Messages

301

General / Re: Preparing for Dominating. Do you think it will work out?

« on: August 09, 2018, 02:54:54 pm »

Now that's something I haven't seen in a while! You can also use http://underrail.info.tm/build/ to plan your character builds, including feats. Comes with some handy options like showing skill bonuses from your house crafting benches and various items.

This is how your build would look like there:
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQgGAwoJAwfCh2oAAAAAZAAAAG7CgMKAMGPCgAAAAAAAYlVjJhYfOxVKSU9TRQ

Thanks, man. That looks like a cool tool there .

Oddities are only a small part of total XP on Classic. Trust me, Classic is faster by far.  Oddity is the main experience system and far better balanced, buuut if you don't like the idea of carefully looking around... you'll just have to suffer the horrible extra XP you get on Classic. You can easily hit the level cap too early on Classic but if you don't mind that, there's no downside to it.

Oddity looks really interesting. As you were saying, on Hard I managed to cap without even starting the Tchort Institute stuff, but when I checked my oddity list, I saw a half empty selection. Realistically, with me Oddity will add another layer of difficulty. If I play on Dominating, but get more xp than on Hard, then that is actually like a middle difficulty. Which sounds like where I need to be at . 3/8 Foundry plans... ect., ect.

Seems like it's changed quite a bit since I last looked at this thread. You've dropped Quick Tinkering and gone for stealth, which means your only way of setting traps is sneaking around and slowly planting them before combat starts - I thought this was not your thing. Taking Stealth isn't bad advice, more versatility never hurts. And sometimes you just want to avoid fights. But you could play without if you don't like it.

Honestly, it hasn't changed that much. My initial point for stealth came more from a role-playing perspective. After all, coming through the front door to count how many and where they are, while they shoot at you is fun . Still, I don't plan on making stealth a strong trait here. Stealth in this game works differently to, say, Guns, meaning that on top of you having to invest skill points in it, you also need to have actual skill to use it. Not a bad thing per se, just not that good with me . But if I can walk close to the edges and show my face around a corner without getting swarmed, plus putting some traps and gas granades here and there, than it looks godd. Just not a very UghMericaH thing.

After all, if it doesn't help, it can do almost no harm.

Doesn't look like you need more skillpoints, but I'm gonna blather about crafting skill requirements anyways. If you don't mind crafting late game gear at the workbenches in your house, you could take ~100 points off from crafting. Something like this:
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQgGAwoJAwfCh2oAAAAAZAAAAG5uXzBjRgAAAAAAYlVjJhYfOxVKSU9TRQ (check the crating bonus option)
- The absolute highest possible mechanics you could need for a super steel tin can is technically 167, but less than 160 is probably good enough.
- 135 electronics is enough to make any kind of energy shield with quality 130 parts. Should be enough.
- Around 100 tailoring is good enough for metal armor, but you might want to go up to 120-140 if you plan to craft a secondary stealthy set.
- The exact thresholds depend on how good components you can find. It's a luck/patience thing; Mercantile will help with that.
- Ignore this if you want to craft gear on the field. (Mostly for super high quality components you might find in Deep Caverns.)

Useful info. Especially for those that want to min/max. I think I will stay away from the house shenanigans. Less management and less of a money sink, too. Keeps it a bit more simple .

Take another look at Ambush and see if it interests you. 

You managed to nail it . It is the perfect choice. And it works in an interesting way. Thanks!

No need for 7 Int. Remember that after finishing main storyline quest in Core City, you can purchase workbenches in your house (hit the wiki for specific info) that will give you 15%  boost to specific crafting skill.

True that. It is the better choice from a min/maxing perspective. Being aware of that, though, I will keep the points as they are . I think I will completely pass on the house thing, too. Less management/money sink.

Very decent progression and selection. Though i would drop Gun Nut, unfortunately, it's not that good, certainly not as good to warrant 1 additional Int point investment.

Also, maybe switch Full Auto and Last Stand. With Thick Skull, Juggernaut and 10 Con you already have plenty of staying power for that level, but it will not help you without keeping up damage output.

Cheers!

The 1 point in Int comes mainly from having 130 Biology and 160 Mech. Mind you, I wouldn't want to get invested with a house. I know, it isn't the optimal choice, but it will mean less work for me. Gun Nut seems like the last available pick for a Spray and Pray type, too .

More or less yay)

Green Light given! Let's do it!

302

General / Re: Preparing for Dominating. Do you think it will work out?

« on: August 08, 2018, 12:44:18 pm »

Thanks for all the input, guys!

https://i.imgur.com/dgCWklE.png

It seems to do most everything it set out to do, now with two surprising additions of Mercantile and Stealth.

But if it doesn't help, at least it won't do much damage.

Name: NewAndImproved

Starting Stats:
Str: 7
Dex: 5
Agl: 3
Con: 10
Per: 7
Will: 3
Int: 5

Put one into Dex, one into Str, one into Per, two into Int, one into Per.
 
Feats: Juggernaut(starting), Thick Skull(Starting), Opportunist(lvl 2), Grenadier(lvl 4), Last Stand(lvl 6), Supressive Fire(lvl 8 ), Full Auto(lvl 10), Concentrated Fire(lvl 12), Commando(lvl 14), Expertise(lvl 16), Gun Nut(lvl 18), Armour Sloping(lvl 20), Suggestions for last two , possible quick pockets here?

Focus: Assault Rifles, Heavy Armour, Crafting/Special Drugs/Special Ammo.

Support Skills: Throwing, Stealth, Traps, Mercantile.

Armour Sloping can produce less than 95 % armour penalty, though in some cases like Burrowers and Death Stalkers, coming fully outfitted in heavy seems to be more reasonable. Having the option to have movement points at a stage of the game is good, though. I consider it to be something more situational.

People have consistently shown that they are not enthusiastic about Three Pointer. It won't be the first time in RPG history when a skill looks cool, but... In which case, I am willing to listen .

Stealth is something that the character can utilize, but more sparcely than people expect, and despite the flexibility that high crafting brings. Bear in mind that before attempting a certain scenario, I'd be looking around the map to find something that is easier for my character to do--burrowers, death stalkers, rathounds, ironheads, bandits, cannibals, lurkers, non-acid muties. There are a few Psi gizmos there, but nothing like bands of Lunatics or hordes of Psi Beetles. The extra xp will help in any case. Also, being able to loot some stuff occassionally and complete a quest is welcomed(most noteworthy--Abram). The initial weather forecast for the Lunatics at the mall of gas clouds and deluge of caltrops and mines stands--no stealth there, sorry.

I will take the time to make special equipment - to name a few - insulated set for spiders or acid-resistant set for muties. We should utilize everything we have available for top difficulty, after all ^_^.

With the surprising addition of Mercantile, money doesn't seem like too big of a concern. Also, pretty excited for the special stores, to be honest. Crafting throwables and mines certainly would be easy and we have the biggest resource sink ever in the face of Super-Tin smelting furnace. Melting currency to gamble for armour... depreciation is not a thing in the world of Underrail .

Keeping throwing fairly high keeps the granades landing mostly where we want them and it opens a few nice options like nets and poisoned knives. I think those are worth considering on a situational basis. 

There is a slight worry over accuracy with the build only able to reach 10 perception with goggles, but there's always spray and pray, plus bullets really won't be that much of a trouble. We're not smg, we're assault rifles, ffs! Plus, I don't know if high quality assault rifles(140+) come with accuracy bonus; most welcomed if they do. Can't wait for supersoldiers.

That about seems to be the size of it... Yay or Nay ?

303

General / Re: Preparing for Dominating. Do you think it will work out?

« on: August 08, 2018, 01:28:20 am »

...

Hey! Thanks for the reply, man! Ultimately, you don't have to do it, you know...

Everything I learn here helps me(or somebody else reading this) not grinding another character, min/maxing things over and over again .

A few things...

Craft AR that can be burst fired with less than 45 action points. That means you can burst even when you loose 15 AP due to stun effect. Or you can throw a grenade if you don't).  Craft another one, that is a bit more heavy. Change them at will.

Use toxic gas grenades. They are really good.

Smart goggles will increase all your damage from burst attacks. So will smart module in your AR. Find the best components you can and use them. Overall it can increase your burst damage by ~80% on top of all other modifiers.

Psi are not your bros. Geek the mage first, then bother about anything else.

Try to be on friendly terms with Faceless, otherwise it's like another bump in difficulty in DC.

Stack up on W2C ammo. Really. Take it ALL with you into DC. Thank me later.

Try using molotov + closed door tactics against critters (possible in several places). Critters can't open doors.

General good advice!

160 Effective Mechanics

Stealth

Mercantile Skill

Armor Sloping

That raises more questions in my head than it answers .

Take a look at this(sliding bar at the bottom for the picture):





This looks like a watered down character to me. This is my gut feeling about it. You know... one that will need to be rerolled.

If 160 effective(that exact number(!)) mechanics is needed to make the absolute best armour, I am willing to tag along for the ride. No probs. The character will need at least 7 Int for that, though. Taking 1 point out of Dex makes us loose Three Pointer and Quick Tinkering but it opens up Gun Nut and a few other interesting options.

Armour sloping I've tried, and unless you're forgetting to tell me that super-whatcha-call-it makes lighter armour(does it?), being fully armoured will still produce 95 % armour penalty, regardless. I'd love to have extra movement points, otherwise.

I think it's fair to ask how much Mercantile you need to open up those stores . I saw them when I was playing, but it came across as something that only characters deeply invested in Mercantile can open up. Plus, I couldn't find how many points you needed when I looked. If possible, it would be very interesting to work with something that has more than 140 quality!

I politely admit that your stealth opinion is the one that I take with a pinch of salt. How much of it is opinion and how much of it is practical?...

I'd love to have extra tricks up my sleeve. Observing enemies from a distance, knowing their numbers and position and setting traps closer to them is no joke. My initial point about not being a stealthy type comes more from a role-playing perspective rather than a min-maxing one. But what is the price to be paid here? And above all, will it work on Dominating with 3 Agl?! Sure, I don't mind crafting a few extra bits and bobs. They don't weigh much, too. But I am afraid the character is becoming watered down now. 

304

General / Re: Preparing for Dominating. Do you think it will work out?

« on: August 07, 2018, 08:50:41 pm »

Well, at least they have no queries about the name .

Thanks for the input, guys. It's quite valuable, actually.

Now... in order.

Then maybe you shouldn't play difficulty that was specifically designed for people who found Hard too easy. You probably won't enjoy it and will be frustrated.

It's a fair point, man . Thing is, if I do it again on Hard, using what I already know, I'll steam roll it. I have no illusions that the higher difficulty will be less grindy, but on the other hand... no other place to go, really . Still, I won't insist too much on it, if that is the final verdict .

I would really suggest having 8 Str and going for supersteel armor. 90-95% mech resist is way better than additional ~20 points of mech threshold that tungsten will offer.

This is what I mean by not being good at the game. I've never even seen a single piece of super-what's-its-face. Now I need to read where to get it/how to craft it. 1 less point in strength, and into Perception sounds very good.

For feats i would also recommend Opportunist and Suppressive Fire. Suppressive fire gives enemies debuff on speed which in turn procs increased damage from Opportunist

I like it. Though... what to take out? Packrathound? Despite it being a quality of life pick I value a lot, it doesn't have direct impact on combat. Another thing I thought about was Conditioning. On account of me planning on generally avoiding most of the psi-users and using heavy equipment, I could use lifter's belt instead for another 10 % phys resist until I gear up more.

Another point you made was about stealth. I was using a bit of stealth to finish the Abram quest line in Junkyard, but that came entirely from equip I made/found around. I don't expect that to be enough for higher difficulty. Still, selling the stealth emitter(thing) was enough to get me more cash than I spend for the parts, plus all those coins Abram gave me... mmm. May I ask you to elaborate a bit more on that point?

Are you planning to play on oddity or classic? Classic's much easier thanks to all the extra kills and higher level enemies. Oddity will be harsh if you miss a lot of them.

Oddity pretty much doesn't exist with me . I think even on Classic I will be leveling up as quickly as somebody really good(means having all the meta-game info) on Oddity. I am just not good at hunting those down.

You can totally skip lockpicking and hacking, but keep in mind that between all the boxes of random junk they also have occasional high impact uses, such as skipping the hardest parts of Depot A or hacking an auto-turret in GMS to wipe out the raiders. You might miss those when the difficulty goes up.

Aware of that, yes. I remember doing it the old-fashioned way first, then finding that console and reloading the game to check whether the turret would fire at the raiders. Neat little thing.

In depot A, I remember dancing around a corner with a sniper rifle I had/found/crafted... Gave me a laugh, cause I figured it had an accuracy penalty later on. You outrange the turrets with a sniper rifle, though... unless their range is bumped up?

I guess you're taking that early 7 dex for Quick Tinkering? It's the closest you can get to Electrokinetic Imprint (the force trap) without psi. You'll also get Three-Pointer with that, but it's underwhelming in comparison. Nice with Grenadier at high levels and/or with high dex. Grenadier on its own is very good, more opportunities to use grenades is huge when you can't destroy everyone and everything in a couple of turns.

That I am not too sure about... I think I can lower the starting Constitution of the char and pump perception a bit. The 1 Strength lower already helps. We could definitely rework the char and take earlier assault rifle/crafting gizmos and leave three pointer and quick traps for later... They do seem like they're needed at a later stage. Other than Lunatics, there isn't anything that can stun you early on?... Right?



On a more general note, and from what else I could read, the Acid-spewing Muties are people's biggest concern, and understandibly so. After the game opens up, I will be able to choose more selectively where to go and who to fight, but until then, those seem like number one priority. Well, how about a floor carpeted with caltrops, traps put in a checkered fashion(to make them lose ap as they wedge themselves around), then blowing it all up with a granede? How useful would acid-resistant gear crafted from those hides be? Never bothered with that on my first try ... but I expect it to be mandatory during this run.


And finally: We can rethink the char a bit based on what we've said so far.

Name: OneAndOnly
Stats:
Str: 7
Dex: 6
Agl: 3
Con: 9
Per: 7
Will: 3
Int: 5
Put one point in Per, then one point in Str, then one point in Con, then one point in Dex, then pump Per. Use rathound burritos for str at all times.
Focus: Assault Rifles, Granades, Caltrops, Traps, Heavy Armour, Crafting/Special Bullets.
Feats: Opportunist, Expertise, Suppressive Fire, Juggernaut, Thick Skull, Last Stand, Full Auto, Commando, Concentrated Fire, Grenadier, Three Pointer, Quick Tinkering.

The only thing still in question is the order one would want to take the feats, I guess. Can we talk about that, please?

305

General / Preparing for Dominating. Do you think it will work out?

« on: August 07, 2018, 03:18:48 pm »

Hello,

How's it going?

I'm nearly done with my first run on Hard(just entered Deep Caverns), and am thinking about Dominating--big project, so I'd rather be prepared, and from early on, too. Or not bother at all, if those better than me say so, that is.

I few words about me as a player. I am not that good at this game, and that reflects on my playstyle--I found roughly half the oddities. I wasn't trying/I didn't want to/I am bad at it . I put some points into Lockpicking/Hacking, but later found that I just wasn't doing any of it, so it ended up being wasted points. After all, I can't bash containers in this game :C. I am sure that if you keep them invested in at optimal levels you'd find something good, but as far as I can remember 80 effective in each didn't produce anything notable for me. The crafting did, though. I'd be happy to keep all crafting disciplines at optimal levels. Hunt some stuff, get some loot, craft some goods. Sound right in my book.

Not a stealthy type, too. I was doing scouting by walking in the front door, counting how many there are, and then walking out. No worries if they shoot at me, I was clad in the heaviest armour I could make, plus also being stun resistant, which, I think, was the best choice I could make in this game .

Now, my character was also good at psi stuff. I picked them more on account of me seeing what they had to offer, rather than wanting to create an optimal character, though. I can already see that combining heavy armour with psi gizmos won't produce an optimal choice in this game(unless, of course, I am wrong.) Or to be more precise, I'd very much like to be able to craft myself everything, wear the heaviesst armour, and still being able to manipulate the combat with force fields and force traps(gosh, I can't remember the names), but that seems unlikely from my current pov. 

So combining everything I know of the game I came with this:
Character Name: UghMericaH
Starting Stats:
Str: 9
Dex: 6
Agl: 3
Con: 10
Per: 6
Will: 3
Int: 3
Put one point in Dex, two in Int, then pump Per.
Focus: Assault Rifles, Heavy Armour, Throwing, Traps, Crafting/Special Bullets.
Feats: Conditioning, Expertise, Pack Rathound, Juggernaut, Thick Skull, Last Stand, Full Auto, Commando, Concentrated Fire, Grenadier, Three Pointer, Quick Tinkering.

I don't have the exact metagame info in my brain, but I'd avoid any Lunatics at any time, since they can reduce Con and have some one-shot gizmos available(Mental Breakdown and crit Neural Overclocking.) The mall fight would be me carpeting everything with caltrops, barring every entrance with traps and pumping gas everywhere. Psi beetles seem like trouble, too. Other than that, I don't think there's much I'd want to avoid. If it seems like trouble, the crafting aspect of the char should give enough money/options to deal with it somehow... I hope.

Thoughts?   

306

General / Re: Ugh... What did I do wrong? Protectorate attacking me at the Apogee offices...

« on: August 05, 2018, 07:26:24 pm »

I'm so bad at this, I swear. Of course it's the bloody weapons. Thanks for reminding me.

A small side note to the devs--there wasn't any option for my char to say that he doesn't mind dirty work so long as he gets paid.

When Colonel Cathcart asks why you decided to join the Protecorate, you can say it's because of the money, safety and other benefits such a powerful organization can give to you.

Yeah, that sounds like pushing a desk. Maybe it's just me, but neither of the options were appealing. Not a biggie, regardless.

307

General / Ugh... What did I do wrong? Protectorate attacking me at the Apogee offices...

« on: August 05, 2018, 06:31:39 pm »

Hi,

How's it going?

So I haven't been a saint by any stretch of the imagination. I picked up the Protectorate questline mainly to get paid and earn some XP. A small side note to the devs--there wasn't any option for my char to say that he doesn't mind dirty work so long as he gets paid.. you know, hardcore merc.

Anyways.

I did the entire Abram thing at Junkayrd--infiltrating the embasy, saving the prisoner, ect.,ect. I killed only one soldier in the prison doing so, and then specifically checked whether the Protectorate would be aggressive towards me, and they weren't. After that I did the Gorsky run at the warehouse in Core City, and again, specifically checked whether the Protectorate would be aggressive towards me, yet they weren't. The Ambassador even told me to go to Fort Apogee after saving the train. I go there, I get hired, I go to Epione(if memory serves) Lab, I finish the work there and then I get back to Apogee. I enter and its ok. I go to the offices to speak with the boss, and suddenly, everybody there are aggressive towards me. So, I haven't been a saint by any stretch, but the way that this is happening is quite puzzling... What am I missing here?

308

Bugs / Re: Bug with Throwing webs: Intended or Actual?

« on: August 05, 2018, 04:25:42 pm »

Quadruple sounds like fun, to be honest. After I am done with this run it's Dominating, for sure.

309

Bugs / Re: Bug with Throwing webs: Intended or Actual?

« on: August 05, 2018, 12:35:05 pm »

On the high difficulty settings, he can take a beating, and if you let him hit you, he puts out a fair bit of damage, but I wouldn't put him anywhere in a list of the top 10 most dangerous individuals in the game.  Still, he can show up - again, depending somewhat on difficulty - with quite a few friends, and if you don't block access it can become messy.  I don't think he's tough, but also didn't want to say, "Hey, how's that big sack of dead doin'" if you were having trouble with him

Well, thanks. That's pretty cool. I play on Hard currently, and unless he goes triple HP on Dominating I don't see him surviving more than a turn. That is, if I go the same build(improved) on classic XP.

The saves are in your profile/My Games/Underrail/Saves/. It's probably too big to attach here, but you could upload it to dropbox or similar service, or email it to Styg (admin@underrail.com)

Thanks, I will e-mail him now, explaining the situation.

310

Bugs / Re: Bug with Throwing webs: Intended or Actual?

« on: August 05, 2018, 03:16:27 am »

By the way, if anyone frequently encounters the asymmetrical line of fire bug (enemy can shoot at you but you can't shoot back without moving), share a save where it's easy to reproduce. That might help Styg to debug it.

As far as I can tell, it's rare to the point that most players never see it. I know it's still a thing, happens to me too occasionally, but I haven't been able to reproduce it reliably after alpha.

that's a result of the odd disjoin between where you actually are standing and where it looks like you are standing.

What?

I may have something for you. It's completely the other way around, though. I can shoot at enemies, while they can't shoot at me .

It's also very reproducible.

I've no idea how to share the save file, though.

311

Bugs / Re: Bug with Throwing webs: Intended or Actual?

« on: August 04, 2018, 11:28:16 pm »

Ah, now that's a long-standing issue. Having trouble targeting enemies who are in doorways?  That's been a thing for years.  Styg has replied to posts about that in the past, saying it's probably something deep in the code.  As to why it looks so janky, though, that's a result of the odd disjoin between where you actually are standing and where it looks like you are standing.  Which is of course itself a deep game mechanics issue.

Also, hey, how'd that Balor fight go?

I see, I see... these things are good to know. Honestly, it's not a biggie, though something I'd wish wasn't there with this good game .


As for Balor... he literally parked himself in front of my char without taking a swing--I'm guessing his O-sized hammer has a high AP cost due to lack of strength. Him and his shield went in a single go from Ugthar's secondary weapon--a custom crafted 9mm Chimera for 9 bullet bursts loaded with W2C at all times. Not to be cocky, but was it supposed to be a tough fight?

312

Bugs / Re: Bug with Throwing webs: Intended or Actual?

« on: August 04, 2018, 10:16:59 pm »

Got two more... after the previous discussion I thought you'd want to take a look at this... maybe it helps somehow.

313

Bugs / Re: Bug with Throwing webs: Intended or Actual?

« on: August 04, 2018, 08:26:20 pm »

Aha,

I had me this feeling that it could, after all, be an intended feature of the game. Both characters are indeed right-handed and it makes sense for the thing to function like that. Earlier I thought about modded Fallout 4, where Super Mutants with miniguns can wreck you in two seconds, but if you crawl from a high place you can shoot them in the head without them being able to return fire.

And, sadly, no, I cannot think of any situation where the opposite has occurred(would have been quite neat, though.) I have this thing with this game where I only want to retreat to the north-east around corners because it gives me more visibility on my character. I can see how it's a bad idea now.

However... You talk about line of sight...

I find this interesting because my character is also good at Psi gizmos, but he couldn't use those, too. Again, is this intended?

314

Bugs / Bug with Throwing webs: Intended or Actual?

« on: August 04, 2018, 04:06:48 pm »

Hello fellow Underrailers,

I have this frequently occuring bug(or maybe it is intended) where I get immobilized by a throwing web around a conrner but cannot shoot back. So, it happens like this.

Lurkers and I tussle for a bit, then I move back around a corner waiting for them to come to me. I play a tanky character in very heavy armour and assault rifles. The Lurkers come in visible range, then throw a web, which immobilizes me, then shoot at me and end turn. I, having visibility on them, cannot shoot back on my turn. The game wants my character to move a bit in a direction around the corner in order to return fire. I've never seen them move after they've done their actions, implying that they stay in the same spot after they've shot at me.

I find it very puzzling that they can shoot at me, while I cannot shoot at them.

Here's a screenie:




That thing is occuring almost all the time and that Lurker in the picture didn't move after he was done with his turn.

Bug or intended?

Is