Mixed psi build

[Sanger]

Hey,

Just started playing the game a few days ago with a pure psi build. I'm doing okay so far, but I'd like to restart before I get too far in, as this isn't really the sort of character I wanted to play. I'd heard that playing the game to completion is more or less impossible for characters that spread themselves too thin, which is why I specialised heavily in psi, but I really want to play a mixed psi character with a dual focus on one psi skill and pistols, plus some skills for maximising game content (hacking, persuasion etc).

I don't know how to set up my stats so that this could conceivably work. Don't know which perks are important to build towards for either a pistol user or a psi user, either. In fact I don't even know which psi skill would synergises best with a pistol user, though I'm thinking maybe thought control.

So tl;dr, can anyone offer an explicit build for a pistol/psi character? I'm looking for stat spread and perks, but also would like advice on which psi skill to go for out of the three.

Thanks.

[chimaera]

I think the problem with this character idea is that, while thought control would still be very useful (though a bit weaker) with only 10 will, pistols on their own require dexterity, perception and a bit strength (unless you are willing to forego steadfast aim). And that means you would indeed spread your stat points around. I don't think there is any real synergy between psi and pistols anyway, unlike between psychokinesis and unarmed.

A few psi abilities work even with 3 will and minimal skill investment (only as much as it's required to learn them): cryostasis (no save, only immunity protects from the effect), electrokinesis (again, no save, just immunity), force field (you can shoot and throw things when standing at the edge and then step back for cover), and maybe pyrokinesis to blow up some traps. So in theory a standard pistol build (which I can't help much with, as I've only played a mage ) could still get some limited use out of psi.

[Sanger]

Yeah, I think you're right. Looks like pistols just demand way too much specialisation to synergise in any way with anything that doesn't also use dexterity or perception

I saw someone suggest that you could build a character that could benefit from a psi skill and rifles simultaneously, would this be more feasible? Only need 5 strength and max perception for those, right?

[chimaera]

I think you need a minimum of 7 strength for most assault rifles (but not all?) and high perception, so a mixed psi/AR could work, since you can dump dexterity, unlike with pistols. Thought control with a splash of psychokinesis is probably best; even with 10 will a combination locus of control followed by an offensive ability like bilocation is nasty. The only real downside I can see is that with both low dexterity and agility, your character would loose initiative rolls most of the time. And with the psi hit point penalty, I'd suggest not lowering your constitution too low.

Maybe something like this?
strength 7 (add 1-2 points to get 8-9 and wear the best armor)
both dexterity and agility at 3 (oh well)
constitution 5
perception 8 (add 2, not sure abut what perception feats ARs use)
will 8 (add 2 for locus of control, but this can wait, because you also need high thought control)
6 intelligence (for premeditation)
If you leave your strength at 8, you can add 1 point to intelligence and get some crafting feats, which is probably better. I don't know how well the heavy armors compare, but my mage managed just fine with a tactical vest and a crafted shield. The only notable exception were enemy snipers, because they seemed to have infinite range (e.g. she would get shot by an enemy outside of her sight range).

Keep in mind that I've never tried a guns character, so I might get some things wrong. 
edit: I also had a look at the possible AR feats and wiki indicates you need 7 strength for full-auto.

[Coaxl]

I don't like the idea of thought control as a backup psi school. I think it's the worst support school for a firearms user of any kind. It focuses on dealing with living things (which your rifle already does), its disabling options are quite expensive, and it doesn't help with robots. I think Psychokinesis is much better (Telekinetic Punch is a stunning ability that is cheap on action points, though not psi, and synergizes with high strength if you take the right feats, Electrokinesis is a great anti-robot and crowd control option that also stuns, Electrokinetic Imprint is a perfect instant-use trap, and Force Field is great for terrain control). I think even Metathermics is better than Thought Control as a support school, though I'm not sure of that. I'd go for more Psychokinesis, and then maybe you can dump a few points into one of the other schools, although that's not strictly necessary. (Maybe you could get the bare minimum 30/45 TC for Frighten/Bilocation respectively, since Frighten is another type of disabling you can use while the enemy is stunned and bilocation is quite useful in certain circumstances, though I'm not sure how effective they would be with low Thought Control skill so you might want just Psychokinesis.) This way, since you wouldn't be getting Locus of Control, you wouldn't need to go up to 10 will, only whatever the feats related to your most-used psi skills require.

[chimaera]

Locus of control lets you use those disabling spells as an area of effect. That is a huge advantage in terms of psi point costs, e.g. mass bilocation, lock the room with a force field. By comparison: one telekinetic punch, one enemy down and half of your psi. Even dedicated psi mages tend to run out of steam very quickly. Sure, electrokinesis works against robots, but so do emp grenades - I've actually found them better, because they also remove shields from plasma sentries. Force field works well even with minimal skill investment, the force user feat doesn't require much skill either. Having played a metathermics-focused/grenadier mage: metathermics is not worth it. In my opinion it actually becomes the weakest psi skill towards end game. The related feats work very badly with each other - thermodynamicity means you need to use fire and cold spells interchangeably, which means you will remove any effects applied by them, and none of them come even close in usefulness to locus of control. Immunity to mental effects doesn't seem necessary until you take on the tchortists or faceless, with their thought control psi users. Much tougher than robots, because robot attacks are stopped by a good shield, buying you enough time to dispose of them, but mental attacks bypass shields & armor and even with high will you are not guaranteed a save.

[Sanger]

I think you need a minimum of 7 strength for most assault rifles (but not all?) and high perception, so a mixed psi/AR could work, since you can dump dexterity, unlike with pistols. Thought control with a splash of psychokinesis is probably best; even with 10 will a combination locus of control followed by an offensive ability like bilocation is nasty. The only real downside I can see is that with both low dexterity and agility, your character would loose initiative rolls most of the time. And with the psi hit point penalty, I'd suggest not lowering your constitution too low.

Maybe something like this?
strength 7 (add 1-2 points to get 8-9 and wear the best armor)
both dexterity and agility at 3 (oh well)
constitution 5
perception 8 (add 2, not sure abut what perception feats ARs use)
will 8 (add 2 for locus of control, but this can wait, because you also need high thought control)
6 intelligence (for premeditation)
If you leave your strength at 8, you can add 1 point to intelligence and get some crafting feats, which is probably better. I don't know how well the heavy armors compare, but my mage managed just fine with a tactical vest and a crafted shield. The only notable exception were enemy snipers, because they seemed to have infinite range (e.g. she would get shot by an enemy outside of her sight range).

Keep in mind that I've never tried a guns character, so I might get some things wrong. 
edit: I also had a look at the possible AR feats and wiki indicates you need 7 strength for full-auto.

This looks decent. I was actually thinking about sniper rifles, not assault rifles But the same idea can be easily adapted for either. Snipers have a lower base ability demand than assault rifles, which would let me go heavier on psi and use guns as secondary (hopefully). I had the same experience with you regarding metathermics - it does make the early game much, much easier in my experience, but it loses a lot of power quickly later on. And I never found much of a use for psychokinetic punch due to its enormous psi cost. I do kind of like psychokinesis though... I never bothered using it enough previously to invest in proxy; perhaps that would be worthwhile if I can find the skill points to max two psi skills.

[Wildan]

With thought control as a support discipline it's much harder to make a proper hybrid, especially with a gun oriented character. Thought control relies heavily on your skill vs enemy resolve so it's naturally pretty much an "all or nothing" school which makes it ineffective for everybody without high WIL score. Hybrid characters who want to use it reliably will most likely be glass cannons which is dangerous because of -25% max hp from PSI but it's still doable with Locus of Control and strong crafting (mainly regenerative vest and high capacity shields). Sniper rifles are not very stat hungry weapons so they present an interesting option, especially because of the synergy with the thought control ability neurovisual disruption:
http://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Neurovisual_Disruption
Being able to restealth in mid-combat without flashbangs (which you should use as well) is godsend for a sniper.

This is what I had in mind (think of Ezra from SGS):



Last three feat slots are flexible. You could put something else more to your liking.
As a sniper you could infact even dump STR entirely and strictly use the unique Dragunov sniper which has no STR requirement at all: http://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Dragunov
Unfortunatelly it has no smart module either so your snipe damage will not be all that good, possibly not enough to one-shot tougher enemies.

You could save 2 stat points from that but I would still recommend to keep 5 STR for 2 crafted Spearhead snipers, both with smart module and rapid reloader so you can shoot for 24 AP. One is with regular scope specialised for snipe attack which will help you with precision, the other with anatomically-aware scope for your Aimed Shot criticals and all shots where you don't need the extra precision from the first sniper. Ideally you will open up with Snipe, use Aimed Shot, then some PSI in the next round and restealth if possible. If not, continue using PSI until you can use Aimed Shot again. Basically you're balancing sniper special attacks with your PSI cooldowns and your PSI point pool. That's why you don't really need a PSI beetle carapace on your tactical vest. It's much better to keep your regenerative vest with 0 armor penalty thanks to reinforced fabric and Nimble. It will keep you and your shield longer alive and compensate alot for low hitpoints. Doctor's pouch is naturally the most usefull belt for this build but I'd advise you to use +30 HP lifting belt until you can craft a proper shield. Early game it translates to something like +50% hitpoints on a hard difficulty glass cannon.

6 AGI is a no-brainer, you need it for some basic defense, stealth and Sprint is always helpful to kite away and reposition after you've done your shots. 7 INT is very important for this build, not only for the crafting feats, but also because this character will be extremly skill hungry: Maxed thought control + some psychokinesis (mainly to qualify for force field and eventually electrokinetic imprint), maxed guns, maxed stealth, maxed dodge + evasion, solid mechanics, electronics, tailoring + some biology for the regenrative vest and hopefully a bit of hacking and lockpicking. The last two are optional, I would not raise them beyond 70 effective skill (incl synergy bonus, Huxkey, Jackknife and DEX Eel), should be enough for most basic locks. It will be quite a challenge to balance all those skills, especially crafting, even with regular use of Junkyard Surprise (temporary +2 INT). One could dump evasion but the shield will then get eaten up pretty quickly, even with huge capacity crafted via Power Management. Stronger melee attacks can get alot of damage through the shield so dumping dodge isn't the best idea either for a non-metal armor glass cannon.

Skillwise you'll probably have to make some compromises along the way. After the few first levels, at level-ups best raise crafting only so far until you can craft your desired item WITH the use of Junkyard Surprise (9 INT total). Always use the character creator to exactly see how much basic skill investment you need (use +2 INT option).
http://underrail.info.tm/?build=AwGlEYBYQJgVhAgzCAbCF4IxAdhOEgqCQUWQocgBwiSmjXTWlLPRV3Fg-BA

But hey, this is all just advice... do whatever &%$& you wanna do!

LOL just kidding. This is all theorycrafting for I never actually played a PSI oriented sniper. As a permadeath player I'm usually too scared of playing PSI glass cannons but if you give it a go tell me how it works out for you.

[chimaera]

Thank you so much for this post! I was actually thinking that it should be possible to do a sniper/thoughht control character, but as I have no idea about guns, I wouldn't even know where to start.

You are right about resolve being a problem (but my guess only on enemy psi users), but there is one feat - mental subversion - that helps a bit with that. (That's how tchortist psi users managed to stun my mage, because this debuff lasts quite long and stacks. I think it is percentage based, so the higher your resolve, the bigger hit it takes - but I'm not 100% sure about this)

Even if it is just theorycrafting, I like the character concept on itself, it kind of reminds me of Kerrigan from Starcraft. 

[Wildan]

Good thing on Mental Subversion, I added it to the build above.

[newageofpower]

Firearms crush robots if you bring AP ammo. Alternatively, sniper rifles work fine too.

Surviving enemy Psi late game is far more important; I cannot emphasise how much Locus of Control can do; focusing out of CC and then premeditated bilocation + force field beats so many encounters even before your crafted gear comes into play.