Recycling/repairing

[Kadze]

Hi! Well it may look bad when the first message is already theme and a suggestion, but i've been playing the game for three months already and tryed to read forum carefully so i'll try.

My point is that getting money in the game still very easy (even with new economic system). Main source of money usually fully repeared guns.

The idea is in recycling items not in scrap from which you can make repair kits, but in details. There should be some connection between parts quality and item state (heavely damaged item gives worse parts).

Next repairing - not kits again! This must be similiar parts! Your favorite  gun in cracks? find good quality parts for it, to repair! If you use bad quality part -item becomes worse. In this part there may be also item upgrade (for example high quality part will make item better).

In the end i suggest not to throw repair kits away, but to make them repair item not fully, but for some %, at which item can be used but not with fully stats (for example -10% of damage, or armor).

I suppose this will make game more realistic and will fix economics.

PS Sorry for my english, don't know it good enough.

[Elhazzared]

Your english is good enough, don't worry about it.

About what you said though. I find out that having money after a while of playing is not a bad thing. Having to struggle to just have a semi decent item and money to buy things which are most needed to even be able to move forward is wrong in my view. What is wrong with the current system is not only being unable to carry whatever drops but actually being able to sell it... Using better parts or worse to repair a weapon will bring 2 problems. First is that you need to have the required part and sometimes you just can't find it anywhere, another being that it would be a way to just make guns better without needing crafting skills just by repairing what breaks on them.

Also if little bits of damage can leave the items doing less damage or less useful is just plain bad, especially considering things are not balanced to compensate for your lack of damage or armor if they are damaged. Also let's not forget the obvious here. Psi would become overpowered or at least the obvious choice because quite frankly, you don't need to repair as far as weapons go, make it so that you are also good at dodging and you don't need armor, you'll kill most stuff without being attacked and if you are with dodge chances you'll probably not take fatal damage. Psi+dodge would make all other builds bad based that they don't care for item degradation at all.

People always want more realistic stuff and forget that a game is ultimatly a game. Sometimes things must make gammy sense rater than realistic sense because otherwise the game is no longer fun to play or some things will just be so plain superior to all others that everyone has to do the same.

[Kadze]

Having lots of money is good but there is nothing to buy. Some consumables as ammo don't need this much money.
Well, when you don't have a part - bad things happen=)
repairing - using the same quality parts - must not need skills, but upgrading (over some point) may need the same skill lvl as needed for crafting such a thing. If there used a part which has quality just a bit better (for examole 5 points) it may need less skill lvl.

balance is a difficult thing - but i don't think this will heavely punch it - degrading alwayse may be changed in some way - this makes some good balance fixer.

As for psy. i don't like it much just cause it's alredy too overpowered. If it is supposed to be a main weapon then ok - but it has no real weak points as weapon. I have an idea of some kind of mind overheat for psy use but it's not fully complete to write. the point in short is to add third scale of overheat of mind ability, which will grow on every use of psy and starting to make damage to you on some lvl(40% some dam for every use, 60 % dam is doubled, 80% chance of getting stunned after every use, 100% - damge is tripled and chance of beeing stunned). I dont have an idea how to decrease it - simple standing and waiting isn't good i think.

[Elhazzared]

Taht is where you are wrong. Even my crossbow girl had always use for the money she had. Eventually I got everything I wanted from the junkyard and lots of money (previous edition since I don't like carry weights and buy limits from merchant so I'm not playing in this one) but the thing is. When I started the game I had no money to get what I wanted. When I got to the junkyard I had no money to get what I wanted despite being able to buy nearly everything in the home base... I'm quite sure this kind of thing will somewhat maintain. When you get to a new town you will either not have enough money to buy anything because weapons/armor is so expensive, or maybe you'll be able to buy one expensive item at best, whatever else is to buy health hypos, bandages, anti toxins, ammo, grenades, psi booster... Really enough to buy a good amount of consumables.

[Kadze]

hmm... i think that the mechanic i suggest may be done bit friendly with economics.  For example by making bit more parts for buying.

May be i'm looking from the point of higher lvl.

[Elhazzared]

You are looking from the point of someone who beat the current content and thinkng. I have way too much money... Now granted I haven't tried for this new economy system but still. I'm sure that when moving to a new town the money you have will never be enough for a full set of equipment. At best you'll get one new item which is why I don't feel that you gain a lot a money. Because what's a lot where you are, is actually little where you are going next.

What you have to look is how much stuff can you buy when you get to the junkyard, and what can you buy when you get to the new town added now (If it's even a town otherwise it can't be taken into consideration).

[Kadze]

May be this will be in high difficulty=)

I still think that the idea is good cause in the economy it can be easely made on the same lvl and make the game bit more interesting.

Else what do you think about psy suggestion?

[Elhazzared]

Quite frankly I could deal with just the weight limit if again, it was just the weight limit, but traders not buying everything is too much of a pain to bear... My problems with the weight limits are 2. First getting combat penalties which most other games don't give you (but so long as you have a very reasonable weight limit without taking penalties that is easly negated) and second, it breaks game immersion because that area you were doing. Well just stop doing and go back to sell the loot cause you are at the limit.

As for the weight limits actually being reasonable or not. I dunno because I haven't played, many people say they are but many people are scrapping items to make repair kits and I don't like scrapping items at all, I want to loot everything and sell everything. If I need repair kits, I'll buy the repair kits myself... Aparently the weight system would have me at 130lbs/kg or whatever weight measure is used and apparently there are many things that go for 20lbs/kg like sledgehammers which drop quite a bit in fact. I can imagine that is gonna make me fatty macfat in less than nothing.

So yeah, give me a decent weight limit where I can at least do a whole quest without having to stop to drop/sell loot as well as no restrictions and everything, otherwise it's gonna start getting meh for me and eventually I'll just give up because the game is just wasting up my time instead of actually making that time I spend fun.

@Kadze - As for your Psi rough sketch, please do not take this as an insult but I find it absolutly atrocious. You think Psi is overpowered and I must admit at a time I also thought the same but you know what I did? I made a character that used guns and grenades and while I had less money, I was steam rolling everything when compared to using Psi... Psi is nice, it has lots of utillity to it's spells, but at the end of the day, utillity matters very little when guns/grenades just kills everything a lot quicker than having to go with lots of CC and kill them slowly one at a time. The only advantage Psi actually has is very early cause the first robots in GMS, they are not going to be too much of a problem but everyone else is not going to have incredibly strong weapons to deal with them or lots of electrical damage anyway... Past that small point Psi is actually not as good as guns + grenades in my personal experience.

[Styg]

Welcome Kadze.

While your suggested repair system does make sense and seems sound mechanically, I'm pretty content with what we have now and probably will not be spending any more development time on it.

What I might do, as you and others suggested before, is add a new blueprint ("salvage"?) that can disassemble an item to retrieve one of its components.

[Kadze]

Welcome Kadze.

While your suggested repair system does make sense and seems sound mechanically, I'm pretty content with what we have now and probably will not be spending any more development time on it.

What I might do, as you and others suggested before, is add a new blueprint ("salvage"?) that can disassemble an item to retrieve one of its components.

Ok. I got it). Thx for answer!

Of course i understand that what i suggest needs really much time and resources, and they are needed much more on the game development.

anyway this salvage idea may be good, but on what will the quality of the component based? may be in item stats + bonus of skill? cause if it will be based only on skill or stats it may be out of balance. If on skill it will give high quality components from scraps and if on item stats - it will make no sense mostly cause if there is already an item with good stats why will you need to disassemble it? (except when it is for component for another item - for example a power core from plasma pistol for clocking device). May be i'm wrong and everything is better then i see.

[Barrelsoup Chef]

Hmm.... Styg, give us a private train car so we can haul all our junk around the metro network!

That would be awesome

What I might do, as you and others suggested before, is add a new blueprint ("salvage"?) that can disassemble an item to retrieve one of its components.

Also an awesome idea

@Kadze - As for your Psi rough sketch, please do not take this as an insult but I find it absolutly atrocious. You think Psi is overpowered and I must admit at a time I also thought the same but you know what I did? I made a character that used guns and grenades and while I had less money, I was steam rolling everything when compared to using Psi... Psi is nice, it has lots of utillity to it's spells, but at the end of the day, utillity matters very little when guns/grenades just kills everything a lot quicker than having to go with lots of CC and kill them slowly one at a time. The only advantage Psi actually has is very early cause the first robots in GMS, they are not going to be too much of a problem but everyone else is not going to have incredibly strong weapons to deal with them or lots of electrical damage anyway... Past that small point Psi is actually not as good as guns + grenades in my personal experience.

Agreed, Psi is very strong, but Thought Control won't work on robots, Fire and Cold also ain't really effective, Telekinetic Stun-Punch only works on organic targets. So it ain't that overpowered if you can't handle all your enemy's with it. However, if you are carrying lots of ammo, and you burst fire a powerful assault rifle... I think I made my point here