Messages

31

Builds / Re: Stealth Sword Rogue DOMINATING build and questions about next patch

« on: June 02, 2020, 08:43:42 am »

How did light armour worked with swords? I always thought it would be more metal armour oriented since you want to be there connecting flurrys and using parry, what involves getting hit in the end.

OP wanted to do a stealth sword and that's only acomplishable wearing light armor. But it's good. Basically he needs to play like a knife user. With enough Stealth, he should manage to surprise the enemy. Let's say against a group of Lurkers. If I think about it, knives don't have Red Dragon level uniques, but they have Cut-Throat which is a feat that might even be worth taking here too and carry one off-hand, just to open each fight with it and just totally erase one guy, then switch to a sword. Even if not, we just Dirty Kick someone, maybe straight up decapitate the low hp psi-user and start Flurrying the rest. It's important to leave the melee enemy last, since if it's not feared out of his mind yet, his attacks will be countered anyway. And with such an advanced Uncanny Dodge (good against special attacks too from crawlers or humans from stealth) and high DEX Parry, it should be enough to survive the enemy turn and finish the fight.
He definetly needs energy shields though to not feel helpless against ranged mobs, so I figured that high Electronics is mandatory. IN CASE the build does not use the Red Dragon but crafted weaponry, then 7 INT to gain more skill points we can pour to Mechanics and taking Power Management & Weaponsmith will probably be a good idea.
But if you plan on getting the Red Dragon ASAFP, then maybe it's better to hold off on Mechanics a bit and only increase it once you have something you want to make and THEN raise this skill to that level, so you're not end up wasting points. I know grenades require some, Infused armor too.

so I was scouting the forums for a build like this, although I don't have nearly enough hours like you 2 probably, I got curious on this build and was thinking of trying it as well (not on dominating difficulty though)
ok, so, I like the more points in str ideia but wouldn't it difficult skill allocation? or at least change it quite a bit? cause dex as a stat overall gives a lot more than str on skills, how would you make up for the skill bonuses that were lost?

That case, one has to increase INT to 7 at the cost of having 12 STR instead of 13. That way you can set every skill to the same amount, with a few points less in Throwing or Intimidation. Also: If we indeed take Nimble, then we can decrease Dodge to 131, so with the Nimble bonus we reach 150. Or raise it to 157 and get 180.


Also, I want to emphasize again, that I never played a melee in this game so far, so what I say is not tried and tested info. I planned to make a knife user, but never got around to actually play it, so my suggestions are although with the best of intentions, is nowhere near from an expert:)

32

Bugs / Re: SGS Introduction quest

« on: June 02, 2020, 08:27:58 am »

That's a relief. I hoped this was the case - I mean, I continued playing anyway, but I knowing this feels better:)

33

Bugs / SGS Introduction quest

« on: June 01, 2020, 06:22:32 pm »

I just realized after all this time, that according to the wiki, I should receive XP from even speaking to Tanner for the first time, also for seeing Pasquale and do some shooting practice (10 hits) and return back to him. He doesn't have the dialogue that acknowledges my visit to the shooting range.
I tried this on Oddity and didn't get anything from either of those things. Is this okay and I'm not supposed to have any XP on Oddity, or there's something wrong here?

34

Builds / Re: Stealth Sword Rogue DOMINATING build and questions about next patch

« on: June 01, 2020, 07:20:00 am »

Before I say anything, generally it's best if you make your build as it is best for you, so you don't need to take any advice here. Guess you can read it and decide, but there's nothing wrong with going after your own head.

If I were to alter your build, it would look like this:
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?HgcOCAMDBQYAKADCoGXCnXhRLAAsUHQiQWMAAAAAAMKLACQmMQ0SwowTQcKZwo4GS8KBwovCjVzCs-KdjQLin4QB4qe-CuKyiQLfvw

Uncanny Dodge get enough out of 150 Dodge - that's 7 hit you can deflect.
Oppurtunist to get bonus damage when you use Dirty Kick / Flashbangs / Cheap Shot incapacitate.
Expose Weakness duration specialization is very important.

The feats should be in similar order, I mean you have to get Critical Power at level 20 LATEST, otherwise you won't be able to fully specialize in it. From 16, it's the 5 points in everything else, then from level 21, you can only level Crit Power.
Basically until halfway, level 16 we establish our ability to Flurry, lower enemy defense and increase our own, then it's nothing but offensive feats. You might want to begin leveling Intimidation from this point only and not before, so you can raise your other skills first that will be more useful from the start - Brutality will only come later anway, so no worries.
Decapitate is something I would definetly include here, I mean it benefits a lot from all damage increasing feats and we have many, also Red Dragon gives a bonus to it too.

Even with 160 effective Stealth, I think you need to use Black Cloth to be able to comfortably sneak around, especially since you're melee. Then the question is that should it be Soft padding for more stealth, or High Density padding for better melee protection. Death's Grin also reduces stealth, so we need as much as we can get.
Lowered Hacking to 105, since with Hypercerebrix and Engi suit (+UnderPie), you'll be at 130.
Lowered Lockpick to 100, since with skill boosting tools, Engi Suit, you'll be at 130 (then there's still Jackknife and Eel Sandwitch too).
To be perfectly honest I don't know how much Mechanics you need and for what. So who knows maybe somebody else can tell you that.
70 Biology is a must for Hypercerebrix, but 80 is handy for Bullheads, yeah.
Chemistry is at a mere 45, enough for Flashbangs, tier 2 incendiary grenades and tier 2 gas greandes.
Even without shock-; or energy edge weapon crafting, I decided to increase Electronics significantly in order to craft the very best energy shields against ranged enemies. 135 for tier 3 Plasma explosives - so there's your damage dealing grenades (and mines) + you can also put together the best in EMP warfare too.
Tailoring 115. You can't get a Rathound leather as high as some other leather anyway and there's always Hypercerebrix and benches too if you need a boost, so 115 should be fine.
Raised Intimidation further for obvious reasons. Brutality has that increased chance to kick in with every single attack, we want to make it count.



Also it's worth to mention that while Dexterity increases your crit chance and Initiative, your sword get an additional 7% damage with each point in Strength after 6. So if you leave DEX at 10 (to still have Ripper) which might still be okay and put the other 6 points in STR, you'll end up with 13 Strength. That's basically a +50% damage increase... Practically after every second hit you'll get another full hit worth in damage. Sure comes handy with all the Flurrying, or when you want to reach that 51% of the remaining health with Deacapitation. Bigger hits mean bigger crits too.
So yeah, DEX or STR... that's something to think about.

35

Builds / Re: Stealth Sword Rogue DOMINATING build and questions about next patch

« on: May 31, 2020, 06:17:11 pm »

Might decrease Throwing as well, if you're planning mostly Flashbangs anyway, can also ditch the grenade related feats for something else. If it's just utility grenades, you could also save some points on Chemistry, however Biology is good where it is at 80. Maybe take Temporal for the MP/AP buff and it's related feat (especially with 5 WILL) and boost some Subterfuge skills.
Probably decrease AGI to 8 and raise STR to 7 so that you could take Decapitate - sounds nice if you use swords anyway and will probalby synergizes extremely well with Ripper.

36

Builds / Re: Stealth Sword Rogue DOMINATING build and questions about next patch

« on: May 31, 2020, 06:06:04 pm »

I've always wanted to try Brutality with Death Grin and planned a build myself, but never had the time, so I'm glad someone does it. Because of the high DEX and the wonder what CC can I have with Cut Throat and Dirty Kick (especially with Infused Rathound Tabis + Armor) and since I like Stealth charcters better, I decided to use knives - but Brutality will probalby be also great with Flurry and Riptose sounds nice. However I suggest you take Uncanny Dodge if you're going melee, especially in Dominating and wearing a light armor.

Evasion is useful against grenades, so it's advisable. Still I would crank up Intimidation more, just to avoid seeing Brutality resisted even at the expense of Mercantile - I mean your weapon will not be craftable anyway. Which might mean that Mechanics and Electronics end up not being that useful too.

37

Bugs / Re: EMP drain equipment in stasis?

« on: May 26, 2020, 08:58:48 am »

When it comes to Stasis, I can't help but think that if you use it in a battle on yourself, by he time it wears off you should wake up to a gun barrel at your face point blank, or a knife at your throat. Or some Lunatic can draw a penis on your forehead with a marker pen and you'll never know it.

Stasis - not even once

38

General / Re: Sniper sidearm (why pistols are underrated)

« on: May 25, 2020, 08:38:37 pm »

I know I don't need high DEX, it's just that with it you can at least eliminate the 60 MP requirement if you're using the kind of melee that is influenced by DEX (knives, knuckles), but even then it's value is debatable. High calibers not benefitting from DEX is also something I already mentioned here and in some other thread too. But I don't need Blitz. It's not that bad of an ability, I like that it's an AP buff that doesn't involve psi. But it's just a one-time buff due to it's long cooldown and to alter a build that is not revolving around AGI, just for the sake of it having this +20 AP in a single turn is not a good example of how priorities should be. One even takes Sprint solely to throw away the MP. Convert all those stats, feats, activations so that in the end, you can have ONE additioal shot every TENTH round... Wow.
The MP condition is what a high DEX knifer or hand-to-hand combatant doesn't mind much because with Fancy Footwork, they can just get free MP with each hit, replenishing that 60 HP easily with a mere 8 attacks. I also planned a knifer once just to play with the idea, even then I dropped Improved Sprint. To me, that seems much better than Blitz due to the lower cooldown with the Infused Cave Hopper tabis, lasting for two rounds and the fact that it doesn't take away MP but provides instead. Still the abnormal stat requirement is just too big of an investment to make it worthwile. Spending at least FIVE more stat points than what we need solely for this one ability is a bad idea no matter how I want to make it work. And it also takes two feat slots, the second just gives 10 AP to it. 10 AP and it requires you to have 13 AGI. A stat, that even my build without Interloper would only need 5 (although I always set it to 7 or 8, same with DEX). It's not like AGI influences any skill we use on Dominating aside from Stealth and we're already good on Initiative and MP to the point that even Sprint is a waste. Leaving these out allows me to spend stats and take up the feats that relates and benefits a ranged character much better.

39

General / Re: Sniper sidearm (why pistols are underrated)

« on: May 24, 2020, 09:11:52 pm »

I have many problems with Blitz. First, I don't see it as a good ability for anybody else other than a high DEX, low AP per attack melee with Fancy Footwork. Yaaay you get to enjoy 20 AP for a single turn. And it costs you most of your MP, 10 Agility, and TWO feat slots. That's sounds foolish. Two feat slots, because you have to take Sprint with it to be able to move two inch afterwards and if that's not the bane of a ranged character, then I don't know what is. Consider what other stats could you improve, what other feats you could take instead of those two, are you sure those would benefint you less that that 20 AP for a single round PER battle due to that huuuuuuge cooldown? Hell no.

The fundamental thing I absolutely wanted my build to have for it's own is consistency. High dps, but not once in a lifetime all blitzed and drugged up, but as long as I want, for free, granted only by my self owned abilities. X dps that I can reliably maintain on my own, not X+Y that I can attain for a moment, then suffer the after-effects. The effectiveness granted here doesn't even cost a psi booster until the 16th round, but no battle should last our onslaught for that long (10 psi regen is okay too with at least level 1 Philosophy). The consistency is based on kicking ass 3 rounds straight, then on the 4th performing some other action in order to continue having the luxury of doing nothing but attacks until we empty our next mag. And to be able to empty it by the time we recover our cooldowns that are reduced as much as possible.
So we shoot the 10th and last bullet in our rifle (or Kneecap Shot / Trap / Grenade), then reload our weapon (4 AP with Bullet Strap belt), reduce the cooldown (10 AP with Future Oriented Increment), restealth to use Snipe + enable Blindsiding next round and repeat the cycle. I don't see a non-craftable Vitality Powder with it's one time 2 round effect and it's crippling fatigue afterwards as something that I can fit anywhere here.

Drugs are something I cannot implement in my build because those are not part of the character. Combat drugs are situational. Of course we can use them occasionally, but I don't think they should be part of the daily grind of a build that is properly made. And they benefit every character the same, so there's no point in saying one is better because they pop an Adrenaline, the other can do that too. That's like saying that mine has more HP because I use a health hypo.



Silenced 5mm Hawker? Silenced pistol has to be a NeoLuger:)

40

General / Re: Sniper sidearm (why pistols are underrated)

« on: May 24, 2020, 10:01:52 am »

Upon checking some other builds online I do not see two great abilities mentioned - and even when they are, never really for the reasons they could be truly valuable for a sniper.

Quick Tinkering - For me, to employ of this ability outsie of combat even outweights it's use within. With instant traps, you can quickly sneak close to the enemy, drop a bear trap and dash back before their awareness meter turns orange. Setting up a trap that close the normal slow-ass way would be impossible, even with high stealth skill. Because of this, you can stop the enemy advance much earlier than placing traps further away from them in order to remain hidden - this will get you more physical distance between them, even in smaller areas. QT-denying the Black Clawler right as you drop by is also handy.

Interloper - Goes really well with QT making you able to perform the above mentioned tactic much easier. And while the movement speed is convenient, we can value it perhaps even more for it's MP bonus, something that I found to be underappreciated by others. Because the one thing this ability synergizes with perhaps even more than QT is Snipe. Shooting out of stealth while already in combat is not easy, due to the fact that it requires you to restealth at the end of your previous turn and remain hidden while the enemy attacks you. This might force you to restealth in cover as if you do that in the line of fire, you can get hit which takes you out of stealth. But if you do it behind a wall, moving out to shoot will cost you valuable AP which you could otherwise use to shoot again - making Snipe too expensive of a move. Because upon starting a turn while stealthed, you're without any MP. Even if Contraction is still on - if you begin your turn while hidden, you only get the AP bonus.
Interloper solves that by granting you 15 AP while being hidden, enough to move out of cover and allowing restealth to be much more accessible and a perfect move to end those speacial 4th turns I mentioned earlier. Especially since Snipe benefits from Smart lens and modules and are considered surekills, contributing Shooting Spree. Also reignites the bonus of Blindsiding all over again (if you somehow managed to squeeze that feat in to your build).

41

General / Re: Sniper sidearm (why pistols are underrated)

« on: May 23, 2020, 09:17:59 pm »

Supersoldier is a little meh, I can't see it being that beneficial. I mean an Adrenaline or a Focus Stim seems more useful. Regenerative Mixture on the other hand seems really nice though as according to the wiki, it can be used together with health hypos and that sounds ridiculous. I can tailor my build to have an effective 115 with both the 5 WILL and the 8 DEX+AGI version while keeping the social threasholds attainable.
The only thing keeping me away from considering this skill is the hunt for ingredients. How hard is to collect the items necessary for a Regenerative Mixture or a Hypercerebrix? Are they easy to gather?

42

General / Re: Sniper sidearm (why pistols are underrated)

« on: May 23, 2020, 07:48:29 pm »

This may just be the absurd min/maxer in me, but since you've already got tailoring and mechanics I don't see why you wouldn't make a set of infused pig leather boots - even just the cheapest crappiest ones possible - for the +30 carry and bring a set of Heartbreaker boots when you go down the elevator.  You're presumably bringing a Tactful Jacket since you're planning on Hypno Goggles, so there's +55 effective Persuasion.  Since in the early game you never need more than 45 effective, you can get your early threshold easily and then pretty much save the rest of your points.  You're gonna be lugging a bunch of crap into the DC anyway; I'd rather have more Bio so I can get better drugs.

Reasonable. Absurd min/maxer attitude is what makes the world move forward (at least when it's not about capitalism). There's the Lifting Belt too to increase carry capacity further. I like the 80 Persuasion it covers most checks. Those goggles are excellent, very underrated. Lightweight with a really strong bonus. Just by that, I could keep most of my equipment constantly on me and would need to carry only that. Putting it on is the equivalent of putting on a thinking cap. Look ridiculous and used only against hard nuts. And the thing is, after I attained what I described above by inviting a heavier psi influence, I spent my time with mostly cosmetic changes. 100 Throwing is too much, 70-80 is already good enough, but the zeroes are pleasing to the eye:) While with reducing Throwing to 80, one could have 135 in Electronics for top tier Plasma explosives without INT buff and 107 in Hacking enabling us to to restore IRIS.
But you have a valid point. However honestly, I don't know much about the drugs I can make above 50 Biology. And some ingredients seem like real rarities to me and I admit I never did any fishing in this game so far and don't even know how to... I just know that I will absolutely need Hypercerebrix, that being integrated to my build to reach 135 Electronics without bench for top tier plasma explosives and 105 Mercantile. So I stopped on 80 Biology for that and Bullheads. Latter seemed useful too with no particularly special ingredients. What is beyond that is unknown to me. Can those drugs be beneficial to a sniper to validate the investment?
One can play around this build still, lower Throwing or even Persuasion if needed with the mentioned boosting items in mind.

43

General / Re: Sniper sidearm (why pistols are underrated)

« on: May 23, 2020, 12:04:49 pm »

Usually I'm quick on deciding things, learned when to rely on intuition, also an Aries (not like I believe in any of that), but for some reason when it comes to RPG's, I really tend to overthink character creations. But I arrived at a point where I finally came to a halt in the form of still thinking on what should be changed, but now always end up coming back to a certain build realizing that it cannot get more suitable for my appeal - thus became a seemingly final landmark in the planning process which I turn back to regardless of how many time I set out to leave it behind.



As you can see, there's more focus on psi this time, mainly to keep Contraction rolling every 4th turn. Make the best of that 72 AP for 3 rounds and use the 4th turn with 50 AP (last before it's cooldown ends) for miscellanious things - cast Increment before everything else, then something out of another rifle shot, Kneecap Shot, grenade, trap, reload, restealth etc. Then proceed to do it all over again if there are still anybody left.
So. Again. Just to illustrate what this build is tailored to accomplish:
With our 3 psi-oriented feats and 11 psi regen, by turn 9 we cast our 3rd Contraction in a row - blessed by it's effect for 9 out of 11 turns without even using a psi booster. This will allow us to completely empty the magazine of our Spearhead by round 4 and still have 26 AP left. Cast Increment, reload, restealth and repeat. This means that by the end of turn 11 we were able to shoot our rifle 29 (!) times. No native should be left standing by then.



As for defense, I'll just go with Infused Pig armor and Pig/Bison tabi as Tygrende suggested earlier. Being able to boost my HP from 200 to 400 is just too good to pass up and would make my otherwise fragile character more durable. Social skills are covered too, 105 Mercantile with Hypercerebrix and 110 Persuasion with Hypno Goggles.

I mean you can still play around with this, drop WILL (and the Hypno Goggles) for +2 CON, or +1 DEX +1 AGI (and use Rapid .44 Hammerers for 20AP!). Meddle with the skills to still meet the social tresholds by other means - mostly at the cost of decreasing Throwing from 100 to 80 and TM from 70 to 60 loosing Stasis (no big deal). But what you see above is the main idea.

44

General / Re: Sniper sidearm (why pistols are underrated)

« on: May 22, 2020, 07:10:45 pm »

That's what I thought. Middle ground is 50%. With both crit chance feats, AA scope, but Seeker lens, wearing defensive armor. AA scope gives much better damage that what Smart goggles provide, although it's only for regular crits while Smart goggles provide boost for Aimed shot and Snipe too. I can't help but feel that the middle ground is simply a choice that is unmade and avoided - thus not really providing real benefit from either way.

But the thing is, you cannot just make a difference with drugs, you have to fully commint to one side with equipment and feats. What scope you use? What armor you wear? Do you take Reckless + Scrutinous or leave them completely? If you take them, you're ought to sacrifice defense too if you would want to give those feats any meaning, because on their own, they simply won't make a difference. One cannot judge these individually, I get the feeling that they have to be considered as a whole.



Another important thing to consider is that in case of snipers, crit chance really only affects normal shots. It involves a HUGE commitment and NONE of the special attacks benefit from boosting it. So essentially you'll end up with having a great way of attacking and stuck with some other way, that end up loosing it's use. Either have normal hits with damage that's near special attacks, so them and all their feats end up being obsolete, or special attacks that are fewer but better then ever, paired with crappy normal attacks.

Okay, this led me to think that maybe the middle ground is not that bad. I mean you still have your special attacks, but with a crit chance that's not the worst. Also cooldown reduction feats and spells will hold their importance. Allright, I guess I kinda answered my own question:) I'll see how it goes. I'm leaning for defense, but if by the time I get access to super steel I manage to develop a playstyle that I won't leave the enemy the choice to hit me that much to the point that I can manage with energy shields, I might go Rathound. Goggle-wise, I take Seeker to get at least that 50%. As for scope, I check how much damage I do and see if I really need that AA or not (see if Blindsiding can be squeezed in or not and can it make up for the loss in damage due to to not having an AA scope).

45

General / Re: Sniper sidearm (why pistols are underrated)

« on: May 22, 2020, 06:36:38 pm »

Allright, I'm now ready to start the game for real. For about level 20, the plan is rock solid. By that, I mean I know what I'm doing and why. But somehere around that part, a question that I was evading all this time really starts to burn on me. While still keeping our attention to boost critical damage, we have to make a decision between focusing on critical chance, or special attack damage. For unfortunately we CAN'T have both.

Crit chance with your Spearhead and your base amount will give you 18%. So that's a given. We can boost this for another 14% with Recklessness and Scrutinous. Could gain a significant increase with high quality (150) Seeker lens, for about 18%. Now we reached 50%. That's kinda decent. But is it enough? THAT is what I just can't really tell and surely hope that some of the nice people here can shed some light on this matter, or even just share some of their experience with what they had.
Because  if it's not enough, we can still push forward in this direction but from now on, every increase would involve severe costs and this is when uncertainity comes in. So from now on, everything will come at a much higher price. I mean while crafting our rifle, instead of the Anatomically-Aware Scope for the huge boost in damage, you can put a High Resolution scope for +10% chance, we can wear an Infused Rathound Leather Armor for an additional 10-15%. That's now a very reassuring 70-75% and if you use a focus stim you'll be near 90%!!!
But this comes in exchange for not wearing some proper armor with significantly better defense. Tygrende here posted an armor that boasts really good damage resistance, boosts HP with around 130 and combining that with Pig or Bison Tabi with for who knows how much HP sounds great. That's a lot to live without, you can basically double your own HP if you're having 3 CON on Dominating. The price here is 2 feat slots and without exaggeration, fully letting go of having passive defense outside of shield emitters. Is going full-glass validate a Sniper build that have a crit chance bonus worth that much? I mean you have to understand that it's not about loosing 2 feat slots, a good portion of your crit damage and your full defense for that 35%, it's about possibly not having crits when you need it and having kinda random crits when you might not expect it, OR reaching a state where you'll score crits with somewhat less damage, but with a chance you can rely on. A chance you can actually COUNT on. It's worth to mention that Blindsiding can actually be a useful feat here, since it will boost the otherwise lower damage due to not having the AA scope.
High crit chance would certainly help replenish Aimed Shot easier, but then again would you even need that at this point? Would this approach render all your special attacks useless?

Now if you focus on special attacks though, you don't have any reason to waste 2 feat slots for a mere 14% chance, could take up Ambush to somewhat counter that - very VERY situational, but at least under proper conditions it works. Could get around 75% chance with Ambush, basically the same which the other build has constantly regardless of enemies being in the spotlight or not... Anycase, another feat slot opens up and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone when I say I can name at least 2 that I would happily fit in it's place. So it sounds reasonable to abandon crit chance if one's not completely focused on it. Wearing Smart lensed goggles, you can add another 40% to your damage with special attacks, make both your special attacks all the more devastating. So with this approach, you're end up having Ambush and at least one free feat of your choosing ( for example the third Initiation raising feat, boosting you to 38-40), an armor with defense. However you'll only have 2 devastating attacks. Aimed Shot that you'll use once each turn if you're lucky and Snipe even less, with the stealth condition and the reuse time not being decreasable as with Aimed Shot, and the ability used mostly once each battle. However Snipe will deal 40% more damage and Aimed Shot will do even more with the AA scope. Blindsiding is unnecessary here.
But do you need all that damage at this point? Or is it overkill and with crappy normal damage, you'll actually be slower?