Are snipers just terrible?

[Apostrophe]

Huge damage per shot is nice, but when you can fire only 2 shots even with Psycho-temporal Contraction that just translates into 2 dead enemies per round and a lot of waste overflow damage.
Elemental crossbow, SMG, SI pistols, etc all do one-shot (or one burst) one-kill but attack 6+ times per round. And even against really tough enemies sniper is bad, who cares if sniper bullet does 20x more damage when SMG can fire 60 of them per round. Ammo efficiency is nice, and SMG is an economic burden to play on dominating for most of the game, but that still does not make sniper good or even decent.

And I can't even see them as a good second or backup weapon, maybe for assault rifle but you really want two of them, one low AP to proc commando and one high caliber monster.

Any redeeming qualities I am missing?

[TheAverageGortsby]

You can get 3 shots per round no problem with a Rapid Reloader (or the one low-AP unique) which is usually enough to get stuff done.  On DOMINATING, the HP bloat is sufficient that you can't really one-shot most enemies with pistols or crossbows except with special attacks (obviously) so the one-hit potential is pretty nice, especially against pesky enemies like Ancient Rathounds and Goliath Azuridae and Death Stalkers, any of which can eat your lunch if you don't make them dead right away.

Sniper doesn't take many feats to be good, so it works really well with other firearm builds that don't take many feats to be good, like AR (or maybe SMG/pistol if you can handle the Dex problem).  You can kill off the high-threat enemies from a safe distance and then just do AR/SMG/pistol stuff like you normally would.

No, they're not terrible. They're second-tier, along with every other good build that isn't full psi (which really is the only top-tier build, unfortunately).  Maybe you just don't play the game in a way that lends itself to taking advantage of the strength of the sniper.

[cypherusuh]

AP consumption is pretty much the "weakness" of sniper rifle. You could use Dragunov / lower caliber w/ RR if you want lower AP. It works really well on super tanky mob. I tried sniper/shotgun and it works really well. The classic combo was sniper/SMG, but I don't like SMG due to massive bullet drain
Pure sniper is doable with bagful of caltrops and bear trap every now and then

[Apostrophe]

I don't think you can fire 3 times without Psycho-temporal Contraction and Adrenaline shot which gives you 4 turns of fatigue after it ends so it's not something you can use all the time.

You can one-shot everything with a proper elemental bolt with a crossbow on dominating, with laser pistols it easy to stack crit to 100% with insane multiplier and good damage from intelligence, and even if they don't kill in one shot they will in two. 9mm Chimera with AA scope and Muzzle can mow down half the map if you get lucky.

They are definitely not in the same tier as other weapons, and I would even argue that some weapons are in the same tier as PSI since Expedition.

They really didn't receive any meaningful buff with expansion, Psycho-temporal Contraction does not give them more shots, they didn't receive OP belt like Bolt Quiver, specialization points don't really give them a meaningful damage boost they already one-shot everything, they don't really benefit from Versatility specialization and higher stats like light weapons, etc. They even have a strength requirement.

Sniper/Shotgun does sound nice, I am going to try that. Maybe PSI/Sniper for some shenanigans with Thermodynamic Destabilization. I know it can work, I just think it was left really far behind and need a serious buff.

[Hazard]

You can shoot a Rapid 7.62 Spearhead three times if you have Psycho-temporal Acceleration fully specialized (so Psycho-temporal Contraction gives you 22 action points). You can also use Vitality Powder instead of an Adrenaline Shot to get +25 AP, which means you can get off a fourth shot during the two turns that the powder's effect lasts. Yes, you will be hit by fatigue after this, but as a dedicated sniper you should have a good chance to run away, go back into stealth and do all of that again. The latest 1.1.1.0 update actually added an item that can instantly restealth you, even when you're visible to enemies, so escaping is easier than ever before.

Snipers were definitely improved by the expansion. They received an exclusive new feat, Shooting Spree, which is pretty awesome by itself, but Strafe was also added, and it will completely eliminate the move and shoot accuracy penalty of a Spearhead. Being able to move around freely without reducing the accuracy of the precious few shots you get per turn is definitely not insignificant.

[Apostrophe]

You can shoot a Rapid 7.62 Spearhead three times if you have Psycho-temporal Acceleration fully specialized (so Psycho-temporal Contraction gives you 22 action points)

Totally missed this, huge difference, thanks

The latest 1.1.1.0 update actually added an item that can instantly restealth you, even when you're visible to enemies, so escaping is easier than ever before.

What and where

[destroyor]

Agree w/ earlier poster - RR 7.62 Spearhead should be your weapon of choice.

Imho, Sniper should go psi hybrid for CC and max Metathermics for Thermodynamic Destabilization (ThermoD). ThermoD can translate your high single hit damage into AOE damage. I've also seen other ppl mentioned using sniper psi hybrid build that would max thought control + getting Locus of control. I think that's also a very effective sniper build (EMP grenade can cover your weakness against robots).

[Hazard]

What and where

This thing: https://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Vanishing_Powder_Grenade

[Apostrophe]

What and where

This thing: https://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Vanishing_Powder_Grenade

That is awesome.

Back to topic, Temporal specialization is a redeeming factor but I still think that snipers really need a significant buff. Gonna start PSI Sniper on dominating, it will be a fun and capable build but compared to the current state of light weapons and crossbows they are just miles behind. Not sure should I just drop AGI to 3, with forcefield and stasis I can remain pretty stationary and never have to shoot after moving. AA scope or Smart Module for Aimed Shot (Critical power?). What about Cryogenic Induction? Pacifier seems like a good headgear choice for this, not sure.

[Shredded Cheddar]

Yeah, when you can just grab an AR and fire off 3 7.62 + 1 9mm burst at 9 shots each and then throw a grenade after, you usually dont even need to do anything with premeditation since most of the map is cleared.

It definitely makes other weapon choices that don't have aoe potential feel less powerful on the harder difficulties where theres increased enemy density.

[Ploluap]

Psi sniper is pretty cool and powerful.

One thing to consider is that with snipers it is much more "economic" to use W2C bullets than with burst weapons, so armored targets aren't really a problem. On dominating that's nice.

But you need grenades and/or thermo destab to deal with larger groups.

And of course a 7.62 rapid reloader spearhead.

[Apostrophe]

https://underrail.info.tm/build/?HgUHAwMMCgbCoEgAAAAAwqBTRwAZUlIoRghLLcKgRgAATSsxASwWKjUwfsKHAiFLM2XCpMK1wrjCnOKnvgrisZYE378

This is the current plan. Quick tinkering, Grenadier, Premeditation and LoC for utility/control, all relevant sniper feats, 100% crit with Ambush. I also went with Psionic Mania and Empowered Metathermatics for great nuking potential.

Problems are really tight skill points, I have to take Psychosis at level 2 and that really sucks, have no idea how reliable just 140 Thought control is and do I need to drop hacking or something else to bring it up a little. Played 135 TC tin-can before expansion but I got bored with it before DC but if memory serves it was 100% successful up to that point.

I could just abandon Psychosis/Empowered Methatermatics but I really like the idea.

A little scared of the mid-game, all builds i played on dominating could kill/cc significantly more enemies per round at that point, and after using Temporal Contraction I cant Premeditation-Forcefield myself up to a wall when I make a mistake or have bad rng thanks to LVL 2 Psychosis, at least not until Philosophy II.

[TheAverageGortsby]

have no idea how reliable just 140 Thought control is
I could just abandon Psychosis/Empowered Methatermatics but I really like the idea.

On DOMINATING 140 effective will result in some of your Enrage/Fear/Incap getting resisted.  It's not a huge deal since you'll have other tools at your disposal, but you'll feel the difference between 140 and 200 effective skill. Above 200 you're mostly just increasing NO damage rather than significantly improving Resolve threshold checks.  If you plan to wear a psi headband you'll get quite close to 200 with that character.

Your most powerful Metathermics ability, ThermoD, won't benefit at all from Psychosis because it can't crit; your remaining psi is all at support-tier skill levels and thus crits won't really be a huge deal.  If your conops is something like "Premed -> ThermoD -> [DAMAGE] -> loot" then you'd be better off skipping Psychosis entirely.  That would free up two feats and give you some real breathing room.  I think for a psi-support sniper, you'd get more benefit from Pyromaniac than from Psychosis - all Psychosis does is increase your damage output, and you already have a high-output weapon that you're good at using.  Pyromaniac gives you a entirely new tool for your toolbox, and that's quite valuable.  EDIT: Or, obviously, switch out Psychosis+Mania for Tranquility+Meditation, giving you that extra psi pool so you can in fact hit multiple panic buttons when things go awry.

[Apostrophe]

I was planing for Psychosis+Cryokinetic Orb as a backup or to compliment Thermodynamic Destabilization when enemies are spread out, the damage would not be too far behind pure PSI build, and it's just cool thing to do from time to time.

But Tranquility would be better and make early/mid game easier instead of much harder. It just went under the radar for me, I have big and not really justified preference for Psychosis PSI. I'm gonna go that route, thanks.

[dddmemaybe]

Snipers.. Think of the classic sniper, you kill and reposition so they can't find you. If you can re-stealth completely successfully, probably with traps and flashbang + decent agility and maybe sprint, they are about as good as a crossbow trapper. Problem is arenas don't always allow you to move, snipers in an enclosed environment obviously worse than open environments, just play any shooter vs game like Halo or CoD. If you can have a good environment, you can kill all easily and take zero damage. Snipers need to lose combat state or are inferior to crossbows which do damage just by trapping.

edit: if the Sniper feat used critical hits, then Anatomically Aware Scope + Critical Power could see more damage than Crossbows per shot, but, since sniper rifles can't abuse Deadly Snares + Critical Power like Crossbows can it isn't easily as effective.