Messages

46

Builds / Re: Versatility build - Chemical pistol / Crossbow Build (expedition updated)

« on: August 01, 2019, 10:28:19 am »

Actually, the Advanced Catalyzing belt is really important in the build, not because of the damage, but because of the AP reduction on shots of 4. Combined with 8 dext and a powerfull crossbow.

[22 (Cost of Acid pistol shot with 8 dext) - 4 (Advanced catalyzing belt)]*1,5 (Cooked shot AP cost multiplier) = 27 AP
25 (AP cost of Zephyr Crossbow) - 4 (Pneumatic version) = 21 AP

27AP + 21 AP = 48 AP
Allowing you to Cooked shot + Special crossbow shot on the same turn.
So you aim for a group a bad guys. With Cooked shot, you multiply your chance of having a snare, since the 45% snare apply on each target.

And then, you eliminate the whole groupe thanks to a 100% critical chance on let's say, a MK3 Shock bolt.

One might say, you go with a cyclon Pneumatic Cyclon Crossbow and go to 17 AP with the crossbow shot, allowing the trick without the belt.
22 * 1.5 = 33
33 + 17 = 50
Works as well.

But I even prefer to combine both Cyclon Crossbow + Catalyzing belt to do :
18 AP on classic pistol shot + 17 AP on crossbow shot = 35 AP

35 AP means when Cooked shot is on CD, you can do a lot of stuff like taking a medecine for 10 AP, Using a lot of Psi abilities for 15 AP (Electrokinetic Imprint / Force field / etc).

35 AP also mean that you can still do that trick, even when Fatigue after an Adrenaline Rush.

Or it means that you can do the trick with the Specilization point into cooked shot to reduce AP cost.

***

But then ... I just realized yesterday that the Bolt Quiver belt exist (I missed it mainly because I was testing other things during the alpha), and it allow a lot of new combo.

With it, you can bring the Pneumatic Cyclon Crossbow to 14 AP cost.
And as you can see
14 + 14 + 22 (AP cost of a chemical pistol shot with 8 dext) = 50.

Then, you'll need the Specialization points into cooked shot to reduce the AP cost of cooked shot to 100%.

And magic, you just double your possible damage, and mostly you'll do a trick like this.

Turn A - Cooked shot, Crossbow shot, crossbow shot, move out of LOS
Turn B - As cooked shot will be on CD, you throw a grenade instead, and Crossbow shot two times.
Turn C - Cooked shot is available again ...

And so on.

but I have some more test to do to tweak this perfectly.

47

Builds / Versatility build - Chemical pistol / Crossbow Build (expedition updated)

« on: July 30, 2019, 10:24:57 am »

UPDATE - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1662842028
I started to update my guide on steam with expedition, still WIP but there is essential information.

I managed to beat the game with a very similar build on hard few mouth ago, and everything went really smoothly.

https://underrail.com/forums/index.php?topic=3881.0

Depot A was piece of cake, foundry beasts was like a walk in the park, nevil and I against an army of bots was done in one go, arena was fairly easy (though with a lot of reload for the final encounter... But once I got the initiative, it was done in one go), DC itself was easy mushroom or army of bots could'nt wistand the powerfull acid entanglment combo + powerfull special bolt in the face.

Every fight was easy... Every but one. The final boss was a pain in the ass (mainly because that big blob bastard could not be snared) and that's the reason why I think this build was not able to finish the game on dominating, even if I'm quite sure it will bring me, even on dominating, in front of the final boss.

And then, come the expedition... And new ideas, and a new updated build i'm first trying on hard, and I hope I'll beat dominating with it.

http://underrail.info.tm/build/?HgMIBwMOAwgjN8KgAADCoGQASwBGWl9fRloALQA3AAAtKxrCowFhFiLCkcKAL0wwS2oqJyTCpCbioaQF4qiICt-_

The whole thing is built around deadly snare + acidic entanglment from acid pistol. Giving access to critical hits with special bolts.
And to do the trick, we'll use pneumatic AA cyclon crossbow + acid pistol plus advanced catalyzing belt

But this only comes at level 14, and it has to be potent enough before hand. And as a matter of fact, it is.

I'll explain every choices made, and how to play the build. But trust me, you'll have a lot of fun playing that glass canon build.

Feat choices :
-Versatility : it's a core feat, used to be able to use both crossbow and acid pistol. Plus it will help early game against rathound, if you come across a knife.
-sure step : it's really important to pull the acid puddle + caltrops combo. With good poisoned caltrops, you can do a ton of damage on multiples target, regroup them thanks to AP reduction and kite them avoiding any melee attackers.
Plus it will cheese a lot depot A, Omega and some early fights. An overall good choice.
-aimed shot : Even if it seems obvious, maybe it's not needed. However, it's nice to have a powerfull attack on a solo target. It's nearly quality of life because most of the time you could "waste" a fragnade instead. Won't be that usefull early game, but late game will prove more usefull once you'll get a strong AA crossbow.
-marksman : well... You'll use a lot of special bolts, so... It's a no brainer. Plus, it will replace strafe feat, once you'll get the specialization for it.
-grenadier : here the big change. At first, one might think it's stupid to have grenadier since all your slots will be used by special bolts. But with the addition of temporal manipulation and a grenade every turn, well it's really potent.
Anyway, you'll have to prepare to every fight by choosing : the most suited special bolt, the most suited grenade and the most suited utility grenade (caltrops, flashbang, emp). And thanks to Quickpocket we'll get later, even with catalyzing belt, easy to get enough slots.
-cooked shot : well... Great feat. You'll be able to ignore targets evasion. You'll do AOE damage and snares. You'll multiply the chance to get acidic entanglement. You'll be able to spread acid over caltrops out of combat.
-bowyer : +35% critical damage on crossbow is a lot.
-Quick pockets : Not needed early game because you'll be using a utility belt. But at one point, you'll use an advanced catalazing belt, and you'll then need that third slot.
-Deadly Snare : everything revolve around this feat.
Once you'll have this, you'll be Deadly.
-Quick tinkering : almost everyone know it's a great feat. And if this build was not that dire on feats, i'll take it earlier.
It's both a defensive feat that allow road blocks especially combined with force field or electronic imprint.
And offensive one if used with a powerful mine you drop in front of targets, run, and then explode thanks to a grenade.
-Critical power : Well, I'll rename it Deadlier Snare.
-Elemental bolts : Let's rename it... Even Deadlier Snare.
-Premeditation : Will give a free action every five turn. Great utility to get a stun with electrokinesis, or a life saving forcefield.
-Pack Rathound : If I could, I'll get this earlier. 3 Str character are a pain in the ass for inventory management. This will help, and you'll need it to get to DC. However, it's quality of life and i'm sure one can do without it. But you'll get to carry less loot and less traps and grenades.
-Nimble : early game, you'll use the Rathound king armor suit, so armor penalty of 0. but you'll be happy to still have armor penalty of 0 with a Phantom Dancer armor or a regenerative tactical vest. But this will only be needed end game.
-Scrutinous : +7 crit chance, with good crit NVG you can reach 30% crit chance with your acid pistol. Very potent with cooked shot if you get an entanglement.
And why I'm not taking +2 perception one might ask... Well I'm not sure. The main issue is that perception do not bring extra damage with special bolts (only mechanical damages are affected by it), so the effect is not that great. It will bring damage on the acid pistol though, but I prefer the crit chance somewhat.
-Opportunist : Extra 30% damage on snared targets, for really really tough targets.

48

Suggestions / Re: Hotbar

« on: July 28, 2019, 01:42:57 pm »

Another issue is :
I have a very wide screen, and only 10 actions on the hotbar seems not enough compared to my hardware. An option to extend to 12 or 15 to accomodate with larger screens.

49

Other Games / Re: Fallout 1.5: Resurrection

« on: July 22, 2019, 02:48:48 am »

This game is really nice overall,
A game really dark and hard as fallout 1 but with fallout 2 upgraded mechanics. Everything is nice in this game,

You should also check fallout of nevada, a bit less good averall, but a bigger game. Both mods require to be played by any fallout 1 and 2 fan.

50

Suggestions / Re: New Psi School - PARABIOSIS

« on: July 18, 2019, 02:34:38 pm »

Even if it seems the proposed psi spells would be OP, I have to admit that a psi school around mutations, metabolism and acid seems like a seducing idea.

51

Builds / Re: Start a new run for the extension : Psy build help

« on: July 17, 2019, 07:04:56 am »

Basicaly everything that TheaverageGortsby said is great advices.

If there is one psi school you want to max out, it's methathermics. The other two (even three soon) can have it's use with low score for unlocking utility psi abilities (force field, electrokinesis, basicaly everything except spammabld spells in thought control).

And yes... No point to put more than just enough in throwing if you don't take three pointer.

And once again. Take Locus of Control at level 14, not level 20.
The sole ability to get out of a stun is just so great. And an AOE enrage is just stupidly effective against large group.

And... Play oddity, really.
It's the way the game is meant to be played, it's, really an improvment compared to how XP is managed in other rpg.

52

Suggestions / Re: Intimidation - Rework

« on: July 16, 2019, 06:50:56 pm »

That's pretty minor, if I may say so.
Especially since there is flares and that you might have tool as a psy user to deal with these guys.

Force field, electrokinesis imprint, exothermic aura aura can do the trick pretty well.

53

Builds / Re: Start a new run for the extension : Psy build help

« on: July 16, 2019, 02:32:14 am »

It's true you can do without dodge or evasion as a psy. Though, I think it's more forgiving that way.

However I agree, most of the advices are maybe not perfect for min maxing, but will definitely work on normal.

54

Builds / Re: Start a new run for the extension : Psy build help

« on: July 16, 2019, 01:37:03 am »

So, I study your build a bit. It's maybe not optimized, but I'm sure it could work on normal.

What I would change :
Take Three pointer feat and get more in throwing. The more you'll have in throwing, the more you'll be able to crit with grenades (And a
crit with a grenade is really game changer), certainly at level 12.
Take Locus of Control at level 14. It's really powerfull, you cannot postponed it so late.
Put points in Chemestry, you'll need this to craft grenades and incendary grenades of top quality.

So you have to dump points somewhere.
You can - have "only" 75 in thought control just to have Locus of Control, more can be useless since you have other powerfull damage dealing capabilities. Thought control is great for crowd control, especially with a LOC enrage.
You can - Put a bit less point in one of the two defensive abilities. Let's say, you try to stun/kill in priority melee opponents, or kite them through caltrops. So you don't need that much in dodging.
You can - Forget about Methathermics. Anyway, methathermics will ONLY work if maxed out. It's almost pure damage dealing, not maxed out = not effective.

So, to say.
Choose between Methathermics or Psychokinesis to deal damage.
Use grenades on tough fights to keep Psy points.
Keep Thought control at 75 or a bit more for crowd control and LOC.
If you choose to go Methathermics, you can still go psychokinesis at 40 to get Force field, electrokinesis, and TK punch. It will be usefull. But then, don't take force user feat, choose thermodynamicity instead.

Take Psi Feats in only one psi discipline, unless very good reason.

To help you choose between Metathermics or Psychokinesis.
Psychokinesis :
Strong one target damage with TK punch.
Very good stuns that do either high damage or can stun bots.
Very good utility with force field
Stealth kills are possible.
But it kinda have high cooldown or psi cost.


Metathermics :
Very strong multi targets with Thermodynamic Destabilization or Cryokinetic Orb
Spammable light attacks with great range that can finish off wounded targets
Cryokinetic Orb is also very good on one target only.
Exothermics Aura is really fun to use.

Test the spells you like, and take feat according to that.

You should suceed with that.

55

Suggestions / Intimidation - Rework

« on: July 15, 2019, 04:34:54 pm »

Now, Intimidation is not really usefull, and the rare feats that make a use for it are not really nice (Including the new stuff we get in the DLC).
Plus, we kinda have an issue as it need will and if you have high will, you'll tend to use PSI, and therefore it is way smarter to take Thought control to have access to fears as well.

So, I was thinking of a total rework of intimidation into something totally new and rework a bit the IA.

The first step of this rework would be to add the possibilities for ennemies to sometimes flee. Each IA would sometimes drop combat if several conditions are met, like :
-Low health
-A teammate just died
-Their abilities are on cooldown
-They can not attack you (Maybe you're hiding behind a force field)
-They need to reload

Some other conditions will prevent fleeing :
-You are low on health
-You used a lot of CD recently
-There is no place to flee (They are cornered or something like this)

If enough "Fear factor" are met, the IA just flee away, try to heal up / Restealth and then come back.

Of course, each enemies would have different behaviors, some will flee easily (Like rathound, that also have that special fleeing away from fire), some other will never flee (bots, for instance).

So it would both help the player sometimes, and sometimes be bothersome.

And Intimidation would come into this mechanic.
High intimidation would make it more likely that an ennemy IA will flee and he will be feared for a longer duration.

Such a mechanic would need a LOT of work, and be tuned a lot to be good. But, I'm sure there is something to do around that.

56

General / Re: expedition requirements in terms of progression

« on: July 15, 2019, 11:07:14 am »

I'm not 100% sure of my answer here and I can't say much..
What I can say is that it's really light and should not be an issue. Maybe you already have it at level 12, the main issue is to have a well equiped and skilled enough character.

57

Builds / Re: Start a new run for the extension : Psy build help

« on: July 15, 2019, 01:59:49 am »

Would a build like this be better?

http://underrail.info.tm/build/?AQMGAwMGCgkPDwAAAAAADw8AAA8AAAAPAA8PAAAAJ0g

Maybe I should be more precise in terms of what kind of build I want to play (if possible):

Major:
Offensive psy
Craft & Great Speech
Lock/Hack

Secondary
Pistol (or distance weapon)
Grenade

Does that make sense? And again, sorry if my build sucks. This game is hard (I suffered a lot during my 1st run) so that's why I need useful feedback from all you.

Thanks ! 

Well, there is a lot to say on your build, but actually you lack some knowledge about the game to be proefficient with your build. Let's try to give you the good advices.

Packrathound at level 1 is pretty useless, even if I kinda like the trait on a STR 3 character, you won't need this trait so early.
Plus, Packrathound tend to be important for trappers builds that have to carry A LOT of heavy traps. You won't need it much since you have PSI that weight basicaly nothing to be efficient.

Clothier, also useless at level 1. Among all the crafting trait, maybe one of the less important. Yet it has its usefullness with a ninja build with very high stealth (To craft great bataclava and nice overcoat), since you don't have agility, it does not seem to be your goal here.
And, a crafting trait at level 1 is maybe not usefull as well, you won't be able to craft good things yet.

About Intel, 9 is not really proper. I would drop to 7.
At 7 you have all the crafting feats, so it should be enough.

About Constitution and Agility at 3.
In Underrail there is mainly three ways to avoid being killed.
1 - Having high constitution and strenght to have high armor and HP to resist damages.
2 - Having high agility to have great dodge and evasion to evade all attacks
3 - Having high agility to have stealth and very powerfull attacks to be able to oneshot people and take down enemies one by one.
3,5 - Having the ability to kite (NOT EASY TO DO SUCCESSFULLY) but it require some strange builds.

Sadly, you don't have any means to protect yourself and survive more than one turn against bad guys with let's say guns.

About the way you put yours stats. I think you first put your stats, and then check what feat you can take.
You should do otherwise. You look for the feats you want, and you check what stats you'll need. Then, you'll see how many stats points you have left to spare.

Before doing any builds, you should :
1 - Aim for a good way to deal damages, and put 10 in the relevant stat.
2 - Having a proper defense mechanism
3 - See what you have left and see if you can take any Lockpicking/Hacking/Crafting/Speech.

So ... Here are for the general advices.

***

Concerning your specific request.

The first solution is to forget about using a gun and do this :
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?AQMHBwMDCgcADwAAAAAPDw8AAAAPAAAPAA8PAAAAYSQ

So to explain a bit :
7 Intelligence is enough you can get all the crafting feats. And you'll get hacking as well.
10 Will since it will be your main damage dealing with psi. Put every points there afterward, don't think to much first.
7 agility will give you Stealth and Defense
7 Dexterity will give you lockpicking and throwing.
(You can also put 8 in agility and 6 in dexterity, could work better)

Nimble - Really good as you'll aim for armor with low armor penalty (Less that 15) to have stealth and dodge/evasion, and you should be able to craft some good stuff out of Infused Siphoner Leather. (Look on the wiki what you can do as an armor with 15% armor penalty maximum.
Surestep - Personnal advice here. Depot B is a pain in the ass and it will help you a lot against acid. Plus, with caltrops that are unexpensive and easy to find, you can really cheese a lot of fights.
Just use caltrops to a. prepare a fight b. flee c. kill enemies on their patrol route (Work well on bots in Omega)
Don't forget you can throw the caltrops at your feet for 100% precision.

Then, what will you do past the first few levels.
You'll get psy empathy asap and get PSI to kill enemies.
And you'll have to :
1 - Craft a good energy shield
2 - Craft a good armor
3 - Craft / Find good grenades to be dangerous

Aim for feats like :
Grenadier (OP), Force User (Force field are OP, Kinetinetic Punch is very strong), Premeditation (OP as hell)

Don't forget, as well, with Force User, and Telekinetic Proxy + Telekinetic Punch you can usually one shot a lot of bad guys.
Used in combination with stealth, you can kill lonely guard in a compound to make the rest of the fight easy enough.

to have something like this at level 10
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?CgMHBwMDDAcAHgAAPDw8IzwAAAAAAAA3ADw8AAAAYSQrPxQqFmQ

After level 10, you can take all the crafting things you want and further take more PSI feats.
You could also, forget about Metathermics, and go with thought control, in order to get Locus of Control at level 14.
It's OP as well, but I think you could manage without it.

***

If you REALLY want to have a gun ... Well I have to think about a strange unusual build ... Challenge accepted ! I'll build something potent enough for normal.

EDIT :
Ok, I thought about it and I came with this build, however I'm not sure I would recommand it for anything else than easy !
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GAgHBgMDDAZubgAAAAAAAAAAAHgAAAAAbm4AAAAAKxcmOSgUKlsRIUUWPjok

It has psy for main offense. Psychokinesis for stuns and high damage through force user. Premeditation because you'll need it. And well ... Thought Control and Locus of Control, because it's OP and you'll need everything OP to get through with that kind of build.
It has a pistol for initiative through gunslider and "backup" with execute and rapid fire. Yes there is no perception, I know and I don't care ... Since you'll use the pistol on stun or otherwise incapacited targets meaning they won't have any evasion  (Plan to use Flashnades, Electrokinesis, Thought control, Kinetic Punch).
It has throwing and all the relevant grenade feats because well ... It won't be that easy so big ass grenades will help.
It has high strenght to be able to wear HEAVY armor and enough intelligence to make a good one.
It has enough agility to survive without armor at first (With stealth and even evasion/dodge) and have "Sprint" wich will be usefull once you'll have your heavy armor on.
I'm pretty sure you can get decent movement speed with the current agility, nimble and armor sloping with a supersteel armor.
And as a bonus, the big guy as relatively high initiative through Paranoia

Note that i'm pretty sure you can have a better build with new stuff from expedition that has to be shown yet, once confirmed i'll update accordingly the build.

58

General / Re: Heavy Punch is useless?

« on: July 02, 2019, 09:18:10 am »

Armor is mainly the answer.

It will, against armored foes, more than double the damage.

59

Builds / Re: So enjoyed what I played a long time ago, but dropped due to life. Build help!

« on: June 25, 2019, 07:51:29 pm »

Oh my gosh somebody actually uses it on mobile!

I do use on mobile as well... There is some issue with not proper user interface but usually it work well enough !

60

General / Re: Expedition alpha testing

« on: June 02, 2019, 02:17:32 pm »

I would like to apply as well for the testing...
I consider myself as a near veteran of the underrail... Especially with odd builds !