General Build Guide for Heavy Duty DLC (Minor Spoilers)

[ShoggothWhisperer]

Intro

Hey everybody, ShoggothWhisper here. I had the privilege of beta testing this DLC over the last few weeks, and I wanted to share some build advice so people can plan out their builds. I really liked this DLC in general and all of the new content introduced, but it is some of the hardest content in the game by a wide margin, and if you stroll in unprepared you will be in for a wild ride. This guide is intended for Dominating difficulty, but the information inside is relevant for lower difficulties as well. Minor spoilers inside, so consider yourself warned.
 
How much damage should my build deal?

Think about the strongest common enemy in Expedition. Odds are, you think of the Strongman, right? Those guys have 670 hp on dominating and 70% mechanical resistance, so, not accounting for DT, you’ll need to deal ~2333 mechanical damage in order to kill one. Pretty tanky, right? Well, these new enemies are even more durable. The most common grunt has 720 hp, 40% mechanical resistance, a ~350 capacity shield, and usually has a silly little buff that grants a 40% reduction to all damage. He may or may not also have the conditioning feat, but even if he doesn’t you’ll still need to deal ~2350 mechanical damage to kill one. These guys also have 15% heat resistance, 35% energy resistance, and 50% bio resistance from their armor, so keep that in mind. They spawn in packs of 6 guys on Dominating, and if you don’t kill them fast enough additional reinforcements will arrive. The best damage types to use against them are Heat, Cold, Acid, and Electricity, so the best weapons to use against these guys are Hammers, Chem Pistols, Grenade Launchers, LMGs, Miniguns, and TC/MT psionics.

How do I defend against these new enemies?

The new enemies primarily use firearms, energy pistols, and grenades, and offensively could be considered stronger and more interesting versions of the Muties at the Waterway dungeon. The silly little buff that grants 40% damage reduction also grants a 40% increase to all combat skills and a 40% reduction to weapon AP cost, so these goofballs hit harder, better, faster, and stronger than anything else you’ve faced thus far. They are also incredibly fast, having what feels like a base 30MP and the sprint feat, so you can’t really hide behind cover to protect yourself. On top of all that, they have 26 initiative, which is only 3 less than Carnifex. I recommend a Sturdy Kevlar Tac Vest with a super steel sheet, or Sturdy TiChrome/Super Steel metal armor if you can meet the Str requirement. If you don’t have high evasion, I also recommend blast tabis and a blast balaclava since the grenade launcher enemies are extremely dangerous. I don’t recommend going over 50% armor penalty, since there are some TC enemies that can cook you with the classic MB+ Bilocation combo.

Conclusion

This DLC will push you to your absolute limits when it comes to building and crafting. It’s recommended that you start this DLC at level 20, but I actually recommend you wait until level 26 and have all of your best gear crafted/obtained. There's a new encounter that’s harder than the Quad Nagas fight, and a secret version of that fight that’s even harder. I’ve only seen people beat the normal version with Stasis abuse, and as far as I’m aware nobody in the beta test was able to beat the secret version. Best of luck to everyone in the new DLC, I can’t wait to see what builds people cook up with the new content.

[Fins]

Interesting.

What would be your estimate for chances to beat that secret encounter with a level 15 sniper / energy pistol build on Dominating? Note, level 15 only because intentionally not levelling up any higher - gear and supplies all top notch, DC and Expedition fully completed, etc.

[ShoggothWhisperer]

Interesting.

What would be your estimate for chances to beat that secret encounter with a level 15 sniper / energy pistol build on Dominating? Note, level 15 only because intentionally not levelling up any higher - gear and supplies all top notch, DC and Expedition fully completed, etc.

Probably a 0% chance.

[Fins]

I had a gut feeling you'd say 0%, yep.

I love me a challenge. It'd sure take a fairly long while even if possible, ofc. You probably know Tchort was beaten with at least as low as level 6 character on Dominating, which gives some perspective on what can be done given sufficient effort. So, we'll see about that 0%...

[Ploluap]

wow thx, looks terrifying,

Do they also all have thick skull or will i be able to use my favorite cut throat build ?

[Amannamedsquid]

Commandos on the same level as carnifex? That's absolutely nuts. Gonna have so much fun getting turned to swiss cheese, vaporized and/or fragged to oblivion.

[ShoggothWhisperer]

wow thx, looks terrifying,

Do they also all have thick skull or will i be able to use my favorite cut throat build ?

The grunts don’t have thick skull, but the support unit does.

[ShoggothWhisperer]

I had a gut feeling you'd say 0%, yep.

I love me a challenge. It'd sure take a fairly long while even if possible, ofc. You probably know Tchort was beaten with at least as low as level 6 character on Dominating, which gives some perspective on what can be done given sufficient effort. So, we'll see about that 0%...

This isn’t like Tchort, with Tchort you can blow up the tanks with stealth and TNT, then slowly whittle him down and retreat to the safe room when necessary. This is 24 elite enemies who can each fire off a ~500 damage Telekinetic punch, among other abilities. Each one has 860 hp and a ~350 shield, giving an effective hp of ~29040, not accounting for resistances. They come at you from all sides and automatically track your location even when stealthed. The arena itself has a huge portion inaccessible to the player until the encounter starts, so you can’t really preemptively set traps, and the terrain is constantly shifting so it’s difficult to break line of sight. Something like a Master Demo belt Crit grenade launcher build could probably beat it, but I’m sure that the vast majority of builds don’t have a chance.

[Fins]

Tchort is single target 8k health with regen, while these are multiple targets meaning AoE will help much (grenades, electro pistol aimed shot, thermodynamic destabilization, etc). Retreating to safe room in Tchort fight is not an option for a lvl 6 character, 'cause then there won't be a way to get back to Tchort through all the minions, so it must be done in one go. Also, Tchort does increasing "everywhere" damage, which for level 6 character is a serious threat in a prolonged fight. Last but definitely not least, level 6 is massively less capable than level 15 - the latter can get crafting skils all the way to 180sh with high Int, which for said sniper / energy pistol build means having all the highest possible crit multiplier energy pistols, all the highest base damage sniper rifles, and powerful feats to further multiply doable damage. Thus "on paper" it still seems a good argument - i mean hoping to see a level 15 beat this new place knowing a level 6 can do Tchort. How it'll be in practice - again, "we'll see", of course.

[Fins]

...
They come at you from all sides and automatically track your location even when stealthed. The arena itself has a huge portion inaccessible to the player until the encounter starts, so you can’t really preemptively set traps, and the terrain is constantly shifting so it’s difficult to break line of sight. Something like a Master Demo belt Crit grenade launcher build could probably beat it, but I’m sure that the vast majority of builds don’t have a chance.

Ok, quickly went to the place in Normal, lvl 15 character, to see what's what - and instantly found something the above advice fails to account for: the staple Interloper + Ninja Tabis + Rathound Regalia work very well, allowing to remain hidden while moving faster than enemies do. Can get a bit tricky sneaking out of the center at the start in Dominating (it ain't in Normal), but that's what a good cloaking device and consumables will be for.

Then it's just going around the perimeter of the area, taking out enemies one by one, reentering stealth by using vanishing powder grenades or even simply running away (following the outer wall) for a few turns. Looks pretty trivial.

[haze1103]

Any advice for a character build that can use the new weapons well? Mostly wondering about Str requirements, and how much I should train in side weapons. Any need for Guns for feats?

[Amannamedsquid]

Any advice for a character build that can use the new weapons well? Mostly wondering about Str requirements, and how much I should train in side weapons. Any need for Guns for feats?

From what little I've seen so far, strength and perception are essential for getting the most out of LMGs and miniguns. Especially strength for miniguns. And both draw from the brand new "Heavy Guns" skill. Grenade launchers benefit from a high guns skill and only require a moderate strength investment (about the same as assault rifles).

The heavy guns skill and guns skill both seem to piggyback off of each other quite nicely so you don't necessarily have to pick one and disregard the other if you don't want to.

For side weapons; sledgehammers, assault rifles, and/or grenade launchers seem to pair very well with heavy weapons.

As for new feats, only grenade launcher feats require any real investment in the guns skill. Several existing feats such as "Concentrated fire"  have been reworked to accomodate heavy weapons and their skill requirements have been reworked as well.

Personally, I'd go for a tanky "tin can" type build. I can't really get much more specific than that because the character builder (as of writing this) hasn't yet been updated for Heavy Duty. 

[haze1103]

I'm thinking of running 10 str, 3 dex/agi, 6 con, 8 per, 5 will, 5 int. So far for skills I got Heavy Guns, Melee, Hacking, Mechanics, Tailoring, TM, Intimidation. Gonna have to do a dummy playthrough to figure this out I suppose, maybe I'm spreading myself too thin. Or maybe I should pick up Psychokinesis. Maybe drop melee? Who knows

[haze1103]

I could drop melee and go versatility I suppose

[ShoggothWhisperer]

I'm thinking of running 10 str, 3 dex/agi, 6 con, 8 per, 5 will, 5 int. So far for skills I got Heavy Guns, Melee, Hacking, Mechanics, Tailoring, TM, Intimidation. Gonna have to do a dummy playthrough to figure this out I suppose, maybe I'm spreading myself too thin. Or maybe I should pick up Psychokinesis. Maybe drop melee? Who knows

That's a good starting point, I'd first go to 11 str for brute aim then sink the rest of the ability score increases into perception. You could also go 3 con instead of 6 con, on Hard or Dominating difficulty you only lose out on 120 hp at max level, which you can mitigate with a high quality sturdy vest. I'd say gunners high is only worth it if you plan on using a stoicism damage reduction build, otherwise you're normally either above the hp threshold or dead. Crafting requirements can go up to 200+ mechanics for high end miniguns, so I recommend 7 int if you plan on crafting them, and you could sink that final remaining stat point into more per.