Is a mad chemist build+temp manipulation viable?

[Carlitosh636]

So after my full psi and sniper builds I'm thinking about making a mad chemist/doctor kinda character, with Guns for the chem pistols, Throwing/Chemistry/Biology for bombs/ammo/consumables, Mechanics for crafting guns, Electronics for useful gadgets, Hacking/Locks because they are basically mandatory and then I have space for one more skill. So I'm between Traps, because with the crafting skills I can make some neat ones, or Temporal Manipulation, which is my favorite Psi discipline because of utility.

However, I don't know how to properly distribute my stats. I supose that I should focus on Int, so can I dump Will or is it going to affect my psi? If I go with psi, how much Con do I need to not die on one hit? Do I need Dex for pistols? Should I even take Temp manipulation? I appreciate some guidance.

[cypherusuh]

Pure pistoleer requires high dex, which increased subterfuge skills, so picking trap is pretty good choice.
You could go hybrid, can't really go wrong nowadays. Only need 55 TM to get psi haste and you could also pick 45 Psychokinesis for Electro Imprint

For base stats, 16 Dex should be your target to make Chem pistol cost 16 AP, which allows you to shoot 3x, or at minimum 11 Dex for 2 shot + point shot (refer to this for AP table)
https://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Dexterity
You could go "hybrid" by abusing Versatility. Max Dex (16 + 2 veteran + food buff), then max melee. It'll gives quite a lot of Gun skill without too many perception investment. Although you still need 6 Per for feats.
I also recommend at least 6 INT for Premeditation, it's an auto pick whenever you pick Psi.
The rest is up to you. 6 Agi is nice for sprint and boost your stealth a bit, more CON is also good for new players, but 3 CON is very doable.

For crafting skills, just follow Dominating-viable build around here. Most of them are quite optimized. Or refer to that In-Depth FAQ Steam post for skills hard cap.
With very high Dex, you could probably run max Throwing, too. Three-pointer is really good, and with your high effective skills, it will be much more reliable to 1-shot stuff

[chimaera]

if you want psi only for support, you can leave will at 3, but you need 7 intelligence to get the mad chemist feat. Another one to get for the chem pistols is cooked shot. For support you can use either traps or grenades (in either case pack rathound might be useful, because they weight a lot), but I wouldn't use both.

Regarding equipment, look for the catalyzing belt initially, but eventually you'll want the advanced catalyzing belt:
https://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Advanced_Catalyzing_Belt
Between the belt and temporal psi you can get a reasonable no. of attacks even without investing everything into dexterity, so stat distribution shouldn't be a problem.

[tyrtix]

i'd go for a good quantity of int so you get your crafting and chem feats, and this will leads to less need to invest into crafting skills. Tbh, traps are easy to use even with minimum skill if you want to just use them to direct your enemies where you want, throwing is a bit meh sometimes and won't give (in my opinion) the results you want, most of the times, also you can still use them at zero skill.
I'd go for temporal manipulation and use psy bands too, then with the points out of crafting skills for high int, get 45 metathermics and get full advantage of the combo advanced cat belt + pyro and cryokinesis skills.

[cypherusuh]

Throwing is actually very reliable if you have at least 80 effective. And with high Dex, it's very chea investment. And if you wanna snipe using grenade, I think 123 is accurate enough for 7 tile ahead. Trap also requires bit of investment, else enemies will spot it and disarmed or just move around it
For headgear, psi band isn't that good, since it offers pretty small bonus with 3 Wil and minimum investment, better put on seeker or smart for that Cooked Shot AoE crits / bonus damage

[tyrtix]

i got over 150 throwing in my last run, and dammit, there was no way, i had to reload most of the times i had to throw a grenade, even if it was just 3 tiles away: once i was able to throw a grenade in a diagonal square from my position, so i was exactly on the corner of the explosion, and the grenade fell exactly on my tile.

You can use traps in various ways, including making the mines explode when you want, by using pyrokinesis or grenades. Psy band may not be the optimal choice, thou maybe 15 psy points more can let you use a pair of powerful psy skills at once at start of combat...

[cypherusuh]

You need to take Neurology feat to increase psi point, and that's pretty bad imo.
Atm I'm running with 50 throwing and I never missed that bad, only exception is the GMS bandit, since you have to throw at perfect spot twice in a row (grenade + flashbang), got so fed-up, I ended up just using bear traps and throw it just to provoke them.

[tyrtix]

heh man, i really have no idea why my character is so bad with grenades, but i ended up pushing the skill to high levels to see if i could be any better, and got so frustrated i just said "fek, next run i'll put zero points in this".
For neurology, well, cryokinetic orb+ cryostasis at first turn is not that bad, and while premeditation reduces a lot the cost of one of them, you can still launch something else before finishing all the psy points. The fact is that it's hard to determine how useful neurology is, but when i tried it, for me it was not marginal.

[cypherusuh]

It depends on priority I guess. And I think that prioritizing pistol (which means seeker goggle) is better

As for throwing, maybe your character has bad eyesight or something. 80 throwing are supposed to have 90% chance on 3 range

[tyrtix]

easier strategy, i think, i like different and it works very good for me: cryo and pyrokinesis with better critical chances does wonders to groups of enemies, even with low psy skills are often much better than grenades, and you can exploit the fact they just need psy points to be used; also, they have other effects that nades don't have.

[cypherusuh]

It depends on which grenade we're talking about. With at least 80 throwing and at least MK3, it's good enough to kill non-DC stuff. Mk5 probably melts anything, and with three pointer proc, it's definitely much stronger than pyrokinetic, at least damage-wise. Pyromania proc is very useful for ambush, though

[tyrtix]

too simple is what you say: you can't find many mkIII for sale, and they costs a lot, so either you need ways to make money, wich probably means feats and/or skill points, or you need chemistry too, wich makes you need likely 120 to 150 skill points to make that thing effective as you say...then you need to carry the nades around, this could even not be a problem but still adds to everything else, and you crits only with the correspondent feat added, while 45 skill points makes  pyrokinesis already effective for some purposes, and with a single feat it becomes even better, with the chance to proc burning. This, on top of the fact that with the same 45 skill points you also get cryokinesis and cryostasis, and pyro stream too wich sometimes is very useful...dump a few skill points in more and you get the cryo ball wich is even better, and obviously all of that adds to opportunist feat, wich increases the damage output as much as the goggles do (while you can also have goggles and opportunist).
There's a lot to keep into account with those skills and feats, and not all of it is as easily to put in raw math as many people think...for example, pyrokinesis can be useful to cheese enemies in the place you want them, with no cost.

[cypherusuh]

Pyrokinetic requires high TD skills to be nearly useful mid-game. With minimum skills, it practically deal no damage and ignite for few damage. Either scenario requires additional feat (pyromania vs three-pointer) with similar skill investment. Pyrokinetic isn't 100% accurate either, it used grenade calculation more or less. So with low skill, it might be very inaccurate on long range.
MK3 is very common after you finished main quest at certain point, which each grenade merchant usually sells at 5-8 or even more if you have Mercantile skill, even MK4 sometimes showed up.
112 Chemistry is the "hard cap" for grenade Mk5 and you don't really need it, unless you used grenade extensively, as it's just a helpful AoE damage beside your main build.
As for money, you won't be starving unless you planned to make 3 SS plate every hour, buying destroyer boat, and fully refurbished your house.

[chimaera]

A chemist build is likely to have high chemistry to craft pistols anyway. But between traps & grenades, I've found traps more useful in expedition. Either works as support, though.

[cypherusuh]

Ah right, I forgot the actual thread
So grenade gets additional point. Also for my sniper thermo build I tried, grenade seems to work better at 40 eff vs thermo 40 eff, which could reliably goes critical fail
Traps + Quick Tinkering + decent stealth is borderline game breaking. You could cheese anything that isn't immobilized-immune enemies