Messages

46

General / Re: Stealth???

« on: November 04, 2023, 04:16:03 am »

Hey everyone i am a total noob to this game and i am having trouble understanding the games stealth mechanics. as soon as someone appears on my screen they allready have the red eye above them and i dont know what i am supposed to do to change that.

Please tell me what i am doing wrong.

Stealth is pretty well done in this game. Here are some important things to know.

- every enemy has their own "detection" score, and it varies a lot between different enemies. If an enemy's "detection" is way higher than your effective stealth, then they will always instantly detect you whenever you are in their area of sight;

- your effective stealth equals your stealth score minus your armor penalty (percentage), if you wear any armor pieces with armor penalty. Some (lighter) armor has no armor penalty, and there are feats to reduce armor penalty. Some armor even provide bonuses to stealth and/or to agility (which indirectly increases stealth);

- whenever your agility is higher than 4, you get 8.5% bonus to your stealth per each point in agilty. Characters with high agility are thus always better for sneaking around;

- there is a "cloaking device" possible to either make (electronics skill) or buy (from electronics shops) which temporarily increases stealth;

- difficulty mode increases enemies' skills, including "detection" score, and so it's always harder to sneak in higher difficulty modes;

- Interloper feat makes you move significantly faster while in stealth, making it easier to sneak past enemies;

- when your stealth is sufficiently high vs enemies' detection score, you can move within their area of vision undetected as long as the eye next to their name is green and yellow, but as soon as it turns to orange, enemies become aware of your presense and start to move towards you. This is equivalent to you seeing some stealthed enemy but yet unable to target them;

- when your stealth is way higher than enemies' detection score, then even when the eye turns orange they're still unaware about your presense, but will still attack you if the eye turns red;

- whenever your stealth is high enough for enemies not to detect you instantly, both distance to an enemy and how well lit your character is define how quickly enemies are able to detect you. With sufficiently high stealth and/or sufficiently dark area your character is staying in, it's possible to sneak right next to an enemy (very next tile) and still remain undetected.

47

Builds / Re: General Build Guide for Heavy Duty DLC (Minor Spoilers)

« on: November 03, 2023, 03:32:39 pm »

Yeah I suppose Tricky Trajectory is only useful for the Fusion Cannon... which might be good? I have no idea where it is and what its stats are.

It's a 40 50 AP single fire, AoE weapon which does 100-129 base electric and 100-129 base energy damage per shot to an area (it has "ground attack" mode). Ammo is battery packs, and it drains itself in just 5 shots. Str 8, 130 skill requirements. It's definitely good against all the high mechanical resistance enemies, but soft targets - which is the most of enemies - something with lower AP cost and/or larger AoE (say, a minigun) will definitely be better.

48

Builds / Re: General Build Guide for Heavy Duty DLC (Minor Spoilers)

« on: November 03, 2023, 02:03:56 am »

One little thing i just checked: the new merchant ("just don't call me Rag" guy) seem to have no Mercantile check for extra goods - just talked with him a few times while having 201 effective Mercantile skill, nope, no extra goods to unlock.

Sad panda.

49

General / Heavy Duty 1st impression

« on: November 03, 2023, 01:16:07 am »

Obviously - SPOILERS. Stop reading if you don't wanna get 'em, ok?

TL;DR: Heavy Duty is an OKish little addition, but there are some non-game-breaking issues and some things i especially liked, too, which i'd like to share.


So here goes, in no particular order.

- there is a rift right before entering the compound - near air vent, past the broken fence. Reachable without doing any combat / skill checks. A rift is very nice - thanks, Styg!

- outrageous Lockpicking skill checks: very 1st side way after arriving is behind Lockpicking 160 door (!!!), air vents require more than 95 effective (110 with Huxkey) to open (massive increase over both DC and Black Sea), about half of locked containers require 120+ skill to unlock. Thing is, i really doubt people are going to get 160 Lockpicking for Heavy Duty only other than on Dex-based (Melee and/or Versatility) builds - especially because the loot quality is quite low for such skill checks:

- most loot is q95...q130 range, with some few items in especially hard-to-get places being q130...159. So, in terms of quality crafting components - Heavy Duty is completely not worth it, shopping for crafting parts is simply better (up to q169 in shops for many parts).

- the exoskeletons are quite nice. Can get one of 4 possible kinds. Of note, Technomedical exoskeleton is a new best-in-slot for boosting Biology and Electronics, and by significant amount, especially Biology as we did not have any +biology body armor until now (afaik). One nasty detail about this one though: in 1920x1080, this exoskeleton's description fails to be completely displayed (no item price visible) - even while it occupies almost whole screen (see attached screenshot). Is this a "new UI, WiP" sort of thing? %)

- a number of locked double doors can only be unlocked when interacting with the "proper" half of the door; trying to hack the other half won't work.

- the fabulous companion can't fight a damn. Gets killed real fast - even couple goons wipe him out in a single turn. It is sure possible to keep him alive using available "tactics" conversation and such, but it is sure unknown - to me, - why would we want to do so. Other than just for a self-challenge of the "baby-sit a stupid weakling NPC" sort.

- there is no "global map" for the whole new area (all of the main compound plus caves plus rail tracks), which is many times bigger place than "no map" part of the spore forest in DC. The only thing this does to me - is irritation. If "unknown remote places" are not supposed to be added to the global map, then why all the caves in the base game and all the "natives" shores in Black Sea are? Don't know if this is intended, though, because:

- 1st quest objective of "Dark Territory" says "Marjorie is the best place to start looking". So i went and repaired Marjorie's "instrument panel", with 4 lithium cells and advanced electronic kit, having well over 100 electronics; repairs were a success, and this objective got completed, and the game said that i "took the time to study the map well" - but "global map" still has nothing, i.e. only displays big fat "?" whenever i open it and press "center on player" button. Even while the 2nd objective - is also completed (it reads: "you've studied the map of the dark territory north of Upper Underrail"). Bugged quest? Or maybe _this_ map only unlocks the way out, back to main game - not sure if it does...

- the puzzle for the Fusion Cannon: it ain't difficult to pass the laser beams without getting caught by any, but it is difficult to figure out why to do it. Can just waltz in and grab the thing right through the lasers, and it's definitely much faster, too. Why bother doing it the "right" way, then? Strange. If the proper "punishment" was disabled by that strange power box in the cave (which i flipped before grabbing the cannon, yes) - then it'd be sorta better to switch off the lasers too, me thinks.

- all the quest objectives, overall - are pretty useless. "Protect the crew" is marked as "completed" as soon as the crew dies - in my book, this should count a failure. Just like "The Gunslinger" quest objective is marked as a failure once he dies. There ain't no follow-up to neither of those, it least wasn't in my game. Next, "investigate the compound" - and again, no follow-up, nothing prior to it, too. Why should i investigate it? What should i be looking for? Any significant things i happened to encounter worth noting as a "job well done investigating: found this, found that" kind of note? Nope, there's just nothing. Next, charging up Marjorie's batteries: the game says these gotta be charged when interacting with 'em, ok, i charge them to full, the battery bay slides in - and then nothing happens. Maybe i failed to figure a way to drive her out, or maybe it's bugged as i really looked for it - in any case, there ain't no quest objective to get her running again. Nor any other objective once i got all the above mentioned objectives completed. There's just nothing to do according to quest log. So i ended up running back to proper Upper Underrail on foot. Feels weird to have this kind of "conclusion" for a quest line. Feels unfinished.

- Guns / Heavy Guns synergies being as high as they are: one excellent thing to see. New builds having one of these skills being much higher than level par - will automatically bring the other skill close to level par or even right to it, i.e. to 160 by level 30, etc. Means this "other, just synergy" skill - will allow to use corresponding weaponry as backup / situational weaponry, either saving costs or allowing more tactics, or both. Nice.

- Versatility feat now including Heavy Guns skill: another nice thing to see. With full specialization and a certain belt, 90% Versatility percentage is doable, and now that it gives not 2, but 3 other skills up to that high, Versatility builds are going to shine lots more. Which is good for Versatility-based is usually more complex and rich kind of a build to play.


P.S. These are my thoughts however silly or short-sighted they may be. Hopefully not too much. Good luck working on Fusion, Styg!

50

Builds / Re: General Build Guide for Heavy Duty DLC (Minor Spoilers)

« on: November 02, 2023, 08:17:32 pm »

...
They come at you from all sides and automatically track your location even when stealthed. The arena itself has a huge portion inaccessible to the player until the encounter starts, so you can’t really preemptively set traps, and the terrain is constantly shifting so it’s difficult to break line of sight. Something like a Master Demo belt Crit grenade launcher build could probably beat it, but I’m sure that the vast majority of builds don’t have a chance.

Ok, quickly went to the place in Normal, lvl 15 character, to see what's what - and instantly found something the above advice fails to account for: the staple Interloper + Ninja Tabis + Rathound Regalia work very well, allowing to remain hidden while moving faster than enemies do. Can get a bit tricky sneaking out of the center at the start in Dominating (it ain't in Normal), but that's what a good cloaking device and consumables will be for.

Then it's just going around the perimeter of the area, taking out enemies one by one, reentering stealth by using vanishing powder grenades or even simply running away (following the outer wall) for a few turns. Looks pretty trivial.

51

Builds / Re: General Build Guide for Heavy Duty DLC (Minor Spoilers)

« on: November 01, 2023, 09:37:27 pm »

Tchort is single target 8k health with regen, while these are multiple targets meaning AoE will help much (grenades, electro pistol aimed shot, thermodynamic destabilization, etc). Retreating to safe room in Tchort fight is not an option for a lvl 6 character, 'cause then there won't be a way to get back to Tchort through all the minions, so it must be done in one go. Also, Tchort does increasing "everywhere" damage, which for level 6 character is a serious threat in a prolonged fight. Last but definitely not least, level 6 is massively less capable than level 15 - the latter can get crafting skils all the way to 180sh with high Int, which for said sniper / energy pistol build means having all the highest possible crit multiplier energy pistols, all the highest base damage sniper rifles, and powerful feats to further multiply doable damage. Thus "on paper" it still seems a good argument - i mean hoping to see a level 15 beat this new place knowing a level 6 can do Tchort. How it'll be in practice - again, "we'll see", of course.

52

Builds / Re: General Build Guide for Heavy Duty DLC (Minor Spoilers)

« on: November 01, 2023, 07:20:17 am »

I had a gut feeling you'd say 0%, yep.

I love me a challenge. It'd sure take a fairly long while even if possible, ofc. You probably know Tchort was beaten with at least as low as level 6 character on Dominating, which gives some perspective on what can be done given sufficient effort. So, we'll see about that 0%...

53

Builds / Re: General Build Guide for Heavy Duty DLC (Minor Spoilers)

« on: November 01, 2023, 04:46:10 am »

Interesting.

What would be your estimate for chances to beat that secret encounter with a level 15 sniper / energy pistol build on Dominating? Note, level 15 only because intentionally not levelling up any higher - gear and supplies all top notch, DC and Expedition fully completed, etc.

54

Bugs / Yahota went AWOL into some higher dimension

« on: October 24, 2023, 11:29:21 pm »

The attached screenshot demonstrates a talk with Yahota over Navcom which was made few seconds before taking the screenshot. She says she's here, but walking on every available spot of this small top of the tower area does not spot her anywhere. Also, another talk - exactly same words spoken - was made few seconds prior to entering the top of the tower.

Quests-wise, this happened after getting the thing in the mutant dungeon, opening the big old ruin in the camp, talking with professor after he went down there, then sailing around a bit, getting the messages and quests to investigate Nexus of Technology and Horticulture Center (which quests are still active and not completed), going through the former, sailing around some more and getting the message about professor being kidnapped, and then going back to the Expedition camp. No interaction with pirates whatsoever - nor with their spy in the camp - were made. Also, no interaction with Yahota after doing 1st (mandatory) camp defense - the tower stood closed all the way till "now". I.e. pretty usual going with Expedition quest line.

P.S. I conclude, assuming she's not lying to me, that she's indeed on top of this tower, but she's currently in some higher dimension, which is why it is impossible to detect, or bump into, her.

55

Builds / Re: Limited Crafting Rambo Challenge Build

« on: October 22, 2023, 01:21:45 am »

Who's Rambo?

56

Suggestions / New feat: 3rd weapon slot

« on: October 20, 2023, 10:52:05 pm »

I'd like to be able to have 3 active weapon slots.

Reasons:

- sniper builds tend to go around weilding a side arm for low-AP ranged attack, which makes them unable to kick and punch when they possibly could. An empty 3rd weapon slot - or even, with some melee weapon - would allow that. Or, using two sidearms - one SMG for burst fire and one pistol to benefit sidearm single shots from Sharpshooter. Etc;

- energy pistol builds often go around with Eletroshock and Laser pistols in active weapon slots, these being definitive weapons of such builds - and then, again, no melee attacks are possible. Or they could happily use 3rd weapon slot to also equip Plasma pistol, which otherwise usually is not used at all;

- melee builds can always use larger variety of readily available weapons, given significant variety of both bladed and blunt melee weapons in the game, plus various (often expensive) temporary enhancements;

- all builds would have easier times switching to/from Jackknife, +1 Str glove, +10 electronics/hacking glove and such.

P.S. In real life, mediaeval knights usually carried three weapons into battle: a polearm or similarly heavy primary weapon, like a long two-hander sword; a short sword for closer encounters; and a dagger or knife as 2nd-arm / last-resort weapon. Modern times, a typical US marine combat loadout - as well as any other modern "infantry" kind of armed force - is an AR, a pistol and a knife, and that's carried not in a backpack, but within hands' reach at all combat times, even when handing some other weaponry (multi-barrel grenade launcher, an LMG, an RPG, etc).

P.P.S. Maybe this feat if added could be named "Third arm", or "Shiva".

57

Suggestions / Re: Oculite Whisperers

« on: October 20, 2023, 09:54:01 pm »

Doesn't sound comical to me - mastering something is not equal to being forced to use it. Maybe they intentionally prefer Thought Control abilities. That said, i agree - it'd be neat if they'd use everything. Like, maybe have them use an equivalent of psi beetle brain in a jar, except casting only hostile on their enemies and only beneficial (if any) on themselves.

58

Builds / Re: 3 PER Shotgun build - can't aim, dominate anyway

« on: October 19, 2023, 04:14:04 am »

4 Str with RR was not the point, but you're right about it being OK for most sniper rifles, yep.

Forgot to mention - it's a "no Versatility" build, so nope, it ain't it.

Infinitely more useful than W2C ammo - for completely different reason than ones you proposed, too. Also, W2C is not hard to get nor craft, 'tleast for me; Expose Weakness won't be specced, so it's 50% plain; and last but definitely not least - sniper builds dish out so much damage that even -35% mechanical resistance reduction is already enough in practice. Even in Dominating, which this sniper build i made is intended for.

It's kinda not easy riddle, yep. Good try tho!

59

Builds / Re: 3 PER Shotgun build - can't aim, dominate anyway

« on: October 19, 2023, 12:00:45 am »

...
Yes, its a 3 PER shotgun build, at level 30 with 160 skill points into guns this build has an effective guns skill of 143. Some underrail veterans must be having a seizure right now.
...

I like this line!

But seizure is a bit strong word. Maybe there are things even more seemingly wrong and ridiculous. Like the one i just concocted: Expose Weakness feat, and corresponding 40 hard skill points spent into Melee, yet not a point higher than 40 - taken at level 12 by a sniper build which goes with 4 Str and 3 Dex. How come _that_ could ever be reasonable? Just does not compute, does it?

Thing is, not only this gets highly useful, it gets _infinitely_ better than W2C ammo.

How so?

That's a riddle i'd like to see you to crack, man - if you got nothing better to do (i bet you got, though). But who knows. Just don't get a seizure, yeah. %)

60

General / Re: Mysterious Disk connected to Shadowlith?

« on: October 16, 2023, 11:11:27 pm »

Thank you guys. Interesting to know!