Messages

31

Builds / Re: Beginner looking for advice regarding Psi/Sniper build

« on: January 02, 2019, 09:20:50 pm »

By the way the wiki says nothing about the "chance" to burn enemies with pyromaniac

Now it does! http://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Pyromaniac

Godspeed, matey!
Wait, Exothermic Aura can't incinerate people? 10% even 5% possibility each tile is plausible functioning, but now I'd dump this skill for thermo-gunner builds.

Edit: wait again, does Thermodynamic Destabilization with Pyromaniac have 50% chance to proc it's heat damage on all surrounding characters or calculated like mollys? No matter what I'll test my luck with it!

32

Builds / Re: Beginner looking for advice regarding Psi/Sniper build

« on: January 02, 2019, 06:53:27 pm »

Interesting

Is psychostatic electricity good with only 50 effective psychokinesis ? (Edit : well i suppose it is since even a low damage will trigger it, i'll consider taking it)

My idea was to burn ennemies with metathermics and molotovs in order to trigger ambush, but i don't know how pratical this can be. By the way the wiki says nothing about the "chance" to burn enemies with pyromaniac, anyone knows ?.

I guess it's 50%, like all other potential incinerate effect. Use burning as a controling skill looks plausible but Exothermic Aura would remove the Ambush buff, crit output and active AOE seems mutualy exclusive.

33

Builds / Re: Beginner looking for advice regarding Psi/Sniper build

« on: January 02, 2019, 05:11:25 pm »

Do you think something like this could work or not at all : http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQUDBgoNAwbChzgAAADCh8KHADIAAHNzDipnAC3ChwAAACtjKAE_NSoCLksKPWImMw ?

(i have never played nor psi nor sniper nor 10 con guy so it should be fun)

I would like to have a try with this base stat, and some personal skill & feat tweak: http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQUDBgoNAwbChwAAAADCh8KHTgAAAGxsDyplAC3ChwAAKyYrAShjKjc1CkszYmcCHw

34

Suggestions / Re: Make leather & caparace quality related to damage dealing method

« on: January 02, 2019, 03:14:04 pm »

I'm just saying that while psi might need some adjustments, those should be done carefully, one step at a time and in context with the rest of the game.

I mean, just think for a second about your "thought control use damages the user" idea. How exactly will that work with tranquility psions?

I must say sorry for that. Personally I don't like Thought Control and I have had a creepy idea from a creepy novel, a D&D Dark Sun fan fiction, to be honest. In this novel Psions in Athas are divided by their attitude for psionic, despite details you can simply regard them as Tranquility school and Psychosis school. The later one prefer to wreck themselves' mind first, let rage or other bad feeling take over their mind and believe that make them far more stronger than solid tranquilers in wrecking others' mind... So, it's not a serious opinion regaring balance of skills.

35

Suggestions / Re: Make leather & caparace quality related to damage dealing method

« on: January 02, 2019, 02:58:09 pm »

I always thought this idea was cool ever since I was working on a STALKER mod and wanted the organ drop rate (snork foot, etc) to make some sense rather than be super random, especially since grenades and shotguns were very OP in that game, I thought it would be a cool balance for those weapons to destroy organs and prevent the drop, while the knife would be almost 100% drop.

Unfortunately it kinda depends on everything else in the game and the devs vision whether such a cool feature makes sense to add or no.

That sounds very intriguing, if I can get more info of your mod I'd be very appreciated. And from what I've seen on the forum Styg and the corp are not sharing their instruments and code for module customization, how had you manage to work that?

36

Suggestions / Re: Make leather & caparace quality related to damage dealing method

« on: January 02, 2019, 02:40:07 pm »

Adding to-hit chance to projectile-based psionic attacks is one thing and it might be warranted. Making THC of those be based of a stat that has NOTHING to do with psionic is just nerfing for the sake of nerfing. That would be just as warranted as making THC chance of ranged weapons be depended on dexterity, while the skills themselves still based on perception.

Let's imagine that if one can barely use a steak knife, hurt himself with safe scissor, accidently pour hot liquid on feet when holding a soup pot (my imagination for 3 DEX) is there any reason he can do SIGNT ALIGNMENT efficiently? Jokes aside, I'm not going down that rabbit hole (didn't know Louis Caroll are welcomed in such way) so I have not started a topic like what "plz! nerf PSI as what I said!" I'm just giving personal consideration under another topic. Don't take it serious since (1)YMMV (2)I'm not the dev, pal.

37

Builds / Re: is this a good pistol/smg build?

« on: January 02, 2019, 04:26:53 am »

how much perception is needed for handguns?

It's not a restriction or something... 10 PER and 135 Guns skill = 203 effective Guns = 242% damage modifier. You have to face darkness, long range, Creeping Dread, The Eye of Tchort and probably Intimidated, with these nerf you may found it's hard to hit enemy. When you play a bullet spammer, 20+ burst rounds per turn have a lot of chance to hit, and what if you lose an Aimed Shot with amplified plasma pistol? RNG rig.
I have had a failed energy/firearm pistol playthrough, mostly energy because crit damage is dominating, ran out of batteries in Deep Cavern. From my experience, 12 PER -> 226 effective Guns would make your pistol damage output a bit more better, increase accuracy, 13 DEX +1 sandwich to keep laser pistol 10AP per shot, and a 12AP (Gunslinger) Smart Rapid Neo Luger for back up. General Feats, ambush is a must, dump STR because Steadfast Aim looks good, but if I can pick SA I can carry a bloody sniper rifle either, which I'd choose to dump DEX and boost PER to 16.

38

Builds / Re: is this a good pistol/smg build?

« on: January 02, 2019, 03:49:14 am »

IMO, first of all, I'm not suggesting you to use pistol as SMG backup. Pistols are highly rely on special attacks (you can use them as Sniper Rifle backup), with SMG you only need point blank burst, charge to another enemy, rinse & repeat.

For combat:
You have uber DEX, and I assume (1)you're not going to play ironman (2)you're not going to use throwing knife or Three-Pointer, so 30 point in Throwing (around 60 effective at Lv24) for Grenadier is fine.
Pick Grenadier/Spec Ops later than Lv4/Lv8 is very unwise. With Grenadier at Lv4 and Spec Ops at Lv8 you can make 20s cooldown for flashbang, 10s cooldown for damage dealing 'nades (You need Molly for potential crowd control) at very early game. Also Quick Tinkering at Lv4 have proven its value. Crowd controlling is the first priority, please enhance your damage output later than that. Otherwise you'd find that despite you can take 1~2 enemy out in the first turn, other enemy can take you out in the next turn, remember you have only 3 CON pal.
10 PER is not enough for pistol, and too much for SMG. I don't know you are going to play experimental version or not, that new feat Versatility is a good feat for SMG/melee builds. You can exchange PER for AGI or other stats, invest 50 or 80 in guns for important feat.
I thought nimble is enough for passive defense, when you have trouble dealing crawlers, Uncanny Dodge is also good. You don't need three feat to enhance your passive defense, it's better to max out crowd controlling because you don't evase Electromagnetic Burst or Neural Overload.

For subterfuge & crafting:
50 stealth is good in early game, and a joke in Lv25. Max it out and get bonus from overcoat fabric, balaclava, cloaking device... You have decent crafting score, so make it function. 135 effective lockpicking is a little too much, you can make it 100 to save some point. Quick Tinkering is good for traps, most enemy won't spot a little beartrap in one turn. Uber DEX, decent Mechanics score, synergy with Lockpicking... all good reason to invest 25 Traps for a AP free immbilizing effect.
Consider that energy shields have various addons, 135 effective Electronics is okay, but max out Mechanics & Tailoring don't make sense. Components' quality was capped at 160 max, you need 128 crafting score to deal best components, albeit best components are very rare and you have basement workbench crafting bonus.
As a gunner (to be honest, a bullet spamming triggerhappy) you need 50 Mechanics & 15 Chemistry in early game keeping healthy AMRK (Advanced Mechanical Repair Kit) and bullet supply. Later 20 Chemistry, for handmade W2C bullets.

For Social:
Have 25 effective Merchantile to unlock Blaine's special if you don't want to searching all Underrail for god darned JHP/W2C blueprint...

Hint:
There's a rewarding device provides 20 lockpicking bonus after you complete a special side questline.

P.S. This is my SMG/melee char at Lv20 (with some ideal tweak), I hope you can find something useful for your own build.

-Base-
STR 3
DEX 15
AGI 10
CON 3
PER 6
WIL 3
INT 5

-Skills-
Guns 80 (127 from Versatility)
Throwing 30 (58)
Melee 110 (212)
Dodge, Evasion & Stealth 110 (166)
Lockpicking 45 (101)
Traps 31 (74)
Mechanics 110 (119)
Electronics 37 (40)
Chemistry 15 (20)
Biology 45 (50, I love Focus Stim)
Merchantile 47 (50)

-Feats-
1. Suppresive Fire & Sprint (maybe change it for Hit and Run)
2. Opportunist
4. Quick Tinkering ('nades are expensive in early game)
6. Expose Weakness (very important)
8. Spec Ops
10. Blitz
12. Grenadier
14. Commando (invested 80, effective 93)
16. Versatility (I can receive its bonus when effective Melee beyond 155)
18. Expertise
20. Dirty Kick

39

Suggestions / Re: Make leather & caparace quality related to damage dealing method

« on: January 01, 2019, 11:28:55 am »

So even more changes that will make psions totally OP?
I mean, they can literally just mentally overload the critter, thus getting a perfect skin every time.

I suggested "Hunter" feat tweak above and I hope my intention was not misunderstood. Also I have not share my opinion with psi abilities in this topic yet, and this is my opinion:
They are tooooooo much OP and not fair in any trade, 25% MAX HP loss means nothing.
For trade off, projectiles from TK, EK and Metathermic have to involve accuracy calculating, and THC count with PER, not psi skill score, receive penalty from evasion. Thought Control spells shall be invoked with caster's hit point losing, since there's Psionic Mania and (presumably) having Hemopsychosis in Expedition (http://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=File:Hemopsychosis_icon.png) it's at least convincing for me. Other tweaks like reducing damage, increasing cooldown... consider that psi autotracking ice spikes always hit, I srsly doubt these can be called "nerf".

40

Suggestions / Re: Death Stalkers and Evasive Maneuvers feat

« on: January 01, 2019, 03:43:03 am »

Normally the Death Stalker that misses the initial sting can only basic-attack with no possibility of hiding.

No evidence. They hide as always since Sting is not a skill stated: "refresh your stealth cooldown". They have no cooldown of stealth and Sting cost no AP.

41

Suggestions / Re: Make leather & caparace quality related to damage dealing method

« on: January 01, 2019, 03:25:28 am »

You gotta know that games abstract a lot of stuff.  Doing something like that would penalize builds that rely on many actions per turn, like fast melee or SMG builds, and penalizing player choice is something one should only do with good reason.  But score keeping like that doesn't really add much value to the game.  "Immersion" is what you make it - games aren't simulators.

If you need to justify why you get good quality leather from a warthog you just pumped full of 30 rounds of 5mm, consider that a full-grown pig is about 100-400 kilos of angry bacon (presumably on the smaller side since they wouldn't be benefitting from modern farming techniques and sunlight). 30 rounds of 5mm is about 100g of lead, and each bullet hole is smaller than your pinky finger.  You'll find plenty of places to get a few nice pieces of leather.  And that's not even considering all the "immersion" behind the realistic considerations of leather use in textile manufacturing.

No, don't go down that rabbit hole.  It only leads to madness.

Styg said this trait won't be implemented, so it's pure discussion:
I can get your point, Underrail is not a 2D isometric hunting simulator. My point is (only from my experience), when a PC started to "farm" these wild creatures, he/she have reached a relatively high level with enough offensive & defensive skills, hence the prey won't be a threat to the hunter. Critters automatically ignore traps, and you can use beartrap efficiently with 0 skill.
I'm not interested in "down that rabbit hole" pal, the most immersion-breaking part of crafting system is PC's wristpad recipe metal work. I can make tungsten carbide bullets from thick tungsten ingot, raw graphite and TNT with my bare hand, why can't I one-punch Tchort to hell? But it's really convenient, I'm not against it. I want this loot change just to make farming aspect of Underrail become more reliable, it's all for fun. Anyway, that's possible to make PC gain more advantage from "Hunter" feat beyond 20% bonus knife/crossbow damage towards critters, like:
You can find useful parts on dead prey, your attack won't decrease leather and caparace loot quality. This feat doesn't recover burnt or acid entangled enemy's loot.
I reckon most people wouldn't listen to Edgar's hunting mumbo-jumbo if they don't use xbow/knife, but now it becomes a much useful feat, isn't it?

That said, though I am not against these sort of mechanics in principle, I would not like implementing it in isolation, while leaving other systems and other types of loot/looting simulated to a lesser extent.

Thanks anyway. I hope there's more critter loots in Expedition.

42

Suggestions / Make leather & caparace quality related to damage dealing method

« on: December 31, 2018, 11:18:29 am »

I've been thinking about this for a long time: how could it be possible that you can acquire leathers above average quality from a rathound/pig/siphoner killed by full-auto lead storm or uncountable knife stabs? It's basically no reason.
Mechanical damage should become a threat if you want to gain high quality leather or caparace, and some other damage/status effect should be totally avoided. For game mechanic, each individual attack decreases critter component quality for a certain percentage, and leather loot shouldn't be found on burn/acid entanglement effected critter, as follow:

Damage type                            Quality decreased per attack (leather)                Quality decreased per attack (caparace)
Blunt Mechanical                                              2%                                                                 15%
Thrust Mechanical (bullets)    depends on caliber, 2%/5%/7%/10%/12%/15%    depends on caliber, 5%/8%/10%/12%/15%/20%
Thrust Mechanical (bolts)                                  5%                                                                  5%
Thrust Mechanical (knives)                                5%                                                                  1%
Fire (ignore burning area)                 15%, remove loot if burnt                                                    4%
Acid (ignore acid puddles)           15%, remove loot if acid entangled                                            4%
Corrosive Acid                                     25%, same as above                                                      25%
Energy                                                            8%                                                                  8%
Spikes and serrated knifes on armor/boots/gloves count as knife attack.
Beartrap, bio, electrical and mental damage wouldn't affect. Cold damage neither, but consider that cryogun bullet and cryokinesis are mech/cold hybrid, big, look like creepy "ice-spear", I think they are equivalent to .44 caliber firearm. Cryo-orb shards count as 7.62mm rounds.

Hence you'd receive a tattered fishing net or even nothing, if you don't hunt properly.
IMO it's a good way to improve immersion, but I don't know if there's so much script work that make it hard to achieve.

43

Builds / Re: Skills for Chem/Bio Crossbow Build?

« on: December 31, 2018, 02:14:08 am »

It's too high having 151 Mechanics in current versions, you dig, best components are capped at 160 quality so you only need 128 effective Mech, work bench crafting bonus calculated. Maybe you can get 3 160 quality components that literally require 150+ Mech for some crazy stuff, with uber fortune, basically. On the other hand, if you dump Merchantile skill you'd find it hard to gain relatively high-end components (100-110) for mid game because these merchants don't want to earn charons from you (even with higher price). My suggestion is get 25 effective when you meet Blaine, then 50 when you finish Oligarch's task or join Protectorate/Free Drones/the spoiler eye of Underrail.

I'm heavily in 6 Int skills bumping it up to 11 along with other changes lets me raise Tailoring to a decent score.

You saying 11 INT? Pal, you definitely should pick High-Technicalities and Versatility, craft a top tier efficient amplified laser pistol (or smart amplified). You have beautiful crit chance and amplified energy weapon have beautiful crit damage (6~7 times base damage with 48% HT bonus, think of it), and xbow builds don't starve for feats as much as melee.
Edit: an example - my best laser gun is composed by Q160 laser emitter & Q131 amplifier, base damage 20-27, base crit damage 337% (25% from practical physicist). One or two shot big psi-bugs (they have uber mech resist) make me feel dominating.

Didn't even realize Tasers were in the game, assumed people were talking about energy pistols ...

A melee build with high electronic didn't use Taser is a strong loss. Taser could be a game breaker, especially in starting scenes. Some batteries, find a low-end shock generator and a low-end plasma core, then you have 40AP 125% damage output (with opportunist), even a free turn (when there's only one enemy).
P.S. Have backup, it's impossible to miss but resist.

I also lose the ability to process Corrosive Acid Glands->Corrosive Acid, which I care about alot more than the high end drugs. I can still craft with Corrosive Acid directly (not sure how rare it is but whatever).

My bad, you can only produce Corrosive Acid through dealing Corrosive Acid Glands, so you need 100 bio and 75 chem (to use your product).

Not sure that attached properly?

I changed URL, it has been properly displaying now. I hate those sites... Copy & paste image URL to your browser is still viable, it's the final solution I think

44

Builds / Re: Sniper Rifle build for new update?

« on: December 31, 2018, 01:42:02 am »

I think there are principles for all functional builds: crowd control, active & passive defense, diversified damage output...
IMO sniper rifile shall be backup by SMGs (smart rapid) and nades because 5 STR don't support most AR, and it's a simple calculation: you do AR burst, you don't have AP to use SR, vice versa. For a non-AR gunner build, I strongly suggest to take Grenadier at Lv4 and Spec Ops at Lv8, make 5/20/20 mech/chem/bio in early game for Toxic Gas Grenade, or S/L to get low Q shock emitter and plasma core.

Base:
5
6 (Grenadier, 30 point in Throwing is fine)
7 (Hit and Run)
3
10+++++
3
6+ (Gun Nut)

Opportunist, Aimed Shot, Ambush, Snipe, Sharpshooter and Critical Power are must.
Stack your crit chance with equipment.
Burst attack is still powerful because special bullets are powerful and they don't occupy your utility slot.
I remember I've seen a thermo-sniper build on this forum, but I can't recall when I saw it or who made it. Premeditation 189% Thermo-destabilization is dominating!

45

Builds / Re: Skills for Chem/Bio Crossbow Build?

« on: December 30, 2018, 05:52:12 pm »

Only savescummed in some scene like Lurker base (you know, bastards can shoot you with their SR from 13+ tiles away and you can't even see them). Otherwise, prepare a high-end infused pig leather armor is also doable.

With a High/High Shield Emitter and about 50% mechanical resist, sniper bullets just bounce off of you.

I do find it annoying how EMP and electric spiders make all my electronics useless...

50% DR is hard for a light armored character without some super steel help, and you're definitely right! I hate spiders since my first dominating run was a energy weapon knifer. Other foes may kill me in one turn but big spiders only need one hit, damn those things! I'll napalm them all!