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Messages - Eliasfrost

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91
Development Log / Re: Dev Log #26: Alternative Experience System
« on: January 18, 2014, 03:36:00 pm »
I guess what I'm trying to say it that the neither of the XP systems should be treated as "standard" or default, because one XP system is better for certain playstyles than the other, and vice versa. The oddity system is disengaging and unadventurous for combat style characters while the classic system is unrewarding for passive players. No system is perfect, I understand that and I'm not asking for a perfect system, it's more or less the way the game treats the system that I have a slight problem with.

New players that are getting into the game and play the game "the way it's meant to be played" will pick oddity system and most likely find their choice of activity disengaging and unrewarding if they choose to play an aggressive playstyle.

I'm not trying to bash the new system, I'm laying out the potential problems it can cause down the line and explaining my experience and thoughts about it. And while the system is not supposed to be realistic my view on it is that getting better is one of the main goal of the game (because that's the way you gain access to new content traditionally) and when the activities that you choose to participate in don't progress your character, it disengages me and I spend more time collecting oddities to progress than actually doing stuff I like.

What I mean is that this system doesn't really reward all playstyles but it feels like an easy solution to another problem. And that problem is that passive playstyles don't get rewarded enough in classic, so instead of creating mechanics and reward stealthy players for their stealth playstyle (or diplomatic), the oddity system simply paint it over with a one-dimensional XP gain system that all playstyles benefit from, and from a single activity no less, without actually utilizing their playstyle, see where I'm coming from?

And I don't really know if killing stuff was the primary way to gain XP for me, it was quests (and lockpicking/hacking), killing was a part of XP gain yes but it never felt like I was required to kill stuff to progress. And I played primarily stealth characters.

92
Development Log / Re: Dev Log #26: Alternative Experience System
« on: January 17, 2014, 11:43:18 am »
I think the best way to utilize the choice of XP system is to simply pick Oddity for stealth and speech characters and classic for all other playstyles, oddity doesn't work for any other than the two passive playstyles.

93
Development Log / Re: Dev Log #26: Alternative Experience System
« on: January 17, 2014, 02:02:45 am »
Similarly, it doesn't makes sense you can kill stuff better by researching an item... I understand what is trying to be done here and again, I don't really mind the system so long as it's optional. but I feel this system is much worse and much more contrived than the classic system. I also understand that it's rather hard to make up a system that would make 100% sense otherwise you'd only get good at something by doing that something. You'd need a system where ratehr than gaining XP to level up and distribute points, you'd need a system that would award XP to specific skills as you use them. The problem then becomes that you could just be amazing at everything.

Unless you train, like in good ol' Gothic. I really liked the XP system in that game. If you're not familiar, it basically did so that you gain XP from doing various things, like killing enemies and doing quests etc. But instead of traditional XP you gain "training points" that you spend to learn new stuff from trainers around the game world. Be it increasing a skill or attribute or learning new tricks within a skill or a whole new ability.

---

My biggest worry about the new system is that it feels like a compromise rather than catering to different playstyles. Because it boils everything down to treasure huntering to power up your character and in lots of ways that doesn't feel very adventurous. Right now, I don't feel like I'm making personal progress because I'm not getting better at what I do by doing it or by actually exploring the world in a natural sense. Let me explain:

Before, you could gain experience in a number of ways including killing stuff, picking locks, disarming traps, doing quests etc. I felt like I gained XP from activities and that what I was doing actually meant something for my personal character, even if I could put those points I earned through killing things to mind control, it still felt like I was rewarded by my actions and that they strenghened me, it felt meaningful to pick locks, it felt meaningful to overcome a hard battle or successfuly persuade a character.

In the current system, I don't feel like I'm making personal progress in the same way, it's more like a treasure hunt (like I said above) and when I have all the pieces of the map I somehow get better at the stuff I do when I'm not treasure hunting. It feels wrong, it feels artificial, and that's what I mean when I say it feels like a compromise. It doesn't really cater to all playstyles, it more or less cripple the whole experience for all playstyles in order for some to work.

That's basically how I feel about the new system, it's a good thing that you can choose between classic and oddity, I really do prefer the classic XP gain style.


Feel.. feel, sounds weird now after som many times  :o

94
Development Log / Re: Dev Log #27: Version 0.1.10.0 released
« on: January 16, 2014, 08:17:04 pm »
@Styg, I will try that, thanks for the suggestion. :)

95
Development Log / Re: Dev Log #27: Version 0.1.10.0 released
« on: January 16, 2014, 07:19:59 pm »
After playing the new version for a couple of hours I think I have a good grasp on the new economy changes and I have a few thoughts on it and I'd like to share my experience with the new system.

Specifically about stocking, I thought it was a pretty interesting concept when I heard about it first. But as I play the game I've come to the conclusion that I really don't like it at all. Here's why and sorry if it sounds frank but I want to be as honest about it as possible:

Selling stuff as an activity is normally one of the worst parts of any RPGs with massive amounts of loot and Underrail was no different, selling stuff just isn't very engaging and really never have been but when you add to it that you don't just need to catch the guy with enough money and ability to buy it from you, you also need to make sure that you can sell enough of a certain item to the guy. This makes you run around every merchant in every town just to sell your stuff and it's such a tedium that you rather not sell anything at all.

I bascially stopped selling items after the first time in Junkyard because it took me a mere 20+ minutes to empty my inventory. So now when I see loot I don't pick it up because I know that the downside of trying to sell the stuff outweigh the pleasure of earning that extra money by far. This has also lead me to being rather weak because I have no money to spend on medical equipment or ammo. And it's really not fun, it's not challenging and it doesn't force me to think about what I pick up because the game makes sure that I don't pick anything up at all, I'm sure this is not really the intent of the change but it really up'd the tedium to eleven.

Other than that, I think it's some great changes, I've not played enough to really get into the new XP system but right now it's a bit odd but all right.

96
Development Log / Re: Dev Log #26: Alternative Experience System
« on: January 16, 2014, 10:35:28 am »
Most quests in The Elder Scrolls are built so that you use your skills within the quest and thus you lvl your character either way, be it your weapon skills or speechcraft etc. But I hear ya, I think it's an interesting idea, I'm just a little worried is all. :P

97
Development Log / Re: Dev Log #26: Alternative Experience System
« on: January 14, 2014, 03:46:50 pm »
Will some oddities be gained exclusively through quests? If not, then what's the point of doing them? Are you planning on increasing the reward for quests? because the main reason I did quests was to gain EXP and with the new system I don't see any reasons to do them other than simply just "want to".

98
Development Log / Re: Dev Log #26: Alternative Experience System
« on: January 13, 2014, 01:37:02 pm »
Is the EXP requirement accumulative or is it always the same amount of EXP requirement to lvl?

99
Development Log / Re: Dev Log #25: Game Economy Changes
« on: January 09, 2014, 05:50:50 pm »
Some people seem to forget that you also got a room, and I don't know about you guys but I ALWAYS use my room as storage in any RPG. So if you wanna sell something later, store some extra supplies that you can't carry or have some neat amours or guns that are too heavy: USE YOUR ROOM.

And yes, I am the type of guy that locks his room with the keycard after I leave.

Omg, I've never thought about using the room. I've rerolled dozens of characters but I've never thought about using it.

100
Development Log / Re: Dev Log #25: Game Economy Changes
« on: January 09, 2014, 11:03:58 am »
These changes are going to be in the next version, I guess we have to play it and then decide whether it's excessive or not. I agree that by the sound of it, it feels like the inventory management is a bit out there and not what we are used to but I'd like to try it out and see how it blends together with the rest of the game.

101
Bugs / Re: Target Practice
« on: January 06, 2014, 10:40:53 am »
Pro-tip: You can go into the range and hit it 10 times with your fists, that way you don't waste any ammo. ;)

102
Development Log / Re: Dev Log #25: Game Economy Changes
« on: December 25, 2013, 12:19:29 pm »
I like a weight system that rewards you for thinking ahead and only picking up what you need and the most valuable items. With the scavanging nature of Underrail I think it's a very good implementation to only pick up what you really needs and skip the junk or the items that your build don't use. Great changes!

And merry christmas everyone!

103
General / Re: Hard Combat Sessions?
« on: December 14, 2013, 10:32:17 pm »
I think combat is very rewarding when you get the hang of it, in the beginning it's really hard and you die a lot. But as you learn the different strategies and how to use the weapons efficiently, each victory feels very rewarding as you've overcome the difficulties and master the mechanics.

Sounds awfully similar to Dark Souls.. Maybe not. I dunno.

104
General / Re: Scrapers, Black Eals who i put the knife in the Back?^^
« on: December 09, 2013, 02:35:52 pm »
Gratz, but you still have to finish the unofficial last quest: Kill everyone in SGS and Junkyard. :)

105
Development Log / Re: Dev Log #24: Combat Initiative
« on: December 02, 2013, 10:13:22 pm »
Love the addition of initiative, the lack of it was definitively one of the weaker parts of the game. I dig the new content as well, but I agree that it looks like the drills are floating.

Btw, will you charge extra for that rathound armor? ;)

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