Author Topic: Build for a complete noob  (Read 8556 times)

Fins

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Re: Build for a complete noob
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2023, 04:42:37 am »
Having ample accuracy is one of main reasons i proposed Perception 10 and maxing Guns skill at every level. This alone quickly buffs up accuracy to max in Normal mode, where enemies' Evasion is not scaled up nearly as much as it happens in harder difficulties. There's also Night Vision goggles possible to find from loot starting in Depot A, on top of that.

Trying to fight at long range even early in the game - is useful, due to early game enemies having limited (often, none) ranged attacks, and when they do - their range is limited, like dogs' spit and burrowers' ranged attack. Further, early game enemies don't have huge mobility (except burrower spawns, which are very low damage melee attackers), making it possible to effectively kite them. It's a YMMV / playstyle thing i think - some prefer the safety of long range, some prefer higher early game hit chances pistols can indeed provide, especially for lower perception builds.

Low-AP shots for pistols available early game - automatically means low damage, as it's lower caliber non-Hammerer pistols. Low-AP if to compare to assault rifle single shot mode, that is.

Very true about sniper rifles, these need core feats taken to really shine. However, Aimed Shot + Snipe + Shooting Spree are not late game feats - one can very well get all three before even stepping into Depot A. If not, most likely 3rd one will be taken during or very soon after Depot A. Enemies after Depot A become lots more tough, and sniping rifles give a big edge then. Personally, i always felt Depot A and everything before it - is a kind of tutorial part of the game, and the real game - is everything after it, btw. Can't rule out sniper rifles for a Guns build, me thinks. They are good for most of the game.

One other thing which always make me hesitate to recommend pistol builds for anything close to the base stat distribution i suggested above - is low Dex. Any great pistol build must go high Dex, and careful distribution of stats elsewhere. I even dare say, any good pistol build - must be 3 Perception and Versatility, just because it saves so many stat points while going for real high Dex. But that's not a beginner-friendly type of a build...

Last but definitely not least - it's not "either-or" for Pistols and everything else. Like you yourself mentioned, SMGs can complement pistols well - but so can any other gun type. Pistol + sniper rifle is a classic combo, as is pistol and assault rifle. Can also switch setups for specific fights - mix in grenade launcher here and there, for example.
our lifestyles, mores, institutions, patterns of interaction, values, and expectations are shaped by a cultural heritage that was formed in a time when carrying capacity exceeded the human load. (c) William R. Catton, Jr

Der Zooner

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Re: Build for a complete noob
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2023, 03:46:57 pm »
I think your concern about the dex required to use pistols well is unwarranted, 14 dex is perfectly adequate for pistols at endgame, and it boosts a number of useful skills unlike perception, which only boosts guns.
You can also afford not to put too many points into perception due to the lack of skill requirements and evasion negation inherent to pistols.
When I make pistol builds, I find I have plenty of choice for base stat points even after the essential assignments have been made.
It's quite rewarding for new players to be able to take down a tough enemy and immediately be able to use their weapon, which can make up for the lack of power in early game pistols as well.
Weapons all have drawbacks and sniper rifles are no exception, massive overkilling and paucity of attacks per turn being the main offensive points despite their good range.
ARs make a good fallback weapon once the gap is closed, but at that point I'd rather just use an AR instead of making a slopbuild that's spread far too thin taking feats and base stat points for different weapon types, when I could just be focusing on one and enjoying more of the flavour feats.
Depot A is the great filter for a lot of players, and a weapon type that only starts to get good once you should already be through it is not a good choice for it.
Just because you can level up to use decent feats for it, doesn't mean a newbie stumbling into the place will.
Shooting spree is a good feat, but requires heavy investment in specialization to be so, which is unavailable until long after the early game struggle is over whilst impinging on your other specialization options as a generalist guns build.
There's also the topic of crafting, where pistols are extremely easy to craft in comparison to other weapon types in terms of skill requirements, so more powerful pistols can be crafted at a given skill level than their equivalents for other weapon types.
Low AP shots does indeed mean lower damage per shot, but overall damage output can still be high if you take a lot of them.
Pistols allow for a precise application of firepower that is not reliant on good RNG for hits in a cone of fire like for AR bursts and has a far smaller propensity to waste a ton of potential damage overkilling targets like snipers do - nice feeling of control for new people whilst also still putting out a lot of damage onto potentially many different targets.
I've never understood why people think pistols combo well with anything other than SMGs, their AP usage per shot is appalling with no real investment into dex, which you shouldn't do when using an AR or sniper.
A shotgun is a far more synergistic option for a close range finisher, and only requires one feat to be dominating.
Finally, this is a thread about good builds for newbies, so whether or not pistols gel well with the base stat distribution you have suggested is not particularly meaningful as it is not the final word in good stat distributions.
Not to say it is particularly bad, but there is plenty of room for variation around it whilst remaining beginner-friendly.

mir

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Re: Build for a complete noob
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2023, 10:36:34 pm »
You should take this "build" from the -400 karma kind soul I'm sure it works.  :-X

I noticed his karma a while back, frankly I don't get it. I don't hunt down all his posts and but from what I've seen it doesn't seem hyper optimized but I don't really see him posting anything too ridiculously out of line with standard game knowledge. They posted some decent advice on a psychosis psi build I was working on, and I've been cruising my way through Dominating with oddity exp, currently working through expedition taking into account their suggestion. While not following it to a T, it was pretty useful and shifted my approach. This advice seems relatively normal as well. I'm nowhere near a regular poster so maybe there's something I'm missing, it's been bugging me for a while though.

Edit: Shout outs to the people who gave me negative karma for this post lmao I get the picture now.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2023, 09:21:27 pm by mir »