like half of the fights in the game. Almost all bandits and military is a mixed group.

If 2+ melee guys managed to get close they are rathounds/spawns/crawlers. Pistol damage is perfectly adequate in that case.

Now you are just contradicting yourself) What about fights you mentioned early? Like Black Crawlers place or fighting Faceless? In all those case, you'll have to deal with enemies that are not easy trash mobs and a lot of them are melee. Pistol is really not enough in these fights, and it can really stop you from advancing in the game.

Also, even if they are rathounds/burrowers, i remember several places in the DC where you have to deal with a LOT of them, including ancient rathounds and burrowers warriors. And yes, you can get on with stealth, but as you mentioned you can always make a mistake. I don't think that pistol will do you any good, while SMG can carry you.

This was really a minor point because I don't consider damage to be a priority for the secondary weapon. Pistols will get the smart bonus on kneecap shot and point shot/rapid fire if you decide to take them. If you don't, it's not a big deal.

It's a minor point for pistols, but not for SMG. Rapid Fire and Point shot will get a bonus IF you decide to spend another two feats on them. For a secondary weapon that doesn't do much damage.

Thing with SMG is that it's not really a secondary weapon, it's more like a second main one. It deals damage that is comparable to your sniper (at least in a sense of possible kill count) and you use it when you can't use you sniper rifle. That way you cover more bases and get quite an amount of flexibility for your character that overshadows small utility from pistols. So yeah, it is a big deal.

Which is the most imporant one. But the point is I don't see why would you go with SMGs instead of ARs if you are so concerned with damage and don't take Kneecap Shot.

Because SMG cost less AP (smallest AP cost per shot for all firearms and only 2x for burst) while still doing considerable damage. They require only two feats to be awesome. You can make silent SMG and use it when you don't want to fight all the enemies on the map at once and it really benefits usual sniper playstyle. BTW, you can also take Kneecap shot if you really want. I did when i played sniper, but i found out that i don't use it all that often - most of the time, it's easier to just kill a guy who got too close rather then fire one shot at him and run.

Trying to kill multiple enemies with a burst is very unreliable if you ask me.

With one? Yes. With 2-4? No, it's quite reliable.

I disagree. To me it seems it's simply a difference in playstyle. It sounds like you are not really using the sniper rifle as a primary and the SMG as a secondary, it sounds more like you are using them both to a similar degree.

Yes, because unlike pistols SMGs allows you to use at as second main with minimal investment. More flexibility in fighting tactics is never a bad thing.

219

General / Re: What to look for in weapons?

« on: May 16, 2017, 04:17:17 pm »

Ok, i understand your point about initiative (i like high initiative myself), though after playing sniper on hard i say that the only place you really need it is the Arena. With something like 7 Agi 7 Dex and Paranoia, you already have quite high initiative of 24. Also, when i said about investment, i meant that without Dex as you primary attribute, they aren't very good (or even just good). Though the fact that SMG need only 2 feats to be awesome is of course a big factor.

2. Neo Lugers with laser sights have a total of 15% precision bonus (the tight, reliable damage range is very good as well). SMGs and ARs have at most 10%.This makes them the best choice for making sure that Kneecap Shot hits which allows you to make space between you and the melee enemy, which furher allows you to use the sniper rifle. The damage of the Kneecap Shot is irrelevant, I only need it to hit.

And i only need to burst once or twice to kill this guy. Even with 95% accuracy there is a chance for miss, but i don't remember two bursts failing to solve a problem of melee enemies trying to get close. It's also AP friendly since Kneecap shot doesn't kill your enemy and you need to fire your rifle to finish the job, while after two bursts with smg i still can shot some other guy with Spearhead and since i didn't have to move (because the reason i had to move is dead now), i don't have penalties for that. Also, 5% accuracy on high Per character with night vision goggles is not very useful.

And in case of 2+ melee guys, SMGs have even bigger advantage since burst doesn't have cooldown unlike Kneecap shot.

3. Pistols have a natural synergy with sniper rifles because Sharpshooter also works with pistols, which basically makes them have 30% more crit damage that SMGs/ARs, even more after Critical Power. This is minor because as I said damage is not a big deal, but it's something to consider.

And SMGs have natural synergy with snipers because they get increased damage from Smart goggles - around 30-50% increase on ALL your damage from SMG. Compared to that 75% increase in critical damage (50% on Neo Luger, since it has 90% base crit damage) with less than 10% crit chance, is not very much.

I see SMGs as a middle road between pistols and ARs. Not as much damage as ARs, but more utility in the form of no STR requirement and Kneecap Shot. Not as much utility as pistols, but more damage.

The only utility i see from pistols that i can't get from SMGs is initiative increase.

The problem with bursts is that while they look good on paper and certainly work good when the build is centered around them, they are usually overkill for a secondary. I don't need to put 5 bullets into a rathound or a spawn, which is what I will usually use my secondary for.

Anything tougher that that, I'm using my primary. The secondary is simply means to get my primary to work, so to say.

It's a different approach. All 3 options (pistols, SMGs, ARs) have their ups and downs, it all comes down to preference.

SMGs are even better to deal with small trash mobs since they have less AP cost than pistols  (even if damage is slightly lesser, it's more than enough for them) in case there is only one or two of them. And when there is a lot, bursts are even more effective AP to kill count wise.

Some weapons have more ups than downs while others have more downs than ups. Of course, given sufficient degree of optimization (though we can't assume that for new guys), most weapon choices are viable in a sense of being able to finish the game (except for pure throwing knives build, perhaps). That doesn't mean that the difference is in preferences only - pistols are weaker than SMGs, both as primary and as secondary.

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General / Re: What to look for in weapons?

« on: May 15, 2017, 11:05:37 pm »

To be honest, i never understood having pistols as secondary weapons for snipers. They require considerable investment to be just ok. SMGs on the other hand are sniper's best friends - with only two feats (Commando + Spec Ops) you will be able to deal quite a significant amount of damage to everyone who dares to get close to you. Even without a lot of points in Dex you can get 2-3 bursts per turn and since Burst is considered a special attack, your damage will increase even further due to Smart goggles and modules.

221

Development Log / Re: Dev Log #52: Jet Skis

« on: April 24, 2017, 10:38:27 pm »

3. Was making only sledgehammers and sniper rifles unusable (rather than all two-handed weapons, so assault rifles, crossbows, two-handed shotguns, etc.) a balance issue?

3. For the snipers it kinda made sense. Similarly for the sledgehammers, but there was also an issue of animation, especially in the sitting position.

If it makes sense for sniper rifles and sledgehammers, it should apply to assault rifles too, no?

222

General / Re: GMS Expedition

« on: April 22, 2017, 05:23:03 pm »

Killing hostages will in no way prevent you from finishing quest.

In general i would say that crossbow as well as most glass cannon builds aren't well suited for inexperienced players. I would recommend something more sturdy and with less obvious flaws, like crossbow's lack of ability to deal with mechanical resistance.

223

Suggestions / Re: Small suggestions that don't deserve their own thread

« on: April 21, 2017, 05:24:57 am »

Dont see what kind of tactics you planning if you missed your first hit with 5 ironmans or faceless. On the hard it means you basically dead in their turn.

No, it doesn't. If it does, it's just means that your character is lacking proper defenses like armor, shield, evasion/dodge, etc. Not every character is a glass cannon. And even in that case, there are always cover and traps. Knowing how to position yourself before the fight is very important.

If fights are so hard for you that you have to savescum, think about playing on lower difficulty.

But they will never accomplish this game on hard...

That is hilarious

224

General / Re: Flashbang Merchant

« on: April 20, 2017, 05:27:05 pm »

I think, i saw them being sold in general stores, like the one in Core City

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Suggestions / Re: Small suggestions that don't deserve their own thread

« on: April 20, 2017, 07:38:28 am »

I am pretty sure everyone just click f9 when you miss your first hit.

No