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Messages - TheAverageGortsby

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646
General / Finally got around to trying Salesman and it's pretty good!
« on: February 21, 2018, 06:18:13 pm »
I mean, obviously it's not an OP game changer but Fixer in particular becomes an awesome medical merchant with Salesman.  Goofing around with a ridiculously limited build which ends up popping chems like a Skyrim character eating cheese wheels, and the ability to go back to Fixer and buy his chem pistol parts, assemble them, and sell 3-4 of them back to him for so much profit that I can also pick up all his medicines and still break even on the trade is really very helpful.  Also clears out a lot of that not-quite-bad-enough-to-scrap, not-quite-good-enough-to-repair gear that might otherwise not get sold.

Anyone got any input on how well Disassemble would go with Salesman?  It *sounds* like Disassemble would be best for low-Mercantile builds, sort of opposite to Salesman.  May give it a shot anyway next time I'm up late not sleeping ;)

647
General / Re: Stealth Build w/o crafting viable?
« on: February 17, 2018, 08:35:22 am »
Nope, you can't. Sorry, i don't want to be too antagonistic, it's just that i made at least three successful Hard runs with different pistol character
Well, similarly I don't want to be too antagonistic, but Hard runs are no measure of success.  Beating Hard once you know the game is probably doable with anything short of intentionally weakened trick builds.  Getting as far as the Mushroom Forest, at the very least, certainly is.  And you do use cheats so your experience with the game is different than the real game.

Now, your Dominating win, that's what makes me take your opinion seriously regarding firearms.

648
Bugs / Re: Force Field ends at different points during the turn
« on: February 16, 2018, 08:46:30 pm »
Maybe some baddie has bested you on initiative roll?
Hm, yeah, could be.  I was fighting Psi Beetles, so their initiative is like "ehhh, tomorrow" but perhaps I rolled a 1 and they rolled a 15.  I'll pay more attention to that.  Thanks for the clarification.

EDIT: Sure enough, that was it.  Sort of an embarrassing thing to fail to notice, honestly.  Thanks for pointing it out to me.  I had gotten so accustomed to my Psi character with Paranoia + Gunslinger that I completely forgot how much different it would be to have a mere 11 Initiative, instead of 29.  Sorry for the thread.  PEBKAC.

649
General / Re: Stealth Build w/o crafting viable?
« on: February 16, 2018, 08:37:29 pm »
Considering my build I have already planned out a heavy investment into pistol feats so it would be kind of dumb not to take the best weapon available for my build, wouldn't it?

My question therefore is if it's still worth investing into stealth this much if the weapon cannot be silenced or does it contradict the idea of stealth gameplay?
Yes, invest into stealth.  Stealth is a very powerful tool.  Your character has two hands.  You can hold a stealthy weapon in one hand, and a loud weapon in the other.  Once a fight is well underway, especially if you've used a grenade or something, you've made so much noise that it doesn't much matter how loud your gun is.  So have one weapon for pewpew and another for ending things fast and loud.

650
General / Re: Stealth Build w/o crafting viable?
« on: February 16, 2018, 08:26:13 pm »
I see. From what I've read from the Wiki Hammerer can't be silenced because it's not 5mm caliber.
Won't this render my whole stealth approach useless?

Would you therefore recommend to move some points from stealth over to chemistry for grenade crafting or electronics for the EMP stuff?
Sorry, that first part wasn't meant for you.  I was splitting that post between replying to Mirddin and replying to you.  Others have given you good advice about your choice of weapons, and your build looked pretty good.  I was just pointing out that if you wanted to free up some points to do other things, you had a few places where you have more points invested than you need.

I know the game pretty well as psi, but I'm not the expert about gun builds.  You seem to have a good idea for your character, and if you really are planning to play on Normal, then you'll do just fine.  Normal difficulty will maybe kill you a few times until you know what to expect, but it's forgiving enough that you don't have to optimize too heavily if you don't want.

I'll give you a spoiler-free bit of non-character advice, though - rekindle those old-school habits of saving your game in different slots.  There are two points in the game where you can really put yourself in a no-return kind of situation.  It's the worst bit of design in the game because it isn't clear enough that you won't have a way out if you continue following the story.  One point is in Core City.  The other is in the Institute.  Don't just rely on quicksave/autosave.  More than one person has shown up on the Steam forums, saying they uninstalled UnderRail in anger because they got stuck with no way to recover.

651
Bugs / Force Field ends at different points during the turn
« on: February 16, 2018, 07:37:20 pm »
Does Force Field have an initiative now?  It always used to be that when it would go away, it would be right at the beginning of my turn, so I had protection during the enemy turn. But recently, it's been sometimes ending right at the beginning of the enemy turn, which is much less helpful.  It does stay for the correct number of turns, it's just odd that it ends at different points during the turn sequence.

652
General / Re: Stealth Build w/o crafting viable?
« on: February 16, 2018, 07:10:54 pm »
Strange, it seems like you are saying that in case of other calibers SMGs are not always superior to pistols. But you can't be saying that. That would be madness.
I think you could make a case for a Hammerer.  5mm does so little damage per shot that you're at the mercy of resist/threshold even with W2C, but a Hammerer, especially a crafted one, is going to pump out enough damage that a special attack will blow through even very high resistances in a way that even burst fire from a SMG won't.  I still haven't played enough with specific handgun builds to argue this point strongly, but I do think that a case can be made for the 9mm and .44 Hammerer being buildable to have superior performance in special cases.  And of course, with the right skills, feats, and positioning, you can arrange to have special cases arise several times each fight.

But as I mentioned to you earlier in a different thread, my only gun Dominating run was SMG, so I am a proponent of the general superiority of them.  I just suspect you can do some very nice things with the right pistol if you've set it up properly.

Ofc I am open to any suggestions or improvements regarding the build-link I posted above.
If you're interested in squeezing a few points out of that build, aside from taking about 50 real points out of Pickpocketing as Mirddin suggested, you've got about 20 more points in Lockpicking than you strictly need.  You'll find a small, lightweight knife in your travels that will somewhat improve your ability to pop open locks, and you'll find many lockpicks which will help as well.  Plus you may discover that you want to buy and carry around a bunch of food.  The stat buffs food offers are very handy when things get tough.  47 real points in Tailoring with 5INT gets you 50 effective Tailoring, which is what you want if you're taking Tailoring for making the improved repair kits.

653
General / Re: Stealth Build w/o crafting viable?
« on: February 16, 2018, 10:48:09 am »
not sure if pistol or smg for stealth...

Thanks for the travel advices but I am already going to Crete this year. :)
If you want a stealthy gun, you're going to need a silenced gun.  If you're going to use a silenced gun, you're going to have to use a 5mm barrel, since silencers only work on those.  Since you're using a 5mm, SMGs will almost always be superior to pistols unless you somehow do not have the required skill (and you will, if you put points into Guns).  [EDIT: I should add though that you do have two hands, and carrying an SMG in one and a pistol in the other is not a bad choice at all, especially if you intend to give yourself many opportunities to use Execute]  [OK one last thing.  In your build idea from a few posts above, you shouldn't take Snooping on a build with 10 Perception.  It's a waste of a feat.]

Crete is lovely.  Enjoy it all  :D

Just remember throwing skills does not increase grenade damage as it only increase throwing accuracy.
May I nitpick?  with Three Pointer, Throwing increases your crit frequency noticeably which does, taken in average, increase your damage.  That's why I said it was necessary for a highly grenade-reliant build, especially one without enough crafting to make the Tier V grenades.

654
General / Re: Stealth Build w/o crafting viable?
« on: February 15, 2018, 02:31:13 pm »
UnderRail is largely a combat game.  So what you're suggesting for your build is a little weak, not because it's nonsensical, but because you don't have as much freedom to avoid encounters in UnderRail as you did in the old Fallouts, for example (well, aside from Tactics, obviously...)   Let me syllogize you briefly. that's not really a word btw

Crafting results in greatly superior gear to purchased/found gear.
You want to minimize the effects on your character from a no-crafting build.
Therefore, you need a build that is not gear-reliant.

The most powerful non-crafting character you can make is a stealth psi character.  Psi is heavily reliant on stats and skills, and only barely concerns itself with equipment.  But you don't want psi, so what can you do to avoid relying on crafted gear?

You should probably invest in Mercantile.  Mercantile will not only give you better deals on equipment, but it will also open up additional stocks in many shopkeepers, so you'll have more opportunities for them to have what you need.
You should probably invest in traps.  Traps are easy to acquire (with good traps skill, they literally grow on the ground like weeds! Just pick 'em up!), cheap to purchase, and you don't need a whole lot of them.
   As a corollary to that, you should look at Quick Tinkering as a feat.  It may interest you if you decide to build into Traps skill.
If you want to find every hidden passage, you're going to need to put one more point in Perception, and you're also going to need to take the Snooping feat, and also carry the Perception-boosting goggles.  11 effective Perception is what you need. (if you use your suggested stat spread, you can put your first stat point into Per and you won't miss anything - the high Perception secrets come later in the game)
If you're willing to invest just 60 points into Chemistry (you need 69 effective), and 10 points into Mechanics and Tailoring, you'll be able to make your own grenades.  Flashbangs, HE, frags, incendiaries.  Incendiaries are immensely helpful and I suspect you could win the game on Normal using nothing but grenades and throwing knives.  Maybe even on Hard.
If you plan on using traps and grenades a lot, you'll probably be avoiding melee as much as possible.  Thus, you should invest heavily into Evasion and somewhat into Dodge.  Escape Artist will be your friend since you won't want people to get into melee with you.

Interloper is pretty much strictly QoL.  It's nice to have, but you don't need it.  If you decide you're going to invest heavily into throwing, you *do* need to pick up Grenadier and Three-Pointer for grenades.  You should also put a couple of the stat points from levelling up into Dexterity since that's going to make your thrown attacks better.  Throwing builds are objectively weaker tier builds, and you need to get the most bang for your buck, figuratively (and literally, in-game).

I know you don't want crafting, but you seriously may want to think about getting 25 effective skill in Tailoring and Mechanics, or even 50 if you're willing to go that far.  The reason for this is if you can craft your own repair kits, the game economy will be much, much more forgiving.  Repairing items before you sell them increases their value.  Repairing your own equipment will become necessary eventually and buying repair kits gets pricey, especially early on. Some merchants buy them, and their value is high and weight low.  If you're on Easy or Normal, maybe it won't matter, but if you plan to play on Hard or Dominating with your already self-nerfed build, you really will find having a supply of repair kits (and grenades, as mentioned earlier) to be very helpful.

655
General / Re: Build for Hard difficuty
« on: February 12, 2018, 01:20:22 am »
Well ,just as i suspected. Psi build and grenade/quick tinkering focused build.
Not quite.  Grenades and QT are always useful but calling that second build focused on them is wrong.  It's focused on using over 100AP a turn (with procs obviously) and creating bullet storms large enough to wash away the enemy.  For the investment cost, Grenadier and QT are awfully attractive for literally every build on Dominating, so unless you're going to call half the builds grenade/QT focused, I'd call it a lower-DEX SMG build.  I mean, the whole point of Dominating is to be hard enough that you should need to use every tool at your disposal.

But about psi, yeah.  If you're willing to forego the big damage numbers, and play the field tactically, it's always going to be strong enough to win unless it gets nerfed unbelievably.

656
General / Re: Build for Hard difficuty
« on: February 11, 2018, 05:50:12 pm »
Did you actually finished Dominating like this? What kind of build it was?
Yep.
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQMIAwMDEAoPHgAAAAAAUEIASlVkJENVS8KHwocfAEIrKBc_FCoWLj0hMGRXJCk  Flat, predictable damage.  High abuse of force fields.  Won.
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQMKCgMKAwfCh8KHAAAAAAAAPABuwod4VV94AAAAAABVKDEZFjA5RyZTN0k-USQ  Mostly a silly build but demonstrates that with enough explosions, all problems are solvable.  Finishing up IoT quests, no idea if winnable.

657
General / Re: Build for Hard difficuty
« on: February 11, 2018, 10:14:23 am »
5str is also to carry supersteel and tichrome shields without penalty, not only for steadfast aim. As for persuation and mercantile, who knows where it will go in expansion? And thats when i am actually plan to start a new run.
In that case you may want to hold off on the theorycrafting until you see what the various changes, like Specialization points, come with the expansion.  It may well be that some new build possibilities that would be absolutely suboptimal right now will be strong in the expansion.

658
General / Re: Build for Hard difficuty
« on: February 11, 2018, 10:09:44 am »
Stealth is a must, you are not a tanky build (5 con and riot armor aren't gonna cut it) and without stealth you are a sitting duck, so unless you like to reload a lot, i would suggest putting considerable amount of points in there.
I have to say, if you play carefully you don't actually need any defenses even on Dominating.  No dodge, no evasion, no stealth.  And with the build OP is suggesting, fitting in Paranoia and Gunslinger sounds workable, so that the PC would pretty much always go first. As you point out, plasma is sort of situational so it might be possible to wander around with a firearm in hand and swap to energy when fights start.   

Of course Stealth is a very useful thing to have, who doesn't love assassinating enemies by the score, but I can't believe it's a must for any build other than stealth melee, commando, or stealth sniper.

659
General / Re: Build for Hard difficuty
« on: February 11, 2018, 09:51:16 am »
It's up to you of course but you only need 105 effective Mercantile and 110 Persuasion to unlock everything - with 3 WIL & 7 INT that could free up 95 points for other skills (108 real Persuasion, 67 real Mercantile @lvl20+).  Otherwise sounds like a fine build.  Also won't quite need to max Tailoring if you don't want - with housing bonus 110 real points should be enough for anything you want to craft.

Hard is workable with almost any build as long as you're comfortable with the mechanics and have a focused build - which you do.  Sounds like it should work fine.

I should add - you may want a little more INT and to invest in High Technicalities.  I haven't played it yet but people who have and know the feats say it's very handy to have stacked with some DEX and PER for energy builds.  Sorry, forgot that point.

Late edit: fixed typo about skill points in first line

660
Bugs / Re: Problem with "throwing" attacks
« on: February 10, 2018, 12:06:23 am »
Are you sure it happens with throwing nets? Because those cannot go to random tiles, but are always landing on the target, whether they hit or miss.
Well, the net one was first and was several weeks ago.  The grenade and pyrokinesis were this week so I'm certain of those.  I'll certainly accept that I could be wrong about my memory of the nets.  I don't trust this rattly old brain any further than I can throw it, and it's attached >.<

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