Spikes and Blades (and Armour)

[UnLimiTeD]

Ok, so I actually got far enough to test them extensively.
A few observations:

On boots, both seem to be notably weaker than on armor, yet adding additional plating to boots seems to have no such penalty.
For a heavy Melee character, using armored boots and spiked armor seems like the better choice.
In addition, the boot blades/spikes only work on unarmed attacks, whereas the armour upgrades work just fine with a knife. Makes some sense, but if there's a kick animation, I get even less why the upgrade is weaker on boots.
Also, metal boots grant no acid resistance, while the armour does. Now walking through a pool of acid barely harms me, but it's not thanks to the boots.

As for how spikes work; the extra damage being applied in an extra package, and only for standard attacks, kinda hurts it's viability, as it won't actually help with damage penetration at all.
I'd like to at least put the spikes on a Sledge in that case. I'm past the armandillo with a pure melee char using kohlmeiers knife and his fists, but I find myself regularly going back to a sledge, even though that means only one attack if I have to move even a half square;
A heavy Punch won't do jack since the spikes aren't affected by this at all;
If they even apply, the crippling strike won't even apply the extra damage, nor will the dirty kick, and it sure must hurt more if there's serrated blades on the boots.

[Styg]

Regarding your comment on acid resistance and boots - it is not relevant from what piece of armor you get resistances in regards to what part of the body you incur damage.

Spikes/blades should apply on special attacks as well as on regular attacks, so I'll fix that.

They are indeed a separate hit which I think is fine otherwise they might become more-less mandatory for every character. What are your thoughts on this?

I'm thinking spikes/blades on boots should be stronger than the armor ones because of their limited use (unarmed only). You're saying this is not the case right now from pure damage amount perspective?

Heavy punch is only the first step in making unarmed viable. There's still special gauntlets to come.

[UnLimiTeD]

Powerfists? 

So far, spikes and blades seem to be weaker on boots than on armor, across the board.
As for them being separate, that's generally fine (though I'd like a "Bodycheck" feat, then), it's just that heavy armor doesn't go well with melee at all;
For an unarmed character, you need high dex, either agility (speed) or will (range) and if you want to wear heavy armor, better dump that agility, because you also need 8 strength minimum and some constitution as you sure as hell won't evade anything.
Also, for actual good armor, you need a modicum of int, it's rare to find a decent one in the shop; Last (my first full) playthrough, I haven't seen any tungsten armor, regen or galvanic vest components, good helmets, decent knives, or armor with a good amount of spikes or blades, in any vendor at all.
It might be a lot more viable if you could put spikes on leather armor, or get aluminium and titanium alloys.
On armor that heavy, you suffer from MAD, so the only proper weapon seems to be an actual weapon; And why not pick a sledgehammer if you have 8+ strength anyways?

I'd suggest an "Armor Training" feat that reduces the adverse effects of item encumbrance, say, capped at 80%, f.Ex.
Also, energy shields might fix the entire issue due to allowing you to be slow and short ranged and still have a fighting chance.

[Styg]

Yeah, I have at least two types of power fists planned atm.

Spikes/blades on armor are meant to boost melee damage of heavily armored characters. I'm aware that's not an option for someone who wants to go with lots of evasion and dodge type of build. You can still use the boots as you can mount those on any type of boots (but I need to look into the damage ratios there as you suggested).

Regen vests are rare, but they will be more common later in the game when you get access to more higher level stuff in the stores. Same with tungsten armors.

Shields are whole 'nother aspect we'll discuss when I implement them.

[UnLimiTeD]

Definitely looking forward to it! 

The problem with the spikes is that it's just not feasible.
Aside the whole problem that melee characters are preferably fast, if you wear heavy armor already, you can also use sledgehammers.
Given that the majority of unarmed/knife feats are based on Agility and Dexterity or require low encumbrance, it's actually the only sound choice.
With the average (current late game) opponent having between 5 and 10 treshold, you need to go all out spikes, as just one set won't actually deal much damage;
With a Sledgehammer, you attack once, maybe twice per round, and the spikes won't really add much to the output anyways, while costing you additional protection you might have otherwise had. You'd probably be better of with a Vest.

Interesting sidenote: Metal Armor is significantly better against high powered shots than ballistic vests. I think that's kinda odd?

[Sakuragi]

Regarding your comment on acid resistance and boots - it is not relevant from what piece of armor you get resistances in regards to what part of the body you incur damage.

Spikes/blades should apply on special attacks as well as on regular attacks, so I'll fix that.

They are indeed a separate hit which I think is fine otherwise they might become more-less mandatory for every character. What are your thoughts on this?

I'm thinking spikes/blades on boots should be stronger than the armor ones because of their limited use (unarmed only). You're saying this is not the case right now from pure damage amount perspective?

Heavy punch is only the first step in making unarmed viable. There's still special gauntlets to come.

Anything for unarmed is good. Cant wait for more buff on it before i seriously tried one.

[Styg]

Interesting sidenote: Metal Armor is significantly better against high powered shots than ballistic vests. I think that's kinda odd?

You do understand that mechanical damage threshold (flat damage reduction number) is tripled against firearms for tactical vests?

[UnLimiTeD]

So the best I've seen so far is 13 (39) mechanical treshold.
If the enemy deals 60+ damage with a snipe shot, the vests get to their limits, while the 60-70% damage mitgation of a full metal suit will be just fine.
On a possibly related note, in the past I've had shots deal damage even though they should have been completely blocked by a vest; I haven't been able to reproduce it, though.

[Styg]

So the best I've seen so far is 13 (39) mechanical treshold.
If the enemy deals 60+ damage with a snipe shot, the vests get to their limits, while the 60-70% damage mitgation of a full metal suit will be just fine.
On a possibly related note, in the past I've had shots deal damage even though they should have been completely blocked by a vest; I haven't been able to reproduce it, though.

Well, vests aren't meant to save you from snipers, but try them out against pistols, SMG/assault rifle burst fire or frag grenades and they should perform better than metal armors (for less encumbrance too, don't forget).

If you manage to reproduce the bug you mentioned, let me know. Is it possible it wasn't a firearm?