Low-tech build viability (no crafting / hacking / lockpicking)

[Zetor]

Hey all,

So after playing several different builds at different stages of the game (including DC), I've noticed that all of them seem to have something in common: maxed lockpicking/hacking/traps and at least 2 maxed crafting skills as well (usually 3 or even 4 depending on build).

The question is, then: is it possible to create a build that has NONE of these skills? Which archetypes could make a build like this work, considering the implications (no access to a lot of loot containers in the game, inability to disarm traps, can't craft any uber gear and rare consumables...) and remain viable throughout the entire game?

So far my vague concept is a tri-spec psion with throwing for backup... it checks out on paper, and the abundance of skill points could be used well on talky skills thanks to high will. Another option would be a diplomatic gunslinger praying to Tchort daily for good shop inventories, maybe.


Has anyone played around with craft-less / hack-less builds and have any insight / experience to share? Thanks!

[Toast]

Sure, I think you could do it. A lot of the loot you find in locked containers is crafting stuff anyway, useless to a non-crafter except as vendor trash. Since you won't be able to explore ventilation shafts and many alternate routes will be closed to you, you will have to expect a lot of extra combat, though. Even if you get really good at stealth, there will be crowded corridors and true-sight bots that you just can't get around without lockpick skills.

Not being able to disarm traps is not a huge problem as long as you can SPOT them to avoid them or set them off from a distance; I'm playing a 0-Traps character right now with high Per and it's just fine.

The psi-talker sounds like a fun character to try this with. Finally, a reason to invest in Mercantile! Traps might present more of a problem here, though, due to the low-Per nature of Psi builds.

[Elhazzared]

I'm not sure how viable it is, but it should be viable to do so.

In the early access, quite early in fact, when as far as you could go in the main quest was the junkyard. i made a build that crafted nothing. Granted I used lockpicking and hacking because hey, loot. However I didn't needed to craft anything back then. I just did a tri psi build with crossbows (cause stun bolts are the shizz) and stealh. Removing the lockpicking and hacking leaves you 2 other skills. Since right now you don't really need extra loot at all because just what you kill is probably going to give you more than you can sell already, I don't see a need or these anymore other than the ocasional tactical advantage of unlocking a certain door to possibly go aroud the enemies.

Of course I don't have much knowledge of how the game is right now because I'll not suffer the current economy settings to live, but I doubt you'll need crafting to win. Also PSI was majorly nerfed so you probably can't do the good combos you used to be able so I don't even know if PSI is even viable at all right now. My guess is no but again, can't say for sure without playing.

[player1]

Currently playing "craftless" character. On the other hand have both lockpicking and hacking.

Currently in Railroad Crossing and no issues so far.
In fact, less loot to keep, more loot to sell.


Anyway, If I would to play low-tech character, I think I would still take at least lockpicking. Its just so versatile (loot, doors, vents...)

[Coaxl]

I'm actually doing such a playthrough too, among others - zero points in any of the crafting skills, though I did get the entrace-opening skills in exchange. It's a very simple sledgehammer build, with eight skills I put five points each into every time I level up: Melee, Dodge, Evasion, Stealth, Hacking, Lockpicking, Traps and Intimidation. Simple and straightforward - perhaps not perfectly optimized for power, but I'm playing her more for the flavor anyways. I've managed to get him through the (now nerfed) Depot A just fine, although some of the fights with many mutants took a couple reloads. I guess I could do alright without Hacking and Lockpicking too, I just don't want to miss everything. There's not that much in the containers that I really need anyway, aside from medicine and maybe a few other auxiliary objects every now and then.

[Zetor]

Thanks for the input, all! I'm mostly set on the psion, though lack of perception will hurt. Paranoia is probably not enough by itself, so I'll just have to pray for some blast-proof armor to appear in shops (and do a lot of scouting via pyrokinesis).

And yeah, I'm deliberately ignoring hacking/lockpicking -- want to see what it's like to play without them, since they seem to be such a staple for all builds.

[Elhazzared]

If you take my sugestion, go with psi + crossbows. Grenades are nice but ultimatly, unless you want to throw very far you probably won't miss by much anyway. Besides you won't need grenades that much The stun are nice, EMP too, that's mostly it and situational. So just take 7 perception, get the perk that gives you 3 perception for detecting secret passages and you'll find all secrets. Also crossbows don't need strength so you can just go 3 str.

As for the 2 things that you put instead of lockpicking and hacking. I've always been a fan of diplomacy. Having more dialogue options tend to be great. As for the last. really, whatever you'd want. Mercantile if you want more money, throwing if you really want the throwing accuracy.

[Frank]

I usually play without hack/lockpick now.

Crafting is another matter. The ability to make custom gear is just too good. The main thing is that what are you going to take instead of crafting? Even if you take throwing, one weapon skill, all the psi skills, you still have 3 skills you can max. I suppose stealth, evasion, dodge, pickpocketing, and intimidation.

All skills, except for intimidation, persuasion, and mercantile hugely benefit from crafting. If you shop around the items you can buy and loot are more than powerful enough to beat the game. A good way to look at it that a crafting build is a master while the non-crafter is a jack of all trades.

[Zetor]

I made the decision to skip crafting and lockpick/hacking entirely because I'm honestly curious to see how the game plays without them... they seem quite integral to gameplay, especially crafting. Anyway, I'm not very good at build theorycrafting, but I'll post with what I've come up with so far. I invite everyone to poke holes in them!

IMO a psi build has to be it, since not having crafted weapons/armor in endgame could be crippling for other builds, especially crossbows (lack of psi armor and bio consumables will still hurt, but what ya gonna do). The base of the build could be something like this:
STR 3
DEX 3
AGI 3
CON 3
PER 3
WIL 10
INT 6 (for Premeditation and Meditation)
Skills (all max): Thought Control, Psychokinesis, Metathermics, Intimidate (only social skill with a combat benefit)

This leaves 9 stat points and 4 skills.


Tank variant:

STR 3
DEX 3
AGI 3
CON 10
PER 3
WIL 10
INT 8
+ Persuasion, Mercantile, Dodge, Evasion
Feat choices: psi feats, Yell, CON-based survivability feats (Fast Metabolism, Last Stand, Thick Skull)
Medium armor, unarmed with tazers and the occasional EMP/flashbang/molotov for extra control, 0 throwing skill be damned.

This is essentially the same as Nerdcommando's Psion build, trading the craft skills for talk and evasion skills. It's got good survivability on paper even with crap agility, but essentially zero non-psi options, which makes me a bit leery. Full coverage of social skills AND evasive skills could be pretty nice...


Throwing / dodger variant:

STR 3
DEX 6
AGI 3
CON 7
PER 3
WIL 10
INT 8
+ Throwing, Persuasion, Dodge, Evasion (variation: Pickpocket instead of Persuasion)
Feat choices: psi feats, Yell, Grenadier, Fast Metabolism, Deflection (not going to be wielding any mainhand weapons), maybe Nimble. Trading a point in INT for Three-Pointer doesn't sound like a good idea since this build needs to pump WIL.
Light armor, unarmed with grenades and other throwing items (nets?).

Dodge may work to offset the loss of HP and other defensive potential even considering the low agility, and throwing can give a secondary offense option, though throwing knives are going to be weak due to lowish DEX. Needs too many non-psi feats... and it may be too squishy, especially since crafting infused light armor is not an option.


I also thought about a melee and gun variant, but they would be spread way too thin IMO (gun variant needs PER and DEX/STR, melee variant needs STR/DEX and AGI). Still, if anyone can come up with a workable build that uses guns or melee weapons/fists, it'd be quite welcome!

[Frank]

Those builds look stupid as hell. going past the required 6 Int for persuasion and mercantile...WTF.

[Izual]

You can leave out crafting completely with a psi build, but you'll miss the excellent psionic armors that you can make with azuridae carapace.

[Zetor]

Those builds look stupid as hell. going past the required 6 Int for persuasion and mercantile...WTF.

I ended up using 6 int in my final build (the +2 were essentially leftover points), but thank you for your concern and constructive input, good sir.

If you're referring to the skill choices being stupid, note the central theme: no crafting / traps / lockpicking / hacking allowed! This is definitely not a min-maxing build, I know from experience how useful crafting is for increasing character power for basically anyone. That said: what would you do differently? No stealth is a personal choice, since I just completed a stealth playthrough.

You can leave out crafting completely with a psi build, but you'll miss the excellent psionic armors that you can make with azuridae carapace.

Yup, that's the idea! So far I'm up to about rail crossing and it's doing fine... more than fine, actually, way better than the crossbow build I already completed the game with. Only weakness seems to be trap- and stealther- heavy areas -- but I'll just avoid the Lurker base this time, and Crawlers are trivial to defeat via forcefield without taking any damage other than the initial sting. Mines are easy to manage with blindfired pyrokinesis, too.

e: final build I went with was 3-7-4-7-3-10-6. Taking psi feats as a priority for now. Will eventually get Grenadier, but honestly psi has enough AOE at low levels that grenade spamminess isn't required even for the tougher setpiece encounters. Deflection/Nimble/Yell are in the pipeline, eventually, but I needs me some Locus...