Messages

166

General / Re: Stealth Build w/o crafting viable?

« on: February 17, 2018, 08:25:36 am »

Sure, I dont use speedhack. If I did, there would be little use for Interloper or Pack Rathound or Trap Expert of course, the external program will provide the quality of life we want. With the normal game speed, those feats are valuable.

About the sniper, yes, that can double as primary weapon. The pistol is still good, as silenced assassin weapon, at point blank range, moving and firing in/out of cover, and for great initiative.

Correct me if i'm wrong but i can't find where i wrote about dismissing pack rathound because of speedhack. I said - careful inventory management and gear that provides almost same benefit as the feat. Interloper speed boost is not that great that i would sacrifice my combat efficiency even without speedhack. Not on pistols.

So, basically, you have sniper with pistol as a side arm. SMG would be better in this case anyway. Better damage and can deal with more than one enemy in one turn.

Never said you dismissed Pack Rathound because of anything. If you have speedhack, you can zip around back and forth more easily, so less need for inventory management and Pack Rathound, that is why I mentioned it.

I would also prefer SMG as sidearm, of course. It is a lot better than pistol at raw damage, *especially* silenced. But the burst fire feats have little synergy with the sniper, and feats are tight already. The initiative from gunslinger is also very valuable. A glass cannon is pretty screwed if he is caught out of stealth and lose initiative.

167

General / Re: Stealth Build w/o crafting viable?

« on: February 17, 2018, 07:21:33 am »

Heh that is hard core, I love my quality of life. No way I'm ninjaing my way through the majority of Underrail without Interloper. Same thing goes for Pack Rathound btw, 3 STR needs it, trap user or not. And Trap Expert if you are into traps at all, 10 seconds cooldown on disarming your minefields is not cool.

It's not "hard core" it's called optimization. Interloper's effect on your speed while noticeable, is not that substantial, speedhack is way better anyway. Careful inventory management and infused pig leather boots help you with inventory capacity problem and trap expert was never even a consideration for me even on trap heavy characters. In combat you gonna use quick tinkering, or you prepare beforehand in such a way that they can't avoid stepping into trap if they want ot get close to you. Also, new version dropped cooldowns on traps anyway, so there are even less reasons to use this feat.

I happily sacrifice stuff like Kneecap Shot, Sprint, Point Shot if I have to, for those.

Then you are sacrificing your core efficiency for dubious gains. Some weapons can afford that and some not. Pistols are of the later.

But since you have used pistols quite a bit, did you go for a sniper rifle as backup weapon?

If you are using sniper rifles, it's more likely then will become your main weapon, even you wanted to use pistols. Pistols only.

That actually explains easiness in your sacrifice of important feats (except Sprint, which is optional). After all, with the use of SR, you might as well not take any pistol feats at all, except Gunslinger for initiative boost.

Sure, I dont use speedhack. If I did, there would be little use for Interloper or Pack Rathound or Trap Expert of course, the external program will provide the quality of life we want. With the normal game speed, those feats are valuable.

About the sniper, yes, that can double as primary weapon. The pistol is still good, as silenced assassin weapon, at point blank range, moving and firing in/out of cover, and for great initiative.

168

General / Re: Stealth Build w/o crafting viable?

« on: February 17, 2018, 06:15:53 am »

Quality of life feats are not for pistol builds.

Heh that is hard core, I love my quality of life. No way I'm ninjaing my way through the majority of Underrail without Interloper. Same thing goes for Pack Rathound btw, 3 STR needs it, trap user or not. And Trap Expert if you are into traps at all, 10 seconds cooldown on disarming your minefields is not cool.

I happily sacrifice stuff like Kneecap Shot, Sprint, Point Shot if I have to, for those.

But since you have used pistols quite a bit, did you go for a sniper rifle as backup weapon? Reading this thread has made me polish a pistol/sniper/traps/stealth assassin type of character, that I will take on a Hard Oddities run. Like to get some input.

169

General / Re: Stealth Build w/o crafting viable?

« on: February 16, 2018, 09:23:48 pm »

Okay, you are on to something, but I would consider the following points if I were you:

-Interloper
Lvl2+ feat, requires 7 agility, 20 stealth. Reduces your stealth movement penalty from 45% to 30% I think, and let you retain 15 movement points when you enter combat from stealth, instead of zero.
This is not mandatory for you, as you have an insanely high initiative and should preferably initiate combat without stealth (so you have all your MPs) when you can. However: if you find that you get really tired of the low walking speed in stealth, it is a great quality of life feat. You can save at a levelup, and try it out for a bit to see if you like it.

-Sharpshooter
You want it, as stated above. With critical power, you will get great aimed shots and ambushes. You can take it rather late.

-Execute
I would skip it. If you can immobilize someone at close range, they are pretty much toast anyway. Use rapid fire instead to deal great damage at close range, and save a feat.

-Grenadier
Awesome for you, good that you have it - as you play you will realize that you need those grenades, a lot. 2 turn cooldown instrad of 4 turns is huge, get it at the first opportunity, lvl 4.


Ability points:
Looking good, but perhaps move a point each from INT and AGI over to PER, to increase perception to 11-12. Accuracy is pretty vital for you, as well as increased damage. You will find out if you are comfortable with 10, but is is a bit on the low side for my taste. Also, perception helps with detection, synergy with Paranoia. And you got no traps skill and 3 CON... you want to spot those traps, even with good evasion they will tear you to shreds if you step on the wrong landmine.

But in general you are looking good. The benefit of pistols is your great initiative, so make sure you use your first turn to your best advantage (= chuck your favourite grenade at your enemies and finish the most dangerous enemy first, then retreat into cover)

Ok, but what would you skip if I am to take Interloper for example. You only crossed out Execute, but suggested two new feats to put in.

What is your opinion on the viability of stealth without all the stealth feats? The larger caliber pistols can't be silenced anyways, so I am thinking...

Well, my personal opinion only, but I would drop Sprint. I know some guys swear by it for all circumstances, but I feel the same about Interloper.
Interloper gives you faster stealth, and a few MPs (15) when attacking from stealth. Sprint you can activate on your turn, and get 30 MPs for 2 turns.
I love moving around in stealth all the time, so Interloper is great quality of life.

Because your initiative is so good, as said before, you will almost always move first, and should try to start combat without stealth. You will then have all MPs avilable from your great agility and tabi boots, and that should be enough to get into cover. You are not melee who has to move to the enemy, or SMG who need to get into point blank range to hit something, you can shoot from a distance and go to nearby cover, so Sprint is kind of redundant as far as I see it.

Stealth is amazing because it enables you to enter an unknown hot zone undetected, and scout out the enemies, before entering the combat on your own terms. If one or more enemy has a patrol pattern taking them away from the rest, if there are roaming enemies like dogs etc, you can sneak up to them out of sight from the rest, enter combat and finish them off with your silenced weapon. (This is where your high burst damage special attacks shine.) It is great to be able to assassinate a lone enemy in one room without alerting all the rest, it makes a real difference to fight fewer enemies at once. Also, you can steal everything that is not nailed down, in plain sight of people.

It also feels cool to assassinate someone with a silenced weapon.

170

General / Re: Stealth Build w/o crafting viable?

« on: February 16, 2018, 06:22:27 pm »

I honestly would not recommend pistol without solid investment in crafting. Unfortunately not weapons were created equal, and pistol is much closer to the lower end (and believe me, i'm saying it with bleeding heart, since i love pistols too). And without crafting they are about half as good, which is you can imagine is...not very good at all. So you have to choose between your aversion to crafting and desire to play with pistols.


Well, that's about it. Hope i was of any help. Good luck and enjoy the game, it's not a perfect one but pretty good at scratching that "old school" itch)

Ok, thanks again.

I feel like I have made my decision then:

http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQMOCAMKAwXChzIAACjCh8KHeEvChwBfXwAAQQAAAAAAABcBHlsxJlkRKEtOFjkC


To bring this thread to a close, would that build carry me through?

Okay, you are on to something, but I would consider the following points if I were you:

-Interloper
Lvl2+ feat, requires 7 agility, 20 stealth. Reduces your stealth movement penalty from 45% to 30% I think, and let you retain 15 movement points when you enter combat from stealth, instead of zero.
This is not mandatory for you, as you have an insanely high initiative and should preferably initiate combat without stealth (so you have all your MPs) when you can. However: if you find that you get really tired of the low walking speed in stealth, it is a great quality of life feat. You can save at a levelup, and try it out for a bit to see if you like it.

-Sharpshooter
You want it, as stated above. With critical power, you will get great aimed shots and ambushes. You can take it rather late.

-Execute
I would skip it. If you can immobilize someone at close range, they are pretty much toast anyway. Use rapid fire instead to deal great damage at close range, and save a feat.

-Grenadier
Awesome for you, good that you have it - as you play you will realize that you need those grenades, a lot. 2 turn cooldown instrad of 4 turns is huge, get it at the first opportunity, lvl 4.


Ability points:
Looking good, but perhaps move a point each from INT and AGI over to PER, to increase perception to 11-12. Accuracy is pretty vital for you, as well as increased damage. You will find out if you are comfortable with 10, but is is a bit on the low side for my taste. Also, perception helps with detection, synergy with Paranoia. And you got no traps skill and 3 CON... you want to spot those traps, even with good evasion they will tear you to shreds if you step on the wrong landmine.

But in general you are looking good. The benefit of pistols is your great initiative, so make sure you use your first turn to your best advantage (= chuck your favourite grenade at your enemies and finish the most dangerous enemy first, then retreat into cover)

171

General / Re: A few SMG questions

« on: February 12, 2018, 07:10:47 am »

Personally, rapid reloader is a waste of a spot that could go to something else. If you run out of ammo then you should have another smg on the switch. Smart module and barrel compensator are the best combo i think as most of the time you'll want to be bursting people down.

Hm? Base AP cost reduction is great when it allows for an extra burst per turn, far from being a waste of a slot.

Ah I misunderstood what rapid relaoder does, I thought it was a -20% AP cost to reloading

Yep, though on paper the muzzle break can make you release an absolute hailstorm of bullets, more than one extra burst from the reloader.

In practice though, muzzle break/full-auto will have you empty your magazine in record time and overkill enemies with little health left, (wasting bullets) so more, shorter bursts is probably better.

172

Bugs / Silencer works with other muzzle enhancements

« on: February 09, 2018, 10:01:32 am »

The various muzzle enhancements can not work together, so it says in wiki and when you try to craft.

But I currently sport a silenced muzzled 5mm jaguar that I crafted myself, without problem.
The compensator also work with the silencer. However, the compensator and muzzler do not work together, so the mechanic is in place.

So this is either a bug, or the wiki is obsolete regarding the silencer.

173

General / Re: skill point / build ? for a relative UnderRail noob

« on: February 08, 2018, 12:43:29 pm »

Taser is good, just have some kind of backup plan, like ability to survive one round or movement to get away if you rely on the stun, because it can be resisted (fortitude check?).

174

General / Re: A few SMG questions

« on: February 07, 2018, 08:31:59 pm »

Hmm I also tested #1. For science. Crafted the SMG with different parts and aimed at a SGS sentry, from the same tile.

Results:
(Excuse the messy copy paste table)

Steel Cat 8.6   Normal %    Burst %
plain      78      34
laser sight   88      39
forward grip   78      42
compensator   78      46
grip+comp   78      54
l.s-+grip   88      47
l.s-+comp   88      52


As we can see, laser sight increase hit % of normal shots by 10%, just as expected.

However, the forward grip and compensator does not increase burst presicion by a flat 10%, 15% or 25 %, but rather 8%, 12% and 20%. Furthermore, the laser sight also add 5% to the burst fire hit %, cumulative with the others when combined.

When changing the distance/base hit%, the burst fire hit% from all components also changes.

In conclusion:

-Laser sight is pretty cool, it also helps with burst fire, though not as much as the forward grip or compensator.
-Burst fire hit % calculations are pretty complicated.
-Use Rapid Reloader/Silencer and Smart Module anyway.

175

General / Re: A few SMG questions

« on: February 07, 2018, 06:45:09 pm »

Thanks

But are you certain about #2?

In a flash of inspiration, I decided to answer my own question and checked the AP table for Assault Rifles, in whe wiki. There, the APs are listed with and without Rapid Reloaders, and they clearly round everything up! So 12.1 => 13, etcetera.
I hope you are right and the wiki is wrong.

176

General / A few SMG questions

« on: February 07, 2018, 08:46:08 am »

Hello

Some questions related to how the game works, while thinking about SMGs.

1.
Laser Sight gives 10% bonus to "presicion".
Forward Grip gives 10% bonus to "burst presicion"
Barrel Compensator gives 15% bonus to "burst presicion"

It is rather obvious what burst presicion does, but the laser sight, does it give 10% presicion bonus to everything including burst fire?
If so, a laser sight is always superior to the forward grip, if you must choose one of these?

2.
How does the game round AP cost when using a Rapid Reloader?
Say I craft a Steel Cat 8.6mm with rapid reloader. APs go from 16 to 12.8. Do the game round down to 12, or up to 13?

Thanks!

177

General / Re: skill point / build ? for a relative UnderRail noob

« on: January 31, 2018, 05:42:30 pm »

A point of advice also.
Lots of character build suggestions have CON=3. This is risky, and you will have to reload some times when the crap hits the fan, you step on a mine, get hit by a grenade, someone stealthy decide to carve you up into tiny spagetthi etc.

If you go with 3 CON, I advise you to have some other form of defense, for your own sanity's sake. High Dodge/Evasion, heavy armor and/or good initiative helps.

For reference, I think the difference between 3 and 10 CON is roughly twice the HPs.

178

General / Re: skill point / build ? for a relative UnderRail noob

« on: January 30, 2018, 04:55:44 pm »

I was going to give some constructive criticism, but noticed you are onto an interesting playstyle.

Stick to the shadows, hit the enemy with pyro, then ambush for a healthy dose of critical hits.

You already have critical power and elemental bolts, but man you should take the premeditation feat. AP free pyro in turn 1 is gold for you. Also you really should take sharpshooter, it will give those criticals a whole new meaning.

EDIT: Ah, forget about it, you also need pyromaniac to make those pyros burn - and chance is not guaranteed. But you should still consider premeditation and sharpshooter, with your build.

179

Bugs / Re: Electrokinetic Imprint targeting routine

« on: January 23, 2018, 07:13:17 am »

Doesn't the same thing happen with Quick Tinkering?

Pretty sure that Quick Tinkering will show a red warning outline around the square in question if it is occupied.

180

Other Games / Re: Pillars of Eternity!

« on: January 09, 2018, 01:27:55 pm »

It's hot garbage.  I was expecting bg3 and I got nothing of the sort.  It has some good ideas, and I like some of the locations, but overall it's a very unsatisfying game.  I regret buying it.

I agree. Tried to like it but it really is not a good game, one of very few games I wish I never bought.

Had to by Underrail twice, to attone for my sin of buying PoE.