Deep Caverns Are Poop: issues [minor spoilers]

[swampzero]

Am I missing something here.  Or is it supposed to be this annoying? I mean I'm dealing with it, but WHY .


First of all, why are you introducing so many new plant/humor material but never give me a single vial to extract em?  You gave me 300 god damn batteries and MILES and miles of shelves filled with electronics, but i can't get a damn vial to save my life.  Haven't been able to make a single hypo since getting down here, if I didn't have the regen vest I'd probably be in an unwinnable-state by now.

Second, there's a building with  I Swear To God 20 doors all requiring 90 hacking. Why.  What's the point of having all 20 require hacking. If you wanna have a hack-check just put 1 keycard behind a 90-hack door.  I know you're not doing it for the batteries because you gave me 200 of them so either you're doing it to piss me off or by mistake?  And they all guard a bunch of chatlogs that I was entirely too pissed to read at this point.

The unlimited enemies and the difficulty are fine honestly. I'd enjoy it, even, if I could stop worrying about how to process all these plants and maybe make a hypo.

[swampzero]

I'm not sure if thats the place, because theres no map, but it was in the statue square, top right building. I think I did find a keycard inside there, but the doors still needed hacking, all of them. 

edit; if you remember the location, spoil it for me so I can check if i DID pick it up.  I already opened all the doors so I wont be able to check if it works, but I can see if i missed it.


Also I don't buy the better prepared line.  I have a regen-armor so i can convert the 10 thousand batteries i found to health, but what if someone didn't have that particular armor piece? It would be a huge difference.  And considering the warehouse blocks provide you with literally every other item in the game, I'm starting to think I missed a vial stash somewhere, because it makes no sense.

[player1]

There is also a glorious power of save/reload.

Something I quickly learned using oddity system. If area was full of monsters and not a single decent loot or oddity, just go back in time and either stealth it or avoid it completely.

[swampzero]

By the way, I was looking at my saves trying to see if I still had one with the doors unopened, and realize that the saves mention the name of the zone below their screenshot.

Is that information available anywhere else in the UI? I kinda wish I knew about this sooner so I could tell apart warehouses A and B or random research stations without trying to remember Havrost's directions

[chimaera]

Yup, that's the place. I'm not entirely sure, but I believe the master keycard was in the janitor closet, southwest corner of the first floor.


There are even bigger differences between character builds. Keep in mind that not all players have biology skill. But everyone should come prepared with the stuff that they need the most. If you use a lot of ampules to process organs and plants, you really ought to know by now to always carry few dozen with you. Especially when descending into unknown with no guaranteed way back.

The warehouses don't contain literally everything, they're mostly filled with electronic/mechanical parts, some equipment and common ammo (including batteries). But maybe I should poke Styg about the ampule thing once again. If anyone else feels like DC is lacking ampules, please post about it here.

You assume that the player got such a warning. Consider the following sequence of events: my character failed her interview, got attacked by the tchortist and had to fight her way through. Not that I mind, considering the find in the basement. But the cut scene at the elevator already made little sense: you have one tchortist running in to warn you (and where did he come from? my mage killed those in the west wing too), then the faceless come in, then you get down the elevator and that's it. You get no forewarning that you are about to "descend into unknown", because when the quest line begins you are on your way to infiltrate the institute, and once you fail the interview, there is no way out.

I actually like the area design in itself(I'm currently still playing around in the mushroom cave). I can see the idea behind the placement of mushroom turrets and obstacles; it would be a fun game playing against them; figuring out when to take cover, to shoot, to move. Would be, if not for the HP bloat of enemies, which makes fighting them a chore instead. "Especially when descending into unknown with no guaranteed way back." is not really an excuse for bad design.

[nerdz]

As much as I like the game and as much as the deep caverns are the dev's vision, it's unquestionably the low point of the game. It puts you in a point of no return without enough warning. It strips most things that are good about the game (the nonlinear world and characters) and locks you in for almost a third of the game. It feels like every minor detail was made to annoy you and make you quit, like that power plant power allocation that makes you walk there way more than you need to. I managed to spread the word about the game and got at least 10 people to play it, and I've yet to get one single positive feedback from it.

[tenim]

i think, deep caverns is the only but big design flaw in the game. reasons:
* unlimited enemies. no game i played in the past had THIS game mechanics. why? it ruins the entire game. ressource-management are useless. frustrating.
* no healing stuff to find. in combination with the unlimited enemies -yummy.
* no hints where to find the needed parts (door). no map, no fast travel. you are forced to try and error >=20 hours to find it out and if you made a mistake or take to long (out of healing ressources) -restart the 20 hours part. very frustrating.
example: it is not possible to know where i am actually in the map. the areas has no names, i must save and look, how the savegame description was named. arke power station: i have 10 possibilities to power up an area. but i dont know where this area is.

my hint:
disable the unlimited enemies and add a map with fast travel to the locations you are always visited. this would be a great benefit. the entire game would imho benefit from a map and a fast travel system.

[swampzero]

and add a map with fast travel to the locations you are always visited. this would be a great benefit. the entire game would imho benefit from a map and a fast travel system.

Absolutely NOT.

travel is already one of the better parts of the game, and even the lack of maps is cool (if you let the player know theres not a map item,s o he can start keeping track instead of using a wiki).  Those parts were the good things about the game.

but I agree with you with giving the player a unique name for every  zone just so he's able to label his map at least

[swampzero]

Also its kind of unfair I guess to make a single thread about bad stuff when I've been playing this game nonstop for 60 hours and like it as much as the A+ titles that came out, but deep caves really need some tweaks!!

[Toast]

I have made a topic about the Deep Caverns in the Suggestions forum if you want to add your thoughts to it. I agree the DC need work and the devs are more likely to see it in that forum than here. And I also agree the rest of the game is brilliant, or I wouldn't care so much about the problems at the end.