256
General / Re: Stealth Build w/o crafting viable?
« on: February 19, 2018, 12:46:17 am »
I hope the expansion will buff throwing-only build, assassin (knife) and firearm pistol, in this order.
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257
General / Re: Stealth Build w/o crafting viable?
« on: February 16, 2018, 05:00:05 am »
If you want to play a stealth build w/o crafting you should play either psi or unarmed. Why? TheAverageGortsby already explained about psi. Unarmed because there are couple good unarmed unique in the game so you don't need crafting.
Just want to add some minor points:
- Use the build tool http://underrail.info.tm/build/ to plan and post your build.
- Don't play dominating difficulty w/o crafting. It can be done but it's not fun.
- I just don't get Interloper: you do get faster stealth speed (you can get by easily without this speed boost) and +15MP in combat but why choose this when you can get Sprint for +30MP for 2 turns, on demand? You should test out the two feats in a separate save before fully commit to your build
- For most build Cutthroat is a luxury you can't afford. I don't recommend getting this for a knife build.
- Ambush only works w/ range weapons. Since throwing knives are consider combat utilities, no, I don't think Ambush works w/ throwing knives.
- Blitz is a very specialize feat. If you are new to the game, I don't recommend getting it.
- Escape artist, Fancy footwork, Nimble, Uncanny dodge: hard to say without looking at your build. Fancy Footwork works well w/ high DEX knife/unarmed build (works great w/ Blitz too). If you have one last empty feat slot I think Uncanny dodge > Nimble > Escape artist.
- Melee, throwing or both -> again hard to say without looking at your build. Since you are playing w/o crafting I would say both. Just remember throwing skills does not increase grenade damage as it only increase throwing accuracy. 80 effective throwing is a good target to aim for as it will allow you to throw a grenade four tiles away at 90% accuracy. Anything over would probably be a waste in your case.
- Dodge and Evasion are not worth it in Dominating difficulty. They are very useful for easy/normal/hard. Since you are playing w/o crafting get both since you should have a lot of skill points left anyway. If you need skill points else where cut dodge to 40 and just use Uncanny dodge.
- Traps: just get 25 base traps so you can get quick tinkering, that should be enough
- Persuasion: really your personal choice
- "I want to open every container, hack every computer and be able to find every hidden passage etc" Open every container + hack every computer = 130 effective hacking *without the aid of tools*, 130 effective lockpicking. The last one is a problem - find every hidden passage requires high PER but PER is useless to a melee/psi char. I would say save this for a second run w/ a gunner/xbow char.
Just want to add some minor points:
- Use the build tool http://underrail.info.tm/build/ to plan and post your build.
- Don't play dominating difficulty w/o crafting. It can be done but it's not fun.
- I just don't get Interloper: you do get faster stealth speed (you can get by easily without this speed boost) and +15MP in combat but why choose this when you can get Sprint for +30MP for 2 turns, on demand? You should test out the two feats in a separate save before fully commit to your build
- For most build Cutthroat is a luxury you can't afford. I don't recommend getting this for a knife build.
- Ambush only works w/ range weapons. Since throwing knives are consider combat utilities, no, I don't think Ambush works w/ throwing knives.
- Blitz is a very specialize feat. If you are new to the game, I don't recommend getting it.
- Escape artist, Fancy footwork, Nimble, Uncanny dodge: hard to say without looking at your build. Fancy Footwork works well w/ high DEX knife/unarmed build (works great w/ Blitz too). If you have one last empty feat slot I think Uncanny dodge > Nimble > Escape artist.
- Melee, throwing or both -> again hard to say without looking at your build. Since you are playing w/o crafting I would say both. Just remember throwing skills does not increase grenade damage as it only increase throwing accuracy. 80 effective throwing is a good target to aim for as it will allow you to throw a grenade four tiles away at 90% accuracy. Anything over would probably be a waste in your case.
- Dodge and Evasion are not worth it in Dominating difficulty. They are very useful for easy/normal/hard. Since you are playing w/o crafting get both since you should have a lot of skill points left anyway. If you need skill points else where cut dodge to 40 and just use Uncanny dodge.
- Traps: just get 25 base traps so you can get quick tinkering, that should be enough
- Persuasion: really your personal choice
- "I want to open every container, hack every computer and be able to find every hidden passage etc" Open every container + hack every computer = 130 effective hacking *without the aid of tools*, 130 effective lockpicking. The last one is a problem - find every hidden passage requires high PER but PER is useless to a melee/psi char. I would say save this for a second run w/ a gunner/xbow char.
258
General / Re: A few SMG questions
« on: February 07, 2018, 11:32:07 pm »
The wiki is missing rapid reloader AP cost tables for pistol and SMG. This is why I added them to my guide http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=843557165 (Crafting & component reference part VII section) back in Jan.
259
General / Re: Combat gloves quick question
« on: January 17, 2018, 11:39:43 pm »So, epeli, do spiked gloves bugged?
They should inflict damage in two separate hits right?
Bugged how?
That's how they worked last I checked. Reinforced gloves have increased damage on the primary hit, while spikes add a weak secondary hit (that benefits from expertise and such)
Well just loaded my game up and tested - a hit from spiked combat gloves DOES NOT produce a weak secondary hit. Would you test this in game and let me know if it's my game or?
260
General / Re: Combat gloves quick question
« on: January 11, 2018, 03:05:37 am »
I'm going to list some numbers using the highest possible crafting components for Infused ancient rathound leather combat gloves:
by itself:
Damage: 11-18
Reinforced
Damage: 13-22
This is a 18% ~ 22% increase in damage for every hit.
Spiked
Damage: 15-24
base: 11-18
spike: 4-6
Just loaded a game and tested spiked gloves - it seems to be bug at the moment; the "Secondary hit that deals small amount of Mechanical damage" never seems to trigger.
Bladed
Damage: 11-18
35% chance to inflict a bleeding wound that deals additional 189% damage over 3 turns
If your char attack at 5AP per punch you will attack 10 times per turn. At 35% that means roughly 3 ~ 4 bleeding attack; 189% damage over 3 turns = 63% per turn. This means you will not get any extra damage the first turn. You will get 3 ~ 4 times 63% for the next three turn, which equal 3 ~ 4 times (6.93-11.34) = 3 ~ 4 times (6-11) = 18-33 (min) or 24-44 (max)
This is a 63% ~ 144% increase in damage per turn after the first turn for three turns.
If you factor in the global increase in damage from taste of blood the damage difference (at max stack = 50% increase to melee damage!) is even more ridiculous.
by itself:
Damage: 11-18
Reinforced
Damage: 13-22
This is a 18% ~ 22% increase in damage for every hit.
Spiked
Damage: 15-24
base: 11-18
spike: 4-6
Just loaded a game and tested spiked gloves - it seems to be bug at the moment; the "Secondary hit that deals small amount of Mechanical damage" never seems to trigger.
Bladed
Damage: 11-18
35% chance to inflict a bleeding wound that deals additional 189% damage over 3 turns
If your char attack at 5AP per punch you will attack 10 times per turn. At 35% that means roughly 3 ~ 4 bleeding attack; 189% damage over 3 turns = 63% per turn. This means you will not get any extra damage the first turn. You will get 3 ~ 4 times 63% for the next three turn, which equal 3 ~ 4 times (6.93-11.34) = 3 ~ 4 times (6-11) = 18-33 (min) or 24-44 (max)
This is a 63% ~ 144% increase in damage per turn after the first turn for three turns.
If you factor in the global increase in damage from taste of blood the damage difference (at max stack = 50% increase to melee damage!) is even more ridiculous.
261
General / Re: Combat gloves quick question
« on: January 10, 2018, 11:23:41 pm »
Right now blade is the king of combat gloves and spike is no where near the power of a bladed gloves.
262
Suggestions / Re: Increase damage stat of unique firearms
« on: January 10, 2018, 11:21:38 pm »
Not just firearm, more like buffing all uniques across the board, period. They should be weaker than the top tier crafted items and/or offer special unique abilities not obtainable by crafting. Right now they are weaker than crafted item and offer less utilities (rapid reloader, smart module, etc).
Of course this is not the first time we've seen this suggestion and I doubt it'll be different this time. Best of luck to you OP.
Of course this is not the first time we've seen this suggestion and I doubt it'll be different this time. Best of luck to you OP.
263
General / Re: No-crafting exploration build?
« on: January 08, 2018, 01:32:11 am »
Just want to note as of version 1.0.3 Junkyard surprise can no longer increase perception, will or intelligence.
264
General / Re: Post your experiences with the new Dominating difficulty!
« on: January 02, 2018, 05:11:35 am »Currently playing a heavy gunner, and it is not the cakewalk everybody says. That's mainly due to a) death stalkers and b) huge groups of strong enemies, where you need CC more than single-target damage (bursts aren't CC enough here). I have max damage threshold and I still get hit by death stalkers every time and even burrowers sometimes. Heavy armor sure helps, but it's not the "walk into a hail of gunfire and slowly beat people to death while humming to yourself" experience it used to be.
Are you using super steel set? If you are looking for mechanical damage threshold you should try to get a full tungsten set. Best case scenario it's Mech 95%/35 for SS and Mech 95%/61 for Tungsten - you'll lose a lot of energy resist but shield can make up for it. You need one extra strength to wear Tungsten and rathound BBQ can take care of that. Obviously you won't get components with quality that high in a regular game but you should still aim and hunt for tungsten.
____
Super steel metal armor
4X Q160 super steel
Q133 regen vest
Mech 71%/26
Super steel metal helmet
Q160 super steel
Q149 high density padding
Mech 12%/4
Super steel metal boots
2X Q160 super steel
Q149 high density padding
Mech 22%/5
Total
Mech 105% (cap at 95%)/35
____
Tungsten metal armor
4X Q147 Tungsten
Q133 regen vest
Mech 70%/45
Tungsten metal helmet
Q147 Tungsten
Q149 high density padding
Mech 11%/7
Tungsten metal boots
2X Q147 Tungsten
Q149 high density padding
Mech 20%/9
Total
Mech 101% (cap at 95%)/61
265
General / Re: Energy pistol build
« on: December 31, 2017, 08:55:38 pm »
For my last post I was thinking Gunslinger but type out Steadfast Aim ...
Melee used to be overwhelmingly strong w/ taste for blood ap reduction, combo 100 stun, no min 4AP attack restriction.
Melee used to be overwhelmingly strong w/ taste for blood ap reduction, combo 100 stun, no min 4AP attack restriction.
266
General / Re: Energy pistol build
« on: December 31, 2017, 03:51:22 pm »You only need 127 Throwing for max chance to hit with granades.
How was reloading your Smart Amplified pistols without Power Management?
Did you rise Mechanics that high just for your SMG? Isn't Syg MPX good enough on Dominating? It does fine on Hard even with standard bullets.
Edit:
BTW for DEX maxing builds lasers are only as fast as they used to be, and actually slower with extreme DEX (17+).
Sure, they are faster with less DEX but they are also worse with Steadfast Aim.
This laser buff is in part just unnerfing.
Would that be 127 effective or base throwing?
Reloading isn't that much of a problem w/o Power Management but you do need to watch out for it. Because I used incendiary grenades + quick tinkering + bear traps there were actually a lot of "down time" with no enemy in range so I can reload w/ Supercharged Lithium Cell. In some situations it's better to reload w/ Fusion Cell (even tho there's less than 100 empty room in the gun), might seem wasteful at first but they are dirt cheap anyways.
Yes I raised mechanics that high for SMG (for selling + end game) and tactical vest (for selling + early ~ mid game). I wanted a fast and hard hitting SMG for single shots when crit is impossible (base damage 20-41, special attack +51%, 7AP per shot @14 DEX) - Syg MPX is not even on the same level.
Not sure what you mean about lasers? Ver 1.0.2 lasers have base AP of 22 = 14AP per shot @17 DEX. Ver 1.0.3 lasers have base AP of 15 = 9AP per shot @17 DEX. Steadfast aim was "fixed" to only work on firearm pre ver 1.0.2? Trading 2 or 3 ability points for 2.5 ~ 5% extra crit chance is a bad trade anyways.
267
General / Re: Energy pistol build
« on: December 31, 2017, 12:48:47 am »
I'm not sure about enemy light level as I usually get them in or near a burning tile.
I still think DEX 14 is stronger than DEX 10 as the PER damage boost is not enough to compensate for the lost shot(s). Plus AP10 electroshock point shot is too good.
I don't think DEX10 PER12 INT12 would work as due to lack of mobility and short weapon range. Most likely you'll be kite to death by snipers, xbowers and psi.
I still think DEX 14 is stronger than DEX 10 as the PER damage boost is not enough to compensate for the lost shot(s). Plus AP10 electroshock point shot is too good.
I don't think DEX10 PER12 INT12 would work as due to lack of mobility and short weapon range. Most likely you'll be kite to death by snipers, xbowers and psi.
268
General / Energy pistol build
« on: December 30, 2017, 11:25:00 pm »
I'm posting this thread because I've seen a couple threads about how energy pistol suck (since deleted) and how ambush is useless here and there.
In ver 1.0.3 energy pistols received a buff. The single most important change is the base AP cost reduction of laser pistol from 22 to 15. Energy pistols are very strong when they crit and pathetically weak when they can't crit. So our goal here is to a) increase critical chance and b) increase critical damage bonus as high as possible. A properly build and geared energy pistol char can clear ver 1.0.3 dominating difficulty. http://underrail.com/forums/index.php?topic=3281.msg17979#msg17979
First, my build: http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQMNBwMKAwfCh8KHAAAAwodxADIcKFt2SzBwAAAAAAAAARkxMB5RWRZLAj4zwppa
Evasion and Pickpocketing are optional. In theory it's possible to drop fatal throw and take psi empathy + premeditation and turn this into a psi energy pistol build. Or take more biology for SS drug. Or take mercantile to unlock special merchandise tier (in ver 1.0.3 special merchandise tier seems to spawn higher quality crafting component. However I don't see this being mention in the patch note - Confirmation/comment would be greatly appreciated).
At 14 DEX (using eel sandwich) a typical fight would be -> incendiary grenade to setup ambush, laser pistol crit shots @10 AP, electroshock pistol @21 AP (10AP point shot), plasma pistol @29AP (14AP point shot). Or stealth exit vent, aimed shot w/ plasma pistol obliterated your target, enter vent, rinse and repeat.
Gear (not even top tier, components used are around quality 12x ~ 13x):
Seeker goggles (crit chance +16%)
Infused rathound leather armor (crit chance +11%)
Recklessness (crit chance +7%)
Focus stim = crit chance +15%
= 49%
Laser pistol (crit chance = 6% from gun) = 55%
Plasma/Electro pistol (crit chance = 5%) = 54%
Feat
Ambush = crit chance + (20% + 0.3% * stealth skill points)
If we assume stealth skill point = 113 than crit chance = 53.9%
When you add everything up crit chance = 107.9 ~ 108.9%.
Next we have to understand and properly setup ambush. You can check your character's light level by studying your portrait. There are actually 5 different light levels:
Level 0 = completely darkness, portrait is completely dark
Level 1 = a little bit of light, portrait will flickering between darkness and light
Level 2 = some light, portrait will flickering between darkness (short time) and light (long time)
Level 3 = almost full light, portrait will occasionally dim but will stay bright most of the time
Level 4 = full light, portrait stay bright all the time
Ambush will only work if your char is at light level 0 ~ 1. It's actually very easy to confuse light level 1 with level 2 so to be safe always try to shoot from light level 0.
Similarly you can check your enemies' light level by right mouse click on them and looking at their portrait.
Next - the best way to light up your enemies is incendiary grenades. You will need a high effective throwing skill because you want the fire and light to land exactly the way you want it. I max out my throwing skill in my build for this reason. Once thrown you'll get this:
G = grenade landing spot
H = burning tile
E = empty space, nothing is happening
Burning tile will give off level 4 light up to 2 tiles away. You'll get another two tiles surrounding the area w/ various level of light (level 3 ~ 1), and than finally complete darkness. You should throw an incendiary grenade in turn base mode and learn its light locations.
If for some reason your incendiary grenade failed to light up your target you can try again on the same turn using a flare. Again you should throw a flare in turn based mode and study its light locations.
Energy pistols builds have the following weakness:
slow start and difficult early game
low accuracy
short range
fighting in small tight area where ambush is not possible
fighting in brightly lit area where ambush is not possible
enemies that are immune to critical (bladlings, and everything in mushroom forest)
Grenadier + three pointers + high grade frag/HE grenades will cover up some of these weaknesses (fighting when ambush is impossible). For early game quick tinkering + bear trap + abuse line of sight is the way to go, at least, that's how I did it. Ambush will help a bit w/ accuracy since it ignores half of ambushed enemies' evasion. For the end game I highly recommend you bring along advanced catalyzing belt, a fire/acid chem gun and a rapid smart 7.62mm Jaguar SMG in addition to your energy pistols.
I would rank energy pistol as the second weakest average tier class (the weakest being chem pistol) in reference to http://underrail.com/forums/index.php?topic=3264.0. It climbed 2 tiers from poor tier in this patch. It's on the same tier as a crossbow build but rank much lower due to the short weapon range and low accuracy. You can also kill yourself if you are not careful w/ your electroshock pistol.
Nerd Commando posted an alternative energy pistol build focusing on AGI, PER and INT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRf-gTw0jnc
In ver 1.0.3 energy pistols received a buff. The single most important change is the base AP cost reduction of laser pistol from 22 to 15. Energy pistols are very strong when they crit and pathetically weak when they can't crit. So our goal here is to a) increase critical chance and b) increase critical damage bonus as high as possible. A properly build and geared energy pistol char can clear ver 1.0.3 dominating difficulty. http://underrail.com/forums/index.php?topic=3281.msg17979#msg17979
First, my build: http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQMNBwMKAwfCh8KHAAAAwodxADIcKFt2SzBwAAAAAAAAARkxMB5RWRZLAj4zwppa
Evasion and Pickpocketing are optional. In theory it's possible to drop fatal throw and take psi empathy + premeditation and turn this into a psi energy pistol build. Or take more biology for SS drug. Or take mercantile to unlock special merchandise tier (in ver 1.0.3 special merchandise tier seems to spawn higher quality crafting component. However I don't see this being mention in the patch note - Confirmation/comment would be greatly appreciated).
At 14 DEX (using eel sandwich) a typical fight would be -> incendiary grenade to setup ambush, laser pistol crit shots @10 AP, electroshock pistol @21 AP (10AP point shot), plasma pistol @29AP (14AP point shot). Or stealth exit vent, aimed shot w/ plasma pistol obliterated your target, enter vent, rinse and repeat.
Gear (not even top tier, components used are around quality 12x ~ 13x):
Seeker goggles (crit chance +16%)
Infused rathound leather armor (crit chance +11%)
Recklessness (crit chance +7%)
Focus stim = crit chance +15%
= 49%
Laser pistol (crit chance = 6% from gun) = 55%
Plasma/Electro pistol (crit chance = 5%) = 54%
Feat
Ambush = crit chance + (20% + 0.3% * stealth skill points)
If we assume stealth skill point = 113 than crit chance = 53.9%
When you add everything up crit chance = 107.9 ~ 108.9%.
Next we have to understand and properly setup ambush. You can check your character's light level by studying your portrait. There are actually 5 different light levels:
Level 0 = completely darkness, portrait is completely dark
Level 1 = a little bit of light, portrait will flickering between darkness and light
Level 2 = some light, portrait will flickering between darkness (short time) and light (long time)
Level 3 = almost full light, portrait will occasionally dim but will stay bright most of the time
Level 4 = full light, portrait stay bright all the time
Ambush will only work if your char is at light level 0 ~ 1. It's actually very easy to confuse light level 1 with level 2 so to be safe always try to shoot from light level 0.
Similarly you can check your enemies' light level by right mouse click on them and looking at their portrait.
Next - the best way to light up your enemies is incendiary grenades. You will need a high effective throwing skill because you want the fire and light to land exactly the way you want it. I max out my throwing skill in my build for this reason. Once thrown you'll get this:
G = grenade landing spot
H = burning tile
E = empty space, nothing is happening
Code: [Select]
EEHHHEE
EHHHHHE
HHHHHHH
HHHGHHH
HHHHHHH
EHHHHHE
EEHHHEE
Burning tile will give off level 4 light up to 2 tiles away. You'll get another two tiles surrounding the area w/ various level of light (level 3 ~ 1), and than finally complete darkness. You should throw an incendiary grenade in turn base mode and learn its light locations.
If for some reason your incendiary grenade failed to light up your target you can try again on the same turn using a flare. Again you should throw a flare in turn based mode and study its light locations.
Energy pistols builds have the following weakness:
slow start and difficult early game
low accuracy
short range
fighting in small tight area where ambush is not possible
fighting in brightly lit area where ambush is not possible
enemies that are immune to critical (bladlings, and everything in mushroom forest)
Grenadier + three pointers + high grade frag/HE grenades will cover up some of these weaknesses (fighting when ambush is impossible). For early game quick tinkering + bear trap + abuse line of sight is the way to go, at least, that's how I did it. Ambush will help a bit w/ accuracy since it ignores half of ambushed enemies' evasion. For the end game I highly recommend you bring along advanced catalyzing belt, a fire/acid chem gun and a rapid smart 7.62mm Jaguar SMG in addition to your energy pistols.
I would rank energy pistol as the second weakest average tier class (the weakest being chem pistol) in reference to http://underrail.com/forums/index.php?topic=3264.0. It climbed 2 tiers from poor tier in this patch. It's on the same tier as a crossbow build but rank much lower due to the short weapon range and low accuracy. You can also kill yourself if you are not careful w/ your electroshock pistol.
Nerd Commando posted an alternative energy pistol build focusing on AGI, PER and INT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRf-gTw0jnc
269
General / Re: Post your experiences with the new Dominating difficulty!
« on: December 29, 2017, 07:58:16 pm »
All enemies in dominating received a 30% skill increase - meaning more damage + accuracy.
270
General / Re: Post your experiences with the new Dominating difficulty!
« on: December 28, 2017, 04:29:24 am »Correct me if I am wrong, but your goal, so far as I can understand it from these quotations, is to see if it is possible -- on Dominating difficulty, mind you -- to develop a Dodge & Evasion build that can push most enemies' chance to hit below 50% (preferably 10%, if not full immunity) by the time that the player commonly encounters them (e.g. a level 5 character dodging rathounds and burrowers in the early-game) without use of Uncanny Dodge & Evasive Maneuvers. Correct? This is what you are testing the viability of?
Doesn't that sound a little... unrealistic? This is the hardest difficulty in the game, mind you. It's called "DOMINATING," in all caps, for a reason. There's even a disclaimer on it that says "We do not guarantee that the game can be completed in this mode so choose at your own peril." It shouldn't be a cake-walk.
Yes on the surface the goal might seems overly ambitious, but the increased amount of enemies on dominating also means it's possible to power level. By cherry picking fights and easy quests I was able to reach level 14 beating depot A and level 17 just by exploring core city killing thugs and mutants. Combine max level w/ jumping beans, adrenaline, infused leather gear + boxing gloves it *might* be possible to reach my goal for everything pre-Tchortist. We'll see.
