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Messages - Ravager

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46
Builds / Re: General advice for a stealthy assassin build
« on: September 12, 2019, 02:24:58 am »
Some tips:

-As advised above, use mines to deal with crowds. Specifically, use bear traps to trap a line of enemies, with explosive mines placed beyond them. So when one enemy 'frees' himself from the bear trap, he steps on the mine, which detonates the line / cluster of mines, which kills the line of trapped enemies.

-Bear traps are pretty powerful. They will stop big rats, Siphoners, armoured humans, stuff like that. So don't be afraid to use them liberally. When you get the recipe, all you need is some low-grade steel.

-Put the Cave Ear Poison bear traps in front of other traps. That way, the enemies who step on them will have trouble detecting the subsequent traps. Place the poison traps strategically to give negative status effects to enemies in different ways.

-Acid Traps are pretty silent and very effective, so use those on your stealth assassination missions. Try not to waste them on ordinary luring and destruction of groups.

-Mines are so powerful in groups that you don't need to use the expensive Level III or IV mines in the early to mid-game very much, because enemies hit by the explosions from 2-3 Level II mines should go down. In early game, use the expensive mines to target tougher or armoured enemies.

-Mines are expensive and a pain to drag around. First, get the pack rathound feat as soon as possible. You'll need it in the later game anyway. Next, think in terms of economy and future profits. For example, you can stock up mines to eliminate the Ironheads screen-by-screen, knowing that you'll be able to sell their gear to recoup your costs.

-When you're dealing with whole screens full of enemies that you are trying to eliminate, be a 'ghost' like your build implies. Eliminate isolated enemies silently, without being detected. Then, use mines to eliminate all clustered enemies all at once. Throw a grenade somewhere to get their attention, and when they all come running out, they should all be stepping on mines. They will even mill around because of all the explosions, so any survivors should be stepping on bear traps and such.

-The electrical components on knives make them louder, so it's dangerous to use them for assassinations. Use normal, non-electrical knives to silently remove people when you're on those kind of missions.

-Scout ahead to get oddities in areas that are beyond your level. Your build means that you often don't have to engage enemies until you want to.

-If you are having difficulty with Gorsky's missions in Core City, have you done the missions in Foundry yet? I leave Gorsky's missions until I am ready for the group combat later.

-Going around the tunnels and passages to mug muggers is a great way to dispose of your obsolescent level I and II mines. The fools almost always step on them. Try to silently kill their dogs with bear traps before taking on the main course.

-Start getting used to the toxic gas if you have sufficient chemical skill. It's relatively silent, and could be useful for your build later on.

47
Builds / Re: General advice for a stealthy assassin build
« on: September 12, 2019, 02:11:24 am »
Against my better judgement, I too decided to play NerdCommando's Assassin build as my first build in the game. I was still thinking of Underrail too much of an RPG, when it's mostly a dungeon crawler. And I wanted a thief or rogue-like character. Which would be great, if Underrail wasn't full of enemy groups, some of them mandatory.

If I recall correctly, I completed the broken tunneler mission using mines. Same old trick. Just set up the right mine or defense-in-depth with mines, and then fire a pistol at a nearby gang member and <RUN>. They step on mines, fall over themselves stepping into bear traps, and can be stabbed or grenaded.

My "Assassin" ended up using tons of Molotovs, and shiploads of caltrops. You should have seen Depot A. It looks like a paint factory explosion with all the poison caltrops. I ran into trouble in the early game, so used OP items like caltrops, Molotovs, mines, bear traps, etc...

Your build was designed for mines as a 'backup.' But really, they are a primary weapon against enemy groups. If employed properly, they can wipe out entire screens of enemies without you ever being seen.

On the plus side, there are certain missions involving theft or infiltration that the Assassin can complete without anyone knowing you were there. At one point, later in the game, that will save you the trouble of taking on dozens of high-level enemies in one place.

48
Discussions / Wouldn't this be the perfect keyboard for Underrail?
« on: September 09, 2019, 02:25:38 pm »
These are keycaps - the caps that go over the switches on a keyboard:



They're custom-produced keycaps for Cherry MX mechanical keyboards (common among gaming and office mechanical keyboards).

They're produced in special batches for custom 'group buys.'

You can see the GB link for "GMK Forge" here:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=101948.0

It's got a number of photos. It caught my attention because the colour scheme strongly resembles Underrail's UI:



It's got that burnt-orange base, dark grey, and cream white. The white on orange is something you see specifically in some parts of the UI, like character creation.



The special axe and forge icons relate to certain melee weapons and crafting, and the general area of Foundry. In fact, you could almost call the set "GMK Foundry."

Anyway, I'm not recommending that people go out and buy these sets, as they are very expensive, but I thought it was cool. And GMK makes other retro sets based on the old monochrome monitors that inspired Underrail's UI:


Skidata



Skidolcha



Terminal


49
General / Re: [spoiler] expedition lore - conversations with dude
« on: September 01, 2019, 04:04:48 pm »
Well chimaera, it's always been possible that the messing around on Earth of the Godmen and Leviathans may have been responsible for the species' creation in the first place.

First, there's the speculation about Six trying to stop Tchort from becoming something powerful in the future, such as a Leviathan.

Second, there's the Faceless, who are 'half man, half god, half rock' or whatever. They are growing in sophistication, and will probably become a powerful post-human race, such as the Godmen.

Third, there is the player, about whom there is all sorts of speculation. Did he train as an agent for Oculus to infiltrate the Faceless in the near future, and then go back in time to steal it and disappear afterwards (into the future)? Did Six or Tanner kidnap the player as a newborn to train them as a blank-slate slave to carry out tasks? There's the two 'coincidental' stories of the ferrymen. Is the player just a physical manifestation of psi energy, like the beetles?

So it wouldn't surprise me to see that divisions caused by time-space traveling into Earth may have created the Godmen / Leviathans. Perhaps they were one race previously, and got split at this juncture. I don't know enough, but perhaps it would be good to collate what was learned about these aliens in the expansion.

50
General / Re: [ Spoiler ] Acorn
« on: September 01, 2019, 03:53:18 pm »
You're right, brobotics. I don't think any Lemurian computers gave details on the ACoNR. But they referred to Lemurians playing around with technology that they didn't fully comprehend. This bolstered the idea, for me, that ACoNR contained such technology, and that corporations may have endangered people by experimenting with it.

It wouldn't surprise me if ACoNR was used to create Underrail. Wasn't one used to create Lemuria? I can't remember now. But Underrail is perfect for what an ACoNR would be used for: rapidly constructing a habitat / ecosystem beyond what contemporary science can provide.

I wonder how much of Underrail, in that case, would be ACoNR-created, and how much would be created by the corporations? Would Biocorp find a deep underground cave system, and deploy ACoNR, or hollow it out first with nukes? Or would the digging and shaping be left to the device?

I guess if ACoNR created cave systems, lakes, oxygen replenishment systems, maybe the basic wildlife and fungus / mushrooms, humans could move in and build cities, rail, etc... ACoNR being used to create both Lemuria and Underrail separately would show why the base systems (caves, lakes / sea) were similar, but the building styles were different. [I seem to recall reading that NFT created Lemuria, probably with the aid of exotic devices, and were surprised by Biocorp finding them. Why did they create it so close?]

This also shows why it would be a terrible idea to open an ACoNR in Underrail. Underrail is one of humanity's last surviving habitats. And the ACoNR could be configured for something completely different. There are a number of analogues to it in science fiction.

51
Builds / Re: Optimizing a pure sniper build
« on: August 31, 2019, 03:14:57 pm »
Yes, although my sniper is based on the older game, the expansion offers possibilities. Since there are shotguns lying around (shouldn't have sold the ones I found), I could try seeing how that goes as a backup.

It's also a crafting build, so it should be possible to craft a tactical short vindicator.

52
General / Re: So what improvements would benefit Underrail 2?
« on: August 31, 2019, 12:33:24 am »
One other thing. I don't think we'd want to lose the casual encounters you get from walking all over Underrail. So, maybe there are Lower Underrail / Upper Underrail roads, walkways, and underpassages along the rail line. Or below it. And they're not policed. We wouldn't want to lose that anarchy.

It wouldn't surprise me to see a whole, blocked-off abandoned section of rail that's full of monsters.

I guess Styg will manufacture some kind of crisis that hits North Underrail, like the Faceless hit South Underrail, in order to create the general situation of anarchy where bandits and critters roam free. The dainty, pampered technicians and businesspeople of North Underrail are going to need your help to remove unsightly scorpions from their apartment lobby!

53
General / Re: So what improvements would benefit Underrail 2?
« on: August 31, 2019, 12:16:13 am »
Great thread, everyone. Maybe it's run its course, maybe not.

It looks as if Underrail 2 / North Underrail is a strong contender for the next DLC, or it's in the works at some point.

Styg probably has the main campaign and story largely mapped out. So I just have some suggestions about the theme or gameplay.

North Underrail probably isn't all Rathounds and Crawlers like so much of South Underrail and it's caverns. It's said to be more built-up, upscale, advanced, etc...

So a number of people thinking about this have come to the same conclusion: maybe a lot of the quests would focus on intrigue. There's different, powerful factions there. If your character is potentially coming from Level 25+ (potentially), it's unrealistic to combat a bunch of trash mobs. And there may be fewer low-level baddies there anyway.

But the Protectorate, the corporations of Hexagon, Dis, the Free Drones are likely there. And they all have clashing, competing interests. The game, as stated earlier, could focus more on investigation. Finding out who is worth supporting, and putting your weight there. Fewer, but more critical combats, with more sophisticated enemies, punctuating what we learn in the storyline. More hidden boxes, secret passages, sewer entrances, hacking computer logs, intelligent robots, careful conversations with people and AIs. Silent assassinations. Disabling critical systems so that your allies can attack (which you can participate in).

Of course, there'd still be lots of room for gang fights, like we had with Gorsky's Zone Rats. I'm thinking a more cyberpunk / Zaibatsu situations. And with the corporate espionage, more sneaking / shooting through horrible back-areas to get there. And there's still be slums or run-down areas, muggers, and so on. Restoring old industry, having to clear out the areas of newer, higher-order monsters. Finding incriminating logs from Biocorp, etc...

And that gets me to a major thematic element. In Underrail, you are a puppet, first of Tanner, and then basically Six, or at least your situation in the DC. It wouldn't surprise me if you became somebody's puppet again in North Underrail, either a faction,* Six, or both. Sure, you get to do something satisfying, like punching Tanner in the face, but there are bigger fish to fry there.

But what if you could get loose from your master? But that's not an official part of the main quest, or quest sections involving these puppet masters. Instead, if you read the clues, read the hidden logs no-one knows about, you can find ways to escape your bondage. And become a free agent, or whatever? What I am saying is, an observant player could break away from certain 'mandatory' quests to pursue their own (or SGS) interests. Just as an 'answer' to a thematic element of Underrail.

Anyway, those are my ideas. I think there's space for greater intrigue and faction-choosing in North Underrail, where interpersonal skills could become a lot more important. And the vents... maybe someone should tell your character, "Here in North Underrail, vents aren't neglected as much." They're part of critical high-quality air purification, and people are watching them / in them. There would be quests to sabotage / repair them. Maybe a large part of the game would be like the Core City quests, but deeper.



* Speaking of factions, there are always consequences. Joining Oculus is very rewarding, and there are no downsides. But what if they start putting the screws to you in North Underrail, demanding you go on quests for them? Sure, they'll reward you, and you're their "friend," but if you refuse they will try to off you. Like that sword guy at the end of Expedition.

The same applies to the Protectorate and the Free Drones. Right now, there's not much advantages to my characters being neutral (even though that is often what they choose), but what if that allows you to go to more places in North Underrail, that would be barred to 'partisan' characters?

54
General / Re: [ Spoiler ] Acorn
« on: August 30, 2019, 08:13:22 pm »
Before I learned what it was, I thought it was maybe "A Containerized Nuclear Reactor."

But since it involves (alien?) nanites, I thought maybe it means "Alien Containerized Nano-Robotics."

I mean, if what I understand from the Lemurian computers and Oculus is true, the ACoNR is alien technology. One of them may have been used to create Underrail. It's kind of like a Garden of Eden Creation Kit. The implications of it for the lore are profound.

I noticed that there isn't a lore thread for what we've learned from Expedition. And yet, it seems as if humans (especially the Six Corporations) were getting ahold of alien technology, possibly prior to the apocalypse. There are references to LemCo using designs that sound otherwordly, or not of the Hexagon. And it doesn't seem as if the humans fully understand what constitutes the ACoNR.

Interestingly, devices like the ACoNR might have precipitated the apocalypse. If there was an accident with nanotechnology, that may be why Surface is uninhabitable.* Paradoxically, then, such technology would be needed in order to preserve the human species.

Maybe there were even six ACoNRs, one for each megacorporation (although not every one was used.)




* But I find it more likely that the celestial battles between Godmen and Leviathans may have been responsible. Humans in Underrail are just like ants whose nest got dug up and had to run.

55
General / Re: Hopeless yngwar/ferryman problem
« on: August 30, 2019, 07:57:36 pm »
Regarding the conversation with Yngwar, I can confirm that 9 INT is sufficient to exhaust his dialogue and get the sketch of the Sormibaeren Champion's grave. You have to be very careful when talking with him, however. He is very easily perturbed. Definitely save beforehand. It may also be possible with 8 INT, but I can't confirm that. 9 INT works, at least.



I can confirm 8 INT can get you the sketch of the grave location, at least on medium difficulty. My character has 6 INT, but used Hypercerebrix, and was able to get the information. It required careful talk, as you point out, and I had to feed him a few times.

8 INT won't get Philosophy III, however. My character gets "too tired" to discuss the finer points of the underworld.

BTW, you had mentioned elsewhere that access to Oculus gives you advantages in the expansion. Other than getting certain devices analysed / sold, what other advantages does it give you? Did they update the computers to contain information about Lemuria?

56
General / Re: So what improvements would benefit Underrail 2?
« on: August 25, 2019, 11:31:03 pm »
Thanks for the great suggestions.

I agree with the comments about death animations. Given Underrail's inspiration in the Fallout series, the need to indicate "critical hits," and the theme of body horror, it seems amiss that there are no death animations.

I think for the purpose of indicating critical hits, you really want to reward the player if their build is succeeding, by giving them a visceral result. Especially with all that toxic waste lying around, I wonder why some people aren't melting / mutating like in Robocop  ;D

But I understand that these animations would occupy development time. They'd have to create multiple animations for each character type, and there are a number of unique characters, I think. The poor animators would be kept busy.

57
Builds / Re: Optimizing a pure sniper build
« on: August 25, 2019, 11:12:58 pm »
Thanks for these suggestions. I got distracted by the Underrail 2 suggestions thread, but I've been mulling this over in my head.

I like the plasma pistol idea - conveniently, my character just fished one out of the water. I think that's a sign.

But Steadfast Aim is also in line with what I am doing. It's becoming more and more of a critical-oriented build.

Hard to choose. I can see either Power Management, or Steadfast Aim. It could go either way.

The assault rifle backup idea is nice, although it's close to the SMG concept. And I wonder if the Assault Rifle would really give me a boost on the jetski. Can you use them one-handed? Pistols might work better for me there.

58
General / Re: So what improvements would benefit Underrail 2?
« on: August 21, 2019, 04:43:02 pm »
A number of good points have been raised, some twice.

Yes, there definitely needs to be warnings for touching gear. Right now, there's too much setting-the-whole-town against you for accidentally touching a table.

There are characters like the guard at the SGS caves gate, where you try to click them but accidentally hit the door/fence they are behind, which triggers hostility. I know a warning dialog may have been added since the initial release, but benign conversations are positioned right next to 'untouchable' tables and gear even in SGS, Camp Hathor, etc...

In a pixel-based game, this is very frustrating, and has led me to have to restore saved games more than once. There needs to be more escalation, and a less binary approach towards touching stuff that is right beside a store NPC.

In real life, your character wouldn't be stupid enough to accidentally touch a 'forbidden' table or gate when trying to address a salesman or guard, I would think.

The firearms system could have suppressors applied to all calibres, although it would reduce damage and range, and probably increase wear significantly.

It would be interesting to see caltrops and bear traps made from other metals, although not really necessary.



Good points, Olnarrosh . I often found myself in the middle of one of those giant, time-consuming quests (like the Foundry quests), and forgetting what I was supposed to be doing. Who wanted the murder investigation done? Where was I supposed to look / deliver evidence?

And it would be better to be able to generate your own face somehow. Even a 3D program resulting in a 2D image would be fine. Or a "Mr. Potato Head" type system.




Lots of people have gripes about the commerce system. I find that Underrail takes a 'half-measures' approach, in that there is a more realistic system [vendors only want certain things and sell certain things at any given time], but there are none of the in-universe systems that would naturally spring up in response.

Why isn't there a system where you can consult your PDA and find out what is being sold in Core City, while you are in Camp Hathor? Is there no rudimentary intranet/BBS system in Underrail? No special service offered by people like Blaine or Oculus monitoring what's in stores?

Why can't you contact stores and reserve items? Why isn't there a courier service, as others have mentioned?

And inventory sorting-by-weight/value/etc... would greatly help with management.

Speaking of your PDA / UI, it would be nice to have a database of creatures, as mentioned. Other games have it too, it could have entries added either when you first encounter a creature, or hear about it from someone, with more datapoints being added from subsequent conversations and encounters. But if that's too much work, a straight-up database with information about strengths/weaknesses from basically the Wiki would be okay.



Regarding resolution, I have a 1920x1200 monitor, but I play the game on 1680x1050. It works okay, although it might be even better on a slightly-lower resolution (I'd have to hack my card to enable it).

I think pixel-doubling / tripling / quadrupling might be handy, given the growing prevalence of HIDPI resolutions, especially for laptops.

Zoom might work with the existing setup, I don't know.

If the game engine were 3D, from an isometric perspective, then it would be easy to deal with the resolution issue, character models, and having clothing show up on players. But that would require a brand new engine.

59
Builds / Optimizing a pure sniper build
« on: August 17, 2019, 03:55:59 pm »
I'm playing a pure sniper build based on an ancient template (NerdCommando) on Hard mode. (Started before the expansion came out).

I kind of just went with the flow, and have made suboptimal decisions lately because I wasn't paying attention to nerfs. (Just finished an SMG character).

For example, my sniper took Gun Nut at level 4, and I just took Blitz at level 10.

Now, the smart thing to do would have been to take Sharpshooter at this level, or maybe 12, and then take a secondary weapon perk at 10, such as an SMG-centric one.

But I am tired of SMG anyway. I am already using traps as a secondary weapon, and would rather use a pistol as a backup than an SMG. For variety.

So, how can I optimize a sniper for non-SMG but yes to traps/pistols (especially traps)? My big problem right now is crowd-control, so I'm going to have to craft a rapid 7.62 rifle ASAP. (I'm tired of both SMG and grenades. They work, but I just went through Expedition with them on another character.)

Here are the character's stats so far (Level 10):

Str: 5
Dex: 3
Agi: 10
Con: 3
Per: 11
Wil: 3
Int: 7

Aimed Shot / Gun Nut / Interloper / Sprint / Snipe / Ambush / Blitz


The current plan for perks is:

Sharpshooter (12) / Critical Power (14) / Paranoia (16) / Skinner (18) / Nimble (20) / Pack Rathound (22)

And I wouldn't mind fitting clothier in there, as well.

One thing that's different from previous builds, for me, is that I would like to concentrate also on Merchant. I'll need good merchant to build good rifles. I already have 20 at Level 10.

It was fun fighting the Rathound King, which I just did. Laid a typical minefield, which took care of most of the rats (there are extra on Hard, it seems), and got into a sniper duel with the King. [If I had taken Sharpshooter at 10, I would have got him in one shot. Always trust your instinct on these things.]



Right now, she has access to an 8.6mm Harbinger (max 84 damage), a Smart LS .44 Hammerer (max 72 damage), a 12.7mm Corsair bipod (max 143 damage), and a 12.7mm Harbinger Commando (max 105 damage). And +6% critical chance goggles.

60
Yeah, Expedition seems to be a good candidate for "gradual smoothing / expanding."

The encounter design is a major weakness, as 2 types of crabs or 2 types of spider or 1 type of robot is not as diverse as the random lunatics you'd run into in Underrail. And a number of crowd encounters are forced, since the robots pop up when certain triggers are met, even if you stealthed the area.

The devs had a lot to do to put out the expansion, including retrofitting stuff to the base game. I liked the new map icons for Lemuria too, but you can see that the devs had to build that whole map system in preparation for Expedition, and fit it to the vanilla game. And they had to add jetskis and jetski mechanics, figure out new water pathways in the base game, add new weapon classes, a new psi class, a whole new bestiary and design aesthetic for Expedition, and so on.

So I think quest and encounter design took a hit in that giant and ambitious process.

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